Polyphony should Learn From Square (development)

[Griffith500]

No, you're mistaken, there never was any complaints. If you persist in thinking you remember, then you'll only allow Forza to sink back to second best; and you surely wouldn't want that, would you?

You have never had it so good.

 

[Bigbazz]

No point in complaining? So everyone is fine if we have to wait another 6 years, or until 2016 for GT6? Because other games do it doesn't mean it's OK. And GT has Forza and Turn 10 rolling with all sorts of thunder. Turn 10 had made it their goal to be what Gran Turismo is not. They listen to fans, they add almost everything they want. That's not good news for Gran Turismo. Alot of guys are going to jump off the GT bus and on the PC sim bandwagon or even Forza if PD keeps back peddling.

Point is Turn 10 is kicking out Forza games every 2 years. PD is going to have to step up to the plate and match that. If they're going to take longer then they need to release a polished, awesome game that was worth the wait. Some of GT5 was worth the wait, but alot of it, or most of it wasn't. They make the fanbase wait so long again and throw out another unfinished game that may be their final bad move. Square has admitted they took too long with Final Fantasy XIII and the game wasn't that great and wasn't what the fans wanted. PD needs to learn from Square's mistakes as they are making very similar ones.



I think any great, major update, like an event creator/editor will be held back until GT6, and I can understand that.

There is no point in complaining, it won't make the game come out any faster. Delays in the games release time disapoint the developers just as much as it does the game fans. Do you want them to release it earlier and end up with something like many other developers do?

Shift 2? released with a massive list of bugs and issues, basically abandoned from release day. Mostly because it was rushed out and then the devs were rushing on to new projects. SMS are working on a fix for all the issues in Shift 2, its called Project Cars and its a new title.

This happens to a lot of games, so really you should be thankful that a company like PD spends more time to release their games when they feel the games are ready, and then continue to support the game with many updates, tweaks, content and fixes.



Perhaps T10/Forza work faster and get their games out faster and maintain the high quality to compete with PD/GT5 and that is great, but complaining about this still doesn't change anything. If PD felt they could do it without compromising their game then they probably would.

 

[Jav]

Everything leads back to the OP. PD really needs to open comunication channels with their fans in order to remain competitive and relevant.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Everything leads back to the OP. PD really needs to open comunication channels with their fans in order to remain competitive and relevant.

2012 Progress report: F

PD and Kazunori, go to your room! No TV, internet, video games, Ipod, cellphone, Ipad, pager, house phone or letter-delivering-pigeons.

 

[Jav]

2012 Progress report: F

PD and Kazunori, go to your room! No TV, internet, video games, Ipod, cellphone, Ipad, pager, house phone or letter-delivering-pigeons.

LMAO!! so true!

 

[NLxAROSA]

LOL, did someone actually compare the Uncharted series release schedule with GT's release schedule to claim they are just as efficient? Just compare the two products, and you'll know it proves the exact opposite. If two companies are on a similar schedule and one delivers well-polished, finished products and one delivers products that miss features completely and/or others implemented half-arsed, it's obvious who's more efficient, isn't?

PD should take some lessons from Naughty Dog instead, they know how to deliver great, finished, well balanced products on time, every time.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

This happens to a lot of games, so really you should be thankful that a company like PD spends more time to release their games when they feel the games are ready, and then continue to support the game with many updates, tweaks, content and fixes.

Why do people still justify the long development time for PD's games? $60 million budget and you mean to tell me they couldn't hire more people so they could put more in GT5 and get it out quicker? Give me a break.

I just hope Kaz is right about GT6 taking less time. I'm never going to believe a word he says again otherwise.

 

[Griffith500]

Everything leads back to the OP. PD really needs to open comunication channels with their fans in order to remain competitive and relevant.

No, PD need to make GT6 as good as it can be. Your anxiety doesn't factor into it. Sure they could say stuff to make you think one thing, but when the game comes it might not be true. That happens with every game, especially as long as the people making the game aren't the ones saying the stuff. Anything that gets relayed to the public is PR, and PR is marketing.
Which would you rather, the developers waste development time on making sure marketing material is accurate, or just have them do their job and you take the marketing with a pinch of salt? Or maybe they should keep the marketing on hold until everything's a bit more concrete?

Anyway, we've had plenty of feedback about where GT is heading next, I personally don't need Kaz to tell me what little incomprehensible part of development went tits-up this week and what worked better than planned. Although I would find it fascinating. I'm sure when they feel they have something reliable to share with us, they will do.

 

[amar212]

Why do people still justify the long development time for PD's games? $60 million budget and you mean to tell me they couldn't hire more people so they could put more in GT5 and get it out quicker? Give me a break.

No, they could not.

But you probably know better about approval policies for both financial and human-resource management that are imposed to them by SCEI, about their inner workflow management, way how SCEI is handling PD's funding, way how various licenses are obtained and handled from SCEI/SCEA/SCEE and such.

And before you use "Turn10" argument, please just know how it is not comparable, either from management or structural side of things, despite almost everyone finds if comparable for the sake of forum-debates, while it is "apples-oranges" in the real world.

Besides, when you look a overall picture, in 15 years PD has developed 8 games, so it is roughly one game in 2 years with staff that is just recently reaching 150 people (was less than 80 employees only 6 years ago).

Please check your "facts" before telling other people to take a break, thank you in advance.

PS
Find me another game in genre on consoles that achieve what GT5 achieves: 60fps/premium vehicles/animated vehicles/animated drivers/real-time volumetric smoke/real-time sparks and flame particles/day-night transition/weather transition/different surfaces with the same physics engine/real-time spatial surround/real-time interior and exterior lightning with HDR properties/real-time HDR skybox /surroundings and surface real-time lightning/non pre-baked (real-time) vehicle deformation/fuel and tyre wear/real-time raindrops animation with proper movement & inertia calculation... You can't, right? Okay, long development process has just been justified, thanx mate 👍

 

[McClarenDesign]

Wow. /thread.

 

[Zuku]

I'd rather PD not learn from Square-Enix maybe more like Naughty Dog, but even still GT5 after all the updates and some DLC isn't that bad. There are some things they still need to improve on, but it's no where near as horrid a game that is FFXIII(2nd worst purchase I've made on PS3).

 

[NLxAROSA]

Find me another game in genre on consoles that achieve what GT5 achieves: 60fps/premium vehicles/animated vehicles/animated drivers/real-time volumetric smoke/real-time sparks and flame particles/day-night transition/weather transition/different surfaces with the same physics engine/real-time spatial surround/real-time interior and exterior lightning with HDR properties/real-time HDR skybox /surroundings and surface real-time lightning/non pre-baked (real-time) vehicle deformation/fuel and tyre wear/real-time raindrops animation with proper movement & inertia calculation... You can't, right? Okay, long development process has just been justified, thanx mate 👍

And only a few of them implemented consistently throughout the game. Long development process explained? Indeed. Justified? Not quite. Which in no way diminishes the staggering amount of work that went in, just that they probably should have focused on different, and preferrably less things at once. PD bit off more than they could chew/stick in the product.

But not all is lost IMO, the most valuable that is gained from projects like this is human value, a.k.a. knowledge. They know how to implement all those features, so I am quite convinced they will make all of them fully functional over the whole line in the next iteration (e.g. GT6).

 

[C_Raccoon23]

@NLxARODSA: I agree. Where is the focus in GT5? It just tries to do too much. I would have a greater appreciation for some of those features listed if PD didn't try to cram inconsistent content. GT3 only had 150 cars but I still had a blast using them in the well-thought out carrer and arcade mode. Because of that, it's my favorite GT game. Just what I think of as a good example of quality over quanity.

Again, I just hope I can believe Kaz regarding his promises for GT6.

 

[Spagetti69]

Again, I just hope I can believe Kaz regarding his promises for GT6.

Oh Lawdy, what's he promised this time?

 

[Griffith500]

@NLxARODSA: I agree. Where is the focus in GT5? It just tries to do too much. I would have a greater appreciation for some of those features listed if PD didn't try to cram inconsistent content. GT3 only had 150 cars but I still had a blast using them in the well-thought out carrer and arcade mode. Because of that, it's my favorite GT game. Just what I think of as a good example of quality over quanity.

Again, I just hope I can believe Kaz regarding his promises for GT6.

GT2 was so much better than GT3, though, in the same way GT4 was so much better than GT5 is. I know I wasn't the only one disappointed with GT3; it felt remarkably similar then as to when GT5 first arrived not too long ago. And I'm not just talking about the relatively meagre car count (effectively quartered in both cases). It was of course still a great game.

 

[amar212]

Oh Lawdy, what's he promised this time?

Nothing.

He never told a single thing about GT6 with exception they are working on it and how it will be done in shorter period of time than GT5.

But it will not stop people bragging about *promises* or whatever they find worth bragging about.

 

[Raitziger]

If PD felt they could do it without compromising their game then they probably would.

You mean something below quality of standard cars

 

[Spagetti69]

Nothing.

He never told a single thing about GT6 with exception they are working on it and how it will be done in shorter period of time than GT5.

But it will not stop people bragging about *promises* or whatever they find worth bragging about.

TBH I hadn't heard anything either via Kaz regarding GT6. I suspect he's a little sidetracked with Vita at the moment.

 

[JBanton]

I hope PD actually involve fans of the series and people would play GT6 in the game's development.

There have a been a number of features that nobody asked for included or added in GT5 (paint chips, trading limit etc) PD need to make a good game instead of relying on their brand name to carry them. I hope this is not the case for GT6

 

[Zuku]

Earning paints wasn't a bad idea it was the fact we couldn't reuse them aftwerwards that ticked me off.

 

[JBanton]

The paints weren't the only problem...

If only PD listened to their customers.