POLL: Happy or unhappy with Standard cars?

[C_Raccoon23]

PD can prettify the standards all they want. They are still one-piece models from last gen and will never look as good as premiums. Which is why I'm really hoping we will never see them again after this game, so they'll stay out of GT7. They will stick out even more on the PS4, and not in a good way.

 

[XtremeBadass]

I am happy having standard cars because, the more the merrier.

 

[snowgt]

You can make standard cars look a lot better pretty easily, if you increase the polygon-count in strategic places, like round edges (wheel arches, etc.), and improve the quality of race car liveries. That shouldn't take that much time per car, and improves their visual appearance by a lot, up to an extent where you can't determine at first glance whether you're looking at a premium or standard.

GT5's standards were apparently mostly just copied from GT4 with almost no improvements at first, probably due to time constraints. I do expect them to have made those improvements now in time for GT6. Photo mode would provide horrible results otherwise...

 

[maxpontiac]

One thing keeps bothering me, how will they put both Standard and Premium cars in the same dealership if one will look worse than the other? just doesn't make sense, that's the reason why i'm hoping the difference from the outside between Standard and Premium cars will be significant.

Edit: perhaps they will put standards in a different dealership in each manufacturer like the classic cars in GT4, what do you think?

There is a reason why PDI promoted Adaptive Tessellation along with stating that all cars will be able to be used in photo mode.

I think all cars will look great, be found in it's respective dealership, and have some decent customization. I also believe that every car will benefit from their new physics related partnerships.

 

[Earth]

You can make standard cars look a lot better pretty easily, if you increase the polygon-count in strategic places, like round edges (wheel arches, etc.), and improve the quality of race car liveries. That shouldn't take that much time per car, and improves their visual appearance by a lot, up to an extent where you can't determine at first glance whether you're looking at a premium or standard.

GT5's standards were apparently mostly just copied from GT4 with almost no improvements at first, probably due to time constraints. I do expect them to have made those improvements now in time for GT6. Photo mode would provide horrible results otherwise...

I'd much rather them put that time and effort into modeling more 'premium' models. Give me 25 more 'premium' models over 800 better looking (sub)standards.

 

[markituh121]

I really couldn't care less about standard cars. As long as they feel right i have nothing to complaint about. My favourite cars are on the standard category. As long as the game as the cars i couldn't be less bothered. Of course there are some standard cars, like the roadsters, that could do with a bit of refreshing on the body.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I certainly can't wait to see how the standard cars are going to look in GT6. I can almost see it now. Them looking like the ones from the *Clean em up* thread, with edges more smooth down to look *premium* like, and hopefully the metal on them is more *premium* like too.

Man. ALL cars being in photomode and "hopefully equal" customizable is what I really wanted.

 

[maxpontiac]

I certainly can't wait to see how the standard cars are going to look in GT6. I can almost see it now. Them looking like the ones from the *Clean em up* thread, with edges more smooth down to look *premium* like, and hopefully the metal on them is more *premium* like too.

Man. ALL cars being in photomode and "hopefully equal" customizable is what I really wanted.

👍

 

[Lord Protector]

haha! I hear ya I am looking forward to it as well! I hope they are improwed.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Indeed. Can you imagine how the standard cars will like? I imagine something like this for example.

Photo by @Miklad

Photo by @Nato_777

Those two photos, right there. Are a perfect example of how I see the standard cars getting updated into in GT6. See how smooth the edges are, and even the lighting? Now that is what you call "the premium touch". 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Shirrako may not be correct in all regards, but one thing is clear... the standard cars will look better since they will be allowed to be taken into photo mode.

That doesn't mean they'll look better - all that was said was that the restriction for Photomode was dropped. On a separate note, Kaz stated "some" of the Standards would be "upgraded". Considering the Standards could already pop up in the front-menu-only Photomode locations, I can't imagine it's hard to finally allow the player to place them there. We don't yet know if the camera distance restriction will still be in place, either.

It's frankly a bit surprising how many people are under the impression every standard is going to be updated.

My only concern is the customization with the Standard cars.

It's a double-edged blade, this one; so long as they're still the one-piece models, body customizations will be very limited... unless PD has spent a huge chunk of time specifically focusing on bodykits and such for the Standards, which strikes me (personally, of course) as a colossal waste of time on what are quite out-of-date assets, especially as a good chunk of the Premos could still use more options. Then again, for all I know, that's already been addressed...

 

[maxpontiac]

That doesn't mean they'll look better - all that was said was that the restriction for Photomode was dropped. On a separate note, Kaz stated "some" of the Standards would be "upgraded". Considering the Standards could already pop up in the front-menu-only Photomode locations, I can't imagine it's hard to finally allow the player to place them there. We don't yet know if the camera distance restriction will still be in place, either.

I guess this comes down to how the individual views this news really. From a glass half full approach, we now have well over 1200 cars that we can take into photo mode which should indicate that the cockpit less cars have received some attention, when in fact, Kaz said they have.

On the glass half empty side of things, I am sure the detectives here at GTPlanet will spend countless hours finding every jaggy and deformity and posting many pictures citing "inaccuracy and laziness" on PDI's part. But hey, I am one of those who likes the "cockpit less" cars.

It's frankly a bit surprising how many people are under the impression every standard is going to be updated.

On the flip side of the coin, I am surprised at how people are so willing to throw away GT6's cockpit less cars when we have little to no information on it.

It's a double-edged blade, this one; so long as they're still the one-piece models, body customizations will be very limited... unless PD has spent a huge chunk of time specifically focusing on bodykits and such for the Standards, which strikes me (personally, of course) as a colossal waste of time on what are quite out-of-date assets, especially as a good chunk of the Premos could still use more options. Then again, for all I know, that's already been addressed.

Look at it this way Slip... PDI was accurate with GT5's standard car models so why would making body kits that could be used on premium versions at a later date?

I may be setting myself up for future disappointment but I honestly see all the street cars having at least one body kit with multiple wings with all cars having tons of wheels to pick from.

 

[Feldynn]

It's a double-edged blade, this one; so long as they're still the one-piece models, body customizations will be very limited... unless PD has spent a huge chunk of time specifically focusing on bodykits and such for the Standards, which strikes me (personally, of course) as a colossal waste of time on what are quite out-of-date assets, especially as a good chunk of the Premos could still use more options. Then again, for all I know, that's already been addressed...

This is one of the main reasons I personally am waiting to actually see what PD have done with GT5's "standard" cars, right now everyone is pretty much rushing to judgement and making assumptions without a whole lot of actual information one way or another.

We know standard cars are supposed to be getting an upgrade of some sort.

We know PD is trying to remove the functionality divide that was present in GT5.

We know that there should be "several thousand aero parts and custom wheels available for almost all cars".

What we don't know yet is how PD is going / has gone about doing all this. Are they using the same old onesies from GT 4 / 5 and spending a lot of time specifically making parts for them as Slip mentions (which I agree is probably a waste of resources)? Perhaps they're adapting as many already existing premium exterior shells for use replacing the standard models to upgrade them to "unPremium"? Maybe they scanned / created / purchased an entirely new set of less complex models (i.e. exterior only) that have the same basic functionality as the current premium ones?

At this point we just don't know how good / bad / indifferent the 800 odd "unPremium" cars will be in GT6.

 

[HuskyGT]

I am not pleased with the way this Standard category was added to GT5, however there are some cars I really wish they weren't taken out of Gran Turismo.

I guess it's a bittersweet feeling. On one side I, as many other people here, am glad that there are some models available in GT thanks to the Standard category. However, the quality in which they were presented in GT5(in some cases absolutely terrible) can make you feel really... disappointed.

As a Photo Travel fan and also a full-time cockpit camera user, Standards have always been an obstacle -for me at least- to fully enjoy the game.

So to answer the question: No; I'm not happy with them. But I would hate for them to be taken away if that's the only way of having some of my favorite cars.

We still have to wait and see how this "upgraded" Standards will work in GT6. I know it's much to ask, but as long as they look like Premiums on the outside and have working parts such as wipers and lights, I guess I'm okay with it.

 

[Tenacious D]

I may be setting myself up for future disappointment but I honestly see all the street cars having at least one body kit with multiple wings with all cars having tons of wheels to pick from.

Me too. On this matter, I think it apropos to point out that there may be more than a Standard or two which offers bodykit options that their Premium counterparts don't. As an example, the Mini Cooper S ’02 and Peugeot 206 S16 ’99 or Peugeot 307 XSi ’04, perhaps both. I believe the Premium Peugeot 207 GTi ’07 won't allow any body mods at all other than the usual rim swaps. I haven't gone through the entire Standard list yet, as that's more cars than were in GT4 in total, but there could be a few more.

I suspect that the Standards are going to make a lot of us happy, both in appearance and in the functional parity with Premiums. Why make a point of it if what Kaz said isn't true? I could be wrong, but this is what comes of being GT Planet's eternal optimist.

 

[tpark103]

Of course we are all displeased with the addition of standard cars. If anyone says that they are actually happy about it they're not being serious. My only hope is that with the excessive amount of duplicate cars maybe a select few of them could have better interiors, exteriors, and the ability to expand on the bodywork.

 

[Tenacious D]

I like the fact that the Standard cars will return in GT6, the tracks too. And I'm serious.

 

[sparkytooth]

I like the fact that the Standard cars will return in GT6, the tracks too. And I'm serious.

Me too.

All those old cars that were ridiculously awesome (Sauber C9, Alfa 155 Touring Car, Group B rally cars) cannot just go away

 

[CBH]

I like the fact that the Standard cars will return in GT6, the tracks too. And I'm serious.

Totally Agree.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I guess this comes down to how the individual views this news really.

Sure. Which is completely different from what you originally stated, however.

From a glass half full approach, we now have well over 1200 cars that we can take into photo mode which should indicate that the cockpit less cars have received some attention, when in fact, Kaz said they have.

Again, some. It doesn't indicate any work would have to be done on Standards - all it could mean is that they're no longer barred from Photo Travel.

On the glass half empty side of things, I am sure the detectives here at GTPlanet will spend countless hours finding every jaggy and deformity and posting many pictures citing "inaccuracy and laziness" on PDI's part. But hey, I am one of those who likes the "cockpit less" cars.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily call the Standards inaccurate - they were the most accurate models PD could make at the time of their creation, and using their basic construction method (that is, one without separate body panels). That was a great method... in 2001. It's also a method every other serious game in the genre dropped this generation.

On the flip side of the coin, I am surprised at how people are so willing to throw away GT6's cockpit less cars when we have little to no information on it.

They are returning, they're no longer barred from Photo Travel, "some" will be getting some upgrade attention (though we don't know if that means a full-on replacement in the shape of a Premium, such as the Countach, or a facelift to the old assets themselves). They'll enjoy the same sorts of customization the Premiums will, apparently (though we don't know the details of that customization yet).

Look at it this way Slip... PDI was accurate with GT5's standard car models so why would making body kits that could be used on premium versions at a later date?

Are you suggesting they'd make Premium-quality bodykits to stick on the Standards prior to replacing the Standard itself? I suppose that's possible - but it'd still require modifying the original Standard's model. The E46 for example can't just have it's hood/bonnet removed a la some of the Premos - it has to be edited off by PD. The same would go for bumpers. Sticking a new, Premium-quality bumper on top of the existing one could only work if it were bigger in every direction - to say nothing of the quality difference between a current-gen bumper and a last-gen car.

I may be setting myself up for future disappointment but I honestly see all the street cars having at least one body kit with multiple wings with all cars having tons of wheels to pick from.

I'll agree with you on that last bit (the wheels), and maybe the wings, if they follow GT4's universal approach. Bodykits... I don't expect so much.

I know it's much to ask, but as long as they look like Premiums on the outside and have working parts such as wipers and lights, I guess I'm okay with it.

I feel pretty comfortable saying you won't be okay with it, then . 800 Standards will not suddenly look like Premiums on the outside, unless PD has suddenly embraced outsourcing.

Why make a point of it if what Kaz said isn't true?

"Any sorts of problems, or misleading information? Ignore it!"

 

[sinbad]

.

As a Photo Travel fan and also a full-time cockpit camera user, Standards have always been an obstacle -for me at least- to fully enjoy the game.

On the flip side to that, the ludicrous level of detail on the premium cars is primarily FOR the photo mode stuff. Without the existence of photo mode the overall quality of premium cars might be significantly less (although not noticeably in actual game play) but it's also possible that a much larger portion of the total number of cars in gt5 would have been upgraded.

I think they got the balance totally wrong just so they could wow a few people with fine detail.

 

[tinram]

I think there should be 2 versions of the game, one with no longer so standard cars which oddly enough will be called standard edition. And another without standard cars called "Special Edition" for special people who can't bear less than perfectly modeled cars. Now everyone will be happy. Unless someone whines about the car count.

 

[maxpontiac]

I suspect that the Standards are going to make a lot of us happy, both in appearance and in the functional parity with Premiums. Why make a point of it if what Kaz said isn't true? I could be wrong, but this is what comes of being GT Planet's eternal optimist.

TD... I have a feeling you are correct. And for the record, there is nothing wrong with being the eternal optimist. Someone needs to be the voice positive reason here and I am glad you take the time to do so.

Sure. Which is completely different from what you originally stated, however.

Yes, but I am allowed to change my mind, dear.

Again, some. It doesn't indicate any work would have to be done on Standards - all it could mean is that they're no longer barred from Photo Travel.

If you choose to speculate from a negative viewpoint, sure that viewpoint applies. I choose to look at the immense positives of GT6 allowing me to photo shoot 1200 cars.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily call the Standards inaccurate - they were the most accurate models PD could make at the time of their creation, and using their basic construction method (that is, one without separate body panels). That was a great method... in 2001. It's also a method every other serious game in the genre dropped this generation.

I remember your case you presented a few years ago about GT5's standards and to this day, I don't see the big deal in it. We know damage is relatively the same in GT6 as it was in GT5, so the solid construction method will be fine with me should their be no distinction between the cars outside of the cockpit. IE - allow me to do the same to them as the ones that are fully rendered.

They are returning, they're no longer barred from Photo Travel, "some" will be getting some upgrade attention (though we don't know if that means a full-on replacement in the shape of a Premium, such as the Countach, or a facelift to the old assets themselves). They'll enjoy the same sorts of customization the Premiums will, apparently (though we don't know the details of that customization yet).

That is exactly my point. We know of these positive features such as photo travel and customization. Since we do not know the full details about customization and photo travel and how they relate to the cockpit less cars should everyone take a wait and see approach?

Are you suggesting they'd make Premium-quality bodykits to stick on the Standards prior to replacing the Standard itself? I suppose that's possible - but it'd still require modifying the original Standard's model. The E46 for example can't just have it's hood/bonnet removed a la some of the Premos - it has to be edited off by PD. The same would go for bumpers. Sticking a new, Premium-quality bumper on top of the existing one could only work if it were bigger in every direction - to say nothing of the quality difference between a current-gen bumper and a last-gen car.

Yes I am (sorry I missed a word in that sentence). PDI could easily construct future proof body kit items such as front splitters, ram air scoops, and canards for the cockpit less cars. They could simply bolt on like the rear wings do in GT5. Yes, the carbon hoods would be out of the question unless it is something we can paint.

I'll agree with you on that last bit (the wheels), and maybe the wings, if they follow GT4's universal approach. Bodykits... I don't expect so much.

Well sir, I do! Plus, when it comes to body kits, they could always make the generic front splitter and rear wing similar to how Forza does it for the standard cars so that all 1200 vehicles could benefit from GT6's new aero system! Worst case scenario that is.

 

[Samus]

You don't seem to understand what it means to have a single piece model. Sure you can stick extra parts on them but you can't just easily replace the bodywork as you seem to think.

 

[Nurburgthing.]

Just to reiterate...

Will there be “Standard Cars” in GT6?

We won’t be making all the Standard cars from GT5 into Premium models, and we won’t make all of the GT5′s Standard cars fully “Premiumized”.

Up until now, we used to categorize them as Standard and Premium because there were functional differences between them: some of the Standard models might not have tuning parts, or couldn’t be used in Photo Mode. That will all be cleared so every model can be used in Photo Mode, and every car can have parts fitted for it.

In terms of graphics quality, the bad quality Standard models we’ve updated so they look better.

Maybe standards are just a placeholder for future GTs .

 

[maxpontiac]

You don't seem to understand what it means to have a single piece model. Sure you can stick extra parts on them but you can't just easily replace the bodywork as you seem to think.

That is exactly what I am suggesting. See below (or above too).

maxpontiac -
Yes I am (sorry I missed a word in that sentence). PDI could easily construct future proof body kit items such as front splitters, ram air scoops, and canards for the cockpit less cars. They could simply bolt on like the rear wings do in GT5.

Kaz -
That will all be cleared so every model can be used in Photo Mode, and every car can have parts fitted for it.

In fact, it sounds exactly like what Kaz and PDI have planned.

 

[Samus]

..and don't you think those bolt on parts are going to look a bit odd if the bumpers and sideskirts are still stock, with drawn on lines instead of actual model piecing?

 

[maxpontiac]

..and don't you think those bolt on parts are going to look a bit odd if the bumpers and sideskirts are still stock, with drawn on lines instead of actual model piecing?

Well, certain premium cars (I do not remember which ones and I am at work) had a side skirt option which was just a carbon fiber piece that went under the existing body work.

I figure something like this would do and could be what we will see.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yes, but I am allowed to change my mind, dear.

Absolutely. Stating false things (or, to be more precise, stating something that goes against what we've heard straight from Kaz himself) was the issue I was pointing out (ie. all Standards being upgraded).

If you choose to speculate from a negative viewpoint, sure that viewpoint applies. I choose to look at the immense positives of GT6 allowing me to photo shoot 1200 cars.

It's not speculating - it's, again, going by what Kaz has said. I can't see how it could be misinterpreted.

And, to be fair, we could already shoot every car in GT5 - the Standards were only barred from the Photo Travel locations, and unlike Premiums, wouldn't benefit from a higher-quality model if they could be placed there anyways (as what we see in-game is the highest-quality the Standards get).

I remember your case you presented a few years ago about GT5's standards and to this day, I don't see the big deal in it. We know damage is relatively the same in GT6 as it was in GT5, so the solid construction method will be fine with me should their be no distinction between the cars outside of the cockpit. IE - allow me to do the same to them as the ones that are fully rendered.

It's interesting you mention damage, since that's one of the most obvious spots Standards suffer in comparison to the cars actually made for this generation. And, apparently (again from Kaz' interview), that'll still be the case in GT6.

That is exactly my point. We know of these positive features such as photo travel and customization. Since we do not know the full details about customization and photo travel and how they relate to the cockpit less cars should everyone take a wait and see approach?

Sure, about the unknowns - like exactly how much customization will be possible with the old assets. But what I do know simply because of the Standards' makeup is that they won't have replaceable body parts. Not unless PD has dedicated a huge chunk of time to dead assets, of course, modifying them individually to allow for, say, changeable bumpers. Which I sure hope isn't the case.

Photo Travel? There's really not much more to say about Standards being able to take part other than that itself. If PD's allowed us to actually see the interiors easily in GT6 (without having to resort to glitches like GT5), it won't do much good for the Standards. If they allow us to open the doors or hoods of Premiums? Can't be done with Standards - again, unless PD has gone through them and changed their basic single-piece makeup.

Will they still impose the distance limitation? That is one question that we haven't had answered, and I'd be surprised if we do prior to release - at least from PD themselves, anyways.

Yes I am (sorry I missed a word in that sentence). PDI could easily construct future proof body kit items such as front splitters, ram air scoops, and canards for the cockpit less cars. They could simply bolt on like the rear wings do in GT5. Yes, the carbon hoods would be out of the question unless it is something we can paint.

No problem, I got the gist 👍 . They could, though like I said, it'd have to be bigger in every single direction than the piece it replaces, since it wouldn't be replacing it - it'd be laid over top. Hoods wouldn't actually be too hard - at least not compared to things like bumpers, which regularly can have very different shapes than the stock ones, a slimmer profile being problematic in this case. Take the Supra RZ; a replacement bumper that has a much higher cut-out at the bottom wouldn't be able to be placed over top the existing one.

Though, that's probably a bad example, as I really can't expect PD to leave that car a Standard again.

Well sir, I do! Plus, when it comes to body kits, they could always make the generic front splitter and rear wing similar to how Forza does it for the standard cars so that all 1200 vehicles could benefit from GT6's new aero system! Worst case scenario that is.

Hey now, I don't consider those "bodykits"; they're just add-on splitters and wings, of the generic variety. I'm talking about truly unique-to-the-vehicle upgrades, like Stillen for Nissan, or TRD for some Toyotas. That is what I'm curious about regarding the new customization...

 

[maxpontiac]

I didn't answer everything since I agree for the most part.

Absolutely. Stating false things was the issue I was pointing out.

Ok. Now I am confused. Please show me where I posted something that was false. To my knowledge I haven't.

And, to be fair, we could already shoot every car in GT5 - the Standards were only barred from the Photo Travel locations, and unlike Premiums, wouldn't benefit from a higher-quality model if they could be placed there anyways (as what we see in-game is the highest-quality the Standards get).

We could take pictures in GT5 of all cars, correct. But as per Kaz, Photo Travel is going to available for all cars. There are quite a few cockpit less cars I can't wait to take to that solar plant thing. 👍 Plus, we don't know what adaptive tessellation is going to do with the cockpit less cars so there could be a surprise headed our way.

Photo Travel? There's really not much more to say about Standards being able to take part other than that itself. If PD's allowed us to actually see the interiors easily in GT6 (without having to resort to glitches like GT5), it won't do much good for the Standards. If they allow us to open the doors or hoods of Premiums? Can't be done with Standards - again, unless PD has gone through them and changed their basic single-piece makeup.

I can see GT6 allowing us to do that very thing with the fully rendered cars now that there should be near 500 of them. Even I can't open the doors on a 2004 Pontiac GTO, I am ok with that as long as I can do something to the exterior other then a wing.

Will they still impose the distance limitation? That is one question that we haven't had answered, and I'd be surprised if we do prior to release - at least from PD themselves, anyways.

I am by no means a computer tech guy or 3D renderer (although I am an extensive AutoCAD and Chief Architect user) so I don't fully understand all of it, but I believe the answer lies in adaptive tessellation. There are some talented photographers here at GTPlanet and I for one can't wait to see their handiwork.

They could, though like I said, it'd have to be bigger in every single direction than the piece it replaces, since it wouldn't be replacing it - it'd be laid over top. Hoods wouldn't actually be too hard - at least not compared to things like bumpers, which regularly can have very different shapes than the stock ones, a slimmer profile being problematic in this case.

Exactly. It wouldn't be hard at all using the bolt on method and for reasons you stated above, it's why I believe it's what we will see.

Take the Supra RZ; a replacement bumper that has a much higher cut-out at the bottom wouldn't be able to be placed over top the existing one. Though, that's probably a bad example, as I really can't expect PD to leave that car a Standard again.

You would sure think so! That car is one of a handful I expect converted over to fully rendered status.

Hey now, I don't consider those "bodykits"; they're just add-on splitters and wings, of the generic variety. I'm talking about truly unique-to-the-vehicle upgrades, like Stillen for Nissan, or TRD for some Toyotas. That is what I'm curious about regarding the new customization...

The "generic" variety worked good enough in Forza, so it should work fine in GT6. I honestly don't know if GT6 will feature body kits by your definition for the older assets, but they need something even if it's just "add-ons".