POLL: Happy or unhappy with Standard cars?

[Exorcet]

They could have put together a good game with 400 or so premium cars.

They did that. Then they added 800 other cars to make it a better game.

At this point, if I were you, I'd just ask for an off button for standard cars. In A-Spec, they're removed from the game. Online, they're replaced with a generic premium car.

Taking them away just doesn't make sense.

 

[analog]

They did that. Then they added 800 other cars to make it a better game.

At this point, if I were you, I'd just ask for an off button for standard cars. In A-Spec, they're removed from the game. Online, they're replaced with a generic premium car.

Taking them away just doesn't make sense.

A better game for those who don't use interior view no doubt, but the only reason they were added (and still are due to that for obvious marketing issues) is that GT5 didn't include enough Premium cars to begin with so don't assume the next GT's after this will automatically include more than a 1000 cars so a lot will be taken away eventually (whether it makes sense to you or not to include PS2 car modelling), just not right now.
Please don't forget that.

And replacing Standard cars with a generic Premium car exterior online potentially creates more issues than just a graphical annoyance at most.
What if someone uses a Tank Car for example? What will you replace it with?
Any Premium shell put on top of that will still make you question if there's a connection issue or it simply gets too confusing that it makes you long for visible pixelation.

 

[Exorcet]

A better game for those who don't use interior view no doubt

I'd argue a better game period if you get to set them on off. You're getting your 400 premium car game, and then you have 800 extra cars on the side. I like cockpit view as much as the next guy, but a few dozen of them don't really equate to hundreds of cars. Especially if those cars are "done" and ready to be put into the game.

but the only reason they were added (and still are due to that for obvious marketing issues) is that GT5 didn't include enough Premium cars to begin with so don't assume the next GT's after this will automatically include more than a 1000 cars so a lot will be taken away eventually (whether it makes sense to you or not to include PS2 car modelling), just not right now.
Please don't forget that.

I already know that demand for consistency and graphics will win out. I was focused on GT6 specifically here.

And replacing Standard cars with a generic Premium car exterior online potentially creates more issues than just a graphical annoyance at most.

I've seen it happen plenty on Forza. The Golf or whatever the blank VW that replaces DLC cars is a small car. I've rammed bumpers with them thinking I was clear because the actual car was bigger. But if people can't stand seeing a standard car in a race, they'll probably like it.

However, there is nothing preventing PD from doing something a little more advanced than what Forza did. Maybe select a premium from the same manufacturer that has the closest dimensions/body style. They could even make up generic car bodies of various sizes (unless people are more annoyed by fantasy-ish cars than by standards.

 

[ZeroTheNorth]

I really dont care about standard cars, just give me many cars to drive, then im happy.

 

[Tenacious D]

Short answer: You're all wrong, and nobody cares whether you think they're good or not. All you can really say is they're not as good as premiums.

And this is the correct answer. Some like to approach this issue as less good = bad. I love Italian food and really like AMexicana food, but that doesn't mean tacos are bad.

This thread is a perfect reflection of human nature. We're more quick to grouse than we are to praise. I have no doubt that if you decided to go into the garages of those who voted "I don't care" and said you were going to delete their Standards, you would find them reacting in a less than agreeable way.

 

[Samus]

And this is the correct answer. Some like to approach this issue as less good = bad. I love Italian food and really like AMexicana food, but that doesn't mean tacos are bad.

Yeah that's not the same thing at all.

 

[analog]

I'd argue a better game period if you get to set them on off. You're getting your 400 premium car game, and then you have 800 extra cars on the side. I like cockpit view as much as the next guy, but a few dozen of them don't really equate to hundreds of cars. Especially if those cars are "done" and ready to be put into the game.

Just to be clear, it isn't that I mind seeing Standard cars that much or at all, especially if they're indeed improved graphically, it's just that for me there aren't really 800 (again that number isn't accurate) extra cars as in cars offering the same experience.
I've used them occassionally and they can be fun if you pretend you're playing GT4 online with improved physics but having no interior view (which I grew accustomed to after a couple of years playing Prologue and before that TT) means I, both literally and figuratively can't get 'into' them.
And which makes that I don't find it makes the game better 'period', it simply expands the game by offering another additional experience (instead of simply an additional 800 cars period), an experience of another game (again, only if you think cockpit view is now an integral part of the GT experience and not just something you occassionally use if available).

And this is the correct answer. Some like to approach this issue as less good = bad. I love Italian food and really like AMexicana food, but that doesn't mean tacos are bad.

I enjoy some Italian Premium cars more than some American Premium cars and vice versa, that's just personal preference.
If either of those Italian or AMexicana meals were badly cooked however...

 

[FosterG]

As much time as it took for them to come out with GT5, how have they not had time to upgrade the standards to premium, I think PD is just not willing to part with any of their profit to do it.

 

[Nissan Cima]

As much time as it took for them to come out with GT5, how have they not had time to upgrade the standards to premium, I think PD is just not willing to part with any of their profit to do it.

I agree with this... at this point it just seems like the whole "1200 cars" thing is nothing more than a selling point to draw in players who don't know PD's dark secret.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I agree with this... at this point it just seems like the whole "1200 cars" thing is nothing more than a selling point to draw in players who don't know PD's dark secret.

Doesn't seem to have much of an effect on sales to those that know the "dark secret" either. I really don't think standards are as big an issue as people make it out to be.

 

[ImaRobot]

Doesn't seem to have much of an effect on sales to those that know the "dark secret" either. I really don't think standards are as big an issue as people make it out to be.

We only now know that dark secret, so the only sales that it could effect are GT6's. No one knew that GT5 was going to be 80% standards and 20% premium, so of course it didn't effect it's sales. Even it being out for so long, most people don't even bother reading up on a game before buying it, in fact most just go off what's advertised on game cases and ads and whatnot.

The problem is a big problem to some and a minor problem to others. It's all down to what you prefer, and not how big or small someone else thinks it is.

 

[CCXRacer]

Doesn't seem to have much of an effect on sales to those that know the "dark secret" either. I really don't think standards are as big an issue as people make it out to be.

For that last sentence. Yes and no. On paper if you told somebody that a 2013 game was using ported models from 2001-2004 and told them they fit right in they'd laugh in your face. It's not a big issue for those who know the complexity of standard cars, upgraded physics model and all. But still the bottom line is that they are using content that is severely out of date, and that's where it's a big problem to some. Some prefer to see it as a bonus, I do not. Standards were an integral part of the game, Lupo cup and formula gt are examples. If you want to 100% complete a-spec, you're going to use standards - as simple as that.

Personally I'm semi-glad they stayed. While I haven't seen any gt6 premium car list, I guarantee there would be more than one car I'd be sad to see go (as I have nearly 300 standards)

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Personally I'm semi-glad they stayed. While I haven't seen any gt6 premium car list, I guarantee there would be more than one car I'd be sad to see go (as I have nearly 300 standards)

Same here. I've got 835 standards in my garage at the moment. There are quite a few of them that I would not want to be removed from the game.

 

[Ills1999]

Why oh why can't people let those of us who like the standard cars keep them? Why do they insist on pressuring PD to remove them? Control freak much?

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

So whem GT6 comes out its rated between 9.5 to 10 probably. (GT1- 4 was like that, GT5 got 8 to 8.5)

 

[ImaRobot]

For me, I am in a pickle. I hate the visual quality of of the standards, but at the
Same time I would not want them to be removed all together. Me being a fan of the Japanese market, I really liked all the old school and vintage JDMland cars that they had. Hopefully they manage to do something, visually, to them.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Why oh why can't people let those of us who like the standard cars keep them? Why do they insist on pressuring PD to remove them? Control freak much?

As long as they don't get in my way of completing the career mode, I'm fine with them.

 

[SkylineObsession]

I'm happy driving standard cars in GT5, but it would be nice if they could slightly remove some pixelation etc, not too worried about polygon count - its mainly just the pixels that don't make them look that great.

 

[Ills1999]

As long as they don't get in my way of completing the career mode, I'm fine with them.

And if they do "get in the way"? Screw the rest of us, right?

 

[C_Raccoon23]

And if they do "get in the way"? Screw the rest of us, right?

I don't think it's asking much to have every event in the game be accessible with a premium car. And if they can't do that, perhaps it's better not to stuff all of them into one semi-random dealership, where I'd have trouble finding a specific standard car I need for a certain event.

Also, I don't see why people get so offended when someone says they don't want standard cars in the game. It's just their opinion! You honestly think PD is going to come here and see some people complaining about standards being in the game and say "Oh, looks like a few people don't like standard cars. Better not put them in the next game!" If this were true, they wouldn't exist in GT6 at all because people did complain about them being in GT5. A lot.

But I said before, PD is going to eventually have to stop using PS2 models that are 10 years old as a crutch. Having car models that are from two generations ago included on PS4 is unthinkable. Enjoy them while they're still around.

 

[analog]

Why oh why can't people let those of us who like the standard cars keep them? Why do they insist on pressuring PD to remove them? Control freak much?

And if they do "get in the way"? Screw the rest of us, right?

I doubt any pressure (and exactly what pressure? a couple of people discussing the pro's and cons of it on a forum?) has an effect at all given it's already a dead certain they'll be included in GT6.
As for GT7 on the PS4 however, that's still some years away, with no backward compatibility they don't have to fear people sticking to previous games (which I suspect is one of the reasons they're still included, having less cars on a successor on the same console would also be a first for GT) making it easier to include less cars (just like GT3 started all over again) but all Premium quality (just like all GT3 and GT4 cars were all PS2 quality).

That's unavoidable obviously, sooner or later they will be removed (the car models as in ingame models, not necessarily the cars as some of them will be remodelled whilst others won't) so I'm not getting what the big deal is really or what those opposing Standards have to do with it, it will happen regardless of what anyone here says.
I simply wished they weren't included in the first place (GT5 that is) which in itself was the odd and unlikely part, not us complaining about it (which again didn't make a difference so you can still enjoy PS2 cars on the PS3 but don't assume you still can on the PS4 which hopefully gives them plenty of time to enlarge the Premium car list to an extend you won't even miss them).

 

[Ills1999]

I don't think it's asking much to have every event in the game be accessible with a premium car. And if they can't do that, perhaps it's better not to stuff all of them into one semi-random dealership, where I'd have trouble finding a specific standard car I need for a certain event.

Also, I don't see why people get so offended when someone says they don't want standard cars in the game. It's just their opinion! You honestly think PD is going to come here and see some people complaining about standards being in the game and say "Oh, looks like a few people don't like standard cars. Better not put them in the next game!" If this were true, they wouldn't exist in GT6 at all because people did complain about them being in GT5. A lot.

But I said before, PD is going to eventually have to stop using PS2 models that are 10 years old as a crutch. Having car models that are from two generations ago included on PS4 is unthinkable. Enjoy them while they're still around.

I think it's reasonable to keep pushing PD to convert standards to premiums, I think it's unreasonable and offensive to people who prefer the available standard models to the available premium models, to pressure PD to drop all standards and leave only the premiums in the game.

It's because of the pressure by those folks that people feel the need to be a countervailing voice, so that we don't lose the cars we like in order to please a very vocal minority.

Hence, the cacophony.

I doubt any pressure (and exactly what pressure? a couple of people discussing the pro's and cons of it on a forum?) has an effect at all given it's already a dead certain they'll be included in GT6.
As for GT7 on the PS4 however, that's still some years away, with no backward compatibility they don't have to fear people sticking to previous games (which I suspect is one of the reasons they're still included, having less cars on a successor on the same console would also be a first for GT) making it easier to include less cars (just like GT3 started all over again) but all Premium quality (just like all GT3 and GT4 cars were all PS2 quality).

That's unavoidable obviously, sooner or later they will be removed (the car models as in ingame models, not necessarily the cars as some of them will be remodelled whilst others won't) so I'm not getting what the big deal is really or what those opposing Standards have to do with it, it will happen regardless of what anyone here says.
I simply wished they weren't included in the first place (GT5 that is) which in itself was the odd and unlikely part, not us complaining about it (which again didn't make a difference so you can still enjoy PS2 cars on the PS3 but don't assume you still can on the PS4 which hopefully gives them plenty of time to enlarge the Premium car list to an extend you won't even miss them).

And if PD drops a lot of the cars I enjoy for the next gen console, rest assured I'll be even less motivated than I already am to go out and replace the 3 for the 4 and the 5 for the 7.

If you don't like the "lessor" cars, don't use them. Pretty simple.

 

[Tornado]

And if they do "get in the way"? Screw the rest of us, right?

If they structure GT5 like they did GT6, sure. Perfectly justifiable attitude to have in that case; since the "If you don't like them, don't use them" argument would cease to apply. Then it would just be a matter of whether the people who can't stand Standard cars are less entitled to their feelings on the matter than those who want them to stay to the extent that they should self-censor.

 

[Ills1999]

If they structure GT5 like they did GT6, sure. Perfectly justifiable attitude to have in that case; since the "If you don't like them, don't use them" argument would cease to apply. Then it would just be a matter of whether the people who can't stand Standard cars are less entitled to their feelings on the matter than those who want them to stay to the extent that they should self-censor.

Then the question for PD is how broad is the dissatisfaction v. how deep and how broad is the acceptance v. how deep.

Even right now, the polling indicates that those who are so appalled that PD MUST make a change, and to heck with the objections, is in the minority.

 

[Tornado]

Even right now, the polling indicates that those who are so appalled that PD MUST make a change, and to heck with the objections, is in the minority.

So is the group who feel they must be included. The people who don't care that they are going to be in GT6 can't necessarily be assigned as supporting either option through their apathy, because the poll is too vague for that. How do you know that the people who don't care that they are there just don't care, in that they also wouldn't care if they were gone?

 

[Ills1999]

So is the group who feel they must be included. The people who don't care that they are going to be in GT6 can't necessarily be assigned as supporting either option through their apathy, because the poll is too vague for that. How do you know that the people who don't care that they are there just don't care in general, and thus also wouldn't care if they were gone?

The onus is always on Pro-change to sway the don't cares.

 

[Tornado]

The argument that the ~40% that simply don't want them have to sway the other ~60% who either want them or don't care is true.

But you're also making the argument that ~60% would object to them being removed, which is a different argument that the poll doesn't support because ~26% of the people who voted could very well not care either way.

 

[Ills1999]

That's only true when you know the reasoning behind their votes. You're making the argument that the ~40% that simply don't want them have to sway the other ~60% who either want them or don't care, and that is true.

But you're also making the argument that ~60% would object to them being removed, which is a different argument that the poll doesn't support because ~26% of the people who voted could very well not care either way.

Sounds like a gamble to me. PD could just as easily alienate the majority of their self-described fans in order to please a very vocal minority.

The reality is that the mere existence of 'standard' cars HURTS none, the most egregious affront being that someone who doesn't like standards may have to use one for an event or two in order to get 100% game completion vs. the multitudes who use standard cars almost exclusively.

I don't use standards because I think they are better modeled or anything like that, I use standards because the cars I happen to like to play with are standards. They happen to be the set with the more interesting, varied, vehicles.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The poll would have been better if it was setup a bit differently. I would imagine that many of those don't care votes would vote for standards if the other option was to loose most or all of those cars which were standards in GT5.

I would much rather have all of the standards made premium of course as would I expect everyone I would not even mind if some of the standards were removed but there are a lot of them that I definitely want to keep in the game and honestly when I am driving I usually can't tell the difference unless in cockpit view and even then that really does not bother me at all.

Loosing the ability to drive the FGT or the CLK GTR or the CLK Touring car or ..... a very long list of cars ... would bother me.

On another note I would also rather have the standards still in the game rather than updated if it meant they could spend that time making other parts of the game better. I would rather have a good online race or chase a fast leaderboard time in a less than perfect looking car than to race the Sunday cup in a super premium version of that same car.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I voted “Don’t care.” because I don’t care that they are standard. Would I prefer that they were all premium? Sure, who wouldn’t? Am I glad that they are of a lower visual quality? Of course not, but who is?

When it comes down to it, I am not looking for the manufacturer’s mark on the headlight as I am passing someone. Nor do I care what the car’s interior looks like, because I race with the bumper cam view for the mirror and maximum visibility.
I have very few premium cars in my garage’s favorites list. Maybe 10 or so. All of my go to cars are standard, except maybe my ’02 NSX and ’04 Integra.

My favorite Focus is the ST 170, my favorite Elise is the ’00. I could go on and on.

Why oh why can't people let those of us who like the standard cars keep them? Why do they insist on pressuring PD to remove them? Control freak much?

I wouldn’t worry much about them taking them away, but I do agree with you 100%.

They can take my Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg when they pry it from my cold dead hands.