Political Correctness

[Johnnypenso]

Wasn't. I said such stories, they go beyond the image itself - as objectionable as many people seem to find that image.

You said "such stories reveal about that lovable children's toy?" You referenced the story and the toy. I explained that the story supplies the context for the image and, depending on the context, the image can be racist or not. Not sure why that's so hard to understand. This is one of the issues with political correctness. The pc crown makes everything so subtle and nuanced they can't see that the vast, vast, vast majority in this case don't share their narrow view and simply see the image as a benign, comical one. If you have to force the racist agenda down the throats of 90% of the people who don't see it that way, what are you accomplishing?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I explained that the story supplies the context for the image and, depending on the context, the image can be racist or not.

To be finally clear, you don't think that negro caricature is racist as an image? Wow.

Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

Quite.

The pc crown makes everything so subtle and nuanced they can't see that the vast, vast, vast majority in this case don't share their narrow view and simply see the image as a benign, comical one

Source required.

If you have to force the racist agenda down the throats of 90% of the people who don't see it that way, what are you accomplishing?

You're saying I have a racist agenda? Huh?

 

[Johnnypenso]

To be finally clear, you don't think that negro caricature is racist as an image? Wow.

Already explained it.

Source required.

Source

You're saying I have a racist agenda? Huh?

Am I? I was using the proverbial you if that helps, but, since you asked, one (proverbial one) can force try to force an agenda of racism down your throat without being a racist, the two are quite capable of being mutually exclusive. That's how political correctness works.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Source

Maybe I'm a little dense but you're going to have to explain how that demonstrates that the "vast, vast majority" don't see anything racist about golliwogs.

...agenda of racism...without being a racist, the two are quite capable of being mutually exclusive.

You said "racist agenda", not "agenda of racism". I note your correction.

That's how political correctness works.

Avoiding racist traditions and symbols is "political correctness", whatever that is? Huh.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

If you're referring to the doll itself

You referenced the story and the toy

Glad that's cleared up.

Context:

Of course - and is current public opinion the whole context? (Assuming you mean all parts of public opinion, and not just the bits you happened to bold there.......) Does the historical usage/interpretations of these characters (and their images, stories and suchlike) not come into it at all?

subtle and nuanced

Yeah, who needs subtlety and nuance when discussing complex subjects?

 

[Danoff]

http://www.espn.com/olympics/swimmi...-gold-liberating-page-olympics-history-turned

We now have the first black american woman to medal in swimming, and we're patting ourselves on the back for some sort of civil rights breakthrough. Unbelievable. We elected a black man president, but we cannot rest until a black woman from america medals in swimming at the olympics.

 

[Tornado]

That article throws so much adversity at her that I'm not sure what part I'm even supposed to be inspired about.

 

[FoolKiller]

http://www.espn.com/olympics/swimmi...-gold-liberating-page-olympics-history-turned

We now have the first black american woman to medal in swimming, and we're patting ourselves on the back for some sort of civil rights breakthrough. Unbelievable. We elected a black man president, but we cannot rest until a black woman from america medals in swimming at the olympics.

Let's be honest here. She broke through a massive stereotype. Does it make her achievement better than Phelps or any other swimmer? No.

Does it create great media fodder because there is an underlying joke that black and white comedians alike have used for decades? Yep.

Next up: White woman wins slam dunk contest, black hockey players, and a Jamaican bobsled team.

 

[Danoff]

Let's be honest here. She broke through a massive stereotype.

Nope.

Asians can't drive:

White men can't jump:

Black men can't hold the highest political position in America

Those massive stereotypes will continue regardless of counterexamples. The stereotype that black people can't swim has already had counterexamples.

If anything, she's reinforcing the stereotype that black people are good at sports.

 

[FoolKiller]

None of your examples are US athletes from the Olympics. It's Olympics news. The whole thing is very narrow focused on that as if they are in some kind of bubble. Every personal story is about their road to the Olympics.

Came from a poor town? Overcame adversity to reach the Olympics. Your parents owning the only business in town is not important.

This is how media works. They frame a story and anything outside that frame is unimportant. With a bigger picture all she did was win another competition. In the framework of the Olympics she did something to talk about and keep the ratings up.

Her mere presence at the Olympics already breaks any perceived ceiling that could possibly exist. But that story won't get ratings.

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.espn.com/olympics/swimmi...-gold-liberating-page-olympics-history-turned

We now have the first black american woman to medal in swimming, and we're patting ourselves on the back for some sort of civil rights breakthrough. Unbelievable. We elected a black man president, but we cannot rest until a black woman from america medals in swimming at the olympics.

This is outstanding news! Canada wins it's first gold of these Olympics!

 

[Danoff]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/opinion/will-the-left-survive-the-millennials.html?_r=0

 

[mustafur]

Hence Regressive.

I'm sure they probably think their intentions are pure, but the lack of understanding another persons viewpoint is the failure.

 

[huskeR32]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/opinion/will-the-left-survive-the-millennials.html?_r=0

Very well-written, cuts right to the core of the issue.

In particular, I found this bit to be really strong:

If we have permission to write only about our own personal experience, there is no fiction, but only memoir. Honestly, my thesis seemed so self-evident that I’d worried the speech would be bland.

Pretty hard to argue his point there.

And this rings just as true:

In obsessing over micro-aggressions like the sin of uttering the commonplace Americanism “you guys” to mean “you all,” activists persecute fellow travelers who already care about equal rights.

That's pretty much all of liberal social media in a nutshell. It's exhausting.

 

[JKgo]

That's pretty much all of liberal social media in a nutshell. It's exhausting.

...Indeed. But it isn't just confined to the realms of social media alone.

Not too long ago, I used the very same phrase in a group of colleagues, and was swiftly rebuked for not being "sensitive enough" for the gender diversity present.

What a (not) nice feeling that was....

 

[DLR_Mysterion]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/opinion/will-the-left-survive-the-millennials.html?_r=0

Just read the Guardian article linked in it. I....just don't know what to say

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I do think that he neglects some key points:

In Australia, where I spoke, Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act makes it unlawful to do or say anything likely to “offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate,” providing alarming latitude in the restriction of free speech. It is Australia’s conservatives arguing for the amendment of this law.

Section 18C is essentially designed to criminalise hate speech. He notes that the conservatives are arguing for an amendment to the law, but he misses the political context to it. While they're arguing for an amendment to the law, they're also arguing against marriage equality, and - more significantly - for further restrictions on migration (read: no more Muslims). The last one is a particularly sticky issue given Australia's history with immigration law. The campaign against 18C isn't as noble as it is presented as being, because if successful, it would decriminalise hate speech at a time when the hard right is trying to whip everyone up into a frenzy.

 

[mustafur]

I think it will be political Suicide to have Homosexual hate in Australia anyway, this isn't America we can barely fill a church these days.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think you're under-estimating the likes of Cory Bernardi, George Christensen and Conchita Fierravanti-Wells, all of whom will happily let anti-homosexual hate speech run rife if it means that the traditional definition of marriage is preserved.

 

[mustafur]

 

[CTznOfTime]

With Trump as POTUS in 2017, I guess "political correctness" will no longer be a requirement.

 

[Johnnypenso]

With Trump as POTUS in 2017, I guess "political correctness" will no longer be a requirement.

He's President, not dictator. You can't stop half the country from microanalyzing everything little word or action to find some kind of fault in it, especially on social media. If anything, it's going to get even worse, in response to the Trump Presidency and his inevitable social and politically incorrect gaffes. His every move, every word, every facial expression, every tie, every pair of shoes, everything Melania and the kids do, are going to be scrutinized virtual microscope and the SJW's are going to flood the internet to tell everyone about it. If you're on the right, that's actually a good thing, because it simply galvanizes your side like it did in this election, all the moreso if Trump actually pivots to the centre and works with the Democrats as I suspect he will, bumbling and stumbling along the way of course

 

[Johnnypenso]

delete

 

[TenEightyOne]

...Trump ....his every move, every word, every facial expression, every tie, every pair of shoes, everything Melania and the kids do, are going to be scrutinized virtual microscope and the SJW's are going to flood the internet to tell everyone about it.

At least Obama escaped any internet scrutiny

 

[Carbonox]

Not like Obama has a skin color that's favored by internet warriors... oh, wait.

Sadly, orange people don't score quite as high on the Oppression Olympics medal table, and are thus more suspectible to said scrutiny.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Most of the time, an orange skin colour comes from too much spray tan.

 

[Johnnypenso]

At least Obama escaped any internet scrutiny

Someone makes a post about Trump in particular and the future of political correctness, I make a response about Trump in particular and the future of political correctness. What does Obama have to do with the election of Trump as POTUS and how Trump as POTUS in particular, will affect the future of political correctness?

 

[Pupik]

He's President, not dictator. You can't stop half the country from microanalyzing everything little word or action to find some kind of fault in it, especially on social media. If anything, it's going to get even worse, in response to the Trump Presidency and his inevitable social and politically incorrect gaffes. His every move, every word, every facial expression, every tie, every pair of shoes, everything Melania and the kids do, are going to be scrutinized virtual microscope and the SJW's are going to flood the internet to tell everyone about it. If you're on the right, that's actually a good thing, because it simply galvanizes your side like it did in this election, all the moreso if Trump actually pivots to the centre and works with the Democrats as I suspect he will, bumbling and stumbling along the way of course

You forgot the part about how Obama received plenty of criticism and negativity beneath the veneer of so-called liberal media. Naturally, he received more criticism than his predecessors, but that's due to more people connecting to the internet connecting than ever before, and a steep increase of portable web-capable devices. Couple that to a population increase that's almost always been a part of our nation, and thus I would be genuinely shocked if there was not an increase in bitching about the leaders-of-the-moment, which would likely point to some sort of centralized censorship (or magic spells).

You can't legislate political correctness, but you aren't going to beat down your neighbor's door and shout invectives when you want to borrow a cup of sugar or use their lawn equipment.

Folks will complain about anything and everything...I guess it's a matter of how boring one's life became, such that every little spoon-fed bite of mostly useless information is disguised as nutrition.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You forgot the part about how Obama received plenty of criticism and negativity beneath the veneer of so-called liberal media. Naturally, he received more criticism than his predecessors, but that's due to more people connecting to the internet connecting than ever before, and a steep increase of portable web-capable devices. Couple that to a population increase that's almost always been a part of our nation, and thus I would be genuinely shocked if there was not an increase in bitching about the leaders-of-the-moment, which would likely point to some sort of centralized censorship (or magic spells).

Folks will complain about anything and everything...I guess it's a matter of how boring one's life became, such that every little spoon-fed bite of mostly useless information is disguised as nutrition.

I didn't forget about Obama, or Clinton, or Romney, or McCain, or anyone else. I remarked on a comment about Trump, so I responded about Trump. The "half the country microanalyzing his every word" comment would have applied to whomever was elected obviously.

 

[LeMansAid]

I must be on a bit of a crusade at the moment. I am continually noticing and becoming irritated by people presenting themselves as having principles, but only really having preferences. My latest grievance links Mike Pence, Hamilton (the musical), it's cast, and Tim Minchin (the man behind other current day musicals such as Groundhog Day and Matilda).

In a very recent interview Minchin was asked if he would have any issue with actors in his shows calling out audience members to make political statements (Mike Pence at a Hamilton performance, the case in point). The answer was a simple no, but I don't believe him. Had the message been one that he strongly disagreed with I don't believe for a second that he would not take issue.

I thought that the idea was to quite simply give a voice to the voiceless, not to "steal" the voice from the voiced, and give it to the voiceless. I think that the people that enact this reverse marginalising force instead of just working to eradicate marginalisation, completely go against their own purported principles. It's ok to have a go at Pence in that way. It's ok to discriminate about which message is ok. It's not ok to act as if you're doing that based on a principle and not a preference.