PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[VFOURMAX1]

They are not inconsistent. They are leveled. That helps more one group of users, the amateurs.

GTS is played not only by pros so is reasonable to have aids if you wants and different levels of damage/time in each ranking

That may be fine when the ranks are separated and each racing or interacting within strictly their own level but once you combine the levels together competing in the same event then the penalty/punishment phase must be equal across the board for all that are competing in the event.

IF you are allowing the lower level players to have a different punishment/penalty system that allows them to race in a more reckless manner without consequence that is not allowed to the higher level players then you have defeated the concept of a fair event to compete in..

That in itself brings an imbalance or unfairness to the event that cannot be denied or explained away1

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I don't agree at all.

In my opionion the distribution of dirty people in sr99 is only about 10% and for that they are very easy to detect and to report or ashame after a dirty action.

In SR A and B by my experience, dirty people are around 30% 40%

So in my opinion and experience the system works well enough. I'd like it was harder to reduce that 10% to 2% or the minimum possible. But I'm quiet happy with it and very very few problems, almost 0 dirty incidents in the lasts weeks.

Not in my experience of over 10,000 races. The percentage of intentional dirty behavior is often lower in SR A and SR B than in the max SR.S rooms. I drive from last so have a good view of what's going on during the race.

I've had almost 0 dirty incidents in the last weeks as well and I'm not happy with the way it works. It's supposed to be a racing game testing your racing skills, not a survival sim dodging people using their car as a battering ram.

 

[oneloops]

That may be fine when the ranks are separated and each racing or interacting within strictly their own level but once you combine the levels together competing in the same event then the penalty/punishment phase must be equal across the board for all that are competing in the event.

IF you are allowing the lower level players to have a different punishment/penalty system that allows them to race in a more reckless manner without consequence that is not allowed to the higher level players then you have defeated the concept of a fair event to compete in..

That in itself brings an imbalance or unfairness to the event that cannot be denied or explained away1

Not in my experience of over 10,000 races. The percentage of intentional dirty behavior is often lower in SR A and SR B than in the max SR.S rooms. I drive from last so have a good view of what's going on during the race.

I've had almost 0 dirty incidents in the last weeks as well and I'm not happy with the way it works. It's supposed to be a racing game testing your racing skills, not a survival sim dodging people using their car as a battering ram.

The point I agree with you both is that the system should be harder.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Because time penalty and damage is the same thing. It will change nothing. Damage is time with less performance or time repairing or time not finishing the race = Damage is always time as a consequence in any simulator.

In real world damage is time + money + injuries etc ... never the case in simulators.

So it doesn't matter if it's damage or time.

First off, you are obviously completely missing the point that (and I will bold it for you) THE GAME HAS A DAMAGE FEATURE ERGO IT DOES NOT NEED TO USE PENALTIES AS A PROXY FOR DAMAGE.

Secondly, for your position on this topic to be valid, then BOTH and/or ALL cars involved in an incident should get a penalty, if not the EXACT same penalty, since it would be a proxy to damage and all cars should incur damage.

Your position does not support the continued direction that lesser DR drivers are allowed to be more reckless and incur less penalty that the higher DR drivers.

That flies in the face of real life where better drivers are given MORE leeway with infractions than lesser drivers.


The time penalties are actually a proxy for real world penalties, such as drive through penalties, fines, grid penalties, etc. At no point has PD stated that their intent was to ever use penalty time to proxy for damage.


I would support damage more. I would even support full retirement for massive damage. Here is the damage from GT5...a DECADE ago. If we had that and cars could be utterly destroyed, I would be all for it. Penalties is not this. It's not even close.

 

[oneloops]

First off, you are obviously completely missing the point that (and I will bold it for you) THE GAME HAS A DAMAGE FEATURE ERGO IT DOES NOT NEED TO USE PENALTIES AS A PROXY FOR DAMAGE.

Secondly, for your position on this topic to be valid, then BOTH and/or ALL cars involved in an incident should get a penalty, if not the EXACT same penalty, since it would be a proxy to damage and all cars should incur damage.

Your position does not support the continued direction that lesser DR drivers are allowed to be more reckless and incur less penalty that the higher DR drivers.

That flies in the face of real life where better drivers are given MORE leeway with infractions than lesser drivers.


The time penalties are actually a proxy for real world penalties, such as drive through penalties, fines, grid penalties, etc. At no point has PD stated that their intent was to ever use penalty time to proxy for damage.


I would support damage more. I would even support full retirement for massive damage. Here is the damage from GT5...a DECADE ago. If we had that and cars could be utterly destroyed, I would be all for it. Penalties is not this. It's not even close.

My pleasure is driving and racing with zero contact not destroying my car.

The risk of time penalty after a collision for me is the same risk that damage. It should be harder and DNF after strong collisions. A harder time penalty system.

I understand your point. In the end we want harder consequences after a collision. More risk and more consequences.

 

[D-Max]

First off, you are obviously completely missing the point that (and I will bold it for you) THE GAME HAS A DAMAGE FEATURE ERGO IT DOES NOT NEED TO USE PENALTIES AS A PROXY FOR DAMAGE.

Secondly, for your position on this topic to be valid, then BOTH and/or ALL cars involved in an incident should get a penalty, if not the EXACT same penalty, since it would be a proxy to damage and all cars should incur damage.

Your position does not support the continued direction that lesser DR drivers are allowed to be more reckless and incur less penalty that the higher DR drivers.

That flies in the face of real life where better drivers are given MORE leeway with infractions than lesser drivers.


The time penalties are actually a proxy for real world penalties, such as drive through penalties, fines, grid penalties, etc. At no point has PD stated that their intent was to ever use penalty time to proxy for damage.


I would support damage more. I would even support full retirement for massive damage. Here is the damage from GT5...a DECADE ago. If we had that and cars could be utterly destroyed, I would be all for it. Penalties is not this. It's not even close.

Purely cosmetic

 

[Voodoovaj]

Purely cosmetic

Step 1 - Start a lobby
Step 2 - Set the damage to either light or heavy
Step 3 - Slam into something

You'll notice that the car no longer works normally. The engine power is reduced and your ability to steer is impaired.

This damage feature has been in place for several iterations now. It's the cosmetic part of it that's lacking.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Purely cosmetic

Notice that repair time tab while you're in the pit. That actually works when you set the damage to heavy and pit to fix the car!

Damage will work better than the current system since at least damage is based on force of impact. Now you can get 7 or 10 sec penalty for getting brushed by a car spinning out, sometimes so light the paint job would be fine. While a car punting another car hard off road can get away with nothing or 1 or 2 seconds.

It wouldn't be fair to people getting nudged into a wall or gravel. However that's already the case with dirty tires, excessive tire wear from ending up in the gravel and 5 sec wall penalties.

The experience with full damage is that a lot of people quit. Fine, just use heavy damage in SR.S, quitters lose SR and DR so you don't have to race them again. It's also about time PD starts seeing the difference between quitting and getting disconnected. It's not that hard. If driving input registered right before connection loss, probably unintentional no SR loss. If selecting quit, or suspicious disconnect after control input has stopped, heavy SR loss.



However, here's an example where damage alone is not enough.

The Brazilian next to me pit manoevers the car in front of him into me. I end up with 5 sec penalty, not sure what kind of damage this would be, yet the point is, the Brazilian causing the accident didn't get anything. Blue S, no penalty. This is typical dirty behavior in SR.S, nose sticking, bumper nudging, pushing. All with little effect for the dirty driver, yet big consequences for the car ahead and anyone near by.

Penalties are needed to stop this, but they need to work.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I'm really not liking the changes, now I'm giving people penalties left and right while the actual trouble makers go unpunished

Here I end up giving @Dairyworker an unfair penalty. The car that loses control bumps him and slows. When I pass that car, @Dairyworker gets a penalty. Contact, other car loses position = penalty

Meanwhile, when I get rammed at the hairpin, the attacker goes free

Perhaps since his dive bomb costs him (illegally obtained) positions as well.

Even worse, when I brake a bit too late and see now way out with slipstream, I end up giving @Mc_Yavel a penalty

I rather go to the outside when I'm a bit late on the brakes, yet there was a car there and I wasn't sure if I was going to clear him before running into @Mc_Yavel, hence my last ditch effort to head for the inside wall. Then my instinct is to slow down and give back the position, yet that triggers the penalty for @Mc_Yavel I'm sorry.

One more example of the game making me the executioner for @BenRod

The orange car went wide, @BenRod went through the inside yet the orange car did not concede to losing the corner, contact happened, orange car hit the wall, yet the penalty only triggers when I pass the orange car.

Enough racing for me today. I managed to wrong 3 people on here in my last two races

 

[Famine]

 

[Trone_Colby]

Can’t wait until that one poster post to say that was justified. How you saw the car on your screen and didn’t take any avoiding action.

 

[Famine]

Can’t wait until that one poster post to say that was justified. How you saw the car on your screen and didn’t take any avoiding action.

I did thoroughly deserve a seven-second penalty - with no reason given - after being hit by a car that already had a penalty for exceeding track limits scything across the circuit, perpendicularly, from an off-track position.

 

[fastone371]

Its hard to believe that the game cannot pick up the fact that the car you hit was beyond track limits 3 separate times in that short clip and maybe ghost him and give him a large time penalty, there is nothing good that will come of driving like that.

 

[Hygrade B]

The race I had today @ Fuji made me wish the penalties where more.. I got hit pushed off & no penalties to them.

It need fixing yes but more penalties to the people that have penalties each race.
I feel that what it needs a penalty counter that stick to each person & if in the race you do hit anyone your penalties is double. Yes I do mean instead of 6 for example you get 12.
It only goes down when you have two/three straight races with out hitting anyone.

 

[stpatty]

Can’t wait until that one poster post to say that was justified. How you saw the car on your screen and didn’t take any avoiding action.

I did thoroughly deserve a seven-second penalty - with no reason given - after being hit by a car that already had a penalty for exceeding track limits scything across the circuit, perpendicularly, from an off-track position.

The penalty system, largely, has been centred around one principle. If two cars make contact and one goes off while another stays on, the one that stays on gets a penalty. There are obviously factors which can influence or skew the outcome, and the implementation has often been suspect, but the principle is sound enough.

Why then they've never been able to allow for cars making contact when one has recently - within a second - exceeded track limits, is beyond me. Whether it's ghosting them (it should be), not giving out a penalty, I don't know. But it doesn't seem that complicated.

 

[watto79]

Some Race C fun tonight.

I was particularly grumpy about this one as I lost my A+ rank afterwards. In fairness I DID collide with another car (as did another car also not involved with the spin)



Couldn't fathom this one. I went into the back of someone entering the pits and gave them a 7 second penalty



In the next one I was bundled off the track at the penultimate corner and then spun out on the last corner. Not a penalty to be seen.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I got a 7 second penalty for hitting someone who didn't move off the start... Which I thought was absolutely ridiculous and decided to quit.

 

[Lewmatic]

Jumped back into GT Sport after being away since the end of the 2019 manufacture season. Think I may stay away again until the penalty system gets fixed. Got a 2 second penalty from the other racer barely driving the side of my car....

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@watto79 Contact before somebody pits is interpreted now as ramming someone into the pit. However since both of you pit, that's negated. He might have gotten the penalty since you were with all wheels outside the white line while he still had a wheel on the line. Contact, you were off track, he gets a penalty.

@Lewmatic Nr 14 is brushing your car until about 0:19, then he gets passed by the car behind him at 0:21. There was contact, one car loses position, you get a penalty.

@CLowndes888 Same thing, you hit a car who I assume you then drove around or at least he lost position not moving from the start. Dumb as rocks.

It's even more broken now than before.

 

[Trone_Colby]

The game says I forced him off track...

Granted that I bumped him but nothing major and there was some room and I had the over speed. He hits me off track a bit.

 

[Granadier]

90 pages? Honestly I'm surprised the thread has gone on this long. It's pretty obvious what the rules are and what constitutes a penalty.

This is a penalty:


This is not a penalty:


Case closed! /s

 

[NoStopN]

Its hard to believe that the game cannot pick up the fact that the car you hit was beyond track limits 3 separate times in that short clip and maybe ghost him and give him a large time penalty, there is nothing good that will come of driving like that.

That is exactly the situation that is the definition of needing to ghost. So, not only has PD boned the system up beyond belief, but they've broken the ghosting system in the process. Yep, it's much calmer here in the grandstands watching & not getting involved in this mess.

 

[roqit88]

There’s nothing that could have been done. Everyone, literally everyone agrees.
Fault in the system right there on display, highlighted in Christmas lights.
No one would have not gotten that penalty. Nothing could have been done.

The automated system made a complete mistake.

End.

Edit, I probably come off as a fanboy often, but even I know when to call a spade a spade.

The system does not recognize unavoidable collisions. Got 5 second penalty when a car in front of me spun sideways and then into my path -- in a nanosecond -- and was literally impossible to avoid. The algorithm can't seem to factor in the laws of physics.

 

[Krypton78]

Really shocking videos in this thread. The worst is, you can get penaltys anytime for anything but NOT for the main most important two things: divebombing and raming off from behind. By them you can be sure that if anyone, then the victim gets the penalty because he didnt move out of your way. I experienced it with my testaccount. I was so hard ramed off because of late braking from car behind that I thought my car would splatter into his millions of pixels- and he seriously got zero penalty.

If a company would deliver that kind of failed product to a customer in the industry sector, theyd be so fired and got banned from the factory even.

I'm really curious what the end of the story will be, if they will sort it out before the next game (sometime 3 or 4 years from now I guess)

 

[fastone371]

Really shocking videos in this thread. The worst is, you can get penaltys anytime for anything but NOT for the main most important two things: divebombing and raming off from behind. By them you can be sure that if anyone, then the victim gets the penalty because he didnt move out of your way. I experienced it with my testaccount. I was so hard ramed off because of late braking from car behind that I thought my car would splatter into his millions of pixels- and he seriously got zero penalty.

If a company would deliver that kind of failed product to a customer in the industry sector, theyd be so fired and got banned from the factory even.

I'm really curious what the end of the story will be, if they will sort it out before the next game (sometime 3 or 4 years from now I guess)

Exactly, if I had delivered a product to the customer like Polyphony has I would be fired!!! I dont understand why Polyphony gets a pass on this one, not even a single word explaining why the penalty system is so bad, or like at this point, a complete failure.

 

[killerjimbag]

Exactly, if I had delivered a product to the customer like Polyphony has I would be fired!!! I dont understand why Polyphony gets a pass on this one, not even a single word explaining why the penalty system is so bad, or like at this point, a complete failure.

Hmm,remember everyone saying the same thing about SMS.

 

[breeminator]

The system does not recognize unavoidable collisions. Got 5 second penalty when a car in front of me spun sideways and then into my path -- in a nanosecond -- and was literally impossible to avoid. The algorithm can't seem to factor in the laws of physics.

On the plus side, if that had happened to you in iRacing, you'd have been sat in the pits for 10 minutes while they repaired your car.

 

[NoStopN]

Exactly, if I had delivered a product to the customer like Polyphony has I would be fired!!! I dont understand why Polyphony gets a pass on this one, not even a single word explaining why the penalty system is so bad, or like at this point, a complete failure.

PD wouldn't admit any mistakes like this for fear of losing corporate support. But they could show a bit of urgency in getting this remedied. I couldn't imagine anyone at PD who watches videos labeled "GT Sport penalty fail" as thinking the current system is 100% ethical & correct.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

On the plus side, if that had happened to you in iRacing, you'd have been sat in the pits for 10 minutes while they repaired your car.

In iRacing the perpetrator doesn't go unpunished and you can actually get banned for wrecking others (while you pay to play) In GTS you get handed a blue S or an easy victory in a lower SR room.

I would gladly sit in the pits if it means the race of the dive bomber was over as well and he has a serious chance of getting suspended from sport mode for repeat offenses. As it is now, the report system does absolutely nothing.

The worst thing is that even if you do the right thing after making a mistake (giving back the position) that now triggers a penalty for the victim. The game basically forces you to take advantage! Sure the principle sounds good on paper, replace SR Down for the car ahead at contact with penalizing the car behind for overtaking after hitting the car ahead. Although actually, it's penalizing the car ahead when the car behind loses a position to anyone which has as many or perhaps even more holes than penalizing the car that stays on the road after contact. I guess they added the position loss penalty to catch the cases where you got rammed into a spin yet don't leave the road and no penalty was triggered.

And we're back to having lag interfere with penalty decisions. The snapshot of who is ahead at first contact is not reliable. A dive bomber only needs to be an inch ahead on the ranking board at the moment of impact while coming from 10 car lengths behind and gets a free pass or even gives the victim a penalty. Chicanes are tricky as well with position changes on the ranking board without any actual overtakes taking place. I've gotten the yellow flag penalty in T1 on N24 for simply following a car through T1/T2 since the positions briefly swap in that tight chicane.

I don't get what's so hard about looking at a bit of history, where did the cars come from. The game waits about 3 seconds to check what the outcome is, yet decides to take a snapshot at the exact moment of first contact (which can be different on both clients) to determine who was ahead before contact. Also the 3 second rule should be replaced to include the entire length of the braking zone. You can still punt a car at the start of the braking zone if it takes 3 seconds to eventually slide off the road at the end, no penalty. Or if there's a wall at the end (no more penalties for ramming people into walls) and it takes 3 seconds for the punter to pass, no penalty.

Anyone who has played this game can think these scenarios through. PD seems to only think of the few cases where it could work and launches the changes for us to be stuck with them for a month or more.

 

[barak181]

The worst is, you can get penaltys anytime for anything but NOT for the main most important two things: divebombing and raming off from behind.

This is the thing right here! It seems like literally everyone except these guys are given penalties! How can the system be so complicated and convoluted yet fail at this most fundamental of tasks?