Physics thread

  • Thread starter LVracerGT
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Can I ask about wet weather physics?... I'm sure I read something here a few weeks back but I can't for the life of me find that again.



This vid with the F-B car at Sakitto... it just looks like the car has too much grip for that amount of water on track. Is this something being tweaked for release? A formula car especially should be a complete handful in weather like this... and it doesn't look that way to me on this vid.
 
The driver either has a really sensitive right foot, or he has some of the driving aids activated. There still is tweaking to the wet road grip levels after the latest feedback from "The Stig" Ben Collins. I for my part can really feel the difference in grip level and the lap times really are much higher compared to dry conditions.
 
GTAndy36
Can I ask about wet weather physics?... I'm sure I read something here a few weeks back but I can't for the life of me find that again.



This vid with the F-B car at Sakitto... it just looks like the car has too much grip for that amount of water on track. Is this something being tweaked for release? A formula car especially should be a complete handful in weather like this... and it doesn't look that way to me on this vid.
Click to expand...

As many times as its come up I'm sure SMS is aware. If there is one thing for sure, if the fans question it, and they feel it's a legitimate gripe, they address it. Isn't that right WMD members? I myself question the grip in wet conditions. But since I have never driven a formula B car in the rain, just my ride, who knows. If the wet physics are off, I am confident it will be addressed. No worries. That's my 2 cents worth! :lol:
 
blowfishrulez
The driver either has a really sensitive right foot, or he has some of the driving aids activated. There still is tweaking to the wet road grip levels after the latest feedback from "The Stig" Ben Collins. I for my part can really feel the difference in grip level and the lap times really are much higher compared to dry conditions.
Click to expand...

Are you able to put together a vid for this? If not... is there a recent build vid showing such a comparison.

It's annoying when people don't put in what settings they are using in the description. All well and good saying what wheel and what PC specs you have, but at this stage people aren't asking those questions.
 
Goruk
Question, on the wet, it´s faster to use the race line with rubber or outside of her?
Click to expand...

Nice suggestive question :-) Rubber turns to slippery when wet, reading the latest comments of Ben Collins, i think PCars has got it right :-)
 
GTAndy36
Can I ask about wet weather physics?... I'm sure I read something here a few weeks back but I can't for the life of me find that again.



This vid with the F-B car at Sakitto... it just looks like the car has too much grip for that amount of water on track. Is this something being tweaked for release? A formula car especially should be a complete handful in weather like this... and it doesn't look that way to me on this vid.
Click to expand...


Real single-seater (Dallara GP2) on wet

 
I have another question for the guys who have been playing the game thus far. I am not sure if this really applies to physics or not but here goes anyway.

In GT6 [also 4 and 5] there is a very annoying habit of the wheel oscillating on straight road. This ranges from pretty much non existent to horribly bad depending on the car in use and the amount of FFB the wheel has and game is set to. This has been an issue for me all along on GT games making it very difficult to enjoy driving some of the faster cars such as LMP, FGT, and especially the X1. The issue seems to be worse now than it was early on in GT6.

So the question is does PCars also have this annoying oscillation and if so to what extent compared to GT6?
I am hoping not as some cars on GT6 are no fun at all because of this.

On another note does anyone know how to eliminate this on GT6. I use a CSR Elite wheel.
 
HBR-Roadhog
I have another question for the guys who have been playing the game thus far. I am not sure if this really applies to physics or not but here goes anyway.

In GT6 [also 4 and 5] there is a very annoying habit of the wheel oscillating on straight road. This ranges from pretty much non existent to horribly bad depending on the car in use and the amount of FFB the wheel has and game is set to. This has been an issue for me all along on GT games making it very difficult to enjoy driving some of the faster cars such as LMP, FGT, and especially the X1. The issue seems to be worse now than it was early on in GT6.

So the question is does PCars also have this annoying oscillation and if so to what extent compared to GT6?
I am hoping not as some cars on GT6 are no fun at all because of this.

On another note does anyone know how to eliminate this on GT6. I use a CSR Elite wheel.
Click to expand...

Project CARS will make GT's FFB feel like a toy FFB system.

Project CARS does not oscillate while driving at all. Although there still are some cars that seem to oscillate at standstill, which is easily dealt with by stopping the wheel from shaking. As soon as you start to roll with the car the oscillation is gone.
So since it is easily dealt with, it isn't much of an issue. Besides I rather have it at standstill than while driving like in GT. When standing still it doesn't impact car balance unlike when driving.

It is something that the team tries to avoid happening though, and has been dialed out for the greater part of the cars. It's just on incident that it still happens, like with the Lotus 72D that I drove yesterday.



Eliminating oscillation in GT6 with my CSWv2 was only possible when using G27 FFB power levels. Plus you shouldn't use DRI or use it to increase drag, plus add DEA 10.
A real solution is to kick Kaz's hiney on the issue. :P
 
Thanks, that is good news :)

Currently I have my wheel set to FFB 100, DRI off, DEA 0

I forget what setting I have in game something like 5 and 7 or is it 7 and 5, something like that. I tried power steering in the past and that seemed to help but am not using it now. On GT5 I used DEA settings when driving some cars, some at 10 the X1 at around 30 or so which did help but the problem has never really went away.


What did you mean by g27 FFB power levels?
 
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HBR-Roadhog
Thanks, that is good news :)

Currently I have my wheel set to FFB 100, DRI off, DEA 0

I forget what setting I have in game something like 5 and 7 or is it 7 and 5, something like that. I tried power steering in the past and that seemed to help but am not using it now. On GT5 I used DEA settings when driving some cars, some at 10 the X1 at around 30 or so which did help but the problem has never really went away.


What did you mean by g27 FFB power levels?
Click to expand...

Turn the FFB down so that your wheel is outputting as much power as a G27. That is what I meant.
 
will the wheels also vibrate as well as give FFB? i'm asking because i was playing Driveclub the other day (on T300) and turned the vibration off and didn't like it. i felt the lack vibration under braking kind of pulled me out of the experience a little. do i have nothing to worry about?
 
HBR-Roadhog
I have another question for the guys who have been playing the game thus far. I am not sure if this really applies to physics or not but here goes anyway.

In GT6 [also 4 and 5] there is a very annoying habit of the wheel oscillating on straight road. This ranges from pretty much non existent to horribly bad depending on the car in use and the amount of FFB the wheel has and game is set to. This has been an issue for me all along on GT games making it very difficult to enjoy driving some of the faster cars such as LMP, FGT, and especially the X1. The issue seems to be worse now than it was early on in GT6.

So the question is does PCars also have this annoying oscillation and if so to what extent compared to GT6?
I am hoping not as some cars on GT6 are no fun at all because of this.

On another note does anyone know how to eliminate this on GT6. I use a CSR Elite wheel.
Click to expand...
Turn your feedback sensitivity number down in GT6 to help with the the straight line issue.
 
bleeder
will the wheels also vibrate as well as give FFB? i'm asking because i was playing Driveclub the other day (on T300) and turned the vibration off and didn't like it. i felt the lack vibration under braking kind of pulled me out of the experience a little. do i have nothing to worry about?
Click to expand...

Don't worry. Everything happening on the rubber side will be communicated through FFB.

Braking tightend up the wheel, locking up causes vibration and lightens up the wheel again (since you are sliding).
Cars that break out into an oversteer situation (drift) will be translated as well. This without a canned weight transfer effect or any seat of pants liking effects, but purely by how the self-aligning torque makes sure the front wheels stay pointed in the driving direction. In other words, if the oversteer causes the rear to rotate around the front wheels... the steeringwheel will rotate with it.

In short, everything is communicated how it should be driven by the physics and simulating how the steering rack and suspension geometry work. All without any need for fake/canned effects to put emphasis on something, as it is not needed in Project CARS. It is still available in the FFB settings for those who desire it.
 
More and more I have a feeling that SMS is being pushed so hard by the community for the FFB and physics perfection, that no other dev will match it.

I don't think there has ever been so much pressure put on a dev on these areas.
So what happens if the FFB turns out so good, it renders all other games useless?
 
LogiForce
Don't worry. Everything happening on the rubber side will be communicated through FFB.

Braking tightend up the wheel, locking up causes vibration and lightens up the wheel again (since you are sliding).
Cars that break out into an oversteer situation (drift) will be translated as well. This without a canned weight transfer effect or any seat of pants liking effects, but purely by how the self-aligning torque makes sure the front wheels stay pointed in the driving direction. In other words, if the oversteer causes the rear to rotate around the front wheels... the steeringwheel will rotate with it.

In short, everything is communicated how it should be driven by the physics and simulating how the steering rack and suspension geometry work. All without any need for fake/canned effects to put emphasis on something, as it is not needed in Project CARS. It is still available in the FFB settings for those who desire it.
Click to expand...
LogiForce
Don't worry. Everything happening on the rubber side will be communicated through FFB.

Braking tightend up the wheel, locking up causes vibration and lightens up the wheel again (since you are sliding).
Cars that break out into an oversteer situation (drift) will be translated as well. This without a canned weight transfer effect or any seat of pants liking effects, but purely by how the self-aligning torque makes sure the front wheels stay pointed in the driving direction. In other words, if the oversteer causes the rear to rotate around the front wheels... the steeringwheel will rotate with it.

In short, everything is communicated how it should be driven by the physics and simulating how the steering rack and suspension geometry work. All without any need for fake/canned effects to put emphasis on something, as it is not needed in Project CARS. It is still available in the FFB settings for those who desire it.
Click to expand...
well that all sounds most excellent! thanks
 
InSight
More and more I have a feeling that SMS is being pushed so hard by the community for the FFB and physics perfection, that no other dev will match it.

I don't think there has ever been so much pressure put on a dev on these areas.
So what happens if the FFB turns out so good, it renders all other games useless?
Click to expand...
Won't happen, other games have good FFB and it's a highly personal thing as well. Even though we're in the sim world, not everyone really wants true simulation or more importantly, can be objective about it. As an outsider looking into the sim world the last few months, I can see the lines are clearly being drawn up in defense of everyone's personal favourite sim, and the battle of the trolls will be fully engaged once this game is released. It will be epic:eek::eek:
 
Johnnypenso
Won't happen, other games have good FFB and it's a highly personal thing as well. Even though we're in the sim world, not everyone really wants true simulation or more importantly, can be objective about it. As an outsider looking into the sim world the last few months, I can see the lines are clearly being drawn up in defense of everyone's personal favourite sim, and the battle of the trolls will be fully engaged once this game is released. It will be epic:eek::eek:
Click to expand...

But, will it change ffb for console games? Lot less sims there and this could lead the way for how its done.
 
BarryB
But, will it change ffb for console games? Lot less sims there and this could lead the way for how its done.
Click to expand...
I can't predict the future, but I'm going to say no and I believe the answer is quite simply bang for the buck. PCars has to appeal to sim racers on PC as well as console, and I'm going to guess PC users are mostly wheel users, whereas on console, it'll overwhelmingly be DS4 or other controller users. We have access to GT5 TT database and in spite of 900 degree FFB wheels being available for around $100 and every single wheel on the market being compatible, you still only had about 20% penetration in TT's and I suspect far, far less than that in the general population. That figure is going to drop through the floor on the PS4/Xbone because of the TM exclusivity arrangement and the price of a decent 900 degree wheel starting around $400, the price of the console.

FFB will likely improve on GT7 and Forza 6 of course, but if SMS pulls off what it sounds like they are trying to pull off with the FFB in Project Cars, GT and Forza will have a very long way to go to even come close.
 
Johnnypenso
Won't happen, other games have good FFB and it's a highly personal thing as well. Even though we're in the sim world, not everyone really wants true simulation or more importantly, can be objective about it. As an outsider looking into the sim world the last few months, I can see the lines are clearly being drawn up in defense of everyone's personal favourite sim, and the battle of the trolls will be fully engaged once this game is released. It will be epic:eek::eek:
Click to expand...
I've drawn my line, my personal favorite is Game Stock Car, Raceroom Experience, Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, and rFactor2 :sly: I like them all, why does one have to obsolete the next!

BTW, pCARS is getting VERY good, almost daily improvements, but it seems many expect perfection or are from the glass half empty crowd.
 
Johnnypenso
I can't predict the future, but I'm going to say no and I believe the answer is quite simply bang for the buck. PCars has to appeal to sim racers on PC as well as console, and I'm going to guess PC users are mostly wheel users, whereas on console, it'll overwhelmingly be DS4 or other controller users. We have access to GT5 TT database and in spite of 900 degree FFB wheels being available for around $100 and every single wheel on the market being compatible, you still only had about 20% penetration in TT's and I suspect far, far less than that in the general population. That figure is going to drop through the floor on the PS4/Xbone because of the TM exclusivity arrangement and the price of a decent 900 degree wheel starting around $400, the price of the console.

FFB will likely improve on GT7 and Forza 6 of course, but if SMS pulls off what it sounds like they are trying to pull off with the FFB in Project Cars, GT and Forza will have a very long way to go to even come close.
Click to expand...


I won't say this confidentally about the other stuff of Project CARS, but FFB system is the only thing I am 200% sure of that it's best in class. Better than... iRacing, Game Stock Car Extreme, RaceRoom Experience, Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2 or any others.

GT6 FFB is so toy like compared to pCARS in the same way that you compare a Thrustmaster T80 (with Bungee Cord Tech (tm)) to a SimXperience AccuForce. It's that different of an experience in my opinion.

So yeah, for sure they will need to work hard and even more sure... you guys will have something to look forward to when it comes to FFB in Project CARS.



That said, to bring down the hype train a bit. As stated over and over, Project CARS is not the faultless holy grail of sim racing... yet it will definitely shake the sim racing world upon release. Which makes me curious to see what the other game developers will do to try and catch up. :)
 
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LogiForce
I won't say this confidentally about the other stuff of Project CARS, but FFB system is the only thing I am 200% sure of that it's best in class. Better than... iRacing, Game Stock Car Extreme, RaceRoom Experience, Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2 or any others.

GT6 FFB is so toy like that compared to pCARS in the same way that you compare a Thrustmaster T80 (with Bungee Cord Tech (tm)) to a SimXperience AccuForce. It's that different of an experience in my opinion.

So yeah, for sure they will need to work hard and even more sure... you guys have something to look forward to when it comes to FFB in Project CARS.

That said, to bring down the hype train a bit. As stated over and over, Project CARS is not the faultless holy grail of sim racing... yet it will definitely shake the sim racing world upon release. Which makes me curious to see what the other game developers will do to try and catch up. :)
Click to expand...

Given that I had my first experience with RaceRoom today with the T300RS... if what your saying turns out to be correct... then this is going to be something truly special. RaceRoom felt fantastic, especially with the SLS GT3 and the BMW M3 E30 that I drove. If this also translates 1:1 with the PS4 version... oh man I'm getting goosebumps.

I really really hope you're not hyping this up for hyping sakes. I'm sure you're not... it just sounds a little to unbelievable right now.
 
GTAndy36
Given that I had my first experience with RaceRoom today with the T300RS... if what your saying turns out to be correct... then this is going to be something truly special. RaceRoom felt fantastic, especially with the SLS GT3 and the BMW M3 E30 that I drove. If this also translates 1:1 with the PS4 version... oh man I'm getting goosebumps.

I really really hope you're not hyping this up for hyping sakes. I'm sure you're not... it just sounds a little to unbelievable right now.
Click to expand...
IMO, and this is a good thing, non-race cars feel even better on a wheel for many reasons but in large part because they are less predictable and usually much more is happening in terms of FFB, especially on older rubber. If you liked the racecars in R3E, you'll love street cars and race cars in PCars even more:dopey:
 
From where I stand, I can only second the opinion on FFB. I've tried R3E just the other day for the first time and it felt kind of sad. If I never played pCARS I'd probably think it's bee's knees, but it just doesn't cut it for me. And I only have an old and cheap DFGT. Oh how I wish I could try a better wheel, but I can't justify buying one since I don't have as much time for the racing anymore. Again, pCARS is not perfect in many ways, but it does have a kick ass FFB with a very good physics engine behind it.
 

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