[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[Milouse]

I wonder why all this hate atmosphere...

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Should be him, some say it's a diazepam injection, others say it's just a flashlight

Thanks for the description, helped me find this video:



Looks like a flashlight to me.

Besides someone with pneumonia doesn't suffer from sudden spastic movements?

Seems pretty clear she fainted. "Sudden spastic movements" is an odd way to describe fainting.

No way for me to prove that this is fact or fiction. I do find it all a little suspicious and there is proper ground for people to doubt she is fit enough to handle a 4 year presidency

Well this is my beef.

There's certainly a lot of theory out there surrounding Hillary's health/fitness. I've seen a lot of people suggest that this is reason alone to raise doubt. You imply this yourself - you don't know if the theories are true or not, but the fact there's a lot of them is enough for you to be suspicious.

I don't get this. Whether a claim is true/false doesn't depend on how often it's made, it depends on the evidence behind it. I could read all over the internet that 2+2=5, millions of times, but if there's nothing that actually backs it up, it's not going to give me "grounds for doubt" that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.

Every theory I've seen - from diazepam/flashlight man, to the letter claiming she has dementia, to the numerous photos of her walking up stairs - either didn't have credible evidence, or was simply false. The genuinely true facts and cases - the concussion/clots, the pneumonia/fainting (and her campaign team's totally botched handling of it), and her age - don't suddenly make these theories true or suspicious.

 

[Northstar]

I wonder why all this hate atmosphere...

The atmosphere is nothing new, some people just can't act like adults and accept that people will have different views.

 

[Biggles]

Libertarian VP candidate Bill Weld destroys Hillary Clinton:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/11/06/sotu-weld-full.cnn

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...r-maid-to-print-out-classified-materials.html
You can't make this stuff up folks. Fast and loose with national security.

As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton routinely asked her maid to print out sensitive government emails and documents — including ones containing classified information — from her house in Washington, D.C., e-mails and FBI memos show. But the housekeeper lacked the security clearance to handle such material. In fact, Marina Santos was called on so frequently to receive e-mails that she may hold the secrets to E-mailgate — if only the FBI and Congress would subpoena her and the equipment she used.

Among other things, Clinton requested Santos print out drafts of her speeches, confidential memos and “call sheets” — background information and talking points prepared for the secretary of state in advance of a phone call with a foreign head of state. “Pls ask Marina to print for me in am,” Clinton emailed top aide Huma Abedin regarding a redacted 2011 message marked sensitive but unclassified.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...r-maid-to-print-out-classified-materials.html
You can't make this stuff up folks. Fast and loose with national security.

 

[Milouse]

*cough*
http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-companies-destroyed-emails-documents-515120?rm=eu

 

[samurai8juice]

*cough*
http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-companies-destroyed-emails-documents-515120?rm=eu

As a proper Republican would probably say:

"Europeans don't know anything about America."

"Anyways, he's not a politician, so it's not that bad."

"All corporations probably do it."

"It's not the FBI he lied to, so it's not a big deal."

 

[Dotini]

http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/06/n...ary-use-private-server-didnt-want-her-to-run/
In an email exchange released Sunday by WikiLeaks, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta implied her lawyer and long-time friend Cheryl Mills came up with the idea of Clinton using a private email server while secretary of state.

When campaign advisor Neera Tanden asked, “Do we actually know who told Hillary she could use a private email? And has that person been drawn and quartered?” Podesta responded, “Don’t you think Cheryl?”

Mills was questioned by the FBI in connection to the email investigation and, in an unusual step, was allowed to be present during Clinton’s interview as her counsel.

To Podesta’s suggestion it was Mills, Tanden responded, “I repeat, why hasn’t this person been drawn and quartered? I’m reading wolf hall. There is something to be said for the power of torture.”

The Daily Caller previously reported Tanden’s response, but the most recent WikiLeaks release shows Podesta’s subsequent response.

“At least we now know why Cheryl didn’t want her to run,” Podesta responded.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/51094

 

[Scaff]

Voter freakout, vandalism and violence:
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/trump-surge-freakout-anti-trump-violence-growing-rapidly/

Seriously can you start checking the sources you use, this ones actually claiming that a Republican with a poster was an assassination attempt.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...r-maid-to-print-out-classified-materials.html
You can't make this stuff up folks. Fast and loose with national security.

If true then it's a clearly stupid move.

It's however worth remind people that the use of private email is not exactly the exclusive domain of Clinton, but rather is widespread in the US government and has been under numerous administrations.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ate-email-accounts-classified-hillary-clinton


http://dailysignal.com/2015/03/08/h...ory-using-personal-email-government-business/


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/03/07/state-dept-concludes-past-secretaries-of-state/209044

 

[Milouse]

@samurai8juice
I guess it was an ironic comment.

there is proper ground for people to doubt she is fit enough to handle a 4 year presidency

The atmosphere is nothing new, some people just can't act like adults and accept that people will have different views.

You don't see how the atmosphere is toxic more than ever in this election. I can't answer this.

Seriously can you start checking the sources you use, this ones actually claiming that a Republican with a poster was an assassination attempt.

This has been asked to him repeatedly, i don't see why he'll stop intoxicating this thread with fake, fabricated informations and links that he didn't even read himself.

 

[mister dog]

This has been asked to him repeatedly, i don't see why he'll stop intoxicating this thread with fake, fabricated informations and links that he didn't even read himself.

Your 'she had pneumonia but came to the 9/11 memorial anyway' meme probably doesn't hold up to scrutiny neither. Or you just believe everything the Clinton press agency releases?

 

[Dotini]

President Obama recently appeared to say undocumented people could vote without fear of consequences.
<deleted media>
It is clearly against the law that non citizens can vote in a federal election. So is Obama being sneaky? Tricky? Treasonous?

 

[Northstar]

You don't see how the atmosphere is toxic more than ever in this election. I can't answer this.

Honestly, no I can't see it being anymore toxic than the last few elections and how you can judge that from France is beyond me considering you don't get bombarded with attack ads nor do you have to deal with the American public on a daily basis.

 

[Dotini]

I think the poor French need a break. They financed the American Revolution and did not receive the expected favored trade agreements. So they suffered the trauma of the French Revolution as a consequence of the debt and taxation. (I'm not saying there were not other underlying factors in the French Revolution, or making judgment of the long term consequences.)

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Wait, wait, wait... is somebody actually using an article that quotes what 4chan users say as a source?

Seriously can you start checking the sources you use

It's two days before the election: why expect it to start now?

 

[Milouse]

@Dotini, seriously, for the n-th time, stop making everyone lose their time to read/watch your posted material that clearly contradicts what you claim is. At this point you don't respect people who read this thread.

@Northstar, Yes, the US campaigns are usually toxic, but you couldn't find many more consensus in this election, in all comments, that it is more toxic than ever. This isn't linked to where i live.

 

[Dotini]

@Dotini, seriously, for the n-th time, stop making everyone lose their time to read/watch your posted material that clearly contradicts what you claim is. At this point you don't respect people who read this thread.

@Northstar, Yes, the US campaigns are usually toxic, but you couldn't find many more consensus in this election, in all comments, that it is more toxic than ever. This isn't linked to where i live.

Any and every source that Scaff has objected to I have deleted. I don't need them. I have plenty of mainstream sources for you to look at. Enjoy!

 

[McLaren]

It's two days before the election: why expect it to start now?

We could just start posting memes & political cartoons instead to argue for us.

 

[Scaff]

President Obama recently appeared to say undocumented people could vote without fear of consequences.

It is clearly against the law that non citizens can vote in a federal election. So is Obama being sneaky? Tricky? Treasonous?

Nope.

Once again your using a quote mined source to utterly change reality.

http://www.bizzyblog.com/2016/11/06...youre-illegal-and-vote-you-wont-get-reported/

It's now getting to the point that you appear to be doing so quite deliberately.

 

[Dotini]

Nope.

Once again your using a quote mined source to utterly change reality.

http://www.bizzyblog.com/2016/11/06...youre-illegal-and-vote-you-wont-get-reported/

It's now getting to the point that you appear to be doing so quite deliberately.

That video was quoted straight from YouTube, without alteration by me. It's the President talking.

If you really think I'm doing something terrible, why don't you please ban me till after the election? I do not appreciate the condemnation for posting on my election and receiving flak from foreigners.

 

[Scaff]

That video was quoted straight from YouTube, without alteration by me. It's the President talking.

If you really think I'm "quote mining", why don't you please ban me till after the election?

Did you even bother following the link I provided?

The video you posted has been edited, yet you are quite happy to present it as fact.

 

[McLaren]

That video was clipped straight from YouTube. It's the President talking.

If you really think I'm "quote mining", why don't you please ban me till after the election?

Yes mate, but the video is also edited to end quickly like a good ol' CNN trick. Scaff's transcript does reveal at the end of their discussion that Obama is saying that he wants Latino citizens to vote because they speak for the illegals who can't.

RODRIGUEZ: This has been a huge fear presented, especially during this election.

OBAMA: The reason that fear is promoted is because they don’t want people voting. People are discouraged from voting, and part of what is important for Latino citizens (emphasizing “citizens”) is to make your voice because you’re not just speaking for yourself. You’re speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school —

RODRIGUEZ: Your entire community.

OBAMA: — who, may not have a voice, who can’t legally vote. But they’re counting on you to make sure that you have the courage to make your voice heard.

 

[Dotini]

Did you even bother following the link I provided?

The video you posted has been edited, yet you are quite happy to present it as fact.

I said it "appeared" to do something. And I asked a question.

No I did not look at your link, I have not had the time. How is it relevant?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

We could just start posting memes & political cartoons instead to argue for us.

I don't remember saying that was any better, oddly.

They aren't, of course: anybody that thinks the entire election can be summed up in a few punchlines is massively missing the point (possibly on purpose). But the intentionally-misleading posts from Dotini are not new: here's one from last week. And another.

It takes a modicum of critical thinking to look beyond the tin-foil-hat Youtube video titles.

 

[Northstar]

This isn't linked to where i live.

Oh but it is. You are basing your opinion on what you see on the internet and TV, which is fine as that's all you have. You're no more in touch with how things actually are in the U.S. than I am concerning matters concerning French politics.

Nothing I've seen in this election is any different than the usual process of things.

Step 1: People start choosing their sides about a year before the election
Step 2: As election day draws near they become stupider and less tolerant with some taking it too far but most remain semi-civil.
Step 3: Election is over and people slowly start to calm down.
Step 4: Wait a year and a half and start over.

 

[Milouse]

We could just start posting memes & political cartoons instead to argue for us.

A political cartoons can say something strong and have a point. They are actually often better than speech in order to point contradictions, and not less legitimate.

That video was clipped straight from YouTube. It's the President talking.

The problem is not who talks, but who doesn't care listening to the video he links to.

 

[Dotini]

A political cartoons can say something strong and have a point. They are actually often better than speech in order to point contradictions, and not less legitimate.


The problem is not who talks, but who doesn't care listening to the video he links to.

Now that I see - in the extended version - that the President affirms that only citizens can vote, I see what you mean. But, quirkily, he also says that voting makes you a citizen.

 

[McLaren]

I don't remember saying that was any better, oddly.

They aren't, of course: anybody that thinks the entire election can be summed up in a few punchlines is massively missing the point (possibly on purpose). But the intentionally-misleading posts from Dotini are not new: here's one from last week. And another.

It takes a modicum of critical thinking to look beyond the tin-foil-hat Youtube video titles.

That wasn't directed at you (apologize to come across that way), but referencing the member who decided to post a picture comparing Hillary at the 9/11 memorial to Trump exiting a debate with Meghan Kelly, as if that's anything close to respectable argument.

This thread shouldn't turn into an OccupyDemocrats page of using silly memes to debate for us.

A political cartoons can say something strong and have a point. They are actually often better than speech in order to point contradictions, and not less legitimate.

This is a debate thread, though. Everyone here makes the attempt & effort to argue their own points. It'd be a funny pic thread if we just start using memes & political cartoons for both candidates to argue for us.

 

[Dotini]

But the intentionally-misleading posts from Dotini are not new: here's one from last week. And another.

It takes a modicum of critical thinking to look beyond the tin-foil-hat Youtube video titles.

You're a little slow; I think I deleted both those a few days ago. Anything else you want deleted? I'll do it. One the charms of this forum has been that it tolerates Daily Mail and other substandard sources. If you want me live to a higher standard because of my higher character and ability, I'll try to live up to your expectation. If you really think I'm intentionally misleading and violating the AUP, I'd appreciate a warning, an infraction or a ban. Personal digs hurt worse.

Political campaigns are a partisan affair. How can you expect participants in the fray to be be 100% objective?? Foreigners certainly have their axe to grind in our election, and they're not shy about it. Are the minority of participants in this thread US persons?