[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[mister dog]

Posting a video with a warning about language is okay. Posting a video with an AUP-violation in the actual title, less so.

Actually i never understood why the common word for 'feces' is not allowed? I know it's blocked from the language filter but it doesn't seem very offensive? American thing right?

 

[killerjimbag]

Good articles.The Barrell bomb one pretty much sums up the election.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/11

 

[Tornado]

Actually i never understood why the common word for 'feces' is not allowed? I know it's blocked from the language filter but it doesn't seem very offensive? American thing right?

You can say "poop"

 

[mister dog]

You can say "poop"

Darnit if Paul Joseph Watson called Michael Moore a 'sack of poop', i could have posted my video then

 

[Biggles]

As SlipZ implies (in an understated Canadian way), this is (another) example of purported statements by anonymous individuals, completely unsubstantiated by any actual evidence. Don't you realize this? Making unsubstantiated claims over & over again does not make them true.

It's quite possible that HRC has anger-management issues, I really don't know & I would certainly say that she's no "angel" herself, but in general she manages to control her public persona, something Trump seems completely unable to do, as can be seen in his behaviour during the debates & on the campaign trail. It's the things he OPENLY says & the way he OPENLY behaves that that cast doubt on his intellect & temperament.

 

[Milouse]

It's the things he OPENLY says & the way he OPENLY behaves that that cast doubt on his intellect & temperament.

Indeed. The false equivalence between two very different personalities deserves no one.
Sam Harris articulated this quite well - nothing new factually - a few weeks ago.

 

[DDastardly00]

As SlipZ implies (in an understated Canadian way), this is (another) example of purported statements by anonymous individuals, completely unsubstantiated by any actual evidence. Don't you realize this? Making unsubstantiated claims over & over again does not make them true.

It's quite possible that HRC has anger-management issues, I really don't know & I would certainly say that she's no "angel" herself, but in general she manages to control her public persona, something Trump seems completely unable to do, as can be seen in his behaviour during the debates & on the campaign trail. It's the things he OPENLY says & the way he OPENLY behaves that that cast doubt on his intellect & temperament.

Biggles, her explosive temper has been well documented by people that have worked with the Clinton's, like Gary Byrne for example, ex-secret service to the Clintons. You can play the "where's the evidence claim" all you like but as the video stated, Clinton campaign staffers aren't allowed to carry cell phones. Believe whatever you want, I really don't care. As for the video, Matt Lauer was relentlessly attacked by the Clinton campaign after the event took place which lends serious weight that the conversation took place.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/08/us/politics/matt-lauer-forum.html?_r=0

 

[FoRiZon]

Just because Hillary did some shady things does not mean it makes Trump a saint of America.

I cant recall the name of that bias though.

 

[Biggles]

Biggles, her explosive temper has been well documented by people that have worked with the Clinton's, like Gary Byrne for example, ex-secret service to the Clintons. You can play the "where's the evidence claim" all you like but as the video stated, Clinton campaign staffers aren't allowed to carry cell phones. Believe whatever you want, I really don't care. As for the video, Matt Lauer was relentlessly attacked by the Clinton campaign after the event took place which lends serious weight that the conversation took place.

Dastardly, I would suggest you listen to the clip posted by Milouse. It pretty much sums up my view of Trump. HRC may not be a very appealing candidate, she may indeed have an explosive temper, but she is able, at least, to act & think like an adult.

Trump is like an overgrown 14 year old school boy. A boy born into privilege, with a bizarrely exaggerated sense of self-worth who has, his entire life, enjoyed a kind of success that has reinforced that sense of self-worth. It's not to say that he is without talents - he truly has a spectacular talent for self-promotion, a talent that in spite of some very poor business practices, allowed him to turn failure into success (for him). Luck & good timing played a big part in this, but Trump is the kind of person who believes that his success is entirely a testament to his own exceptional abilities. At the same time he continually says things that are racist, sexist, ignorant, ill-informed, or just plain stupid ... & he doesn't even realize it.

As Sam Harris puts it: "I would rather randomly pick any American citizen over Trump to be President".

 

[Johnnypenso]

Just because Hillary did some shady things does not mean it makes Trump a saint of America.

I cant recall the name of that bias though.

Can't recall anyone saying that either.

Dastardly, I would suggest you listen to the clip posted by Milouse. It pretty much sums up my view of Trump. HRC may not be a very appealing candidate, she may indeed have an explosive temper, but she is able, at least, to act & think like an adult.

Trump is like an overgrown 14 year old school boy. A boy born into privilege, with a bizarrely exaggerated sense of self-worth who has, his entire life, enjoyed a kind of success that has reinforced that sense of self-worth. It's not to say that he is without talents - he truly has a spectacular talent for self-promotion, a talent that in spite of some very poor business practices, allowed him to turn failure into success (for him). Luck & good timing played a big part in this, but Trump is the kind of person who believes that his success is entirely a testament to his own exceptional abilities.

An explosive temper, belittling and berating those around her, threatening their livelihoods for mistakes they didn't make...hardly the mark of someone able to think and act like an adult.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Biggles, her explosive temper has been well documented by people that have worked with the Clinton's, like Gary Byrne for example, ex-secret service to the Clintons.

The guy that conveniently put out a book over a decade after ending his career with the Secret Service? The book that even he admits contradicts his own testimonies from the 90's?

You can play the "where's the evidence claim" all you like but as the video stated, Clinton campaign staffers aren't allowed to carry cell phones.

Not just the staffers, but literally anybody at the "scene of the crime".
As far as I can tell, the original source for these rumours — and yes, that's all they are — is this place.

Believe whatever you want, I really don't care.

You've already made it clear that's the case. Pesky things like facts or evidence be damned.

As for the video, Matt Lauer was relentlessly attacked by the Clinton campaign after the event took place which lends serious weight that the conversation took place.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/08/us/politics/matt-lauer-forum.html?_r=0

We have a different definition of the word "relentless", then. That all reads like a light scratch compared to some of the stuff out there, personally.

...

An explosive temper, belittling and berating those around her, threatening their livelihoods for mistakes they didn't make...hardly the mark of someone able to think and act like an adult.

Indeed. As it's an accurate description of both Trump and Clinton, you can see the problem.

Of course, we've got a whole bunch of examples of Trump saying and doing stupid things. This apparent outburst of Hillary's at Matt Lauer is conveniently lacking in any actual evidence. Not that I'm saying she isn't capable of such outbursts, or hasn't had any in the past. I'm only commenting on this one.

...

Well now this is timely: The Trump name isn't long for this world in downtown Toronto. Can't say I'm surprised. The downstairs bar has always looked empty at any time of day I've walked by, and I think the restaurant was haunted by this hilarious review.

 

[Biggles]

Can't recall anyone saying that either.

An explosive temper, belittling and berating those around her, threatening their livelihoods for mistakes they didn't make...hardly the mark of someone able to think and act like an adult.

Indeed. As it's an accurate description of both Trump and Clinton, you can see the problem.

Exactly. On the other hand, Trump has publicly, openly, on the record & unapologetically belittled Megyn Kelly, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz's wife, Carly Fiorina, John McCain & POW's, a "Gold Star" mother, US generals, disabled people, African-Americans, Mexicans etc. etc. It's like he suffers from intellectual tourette syndrome, saying stupidly inappropriate things all the time. These are not "politically incorrect" things, they're just flat out stupid ... just as Sam Harris describes.

 

[Joey D]

Apparently they do early voting in Utah and since I'll be in Wisconsin on election Tuesday I figured I'd go cast my ballot today, it felt really good not voting for either Clinton or Trump. At least I can say I didn't contribute to the downfall of America.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Exactly. On the other hand, Trump has publicly, openly, on the record & unapologetically belittled Megyn Kelly, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz's wife, Carly Fiorina, John McCain & POW's, a "Gold Star" mother, US generals, disabled people, African-Americans, Mexicans etc. etc. It's like he suffers from intellectual tourette syndrome, saying stupidly inappropriate things all the time. These are not "politically incorrect" things, they're just flat out stupid ... just as Sam Harris describes.

Looks like 50% of the voting public, or thereabouts, would prefer someone who doesn't pretend to be something they are not, even if they don't agree with everything he says, vs. a traditional style of politician who behaves one way in private and completely differently in public.

 

[Joey D]

Sure.
This election is exposing mind versatility to such an extent that it may greatly help neuroscience:
(Here's a lazy copy paste from an other comment)

Trump admitting sexual assault.
Clinton emails.
Trump charity fraud.
Clinton emails.
...etc

You know you could easily break it down this way too right?

Clinton failed as secretary of state
Trump says something racist
Clinton shown to have rigged the primaries
Trump says something racist
Clinton got people killed in Libya by not doing her job
Trump says something racist
Clinton misappropriates funds from her foundation
Trump says something racist

They are both jackasses. To think the only bad thing Clinton did was forget how to alphabet and not classify her e-mails is being biased and not bothering to see the whole picture.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Looks like 50% of the voting public, or thereabouts, would prefer someone who doesn't pretend to be something they are not

Do you mean 5%? Stein and Johnson are nowhere near getting 50.

 

[DDastardly00]

I won't argue anything you said about the man, Biggles, my sentiments exactly. I had a very poor opinion of the man long before he opened his trap about Rosey O. and he has only made it worse since then. The sad thing is whatever the outcome of this election is, we all lose. Hillary's scandals will haunt her entire presidency regardless if she is charged or not. And if Trump pulls off a miracle..... Maybe I'll buy that abandoned bunker near Moses Lake, WA i(f it's still for sale).

I laughed at that Sam Harris comment btw.

 

[ryzno]

Clinton got people killed in Libya by not doing her job and lied about it.
Clinton failed as secretary of state and lied about it.
Clinton misappropriates funds from her foundation, and continues too cover it up and lie about it.
Trump says something racist.
Trump says something stupid.
Clinton shown to have rigged the primaries and lied about it.
Trump says something stupid again...
Trump finally gives a plan.

I'm sorry, my OCD had to put everything in order.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Do you mean 5%? Stein and Johnson are nowhere near getting 50.

Add them in and it might come to 55%

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Regarding the Poll Attached to this Thread

If you previously voted for a (no chance to win) 3rd party candidate, but have since decided to actually participate in this election, please update your vote in this thread's poll.

 

[Biggles]

You know you could easily break it down this way too right?

Clinton failed as secretary of state
Trump says something racist
Clinton shown to have rigged the primaries
Trump says something racist
Clinton got people killed in Libya by not doing her job
Trump says something racist
Clinton misappropriates funds from her foundation
Trump says something racist

They are both jackasses. To think the only bad thing Clinton did was forget how to alphabet and not classify her e-mails is being biased and not bothering to see the whole picture.

First off, Trump hasn't simply said racist things. As I pointed out he has insulted & belittled a whole variety of individuals & groups of people, even, somewhat bizarrely, POWs & the military, usually sacred cows of the Republican party. This is not a matter of opinion or interpretation, it's things he has publicly stated - it's on the record.

"Clinton failed as secretary of state" is not a statement of fact - it's an opinion. Failed compared to whom? It's like saying Trump failed as a businessman.

"Clinton shown to have rigged the primaries". The DNC may have done its best to tilt the primaries in Clinton's favour - pretty much politics as usual. The system may be "rigged" because the DNC runs the system the way it sees fit. That's not the same thing as Clinton rigging the primaries.

"Clinton got people killed in Libya by not doing her job". It was obviously a failure of the state department to properly anticipate the possibility of an attack & protect the US embassy personnel properly. Clinton shares some of the responsibility, but Clinton didn't "get people killed". If you're in a position in the US government that puts US personnel at risk there are going to be times where things go wrong - it's happened over & over again. Benghazi is insignificant compared to the debacle of the Iraq war that got thousands of US serviceman killed, or any number of other foreign policy disasters that resulted in the deaths of Americans.

"Clinton misappropriates funds from her foundation". Actually, the Clinton Foundation has a pretty good record & has done a lot of good in the world. However, I don't doubt that the Clintons have benefited personally from it. It's the way things are.

I'm tired of appearing to defend HRC. It's not a question of her being a great candidate, it is, as Sam Harris articulates quite clearly, a question of Trump being much, much worse.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Turns out Hillary's a Geordie. Nae wonder she'll nick owt.

 

[mustafur]

"Clinton shown to have rigged the primaries". The DNC may have done its best to tilt the primaries in Clinton's favour - pretty much politics as usual. The system may be "rigged" because the DNC runs the system the way it sees fit. That's not the same thing as Clinton rigging the primaries.

Come on, this is plain ignorance of the information provided, The Head of the DNC was in Hillary pocket the whole time starting a Hillary fund for her presidential run years before the primarys, they also worked together in placing ads in Kentucky for example on trying to "smear" Sanders as an Athiest.
Then the New head of DNC was caught giving Clinton questions of the debates before she got them live, she got sacked from CNN from this.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/23/dnc-officials-worked-against-sanders-during-primar/
http://nypost.com/2016/10/31/cnn-drops-brazile-for-feeding-debate-questions-to-clinton/

 

[McLaren]

"Clinton shown to have rigged the primaries". The DNC may have done its best to tilt the primaries in Clinton's favour - pretty much politics as usual. The system may be "rigged" because the DNC runs the system the way it sees fit. That's not the same thing as Clinton rigging the primaries.

To describe what happened to Bernie as simply "politics as usual", or the DNC "running the system as it sees fit" is a poor way of describing it. Clinton herself may not have had a direct hand, but her campaign team isn't so innocent. Debbie Schultz resigns from the DNC after the leaks, immediately joins Clinton's campaign team afterwards. Her replacement Donna, is then caught feeding Hillary questions. That's why Clinton is accused of rigging the primaries.

It's no secret that if the DNC had not tried to choose the outcome of their candidate, the Democrats would firmly have this election in the bag with Bernie at the helm.

"Clinton misappropriates funds from her foundation". Actually, the Clinton Foundation has a pretty good record & has done a lot of good in the world. However, I don't doubt that the Clintons have benefited personally from it. It's the way things are.

The investigation isn't judging whether or not the Clinton Foundation helps people or not; it's pretty clear they do. The questioning is whether or not they donate the proper amount of resources that reflect the donations given; where has the money gone? The other side is whether or not people donate to the Foundation in exchange for favors from Hillary, which is what a couple e-mails have been pressed for implying. The Haitan controversy has played a big role in the issues surrounding the Foundation esp. as the relief efforts have been seen as underwhelming years later.

Mrs Clinton's campaign has said she never did anything at the State Department as a result of donations to the Clinton Foundation. But potential conflicts of interest have emerged.

After the earthquake, disaster capitalists flocked to the nation of 10 million people, which is about the size of the US state of Massachusetts. Private contractors were eager to sell services, in what one US envoy described in a Wikileaks-disclosed diplomatic cable as a "gold rush".

In email exchanges with top Clinton Foundation officials, a senior aide to Mrs Clinton, who was then-secretary of state, kept an eye out for those identified by the abbreviations "FOB" (friends of Bill Clinton) or "WJC VIPs" (William Jefferson Clinton VIPs).

"Need you to flag when people are friends of WJC," wrote Caitlin Klevorick, a senior State Department official who was vetting incoming offers of assistance coming through the Clinton Foundation.

....

Possibly the most enduring criticism of the Clinton Foundation's work in Haiti stems from its signature project, a garment factory known as the Caracol Industrial Park.

The foundation, working with the Clinton State Department, helped arrange a US-subsidised deal with the Haitian government to build the $300m factory complex in 2012.

Several hundred farmers were evicted from their land to make way for the 600-acre manufacturing site, which produces clothes for retailers such as Old Navy, Walmart and Target.

South Korean textile giant Sae-A Trading Co, which is the main employer at the facility, subsequently donated between $50,000 to $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation.

Mr Clinton declared 100,000 jobs would be created "in short order". But the Caracol Industrial Park has created only 8,000 jobs.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37826098

 

[Liquid]

Regarding the Poll Attached to this Thread

If you previously voted for a (no chance to win) 3rd party candidate, but have since decided to actually participate in this election, please update your vote in this thread's poll.

Casting a valid ballot is participating in the election, third-, fourth-, fifth-party or not.

It's condescending of you to suggest otherwise.

 

[Dotini]

My dad said the same about a sitting president. He also said that a sitting president cannot campaign on the level he is for her. Can I get a fact check about that from someone? I don't even know where to begin searching.

Yes, the Hatch Act generally prohibits politicians/employees of the executive branch from campaigning within a certain number of days from the election. The president and vice-president are exempted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatch_Act_of_1939

The Hatch Act of 1939, officially An Act to Prevent Pernicious Political Activities, is a United States federal law whose main provision prohibits employees in the executive branch of the federal government, except the president, vice-president, and certain designated high-level officials of that branch,[1] from engaging in some forms of political activity. The law was named for Senator Carl Hatch of New Mexico. It was most recently amended in 2012.

 

[Tornado]

Regarding the Poll Attached to this Thread

If you previously voted for a (no chance to win) 3rd party candidate, but have since decided to actually participate in this election, please update your vote in this thread's poll.

I wasn't aware voting in a throwaway poll on a videogame forum is participating in a presidential election. Learn something new every day.

 

[Dotini]

As SlipZ implies (in an understated Canadian way), this is (another) example of purported statements by anonymous individuals, completely unsubstantiated by any actual evidence. Don't you realize this? Making unsubstantiated claims over & over again does not make them true.

It's quite possible that HRC has anger-management issues, I really don't know & I would certainly say that she's no "angel" herself, but in general she manages to control her public persona

Agreed that Hillary controls her public persona, and anonymous statements lacking any actual evidence are anathema. But for how much longer can you so righteously defend and internationally campaign for Mrs Clinton when we are confronted with clear signals that US law enforcement and intelligence officers at many levels and jurisdictions have grave concerns over her character and fitness for office? The following article plainly says that if the FBI fails to indict in timely fashion, NYPD will itself release bombshell emails linking Clinton to child sex crimes. Do you really want to continue to hitch your wagon to a such a wild horse running loose in another people's nation? Why, really why would you do that?

http://truepundit.com/breaking-bomb...ldren-child-exploitation-pay-to-play-perjury/
New York Police Department detectives and prosecutors working an alleged underage sexting case against former Congressman Anthony Weiner have turned over a newly-found laptop he shared with wife Huma Abedin to the FBI with enough evidence “to put Hillary (Clinton) and her crew away for life,” NYPD sources told True Pundit.

NYPD sources said Clinton’s “crew” also included several unnamed yet implicated members of Congress in addition to her aides and insiders.

-------------------

NYPD sources said these new emails include evidence linking Clinton herself and associates to:

• Money laundering
• Child exploitation
• Sex crimes with minors (children)
• Perjury
• Pay to play through Clinton Foundation
• Obstruction of justice
• Other felony crimes

NYPD detectives and a NYPD Chief, the department’s highest rank under Commissioner, said openly that if the FBI and Justice Department fail to garner timely indictments against Clinton and co- conspirators, NYPD will go public with the damaging emails now in the hands of FBI Director James Comey and many FBI field offices.

------------------------

The new emails contain travel documents and itineraries indicating Hillary Clinton, President Bill Clinton, Weiner and multiple members of Congress and other government officials accompanied convicted pedophile billionaire Jeffrey Epstein on his Boeing 727 on multiple occasions to his private island in the U.S Virgin Islands, sources said. Epstein’s island has also been dubbed Orgy Island or Sex Slave Island where Epstein allegedly pimps out underage girls and boys to international dignitaries.

Both NYPD and FBI sources confirm based on the new emails they now believe Hillary Clinton traveled as Epstein’s guest on at least six occasions, probably more when all the evidence is combed, sources said. Bill Clinton, it has been confirmed in media reports spanning recent years, that he too traveled with Epstein over 20 times to the island.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-finds-emails-related-to-hillary-clintons-state-department-tenure/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/03/fbi-leaks-hillary-clinton-james-comey-donald-trump

 

[Scaff]

Agreed that Hillary controls her public persona, and anonymous statements lacking any actual evidence are anathema. But for how much longer can you so righteously defend and internationally campaign for Mrs Clinton when we are confronted with clear signals that US law enforcement and intelligence officers at many levels and jurisdictions have grave concerns over her character and fitness for office? The following article plainly says that if the FBI fails to indict in timely fashion, NYPD will itself release bombshell emails linking Clinton to child sex crimes. Do you really want to continue to hitch your wagon to a such a wild horse running loose in another people's nation? Why, really why would you do that?

http://truepundit.com/breaking-bomb...ldren-child-exploitation-pay-to-play-perjury/
New York Police Department detectives and prosecutors working an alleged underage sexting case against former Congressman Anthony Weiner have turned over a newly-found laptop he shared with wife Huma Abedin to the FBI with enough evidence “to put Hillary (Clinton) and her crew away for life,” NYPD sources told True Pundit.

NYPD sources said Clinton’s “crew” also included several unnamed yet implicated members of Congress in addition to her aides and insiders.

-------------------

NYPD sources said these new emails include evidence linking Clinton herself and associates to:

• Money laundering
• Child exploitation
• Sex crimes with minors (children)
• Perjury
• Pay to play through Clinton Foundation
• Obstruction of justice
• Other felony crimes

NYPD detectives and a NYPD Chief, the department’s highest rank under Commissioner, said openly that if the FBI and Justice Department fail to garner timely indictments against Clinton and co- conspirators, NYPD will go public with the damaging emails now in the hands of FBI Director James Comey and many FBI field offices.

------------------------

The new emails contain travel documents and itineraries indicating Hillary Clinton, President Bill Clinton, Weiner and multiple members of Congress and other government officials accompanied convicted pedophile billionaire Jeffrey Epstein on his Boeing 727 on multiple occasions to his private island in the U.S Virgin Islands, sources said. Epstein’s island has also been dubbed Orgy Island or Sex Slave Island where Epstein allegedly pimps out underage girls and boys to international dignitaries.

Both NYPD and FBI sources confirm based on the new emails they now believe Hillary Clinton traveled as Epstein’s guest on at least six occasions, probably more when all the evidence is combed, sources said. Bill Clinton, it has been confirmed in media reports spanning recent years, that he too traveled with Epstein over 20 times to the island.

You mean the exact same person that Trump also has links to and who's parties Trump has also attended numerous times?

http://www.dailywire.com/news/5556/...bout-trump-and-sex-slave-amanda-prestigiacomo

Odd you didn't mention that.

 

[Dotini]

You mean the exact same person that Trump also has links to and who's parties Trump has also attended numerous times?

There are two degrees of separation between myself and Adolph Hitler, my mother and Helene Mayer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation