PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Groundfish]

So I was right, you knew the white car had intentions to overtake you there and has no sense that you didn't protect yourself going a little to the left while you see he is overtaking in that manner. You were completely straight on instead of avoiding his collision.

In my opinion, while you are near a suspicious driver you have to protect yourself a little more,
his logical path was from the outside to the inside, like he did.

In real life, if we are racing near a suspicious driver and we want to keep our car intact to the end, we naturally let more margin.

There’s nothing that could have been done. Everyone, literally everyone agrees.
Fault in the system right there on display, highlighted in Christmas lights.
No one would have not gotten that penalty. Nothing could have been done.

The automated system made a complete mistake.

End.

Edit, I probably come off as a fanboy often, but even I know when to call a spade a spade.

 

[oneloops]

There’s nothing that could have been done. Everyone, literally everyone agrees.
Fault in the system right there on display, highlighted in Christmas lights.
No one would have not gotten that penalty. Nothing could have been done.

The automated system made a complete mistake.

End.

Every time there is a collision we can expect a consequence : damage or time penalty (it's the same thing).

So if he suffered a collision he has to expect a penalty. The dirty driver too, but in real racing not always the guilty one has more damage or penalty than the victim. We have to asume that risk.

For example Hamilton vs Albon and Leclerc vs Vettel, all of them at the last race in Interlagos too.
The victims in both incidents was punished more than the guilty ones(or the dirty ones).

If we ask for a justice system instead of a consequence system we lose all the risk factor of racing.
We could drive with no fear near other driver because if he is behind us and we only drive in the right line and brake in the normal points the system will always punish him and we continue with 0 consequences.

No fear, no risk and no consequences = fake racing. That's not real racing.

Avoiding all crashing and all contact + driving into the track limits = zero damage and zero penaltys. That's what happen in real racing and in GTS.

Barak181 should have avoided the contact or if not then asumed the possible consequences of a collision.

 

[Groundfish]

Get real. The driver missing his brake point should have brakes on time, his car was out of control and he is at fault....


At least...




On....








Planet EARTH!

 

[oneloops]

Get real. The driver missing his brake point should have brakes on time, his car was out of control and he is at fault....


At least...




On....








Planet EARTH!

Of course, it's white car's fault, but the green car (in my opinion, as I said) could avoid the collision and he has a part of responsability in that collision going straight on when the Toyota is passing him so close. He should at least turn a little to the left even before the turning point in order to avoid that collision.

In real racing you have to avoid risks when you see (as he has confirmed) a dirty driver before that action.
In real racing if he is crashed he can abandone the race.
But in GTS it seems that many people don't care avoiding collisions... They can have 10 collisions in every short race like it was usual and then if the system punishes the other they say nothing and if they are punised 1 time from 10 they complain...

The goal is to have zero collisions !

The same for so many others complains crashing to a driver who spins in front of them.
Even if it's not your fault, if you crash, then you can expect a penalty or damage (it's the same), don't complain, you crashed !
Avoid the crash or asume the consequences of a crash !

In planet Earth if you crash or get crashed it has consequences.

 

[Groundfish]

I’m done too, now.
I like Earth.

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

So I was right, you knew the white car had intentions to overtake you there and has no sense that you didn't protect yourself going a little to the left while you see he is overtaking in that manner. You were completely straight on instead of avoiding his collision.

In my opinion, while you are near a suspicious driver you have to protect yourself a little more,
his logical path was from the outside to the inside, like he did.

In real life, if we are racing near a suspicious driver and we want to keep our car intact to the end, we naturally let more margin.

How much more could they have gone to the left? Into the goddamn wall?

Stop bloody contradicting yourself. You really need to go back and read what you have written!

 

[oneloops]

How much more could they have gone to the left? Into the goddamn wall?

Stop bloody contradicting yourself. You really need to go back and read what you have written!

His steering red point is in the center until the collision, he does nothing to avoid the collision.

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

Of course, it's white car's fault, but the green car (in my opinion, as I said) could avoid the collision and he has a part of responsability in that collision going straight on when the Toyota is passing him so close. He should at least turn a little to the left even before the turning point in order to avoid that collision.

In real racing you have to avoid risks when you see (as he has confirmed) a dirty driver before that action.
In real racing if he is crashed he can abandone the race.
But in GTS it seems that many people don't care avoiding collisions... They can have 10 collisions in every short race like it was usual and then if the system punishes the other they say nothing and if they are punised 1 time from 10 they complain...

The goal is to have zero collisions !

The same for so many others complains crashing to a driver who spins in front of them.
Even if it's not your fault, if you crash, then you can expect a penalty or damage (it's the same), don't complain, you crashed !
Avoid the crash or asume the consequences of a crash !

In planet Earth if you crash or get crashed it has consequences.

Did you see the OP's latest post when they said the Toyota came from 2 cars back?

How can anyone account for that? Really.....how?

 

[oneloops]

Did you see the OP's latest post when they said the Toyota came from 2 cars back?

How can anyone account for that? Really.....how?

The green car driver accounted that, that's the reason (and he has confirmed it) why he is in the middle line during the whole straight line...
... and when he see the white car approaching in that manner he does nothing to avoid the contact (steering red point in the center until the crash).

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

His steering red point is in the center until the collision, he does nothing to avoid the collision.

But as said previous, by others, he was no where near the turning point. If they turned any earlier they would have hit the wall.

And we now know the Toyota came from TWO car's back.

You are blaming the OP for something they couldn't have avoided unless they were clairvoyant!

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

At the point of feint impact, green car is turning to the left.

See that RED dot? It's hovering just over the number 4:

 

[oneloops]

But as said previous, by others, he was no where near the turning point. If they turned any earlier they would have hit the wall.

And we now know the Toyota came from TWO car's back.

You are blaming the OP for something they couldn't have avoided unless they were clairvoyant!

Yes he was near the turning point, and the most important he saw the white car approaching as he confirmed, so don't go straight on and avoid the crash was the logical thing to do.

He has confirmed that he was at that line because of fear of the white car, so he noticed the white car approaching ! And he knew the dirty intentions of his driver from before.

 

[oneloops]

At the point of feint impact, green car is turning to the left.

See that RED dot? :

View attachment 878581

No, That is just after the crash. See a little before.

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

Yes he was near the turning point, and the most important he saw the white car approaching


Yes he was near the turning point, and the most important he saw the white car approaching as he confirmed, so don't go straight on and avoid the crash was the logical thing to do.

He has confirmed that he was at that line because of fear of the white car, so he noticed the white car approaching ! And he knew the dirty intentions of his driver from before.

Man, I really want you to read my cards, because you know what's gonna happen way ahead of time

 

[oneloops]

Man, I really want you to read my cards, because you know what's gonna happen way ahead of time

Look at the red point just before the crash.

He is not turning at all.

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

No, That is just after the crash. See a little before.

Nah, go back, watch and LISTEN, actually listen. The green car gets hit when he's actually doing 81 mph, and there is a puff of tire smoke from the Toyota trying to scrub speed....so actually a little after that screenshot.

 

[oneloops]

Nah, go back, watch and LISTEN, actually listen. The green car gets hit when he's actually doing 81 mph, and there is a puff of tire smoke from the Toyota trying to scrub speed....so actually a little after that screenshot.

Don't troll.

Look at the red point just before the crash.

He is not turning at all. You can even hear the crash before the red dot moves.

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

Don't troll.

Look at the red point just before the crash.

He is not turning at all. You can even hear the crash before the red dot moves.

Sigh........................................................................................................................and ignored.

You would argue Black is White just to feel better!

 

[oneloops]

At the point of impact....................man, I really can't be arsed. This is so Special Olympics territory!!!!


Sigh........................................................................................................................

Just a little of coordination between sight and hearing.

It helps driving and racing.

Edit: I'm not arguing black is white. You say nosense trying to discredit my position.

 

[Jagman XK8]

Hi all

Does anyone know what the tiers are in the penalty points system.? My scores for close of play are:

Thursday - 5648 / 67 - 100 races DR C / SR A
Friday - 4896 / 82 - 112 races DR C / SR S

I assume the larger figure is the DR?

I suffered badly yesterday before making a recovery and I think my mistake was revisiting Race A. It's clear that people struggle controlling that awful car, particularly the lack of stopping and cornering ability. I was shunted endless times before the loop following the fast straight and it was me that incurred the penalty points - again!!

I then went on to complete two C races. I started around 13th on the grid and finished 8th / 9th and I think this was down to making the RH tyres last the duration without pitting. The latter corners had to be taken with care, but I took the view that I'd lose less time being careful than calling in for new tyres. Would anyone endorse this approach? That tight chicane before the final section was carnage though and I gained p/points on most of the 13 laps

My recovery came with race B, where I've had most success and I'll stick to that.

My user name in GTS is PoddysDad, so please give me a wave when you're passing.

Regards

Nick

 

[Landy1264]

My part of this story. I'm driving the Alfa.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

The latter corners had to be taken with care, but I took the view that I'd lose less time being careful than calling in for new tyres.

A pitstop for tires in race C is between 10 and 12 seconds. So it depends on how much time you loose per lap.

 

[Redneckchef]

My part of this story. I'm driving the Alfa.

After the random crap we have mostly been seeing and getting I am surprised if that wasn't a barrier collision penalty and unrelated to the other crash. I got 7 seconds off a guy tapping my side as I passed, and, as if turns out, nothing for punting a cheater off course. This penalty system is really turning into a lottery at the moment

 

[killerjimbag]

I race in clean leagues and do lobby racing, rarely do I participate fia or daily races because of the penalty system,but, there isn't any reason we shouldn't all want the system to improve. Also, I think this thread is good therapy for folks. Instead of returning a punt we can come here and complain a bit. Then just maybe PD will stumble on to the thread and there is 80+ pages of videos and descriptions they can use.

Really? Your complaining to a bunch of people complaining. The game has been out for 2 years. You can pick it up for $10 in any Walmart bargain bin. How many people punting people around really care about how the person they punted feel? PD screwed up the system. I'm sure they will fix it

 

[Underthewhip]

I just came to think of another issue. In the last vid I showed, I got 3+1 in the first corner. The 1 sec must have been for "gaining an unfair advantage" driving outside the track. As we all know you get penalised for running wide and losing time even if someone else pushed you out. Here's the question though,

When rejoining, should I get control over the car and try to rejoin safely when possible by going outside until safe or should I just rejoin asap even if it will risk crashing others? The current system definitely punishes the former while the latter is a bit of a lottery. Heck you might even give someone innocent a penalty when you rejoin. So that's probably how they want us to do.

 

[Dorofint]

It's not just complaining... The thread follows the evolution of the penalty system. It does get fixed periodically, or rather altered every couple months, and sometimes smaller changes happen more often, as well as changes to ghosting, track limits, short cut and wall penalties.



The history before the thread started is not included and it's mostly looking back with rose tinted glasses that all was better before the strict penalties got introduced in June 2018.

When GTS came out it was mostly hardcore sim racers jumping in day 1 looking for fair racing. The simple penalties worked back then to keep things in check. People mostly behaved and the SR system seemed to work as intended.

In the new year however things progressively started to get worse. GTS quickly dropped in price following initial lackluster sales and the floodgates opened to more inexperienced racers. Matching on SR first turned out not to work that well after all, now inexperienced drivers got matched with more serious racers. Behavior in races continued to deteriorate until PD had to do something to improve the overall online experience. At the start cars getting lapped were still part of the race and trolls were routinely messing with the front of the pack after falling back!

Of course PD made a total knee jerk reaction and people ended up getting 10 sec penalties for incidents you had to step through frame by frame to discover the contact where 4 kph was exchanged between cars... That's where this thread begins and since then many changes have been made for better and worse.

So please stop with the 87 pages of complaining etc. PD won't tell us the new rules, so we have to figure them out ourselves. Understanding why something happens helps to prevent becoming a victim or inadvertently victimizing someone else. That's only possible as long as people keep posting examples of penalties.

The strict penalties did work though. I still qualified back then and my avg DR increased by 30% not getting rammed off the track every race anymore. However then people figured out that lower DR could hit higher DR and the higher DR driver would end up with 10 sec penalty while the lower DR got 5 sec at most or less. Also higher DR had to slow down at 10 sec or the time would start increasing while lower DR could keep messing with people until getting to 20 or 30 sec. Penalty time also bled off during normal racing if you weren't A+. It was messed up, and still is with penalty time depending on DR.

Yes, at the beginning the races were mostly very clean. For me, the decline already started at christmas 2017. Shortly before, there was the PS4 + GTS bundle in stores. Many children and young people got that for Christmas. This has caused the racecraft to decline significantly. After Christmas, GTS became cheaper, which made the situation even worse.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Yes I know, there is always some dirty drivers who act only in few occasions but intentionally dirty.

You can never get 100% of accurancy judging human groups. They can change from a race to another.

You propose a harder system and I agree ... but complaining people will complain more.

I had almost 0 dirty incidents lasts weeks in S99... I think it's as good as always with clean people if you show respect to them and you don't block them.

So you agree the system doesn't work to separate the drivers trying to drive clean from those using dirty tactics or are simply out of control. You contradict your earlier statement:

If GTS penalty system penalizes good drivers, then SR should be full of dirty people, and that's not the case.
This system works because is not about justice but about consequences, and people who take care are in SR instead of people who are looking only for not get penaltys after each crash.

The distribution of dirty drivers is about the same across the SR ranks, sometimes even lower in lower SR. The only thing SR manages to slightly separate are the out of control people from those more able to prevent penalties. Just slightly as BS penalties and the choice of race (A/B or C) or race time (after school hours, early evening is much more risky) have a far bigger effect on SR than driving fair and clean while actually racing at the level of your abilities. Plus SR.S is mostly populated by those that have speed to stay ahead in lower SR or have no speed and stay behind in lower SR, thus both advance to SR.S regardless of having any actual race craft.

I start from the back to avoid bad situations in the first lap, you keep your DR low to avoid risky situations during the race. No trust in the penalty system causes that behavior. If the rules would be clear and applied fairly across the board (same for all SR/DR) we wouldn't need to drive against the penalty system and can start to race against the rest again instead.

Really the only reason I generally stick to SR.S is, that it's indeed not difficult to prevent penalties while starting from the back, and matchmaking is such in SR.S that it's also the least risky place to race in with many easy overtakes due to the general A+ to D matching. The front usually sends some innocents to the back who I end up having great races with after practicing a bunch of easy passes and avoiding accidents in the first lap. However sometimes I can't stand the gaming tactics in SR.S anymore and I'll gladly put some drivers in their place to then have some actual clean contact free battles in lower SR rooms.

My part of this story. I'm driving the Alfa.

Seems to work as 'intended'. Contact, yet both cars go off, no decision. However you gain the position from him right after contact, point against you. After 3 sec you're still ahead, you get the penalty.

Hi all

Does anyone know what the tiers are in the penalty points system.? My scores for close of play are:

Thursday - 5648 / 67 - 100 races DR C / SR A
Friday - 4896 / 82 - 112 races DR C / SR S

I assume the larger figure is the DR?

Yes, larger figure is DR.

DR.E has no point value, first five races you are DR.E and gain no points, then you start at 2K DR for your 6th race.
DR.D 1-4000
DR.C 4000-10000
DR.B 10000-30000
DR.A 30000-50000
DR.A+ 50000-75000

SR.E 1-9
SR.D 10-19
SR.C 20-39
SR.B 40-64
SR.A 65-79
SR.S 80-99

Matchmaking however works in steps of 10 SR. Matching first starts with all entries in 90 to 99 SR, then adds 80-89 SR to fill rooms. So advancing to the next 10 point range can greatly affect who you end up racing. The 80-89 SR bracket is usually completely different from the 90-99 SR bracket. The 80-89 bracket is usually the sweet spot for easy victories since the left overs (lowest DR) of the 90-99 range end up there getting matched with the highest DR in the 80-89 range. That's how rooms with A+/S (80-89) in front with rest D/S (90-99) happen.

DR resets happen when SR drops too low
SR below 5, DR resets down to 3K
SR below 15, DR resets down to 15K
SR below 30, DR resets down to 40K (not sure about that last one)

Your DR rank will not increase if your SR rank is lower than the next DR rank. However you still gain DR. When you do advance in DR rank you get an extra 1500 DR for free. (And lose that again when you drop a DR rank)

 

[oneloops]

So you agree the system doesn't work to separate the drivers trying to drive clean from those using dirty tactics or are simply out of control. You contradict your earlier statement:

If GTS penalty system penalizes good drivers, then SR should be full of dirty people, and that's not the case.
This system works because is not about justice but about consequences, and people who take care are in SR instead of people who are looking only for not get penaltys after each crash.

The distribution of dirty drivers is about the same across the SR ranks, sometimes even lower in lower SR. The only thing SR manages to slightly separate are the out of control people from those more able to prevent penalties. Just slightly as BS penalties and the choice of race (A/B or C) or race time (after school hours, early evening is much more risky) have a far bigger effect on SR than driving fair and clean while actually racing at the level of your abilities. Plus SR.S is mostly populated by those that have speed to stay ahead in lower SR or have no speed and stay behind in lower SR, thus both advance to SR.S regardless of having any actual race craft.

I start from the back to avoid bad situations in the first lap, you keep your DR low to avoid risky situations during the race. No trust in the penalty system causes that behavior. If the rules would be clear and applied fairly across the board (same for all SR/DR) we wouldn't need to drive against the penalty system and can start to race against the rest again instead.

Really the only reason I generally stick to SR.S is, that it's indeed not difficult to prevent penalties while starting from the back, and matchmaking is such in SR.S that it's also the least risky place to race in with many easy overtakes due to the general A+ to D matching. The front usually sends some innocents to the back who I end up having great races with after practicing a bunch of easy passes and avoiding accidents in the first lap. However sometimes I can't stand the gaming tactics in SR.S anymore and I'll gladly put some drivers in their place to then have some actual clean contact free battles in lower SR rooms.




Seems to work as 'intended'. Contact, yet both cars go off, no decision. However you gain the position from him right after contact, point against you. After 3 sec you're still ahead, you get the penalty.




Yes, larger figure is DR.

DR.E has no point value, first five races you are DR.E and gain no points, then you start at 2K DR for your 6th race.
DR.D 1-4000
DR.C 4000-10000
DR.B 10000-30000
DR.A 30000-50000
DR.A+ 50000-75000

SR.E 1-9
SR.D 10-19
SR.C 20-39
SR.B 40-64
SR.A 65-79
SR.S 80-99

Matchmaking however works in steps of 10 SR. Matching first starts with all entries in 90 to 99 SR, then adds 80-89 SR to fill rooms. So advancing to the next 10 point range can greatly affect who you end up racing. The 80-89 SR bracket is usually completely different from the 90-99 SR bracket. The 80-89 bracket is usually the sweet spot for easy victories since the left overs (lowest DR) of the 90-99 range end up there getting matched with the highest DR in the 80-89 range. That's how rooms with A+/S (80-89) in front with rest D/S (90-99) happen.

DR resets happen when SR drops too low
SR below 5, DR resets down to 3K
SR below 15, DR resets down to 15K
SR below 30, DR resets down to 40K (not sure about that last one)

Your DR rank will not increase if your SR rank is lower than the next DR rank. However you still gain DR. When you do advance in DR rank you get an extra 1500 DR for free. (And lose that again when you drop a DR rank)

I don't agree at all.

In my opionion the distribution of dirty people in sr99 is only about 10% and for that they are very easy to detect and to report or ashame after a dirty action.

In SR A and B by my experience, dirty people are around 30% 40%

So in my opinion and experience the system works well enough. I'd like it was harder to reduce that 10% to 2% or the minimum possible. But I'm quiet happy with it and very very few problems, almost 0 dirty incidents in the lasts weeks.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Don't troll.

Look at the red point just before the crash.

He is not turning at all. You can even hear the crash before the red dot moves.

Ok, so let me get this straight, are you actually arguing that this penalty (for something obviously not the Audi's fault) is the same as incurring damage?

Why not just turn on damage then? If a damage proxy is the intent, what in the world is the rationale behind this? Your enlargement is that someone at PD said 'no, don't run on damage for daily races. Instead, let's devote resources to a penalty system and iterate on it for two year and waste a ton of development resources on it. I don't care if we have a damage system already made"


Maybe you forget that the system actually did better job of assigning blame when the game was released. When the system first came out, the Audi likely would have gotten nothing and the Supra would have gotten 10 seconds for a rear end collision.

Also, how do you reconcile the concept that penalties are a proxy for collision when the penalties are inconsistent across DR levels? The system hold higher DR players to a higher standard for avoiding collisions. In the real world, accidents treat the good and bad drivers the same.

 

[oneloops]

Ok, so let me get this straight, are you actually arguing that this penalty (for something obviously not the Audi's fault) is the same as incurring damage?

Why not just turn on damage then? If a damage proxy is the intent, what in the world is the rationale behind this? Your enlargement is that someone at PD said 'no, don't run on damage for daily races. Instead, let's devote resources to a penalty system and iterate on it for two year and waste a ton of development resources on it. I don't care if we have a damage system already made"


Maybe you forget that the system actually did better job of assigning blame when the game was released. When the system first came out, the Audi likely would have gotten nothing and the Supra would have gotten 10 seconds for a rear end collision.

Also, how do you reconcile the concept that penalties are a proxy for collision when the penalties are inconsistent across DR levels? The system hold higher DR players to a higher standard for avoiding collisions. In the real world, accidents treat the good and bad drivers the same.

Because time penalty and damage is the same thing. It will change nothing. Damage is time with less performance or time repairing or time not finishing the race = Damage is always time as a consequence in any simulator.

In real world damage is time + money + injuries etc ... never the case in simulators.

So it doesn't matter if it's damage or time.

They are not inconsistent. They are leveled. That helps more one group of users, the amateurs.

GTS is played not only by pros so is reasonable to have aids if you wants and different levels of damage/time in each ranking.

The system motivates zero contact and improving skills for zero contact even if it's not our fault.

In 2017 the system could motivate not to avoid contact when it's not our fault. I don't prefer that.

In real racing avoiding all contact is a main goal even if it's not our fault, in order to keep us safe and our car can continue and finish the race.