Potato...

[dabz343]

You have majority of the votes leaning towards worse, some rational and constructive criticism about GTS's physics realism, now this video of top guys literally laughing at 1.39 physics (thank you MrWaflez55)......................and I guess that's all one can do now--LMAF.

Wait, actually to those that like 1.39--how do you respond to the top guys view on 1.39? Hesitation? Why stop now? Continue your uncontrolled, baseless rants...so, what say you? You've got one last shot before I bring out the fat lady.

 

[Groundfish]

Yep, I think that the lack of fear is problem in all sims. I think that's one of the reason developers make cars harder to drive.
With real life grip and balance, you could do hell of a fast lap times, because no fear of death would slow you down.
Then somebody would complain, that its not real to go that fast.
I do like the AC physics, and these new GTS physics.

Agreed.

 

[Novalee]

No fear of death is a argument for damage

 

[Jimmy_apex]

Fear is an argument for mere mortals during a track day ( body damage, loss of money). Not for professionnals race driver or suicidal champions (like riders during the tourist trophy on the isle of man for exemple) . This argument is totally irrevelant.

At 100% limits of a car in a virtual environnement. If the physics is broken, don't blame fear IRL. Blame the makers of the game.

AC physics is way closer to 1.38 than 1.39 IMO.

Edit: At least, if you want to use some arguments to enhance your point of view. Use some that actually make sense.

 

[GTPorsche]

I'm not convinced the new physics are completely bad. A slight adjustment to the tire model and an even longer odd shot of changing the very terrible default setups would be an immediate improvement to the changes that were made.

Also, the wheelies that have been seen are due to unrealistic setups being done to cars and putting them on tires that they were never intended to ever be driven on. It's just that the cars start clipping through the track surface to exaggerate the conditions occurring with that.

 

[sdi_03]

You have majority of the votes leaning towards worse, some rational and constructive criticism about GTS's physics realism, now this video of top guys literally laughing at 1.39 physics (thank you MrWaflez55)......................and I guess that's all one can do now--LMAF.

Wait, actually to those that like 1.39--how do you respond to the top guys view on 1.39? Hesitation? Why stop now? Continue your uncontrolled, baseless rants...so, what say you? You've got one last shot before I bring out the fat lady.

What makes the "top guys" more competent to compare 1.39 physics to real life?? All pro drivers like D Perrel??
Btw, in Davids vid, there is no mention if the new physics are worse, he did thou say, that 1,38 with the ridiculous shiftlock turns was stupid.
Something like that.
Havent post here because, this is classic case of "oil wars thread" and this will never stop. Have used that time to adapt the new physics on the game...

So please, spare your neighbours and keep your fat lady indoors. Nobody wants to see her.

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[breeminator]

I have a friend who has owned a McLaren 12C, so I want to get him to drive it in the game with my wheel some time. What tyres should I use in the game to accurately match what it has in real life?

Can nobody answer this? How can anyone possibly judge how realistic the amount of grip is if we don't even know how to match the tyres in the game with real life?

 

[VBR]

Can nobody answer this? How can anyone possibly judge how realistic the amount of grip is if we don't even know how to match the tyres in the game with real life?

There was a very rough way to do this in GT5, which I used a lot when running a private club back in 2011. But nothing like that exists for GT Sport. I'd suggest going through all tyres until he finds one that he feels is the nearest, & I'd personally start with Sports tyres first.

 

[photonmonkey]

Just had another blast with various cars around a few tracks and yet again I enjoyed my experience, so much so I didn't want to switch the PS4 off, I havnt had that feeling for a while, normally I will punt around in a few cars just getting a feel and then get bored with the over the top oversteer, let's drift every corner handling, not any more. I will admit I am not a racer, I like driving fast and I enjoy it when it's engaging and that's what I get from this update.

I do get the frustration from the guys that race competitively and are used to one set of physics to have to re-learn all over again to compensate for the changes, but for me the sheer act of driving is edging (ever so slightly) closer to what I get from pcars 2 and AC. I think PD just need to iron out the creases. I think a lot of these woes can be addressed with setup changes, what worked for one set of physics doesn't necessarily work for the new!

I think the fact that you still cannot adjust the tyre pressures shows the limited/basic tyre model that PD are using but other than that I do think this update is a step forward.

 

[photonmonkey]

Just a tip for those struggling with steering on the thumbsticks if you are using a DS4, try the motion steering option. Seriously, I thought it was a joke until I tried it, after they nerfed the stick steering a couple of updates ago I thought I was going to walk away from the game so resorted to giving it a go, once I got used to it there was no looking back, gives me much more control over my inputs

 

[dabz343]

You deny the statistical majority of this poll, deny the rationality from those that do not like 1.39 AND ignore the consensus from top drivers like Tidg, Lightning and others...WOW good luck with that!

 

[photonmonkey]

'top drivers' in a 'game' who are referencing 1.38 physics not the real world.

I will leave it there, good night and God bless, I have a real life to catch up on

 

[dabz343]

Cya at the races!

 

[ScottPuss20]

Seems to me like people with little to no driving- let alone Pro racing experience-are really upset. Throw in an inept understanding of physics and you get a thread like this. There's actual engineers with real degrees ad track time working on this but you feel your more qualified how exactly??

I've done 300 miles in game (don't forget this IS a game people) today. It's better. Cars behave and react more like their real life counterparts. It's a simple as that. If your only reference is another game.. Christ.. I should add it's not perfect, but few things on the entire Earth are. Get used to it.

There is a small adjustment needed somewhere to combat the excessive under-steer, particularly in MR/ RR vehicles, but that's really all that's wrong. (.60° positive rear toe......... hint hint)

Without having real world GT3 race car experience though, I know I couldn't say "well a gt3 should not behave x way b on x tires because in ACC and in my head I think that ..." JUST STOP! Seriously. Stop.

Unbelievable.. the imaginations of some people. They must be having a field day in the offices of Polyphony Digital reading this thread lmao

This is true! People are only going off their experience from other video games rather than real life experience.

 

[Haitauer]

Im still divided on 1.39 - need to see some adjustments before making a judgement. What I think as physics is the basic engine - very foundation of how objects react to forces, not how setups are or tire multipliers mess up things. I really cant test the physics engine without control over weight balance.

Second - i dont think so called "top guys" are really the benchmark for physics. These are the top players who have spend a lot of time to master the game. Muscle memory is a funny thing. When you get used to certain inputs and reactions you think everything different from that is "wrong". Same goes with many basic human thoughts - like say ethics and religion. I dont think the top teams in any racing dicipline like having rule changes as it compromises the investment of resources they have put to current environment. Anyone thinking PDI might actually want to see different participants in world tour or superstars? Many get bored seeing the same names up there.

Even input from real racing drivers is controversial when trying to SIMULATE the real thing without g-forces and chassis movement. Replicate just the steering wheel feel, and you are numb to many of the forces in real life.

So - anyone making these physics conversations a black and white thing is missing the point..

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

This is true! People are only going off their experience from other video games rather than real life experience.

In the real world, when you take a corner you tend to coast over the apex (barring trail braking or heel toe techniques to keep the car balanced) to use all of your traction for steering. This image outlines the components of a turn fairly well...

The yellow text says, "Neutral throttle zone before apex".

This is close to how cornering worked in 1.38. After the 1.39 update the yellow Neutral Zone has been extended almost a full car length past the apex. Again, that's weird. I'm not comparing it to 1.38. All of my discussions have been about the components from the turn and how this update deviates from normal racing theory.

 

[stpatty]

I no longer need traction control to drive the Gr.3 GT-R.

The Gr.3 GT-R is now significantly more understeery than it used to be.

I'm not sure what else to add.

 

[breeminator]

I had a go with the 2015 Civic Type R last night, trying to match it against the 2003 car I used to own. I took the power down to the level of the 2003 car, and fitted Sport Soft tyres, as the real car was fitted with tyres at the grippy end of the spectrum for normal road car tyres.

The one thing that stood out to me was how willing to oversteer the car was. Again, it feels to me like the weight distribution of the car is having an exaggerated effect, providing a lot of grip at the front end, and much less grip at the rear. In the real car, I can't recall ever once having the back end slide, yet it was very easy to make it slide in the game.

 

[dabz343]

This is close to how cornering worked in 1.38. After the 1.39 update the yellow Neutral Zone has been extended almost a full car length past the apex. Again, that's weird. I'm not comparing it to 1.38. All of my discussions have been about the components from the turn and how this update deviates from normal racing theory.

Excellent analysis, thanks for sharing that illustration.

 

[mirial]

In the real world, when you take a corner you tend to coast over the apex (barring trail braking or heel toe techniques to keep the car balanced) to use all of your traction for steering. This image outlines the components of a turn fairly well...

The yellow text says, "Neutral throttle zone before apex".

This is close to how cornering worked in 1.38. After the 1.39 update the yellow Neutral Zone has been extended almost a full car length past the apex. Again, that's weird. I'm not comparing it to 1.38. All of my discussions have been about the components from the turn and how this update deviates from normal racing theory.

The mid-corner to exit understeer just doesn't makes sense in update 1.39. In 1.39 we now have acceptable rotation whilst trail braking, which in theory should set the car up for a tighter line on exit with which to get on the power a bit earlier and harder, which should lessen power oversteer, but PD have completely cancelled out one piece of good work with a bad piece for reasons unknown, which has led to speculation by myself such as a fix for unexpected rear tyre wear prior to release with the increased rotation.

 

[Groundfish]

If you guys want to be specific. Since you’re all about detail, you should discuss a specific car and corner.

All this specifics and whining before and now you want to apply a cookie cutter approach as if all corners are the same?

You are better than that.

 

[Hoopzah]

I think you missed your own paragraph

Yeaaa... I missed my own words.... your making a great argument. /endsarcasm
And quoting an oompa-loompa dressed up as a business man.. seriously??

It's a clear comparison with real life cars you have not driven.

As an on again off again motorsport enthusiast and automotive technician who drives hundreds of miles every weekend to hit the asphalt, as well as having been behind the wheel of literally *thousands* of cars in my lifetime- when I say "cars behave and react as their real life counterparts BUT it's not perfect" I'm just saying it's closer to reality than it was before. Simple to understand.

The biggest issue now imho is the default/ stock (if one can call it stock) suspension tuning. Almost everything people are griping about could be averted by allowing suspension changes in Sport mode.. at least temporarily, until PD dials everything back in themselves. That'd be great.

Now with that out of the way; you completely missed the point of what I said, (which is the idiocy of comparing the FIA spec GT3 models physics of one game to GT Sport without ever sitting in a GT3 machine) to make an argument, which I'm not going to entertain any longer.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Now with that out of the way; you completely missed the point of what I said, (which is the idiocy of comparing the FIA spec GT3 models physics of one game to GT Sport without ever sitting in a GT3 machine) to make an argument, which I'm not going to entertain any longer.

I do not know of any instances with a real GT3 driver comparing GTS to real world but there is a video of real life GT3 driver Nicki Thiim doing a comparison with the new ACC game and yes he does race these cars in real life.

He does say that ACC does a really good job on the physics and being he drives these cars for a living in the real world I would tend to say he does have the actual real world experience to where his opinion would hold some value.

Perhaps using his opinions and then comparing the differences from the physics in the new ACC game and seeing where they differ with the GT3 cars in GTS could give an indicator as to how close or far off GTS is in reality to its own physics.

The guy is a trip to watch but he gives a more condensed opinion from about the 2 hour, 15min mark if you do not want to watch the whole thing.

 

[Hoopzah]

I'll def take a watch.
There a couple of Japanese YouTube videos of drivers making comparisons but 1) I don't speak that language and 2) they are no where near as long as this.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I do not know of any instances with a real GT3 driver comparing GTS to real world but there is a video of real life GT3 driver Nicki Thiim doing a comparison with the new ACC game and yes he does race these cars in real life.

He does say that ACC does a really good job on the physics and being he drives these cars for a living in the real world I would tend to say he does have the actual real world experience to where his opinion would hold some value.

Perhaps using his opinions and then comparing the differences from the physics in the new ACC game and seeing where they differ with the GT3 cars in GTS could give an indicator as to how close or far off GTS is in reality to its own physics.

The guy is a trip to watch but he gives a more condensed opinion from about the 2 hour, 15min mark if you do not want to watch the whole thing.

I watched some of it and generally he's complaining about the understeer in ACC. He blames the cars for the understeer, but he doesn't know that the understeer physics are sort of a known complaint in ACC. Listen to his throttle input in the real world car versus the cars in AAC. In the real world car he pushes down the throttle aggressively from the apex. In AAC, he complains about the understeer and gradually begins to wait before he applies throttle on the exit to compensate. On some exits he is waiting till he's 2/3rds across the track before applying heavy throttle. He even makes a joke about "doing it Senna style" and begins rapidly feathering the throttle on the exit to reduce the understeer.

Again, the whole time he's blaming the various cars but we know it's the game. I know there's an element of, "only hearing what we want to hear" here but his criticisms of the cars in ACC match our criticisms of the 1.39 update.

 

[photonmonkey]

So let me get this right you are saying that GT Sport physics for the GT3 cars are basically in the same ballpark as ACC?

 

[Lazybike]

To be honest I've got used to the new physics now..

 

[Tidgney]

What makes the "top guys" more competent to compare 1.39 physics to real life?? All pro drivers like D Perrel??
Btw, in Davids vid, there is no mention if the new physics are worse, he did thou say, that 1,38 with the ridiculous shiftlock turns was stupid.
Something like that.
Havent post here because, this is classic case of "oil wars thread" and this will never stop. Have used that time to adapt the new physics on the game...

So please, spare your neighbours and keep your fat lady indoors. Nobody wants to see her.

I would say most people were waiting for Davids video as he's the 1 of only a few people who race GT Sport and actively race in GT3 in real life (Mentioned that earlier in the thread), Lucas would also be another person I'd love to hear his views. Davids video was fantastic but asked a bit more about feedback in the comments on his video and he does think there's to much under-steer which is the general consensus I think. While I've tried a few race cars in real life, never a GT3 car so I can never give a real life vs in game opinion. Although when I tried out a clio cup car (Which isn't in the game but is FWD) I still didn't have this much understeer in that, and they set them to understeer so no one bins it off. I'm also sure I was close to some form of limit as I had a full belter of oversteer at one point which was fun as you plant your foot to get out of that one .

One thing I have found though is I can still do "shiftlock" turning with the R8. While I couldn't do it with tyre wear on as it would wear the tyres to much, with it off you can still do it and it's more effective now because we have more understeer. I still do dislike the new physics at the moment though, the Audi R8 is a complete handful under braking now and not nice to drive. La Sarthe for example the rear is coming out the instant I go on the brakes which is to extreme so I'm finding myself doing all sorts of techniques to control that.

 

[RacingFan1]

I havent found any changes at all with1.39 physics if you ask me....

BTW, I recently felt that if you dont reduce many gears when braking, you brake better, am I the only one?