PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Dmac72]

For sake of commenting I'll claim to be good for a moment... (ok, so, I can race clean, while racing in a sporting and competitive manner, but I'm never going to top the leader boards).
I've not raced in over a year.
PD got it right once before, but the community went bananas because they could no longer smash and bash, and PD caved to them.
as such;
It is with regret that I feel all those who want a clean/fair racing environment admit this is not the platform to provide it, and move on.
In short, PD wants $$$/participants, not to provide a real racing simulator.
Hope to see some of you on the other side... I know a few in this thread are contemplating the move as well.

Oh, so, why am I still posting here?
Hope.

So where is the clean racing to be found?

Basically, everything is right what you write here. Only in one point do I have to contradict you. I do not think that videos alone are enough to make the players understand. Many will ignore these videos or get something to drink during the time they play. I believe there must be additional missions in which the behavior shown must also be performed. Only then is it proven that the players know the rules and can also apply them. That's why I think there should be compulsory training missions that have to be fulfilled before anyone can play online.

Should the lower DR categories and SR rating not be the place to prove you can race clean before moving up to a higher, faster group? You the learn to race clean and faster again....

 

[cleanLX]

Moved on to where?

So where is the clean racing to be found?

From my research, IRacing.
I've not gotten going with the platform as of yet, but, if you are clean enough to get out of the rookie licensing, apparently things are rather civilized... again, from what I read, and folks I've talked in IRL... I have no experience at this time... Likely August before I'm set up and running.

 

[Dmac72]

From my research, IRacing.
I've not gotten going with the platform as of yet, but, if you are clean enough to get out of the rookie licensing, apparently things are rather civilized... again, from what I read, and folks I've talked in IRL... I have no experience at this time... Likely August before I'm set up and running.

My old laptop’s not up to running Iracing. Think I’m going to take a look at Pcars2 tonight instead.

 

[cleanLX]

Computer, ya, that part sucks... I am fortunate in that my personal laptop is on the killer end of the spectrum, so at least that cost is behind me.

 

[Dmac72]

Computer, ya, that part sucks... I am fortunate in that my personal laptop is on the killer end of the spectrum, so at least that cost is behind me.

Don’t think my boss would appreciate me using my work machine for gaming....

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

From my research, IRacing.
I've not gotten going with the platform as of yet, but, if you are clean enough to get out of the rookie licensing, apparently things are rather civilized... again, from what I read, and folks I've talked in IRL... I have no experience at this time... Likely August before I'm set up and running.

It's definitely cleaner but I've read horror stories about people being entirely incapable of clearing the rookie tier. It's an equal fault penalty system but I believe most of the players drive cleaner simply because of the high cost of entry and their collective aspirations for real world racing.

 

[cleanLX]

Don’t think my boss would appreciate me using my work machine for gaming....

I bet not... having a killer personal machine is nice, but, can be frustrating on my "work" machine struggling with some tasks... so much so, I find myself working on my personal machine some evenings/weekends... just to save time on the overall scheme of things.

 

[Dmac72]

Gave GT Sport one last run. Qualifying lap round Monza. Left rear on the grass exiting second lesmo, nose first into inside barrier. Classic Monza crash. 5 second penalty against my next lap???? Just illogical.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's just that if there are two ways to address something I think I'd always prefer a way that doesn't involve teleportation!

It works though. People don't try to short cut chicanes (too blatantly) anymore since that will get you reset. Ghosting is not a deterrent, it's more a bonus to those driving recklessly. Plus I find cars driving through me much more disruptive. Teleportation sucks, but instant DQ is a bit harsh

 

[PerformLAB1]

Gave GT Sport one last run. Qualifying lap round Monza. Left rear on the grass exiting second lesmo, nose first into inside barrier. Classic Monza crash. 5 second penalty against my next lap???? Just illogical.

It is actually very logical from certain point of views, for instance, that crash, coming out of lesmo, nose first in the wall, 5 second penalty is a small price to pay compared to a damage DNF, or a forced pit stop for repairs...

I understand the whole "the crash is enough penalizing" no need for a penalty to add insult to injury, however, in another sense, a crash of such would cost you a lot more in just about every other racing simulator game.

 

[Dmac72]

Truth be told I don’t care what method is used as long as it works. If GT Sport is to be a game of bumping then fair enough, I’ll move to something else.
Just frustrating after the best part of 20 years to find out that this is the point it has reached.

It is actually very logical from certain point of views, for instance, that crash, coming out of lesmo, nose first in the wall, 5 second penalty is a small price to pay compared to a damage DNF, or a forced pit stop for repairs...

I understand the whole "the crash is enough penalizing" no need for a penalty to add insult to injury, however, in another sense, a crash of such would cost you a lot more in just about every other racing simulator game.

In a qualifying time trial?

 

[ASH32]

The ghosting is silly at this point, it ghosts sometimes because the game decides you are going too slow, like earlier I was real careful into turn 1 (like everyone should be) but two cars behind me went through my ghost (I wasn't off the track or anything) and hit the car right in front on me, luckily for me they all parted all over the track and I managed to get through the middle, I did still get an SR down though.

Cars shouldn't be ghosting because they are not pushing the car in front of them, that is just wrong and causes more problems than it solves.
The only time cars should be ghosted is if the are clearly out of control, like sideways across the track (currently only happens sometimes), if they are being lapped (because idiots were deliberately ruining races before they added this) and whilst and a little after they have served a penalty (because most do not move off the racing line and/or the penalty zone is in the wrong location).

 

[PerformLAB1]

In a qualifying time trial?

Why not, if you take Tokyo for example, there are many corners where using the walls to scrub speed and give you a better turn in, giving you a better lap time, with penalties on, it stops that. There are some tracks (Red Bull Ring for example) where you can use off track sections, get a 0.5 penalty, and still be faster than if you didn't, the penalty is there to help prevent those, plus, if you wrecked your lap on lesmo, it's still faster to hit start/restart than to finish that lap anyways... I'm not saying it is a perfect way to accomplish a goal, but it does accomplish the goal.

 

[Dmac72]

Why not, if you take Tokyo for example, there are many corners where using the walls to scrub speed and give you a better turn in, giving you a better lap time, with penalties on, it stops that. There are some tracks (Red Bull Ring for example) where you can use off track sections, get a 0.5 penalty, and still be faster than if you didn't, the penalty is there to help prevent those, plus, if you wrecked your lap on lesmo, it's still faster to hit start/restart than to finish that lap anyways... I'm not saying it is a perfect way to accomplish a goal, but it does accomplish the goal.

Then penalise the lap it happens on, not the next one. That’s what is illogical in the example I gave.

 

[PerformLAB1]

Then penalise the lap it happens on, not the next one. That’s what is illogical in the example I gave.

It does also invalidate the lap you are on.

 

[Kwame]

It does also invalidate the lap you are on.

It invalidates the lap you are on. However, if the penalty happens too close to the zone, you have to ride the next lap with the penalty, thus ruining your next lap.

With regard to Tokyo, unless things have changed, you can walk ride and get no penalty but you get one if you hit the wall hard! Makes no sense. You lose loads of time smashing into the wall and as a reward, you get a 5 second penalty. However, using the wall fr braking nets you nothing.

 

[Dmac72]

It does also invalidate the lap you are on.

Again that’s pointless when you’re already parked nose first in a barrier your lap is already finished. So the idea of a penalty under those circumstances is nonsensical.

 

[PerformLAB1]

It invalidates the lap you are on. However, if the penalty happens too close to the zone, you have to ride the next lap with the penalty, thus ruining your next lap.

With regard to Tokyo, unless things have changed, you can walk ride and get no penalty but you get one if you hit the wall hard! Makes no sense. You lose loads of time smashing into the wall and as a reward, you get a 5 second penalty. However, using the wall fr braking nets you nothing.

It does stay on if it was encountered too close, or after the penalty zone, but essentially people are complaining about there being a consequence to crashing, and as I said before, start/restart, and it's gone, simple solution, which will make me sound like an a-hole, is to simply not crash, or live with the (quite small) consequence if you do. And don't get me wrong, I hate getting those penalties as well, but in my view, the more times they penalise drivers for mistakes/bad driving/crashing/etc, the more chance they have to actually work on not doing it again (seems to work for me, if I go wide on a corner, and ruin 2 laps because of it, I will be more careful next time around)

Last race on Tokyo seemed to penalize people for rubbing the wall as an extra brake, but I didn't try it myself, maybe they were just hitting it too hard.

 

[ASH32]

Again that’s pointless when you’re already parked nose first in a barrier your lap is already finished. So the idea of a penalty under those circumstances is nonsensical.

I say it doing this in the race is an even bigger problem, someone spins you into the wall and sometimes you will get a wall penalty too. Wall penalties should be removed where you can't gain an advantage hitting that wall, especially during the race, at least in qualifying you can just restart.

 

[PerformLAB1]

I say it doing this in the race is an even bigger problem, someone spins you into the wall and sometimes you will get a wall penalty too. Wall penalties should be removed where you can't gain an advantage hitting that wall, especially during the race, at least in qualifying you can just restart.

What in my opinion is an easy fix for this is: Do not award a wall penalty when someone else encountered a penalty for contact with you. (Driver A hits Driver B, Driver A gets a contact penalty, Driver B hits the wall, do not give wall penalty to driver B)

 

[Dmac72]

What in my opinion is an easy fix for this is: Do not award a wall penalty when someone else encountered a penalty for contact with you. (Driver A hits Driver B, Driver A gets a contact penalty, Driver B hits the wall, do not give wall penalty to driver B)

This would just get played along the lines of current track limits/collision penalties. Driver A and driver B touch, Driver A then brushes a barrier intentionally, driver B gets a penalty.
The game cannot or does not currently apportion blame and can never understand intent.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

What in my opinion is an easy fix for this is: Do not award a wall penalty when someone else encountered a penalty for contact with you. (Driver A hits Driver B, Driver A gets a contact penalty, Driver B hits the wall, do not give wall penalty to driver B)

If only that would work

But it doesn't. Get punted into the wall for braking in time and get a 5 sec wall penalty In some places wall penalties make sense, but why this wall There is absolutely no advantage to be gained from hitting the back wall. I guess the wall was too far back for it to register as contact -> into wall, penalty for the bumper. I think it's a 3 sec window after contact and here I hit the wall about 4 sec after getting bumped.

And yep it's very easy to game, tap a car from behind, tap a wall within 3 sec and the car you bumped gets a penalty. One of those things that needs to be fixed. The whole SR Down for getting bumped from behind when on full throttle needs to go.

 

[Dmac72]

If only that would work

But it doesn't. Get punted into the wall for braking in time and get a 5 sec wall penalty In some places wall penalties make sense, but why this wall There is absolutely no advantage to be gained from hitting the back wall. I guess the wall was too far back for it to register as contact -> into wall, penalty for the bumper. I think it's a 3 sec window after contact and here I hit the wall about 4 sec after getting bumped.

And yep it's very easy to game, tap a car from behind, tap a wall within 3 sec and the car you bumped gets a penalty. One of those things that needs to be fixed. The whole SR Down for getting bumped from behind when on full throttle needs to go.

The crazy thing is that in the cilp you have shown you are doing exactly what the sport mode instructional videos say. You have avoided a collision at the expense of your own race. Although you did seem a little optimistic going into parabolica........

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The crazy thing is that in the cilp you have shown you are doing exactly what the sport mode instructional videos say. You have avoided a collision at the expense of your own race. Although you did seem a little optimistic going into parabolica........

Ha it was none of my work missing the car in front. I got hit on my right rear making my car veer left. The car behind me thought he could start braking after the 100 marker in traffic in slipstream...

Yet true, if you avoid a collision at expense of your own race you usually end up with a shortcut or wall penalty that's more damaging than bumping the car in front which you often get away with without losing any time or time penalty.

The instructional video also says racing is a no contact sport, don't bump people, then the game gives the car receiving the bump SR Down

 

[Dmac72]

Ha it was none of my work missing the car in front. I got hit on my right rear making my car veer left. The car behind me thought he could start braking after the 100 marker in traffic in slipstream...

Yet true, if you avoid a collision at expense of your own race you usually end up with a shortcut or wall penalty that's more damaging than bumping the car in front which you often get away with without losing any time or time penalty.

The instructional video also says racing is a no contact sport, don't bump people, then the game gives the car receiving the bump SR Down

Penalty must have been for getting in their way then

 

[CBH]

Yes it would remove dive bombing and punting, but would fundamentally change what the game is, in

Yes Ghosting will change what the game is in, but atleased it will be fair racing all round.

If there is going to be contact between 2 players and there is no Ghosting, well don't have penalties in a game full stop.
It will be very interesting what PD comes up with for GT7 for penalties, for on track incidents, and I hope that Ghosting will replace the unfairness that is in the game.

 

[Dmac72]

Yes Ghosting will change what the game is in, but atleased it will be fair racing all round.

If there is going to be contact between 2 players and there is no Ghosting, well don't have penalties in a game full stop.
It will be very interesting what PD comes up with for GT7 for penalties, for on track incidents, and I hope that Ghosting will replace the unfairness that is in the game.

Ghosting won't make fair racing because it takes the "racing" element away........
Contact does happen in racing. It sucks for the guy on the receiving end of it, but it still happens.
Take all possible rewards away from people who race in a manner which causes contact and pretty soon the contact will stop.

 

[CBH]

Ghosting won't make fair racing because it takes the "racing" element away........
Contact does happen in racing. It sucks for the guy on the receiving end of it, but it still happens.
Take all possible rewards away from people who race in a manner which causes contact and pretty soon the contact will stop.

Ghosting will make it fair racing because it is a game. I know that contact does happen in racing, but you know this is a game. So PD needs to replace the penalty system where there is contact with Ghosting, because the penalty system will never be fair without Ghosting, unless PD brings it in or something for fair racing.

Taking the rewards away will not stop players from causing contact, dirty players will be still around causing mayhem, without Ghosting in the game.

If PD brings in damage into a Sport Mode like racing for GT7, there will be absolutely mayhem, so I will say no to damage because of other players that want to play dirty.

 

[Dmac72]

Ghosting will make it fair racing because it is a game. I know that contact does happen in racing, but you know this is a game. So PD needs to replace the penalty system where there is contact with Ghosting, because the penalty system will never be fair without Ghosting, unless PD brings it in or something for fair racing.

Taking the rewards away will not stop players from causing contact, dirty players will be still around causing mayhem, without Ghosting in the game.

If PD brings in damage into a Sport Mode like racing for GT7, there will be absolutely mayhem, so I will say no to damage because of other players that want to play dirty.

Ok. I disagree.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Excerpts from 10 / 16 of your latest posts :

To your good question. Nothing can not be done to avoid the victim getting a penalty in a computer game, unless PD brings in Ghosting to stop a player from doing that out on the track. ... This is where Ghosting should help you out in your incident, but you get a 5 second penalty instead which tells me that the penalty system is so stupid and it needs to be cleaned up now.

Ghosting is the solution and there is no other fix to fix the unfair penalties you will get in a race, so ghosting is the only option. ...

The only way is to bring in Ghosting because there is no way in the world, a computer can detect who is at fault between 2 players out on the track.
Ghosting is the only cure to clean up the unfair penalties in Sport Mode Races. There should never be any penalties issued out on the track, because it is a game.

... Hey ... It would be so nice to overtake and defend your position in a game, but if you got a computer that can not tell who is at fault, well Ghosting is the one and only way. ...

Lets say if GT7 had the same panalties as online Sports Mode in GTS, well you are still going to get demolition derby races, unless PD brings in Ghosting when it comes to contact between 2 cars.
There is no other way than Ghosting, players want to go online and feel safe, and not feel threaten out on the track.

... Ghosting is going to stop all this unfairness you get in racing online, because it is a game and not real racing.

You can not have real racing in a computer game, and also because of the penalty system is unfair, so Ghosting is the only answer to all the on track incidents that happen.

... What if I get hit from behind and I get a penalty for just for minding my own business, that is not Fair racing is it. So PD needs to bring in Ghosting to get rid of these unfair penalties players are getting in Sport Mode.
There is no other way than Ghosting because it is a game, but some people on here think that Sport Mode racing is Real, in fact it is not.

Yes Ghosting will change what the game is in, but atleased it will be fair racing all round.
If there is going to be contact between 2 players and there is no Ghosting, well don't have penalties in a game full stop.
It will be very interesting what PD comes up with for GT7 for penalties, for on track incidents, and I hope that Ghosting will replace the unfairness that is in the game.

Ghosting will make it fair racing because it is a game. I know that contact does happen in racing, but you know this is a game. So PD needs to replace the penalty system where there is contact with Ghosting, because the penalty system will never be fair without Ghosting, unless PD brings it in or something for fair racing. ...

I call that a stable opinion !!!