PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4

[mcfizzle]

Yeah I understand that. I was just curious was all

 

[Musolini187]

Apologies for not being clearer. Im speaking of video playback on the XMB. 4K gaming will be to PS5 what 1080 was to PS3 IMO.

what about quantum computers? i heard that they should be finished in less than 10 years, probably same time ps5 comes out or even earlier (if ps5 comes). if a quantum computer comes out in the near future, wouldnt 4k gaming be like nothing for a computer like that? from what i gathered seen in docus was that it would mean that the current strongest computers wouldnt even be a spec of dust compared these future computers. technology is still evolving, 4k might seem like black and white tv's in 10 years time.

 

[Samus]

One thing I do hope they do with the PS4 is a new controller. The current design is basically the same as the first one that came with the PS1 in 1994, it's not very ergonomic and it's too small for most adult hands. They also insist on placing the D-Pad in the easiest spot for your thumb rather than move the analogue stick there.

 

[Earth]

what about quantum computers? i heard that they should be finished in less than 10 years, probably same time ps5 comes out or even earlier (if ps5 comes). if a quantum computer comes out in the near future, wouldnt 4k gaming be like nothing for a computer like that? from what i gathered seen in docus was that it would mean that the current strongest computers wouldnt even be a spec of dust compared these future computers. technology is still evolving, 4k might seem like black and white tv's in 10 years time.

I looked up quantum computers and Im not sure that technology will be ready in 10 years. Theres just many reasons why 4K is still a tech reserved for the far future.

1080p still hasn't had its time in the sun. So far only blu-ray movies are really the only solid form of 1080p media. Very few pay per view broadcasts are 1080P, most if not all other broadcasts are 1080i, or less. Once 1080 is standard, and all the games are made in the resolution and 1080 bluray discs surprass DVD sales then I'd say its time to look to the next generation.

Theres lots of reasons to expect the transition to 4K to be slower then the transition to 1080. First off alot of people may not care about clairty as much as they use to. Things like youtube and streaming have numbed people's senses to poor resolutions, sound, and bit rates. Its going to be even more difficult to see the difference from 1080 to 4K then it was from 480p to 1080. Without a TV over 55" its going to be hard to see a difference from normal viewing distances. Thats going to kill it for most casuals.

They have to be really careful. If they push tech like 4K too hard and too fast and could end up being a niche product. They really need to focus on 1080 for a good while longer.

If you look at each console generation you'll see a marginal jump in resolution

PS2 - mostly 480p/.3 MP games, a handful of 1080i games
PS3 - mostly 720p/.9 MP games, a handful of 1080p games
PS4 - likely mostly 1080p/2 MP games, likely a handful of 4K games

4K is 8 Megapixels. That will signify the largest jump in screen resolution whenever it does happen. 4K is also 8.5x the screensize of 720p, so its hard for me to see hardware make that kind of jump this next gen. I'm quite sure 1080p will be to this generation what 480p was to the PS2, an almost exclusive resolution with few games displaying less and even fewer displaying more. Add onto that the burden of 3D, which makes 4K even further out of the question.

The jump in pixel count has only been around 2x each generation. 4K is by far the largest jump in screen resolution there has been. Another reason to believe its adoption should be slow.

One thing I do hope they do with the PS4 is a new controller. The current design is basically the same as the first one that came with the PS1 in 1994, it's not very ergonomic and it's too small for most adult hands. They also insist on placing the D-Pad in the easiest spot for your thumb rather than move the analogue stick there.

A good spot for the analogue stick would be right between where the D-Pad and analogue stick currently are. Just for the L stick of course, I want the buttons on the right side to take precedence.

The shoulder buttons could stand to move further back and downwards so your index finger doesnt have to extend as much to reach around the buttons and press them, also giving you a tighter grip on the controller.

My PS4 predictions (most of which we will see at E3 IMO):

*Sony will take the easy way out and call it Playstation 4

*The biggest feature of the PS4 will be its 3D capabilities. Sony will push this hard. It will have the capability to convert anything it outputs, even the XMB, into 3D.

*There will be minor modifications to the Dual Shock like slighly new placements of analogue sticks and shoulder buttons and more accurate sixaxis movement, but not an overhaul

*PS4 will have 4GBs of Ram and 1GB of graphics memory.

*PS4 will not have 4K capability straight out of the gate.

*Playstation Home 2.0 will be announced

*There will be two models at launch, a 250GB and a 500 GB model with maybe 6 months of PS+ for free. I expect $400 for the standard model and $450 for the premium model. Sony knows this is a bit high priced, but by charging a premium Sony reserves the ability to lower it within 12 months if sales slow without the possibility of losing profit. Charging more for their console then the new Xbox gives off the illusion, whether real or not, that the PS4 is the more powerful of the two.

*It will launch worldwide Holiday 2013, before Black Friday in November. They're not about to give Microsoft another head start.

*It will launch with an available next gen 1080p PS Eye. Move controllers will be 100% backwards compatible.

*Ridge Racer, Motorstorm, and Battlefield 4 will be PS4 launch titles. BF4 on PS4 will look comparable to top end PC machines running the game.

*GT6 will be announced for a Q2 2014 launch, on PS4 of course (perhaps in a bundle), to try and curb any hardware sales letdowns after launch.

*Wii U will continue to suck unless of course they announce a 3D mario that takes place in the Mushroom kingdom and not space. I will then buy the Wii U ASAP.

*The new Xbox will not have bluray

 

[marluxiaXI11]

I think the controller will mostly stay the same with maybe a little adjustment to the shape of the triggers. I personally find the fact that the controller is symmetrical helps make it comfortable for me.

4K is only 4 megapixels. another name for 1080 is 2k.

While having it called the playstation 4 makes things easy for the rest of the world, Sony is Japanese. So because of the fact that the word for 4 is also the word for death its highly unlikely.

It wouldn't be very smart for Microsoft to not include a Blu-Ray drive because the games might end up having to be on more than one disk.

 

[Sprite]

4K is only 4 megapixels. another name for 1080 is 2k.

Digital Cinema Initiatives 4k (native resolution) 4096 × 2160 = 1.90:1 or 8,847,360
DCI 4K (CinemaScope cropped) 4096 × 1714 = 2.39:1 or 7,020,544
DCI 4K (flat cropped) 3996 × 2160 = 1.85:1 or 8,631,360
Academy 4K (storage format) 3656 × 2664 = 1.37:1 or 9,739,584
Full aperture 4K (storage format) 4096 × 3112 = 1.32:1 or 12,746,752

3264 x 2448 - 8 Megapixel

4096 X 3112 - 12.7 Megapixel

the naming convention used so far to discribe the next wave of TV's ect is confusing. Its going to be called UHD or Ultra High Definition.

PS4 wont push 4k in games I dont think, but I do see it been a cheaper way into to 4k video for people like PS3 was to 1080p.

 

[Samus]

Also 2k is not another name for 1080p. 2k is 2048×1080, slightly more than 1080p at 1920x1080.

*The biggest feature of the PS4 will be its 3D capabilities. Sony will push this hard. It will have the capability to convert anything it outputs, even the XMB, into 3D.

3D has actually gone on the back burner in favour of 4k, look at CES. 3D was barely mentioned.

*PS4 will not have 4K capability straight out of the gate.

For the reason above, I'm pretty sure it will. Why would they go to the trouble of including the hardware for 4k video then not include it as a day one selling point? Especially with how much Sony are pushing 4k video.

*It will launch worldwide Holiday 2013, before Black Friday in November. They're not about to give Microsoft another head start.

They will if they have no choice because it's not ready.

*The new Xbox will not have bluray

Yeah you keep thinking that.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It will be interesting to see which direction Sony go for, hardware is coming towards them in terms of cost price and performance as well as thermals. I am hoping for more high-end so a Q3 2014 release might make it possible. Something a bit more powerful than GTX 670 will do, hopefully a bit more powerful than GTX 680 too. If mid-range then something like an HD 8850 will do fine which should help bring release date a bit closer. Depends on CPU side though, how advanced they want to go as that looks like it might be a weak point if released too early.

I think though, both Sony and Microsoft will probably release a revised console this year or beginning of next, a new smaller PS3 and Microsoft a new smaller Xbox 360 (Oban I reckon might be for Xbox 360). This should make them competitive against Wii U by being able to sell console at cheaper price points while also increasing profit margins.

 

[thelvynau]

It will be interesting to see which direction Sony go for, hardware is coming towards them in terms of cost price and performance as well as thermals. I am hoping for more high-end so a Q3 2014 release might make it possible. Something a bit more powerful than GTX 670 will do, hopefully a bit more powerful than GTX 680 too. If mid-range then something like an HD 8850 will do fine which should help bring release date a bit closer. Depends on CPU side though, how advanced they want to go as that looks like it might be a weak point if released too early.

I think though, both Sony and Microsoft will probably release a revised console this year or beginning of next, a new smaller PS3 and Microsoft a new smaller Xbox 360 (Oban I reckon might be for Xbox 360).

Havent sony already released a smaller ps3?

Maybe Microsoft will release a smaller xbox 360 but Sony has already released a smaller ps3.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Havent sony already released a smaller ps3?

Maybe Microsoft will release a smaller xbox 360 but Sony has already released a smaller ps3.

I think that is more like a placeholder, to try and reduce cost for about a year. Internals have not changed much, similar to how it was in 2010. They can start getting it closer to PS2 slimline size this year hopefully or early next year.

 

[Samus]

Havent sony already released a smaller ps3?

Maybe Microsoft will release a smaller xbox 360 but Sony has already released a smaller ps3.

Twice, no less. I really don't see them coming out with a fourth version.

 

[thelvynau]

I think that is more like a placeholder, to try and reduce cost for about a year. Internals have not changed much, similar to how it was in 2010. They can start getting it closer to PS2 slimline size this year hopefully or early next year.

I doubt they will release a new version of the ps3.

The ps2 from memory only had 2 versions.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I doubt they will release a new version of the ps3.

The ps2 from memory only had 2 versions.

Unless they run into technical problems, I think there is a very high chance of a new PS3 design coming soon. There were three versions for PS2 off memory, the final version integrated PSU and changed design slightly. The new revision of PS3 will allow it to replace PS2 in emerging markets as they can then hit very low price points.

 

[Samus]

The current PS3 is already at the same pricepoint of the slim PS2. I really don't see why they would spend even more R&D money making an even smaller PS3, especially when they have PS4 production to focus on.

There were only two physically different PS2 models, the original and the slim. There was a second version of the Slim released only in Japan that had 'squished' internals but the case remained the same. You're suggesting another physical redesign.

 

[thelvynau]

Unless they run into technical problems, I think there is a very high chance of a new PS3 design coming soon. There were three versions for PS2 off memory, the final version integrated PSU and changed design slightly. The new revision of PS3 will allow it to replace PS2 in emerging markets as they can then hit very low price points.

There is already three versions of ps3, I am still wondering how you can say there will be another version of it or rather how you have facts to support that idea.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The current PS3 is already at the same pricepoint of the slim PS2. I really don't see why they would spend even more R&D money making an even smaller PS3, especially when they have PS4 production to focus on.

There were only two physically different PS2 models, the original and the slim. There was a second version of the Slim released only in Japan that had 'squished' internals but the case remained the same. You're suggesting another physical redesign.

R&D money is small in comparison to potential gain on profit. They are selling millions of these consoles a year, I don't think they will be worried about some small cost that help make them a lot of money. They already R&D a 22nm Cell CPU for a good number of years now, doubt they will scrap it unless they run into technical problems. PS4 production is not really much of concern for Sony themselves, if they are tied up with AMD, they will be doing most of the work. They just have to cocentrate on software side more and input as well as cosmetics of hardware and make the right choice on what level of hardware they want and when.

PS2 slim was quite a bit cheaper than cheapest PS3 is at the moment. Also the new design came out in UK too regarding PS2. They did change cosmetics of it.

There is already three versions of ps3, I am still wondering how you can say there will be another version of it or rather how you have facts to support that idea.

If they halve the power consumption than current PS3 super slim this year, do you think they will keep current size of PS3 or not?

 

[thelvynau]

R&D money is small in comparison to potential gain on profit. They are selling millions of these consoles a year, I don't think they will be worried about some small cost that help make them a lot of money. They already R&D a 22nm Cell CPU for a good number of years now, doubt they will scrap it unless they run into technical problems. PS4 production is not really much of concern for Sony themselves, if they are tied up with AMD, they will be doing most of the work. They just have to cocentrate on software side more and input as well as cosmetics of hardware and make the right choice on what level of hardware they want and when.

PS2 slim was quite a bit cheaper than cheapest PS3 is at the moment.

Regardless I dont see where you are basing a new ps3 slim being released on?

It makes no sence in making a new slim.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Regardless I dont see where you are basing a new ps3 slim being released on?

It makes no sence in making a new slim.

When they finally get over any hardware problems required to make Cell at 22nm and manufacture with high yield, hopefully this year or early next year.

It does, if they can lower price point and maintain high levels of profit, they can have it as console for people new to gaming / casual or emerging markets, take away some customers from Nintendo while PS4 can be sold at much high price point. Sony can then do well on all fronts.

 

[thelvynau]

When they finally get over any hardware problems required to make Cell at 22nm and manufacture with high yield, hopefully this year or early next year.

It does, if they can lower price point and maintain high levels of profit, they can have it as console for people new to gaming / casual or emerging markets, take away some customers from Nintendo while PS4 can be sold at much high price point. Sony can then do well on all fronts.

Speculation based on very little information, so much so its like me saying gt6 will feature Porsche.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Speculation based on very little information, so much so its like me saying gt6 will feature Porsche.

GT6 may well have Porsche but that is more on chance of them getting a deal. Mine is based on information regarding projects that are currently active and being worked on for probably a good few years and using logic behind it. Anyway I know people will be skeptical even if there are documents from Sony pointing towards that sometime this year. Only once it is in shops or shown to press directly by Sony, will people believe it. Six months and we should hopefully know more about potentially a new PS3 or price drop and also a bit more about PS4.

 

[thelvynau]

GT6 may well have Porsche but that is more on chance of them getting a deal. Mine is based on information regarding projects that are currently active and being worked on for probably a good few years and using logic behind it. Anyway I know people will be skeptical even if there are documents from Sony pointing towards that sometime this year. Only once it is in shops or shown to press directly by Sony, will people believe it. Six months and we should hopefully know more about potentially a new PS3 or price drop and also a bit more about PS4.

So what documents from Sony are you stating that cements your logic?

Do you have sources? All I see is you are making assumptions based on nothing.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

So what documents from Sony are you stating that cements your logic?

Do you have sources? All I see is you are making assumptions based on nothing.

I am not stating any documents from Sony, more that there should be information from FCC about it which is provided by Sony to them in hopefully within 6 months.

Logic I am using is just simple understanding of hardware and costs involved. As a business what is logical, you sell it at a higher price and at higher cost to you or sell it at a lower price at less cost to you? Do you use a case that is designed for twice the thermals or one more appropiate. 45nm Cell to 22nm Cell and 40nm RSX to 28/22nm RSX will enable a much smaller PS3 and at a much lower cost.

Couple of sources for information: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/elizabeth-gerhard/45/718/7b7
Last one, most interesting one and might go viral around Internet game sites if anyone sees this (More regarding Xbox Oban): http://www.linkedin.com/in/chenguo

 

[thelvynau]

I am not stating any documents from Sony, more that there should be information from FCC about it which is provided by Sony to them in hopefully within 6 months.

Logic I am using is just simple understanding of hardware and costs involved. As a business what is logical, you sell it at a higher price and at higher cost to you or sell it at a lower price at less cost to you? Do you use a case that is designed for twice the thermals or one more appropiate. 45nm Cell to 22nm Cell and 40nm RSX to 28/22nm RSX will enable a much smaller PS3 and at a much lower cost.

Couple of sources for information: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/elizabeth-gerhard/45/718/7b7
Last one, most interesting one and might go viral around Internet game sites if anyone sees this (More regarding Xbox Oban): http://www.linkedin.com/in/chenguo

Considering Sony have already released 2 slim ps3s its highly unlikely a third will follow and the links you provided have not convinced me otherwise.

Your not basing this on logic your merely assuming they will based off the fact lower costs of producing the console would mean more profits.

Just because they can doesnt mean they will and since the people at Sony are people then there is no guarantee they would follow logic.

Again your basing this on very little information.

 

[Samus]

Can be get back to PS4 now? Another thing I hope they improve with the PS4 controller are the triggers. They tried to morph the L2 and R2 buttons into triggers but it really didn't work, they're not shaped well so your fingers always slide off. Not to mention if you put it down somewhere and it leans even slightly on the triggers they'll activate. The triggers on the 360 are so much better because they were designed as proper triggers from the off.

 

[thelvynau]

Can be get back to PS4 now? Another thing I hope they improve with the PS4 controller are the triggers. They tried to morph the L2 and R2 buttons into triggers but it really didn't work, they're not shaped well so your fingers always slide off. Not to mention if you put it down somewhere and it leans even slightly on the triggers they'll activate. The triggers on the 360 are so much better because they were designed as proper triggers from the off.

You are right back on topic.

I would like to see a redesign of the controllers I have had the same issues with the triggers.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Considering Sony have already released 2 slim ps3s its highly unlikely a third will follow and the links you provided have not convinced me otherwise.

Your not basing this on logic your merely assuming they will based off the fact lower costs of producing the console would mean more profits.

Just because they can doesnt mean they will and since the people at Sony are people then there is no guarantee they would follow logic.

Again your basing this on very little information.

Sony's console history has shown they will constantly revise the console. Look at last two revisions, they have changed quite a bit for very small gain on profitability. I doubt they will decide to stop when they increase their profitability / competitiveness on the PS3 by a large amount. They will only when hardware sales become very small but that is a good few years away.

You should see a revision of PS Vita hopefully this year too, a slimmer version.

More interesting will be if they announce more details about PS4. I personally think they will just give beefed up numbers of performance this year but not sure what they will do due to lack of information.

 

[Samus]

They're shaped the wrong way, your finger should sit 'in' the trigger, not roll off. The shape of the 'handles' needs smoothing off as well, the current design pretty much makes you hold it with half of your hands rather than having hold of the whole thing like the bigger 360 controller. If you hold it with all of your hands you end up with a big gap.

 

[thelvynau]

Sony's console history has shown they will constantly revise the console. Look at last two revisions, they have changed quite a bit for very small gain on profitability. I doubt they will decide to stop when they increase their profitability / competitiveness on the PS3 by a large amount. They will only when hardware sales become very small but that is a good few years away.

You should see a revision of PS Vita hopefully this year too, a slimmer version.

More interesting will be if they announce more details about PS4. I personally think they will just give beefed up numbers of performance this year but not sure what they will do due to lack of information.

I think we need to agree to disagree on this one and move back to topic.

Edit: Simon I do like the layout of the 360 controller less issues and it feels more comfortable.

I hope Sony throws a redesign for a more comfortable and natural feel.

 

[Samus]

The main thing I want to see changed above others is moving the analog stick to where the D-Pad is. It makes the most sense, the analog stick is the preferred method of input for most people so it should take precedent, not the old d-pad. MS have realised this, even Nintendo have, time for Sony to.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

For me the original PSX controller design used until now is one of the best controller design, this is from someone who love the old school Nintendo controller .
I got used to it pretty quickly after using Super Nintendo pad for a few years before, I have PSX since it's release day, never have any issues with the buttons.

Maybe Sony will make slight changes again after DS3 ( more travel to shoulder buttons ), but the general layout and shape might stay, also it might get bigger in size a bit ( which is fine for me ). Another one I would love to have is better analog stick design which offer better range, smoother press/click action and precision.