Presidential Election: 2012

[Dennisch]

How many of these candidates will actually be on the ballot in November?

Clickie.

There are some interesting people running for President.

 

[Omnis]

The only one with ballot access in all 50 states is Gary Johnson. Virgil Goode is the 2nd option.

And the Objectivist Party has to be a cult.

 

[Dennisch]

I like this one.

Jack Fellure For President of the United States 2012

JACK FELLURE IS :
For : A National Return to reading God’s Book, the Holy Bible. This includes teaching the true Christian history and heritage of our nation in the public schools. It also includes bringing voluntary prayer and Bible reading back into the public schools.
Against : Abortion, and especially paying for abortions with government funding.
For : Leaders whose decisions are governed by what’s right or wrong rather than what is politically expedient.
Against : The Liquor Industry which is a detriment to our nation. Alcohol is America’s number one drug problem.
For : Balancing the Federal Budget. The Government must quit spending more than its income.
Against : Continuing to permit criminals to go unpunished.


For : Making Homosexuality illegal. This will stop much of the AIDS plague.
Against : Allowing Anti-American organizations, such as the American Civil Liberties Union and the Communist Party to continue their destruction of this nation.
For : Making Prisons into places of punishment instead of leisure.
Against : Moving our jobs and industrial production to foreign nations.
For : Capital Punishment. God Almighty mandated it.
Against : Every movement, effort, and person that would remove God from our national currency and declarations.
For : Getting the United States out of the United Nations (UN) and getting the UN out of the United States.
Against : The continued moral destruction of our society by the television and entertainment media.
For : Reducing the Tax Burden of the working American.
Against : The New World Order, Pornography, and Gun Control.

Every basic truth and fundamental philosophy required for proper survival here and hereafter is contained in the Holy Bible. IT’S THE GREATEST SINGLE BOOK EVER WRITTEN ON HUMAN GOVERNMENT

 

[TVC]

Now look at every promise he made in 2008.

Since you don't want to live through WW3, you might like to look at the one about withdrawing troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and closing Guantanamo. You'll like it, I promise.

The president doesn't have complete control over the government, and that is a good thing.

Presidential candidates don't have access to as much information as the actual president does. They may not know the full story until they are elected, just as we likely do not know about confidential information until years after the event took place and it is declassified. (though that could take anywhere from a few hours to decades)

What a candidate says during their campaign should never be taken as a promise that will happen, just something they hope to do. And I'm sure he wanted to and would do everything he said he would if he could. But what the presidents hopes to do is not always the best decision or one that Congress with agree with.

 

[DK]

I like this one.

Jack Fellure For President of the United States 2012

JACK FELLURE:
Every basic truth and fundamental philosophy required for proper survival here and hereafter is contained in the Holy Bible. IT’S THE GREATEST SINGLE BOOK EVER WRITTEN ON HUMAN GOVERNMENT

I had doublecheck that I wasn't reading The Onion.

 

[Famine]

But that's anecdotal evidence.

Yes. The existence of an organisation called the National Black Republican Association is "anecdotal evidence" against an uncited poll saying that "0% of black people intend to vote for the republican party"...

Wait, what?


Have you heard of Herman Cain, or is he "anecdotal evidence" too?

How about Tim Scott? Allen West? Condoleeza Rice?

The president doesn't have complete control over the government, and that is a good thing.

Presidential candidates don't have access to as much information as the actual president does. They may not know the full story until they are elected, just as we likely do not know about confidential information until years after the event took place and it is declassified. (though that could take anywhere from a few hours to decades)

What a candidate says during their campaign should never be taken as a promise that will happen, just something they hope to do. And I'm sure he wanted to and would do everything he said he would if he could. But what the presidents hopes to do is not always the best decision or one that Congress with agree with.

Of this everyone is well aware. However Obama made those pledges and failed to honour them. Not only did he fail to honour them, he didn't even manage to maintain the status quo, putting more US troops into more theatres of war in the Middle East.

So what we have is a guy making promises he know he can't keep (we know that, so one assumes he would too) to get himself power. Sound like a politician to you? Or

Obama seems a straightforward and goodhearted man to me, almost non politician like.

 

[Dennisch]

To help Obama a bit.

The world hasn't actually got a better place since he took office. So he was kinda forced to send the troops overseas.

And promises from a politician?

Gullible people.


Edit:

And to give lalaurentide a bit of support, I too really hope that Obama stays in office, because I can't see Romney doing it any better. He is the kind of man, in my opinion, who will piss off the world even more.
And as this upcoming election is for the most powerful man in the world, I rather see laid back Obama, with his lies, than Richbitch Romney, who already is pissing on half of the Americans.

 

[TVC]

Of this everyone is well aware. However Obama made those pledges and failed to honour them. Not only did he fail to honour them, he didn't even manage to maintain the status quo, putting more US troops into more theatres of war in the Middle East.

So what we have is a guy making promises he know he can't keep (we know that, so one assumes he would too) to get himself power. Sound like a politician to you? Or

Sure he is a politician, you don't become president without being a politician. I think both ideas are partially correct.

It's not always his decision to make, and even if it is his advisers may sway him against what he had promised in the past. It's not just the president sitting at his desk making decisions, it's him sitting down with other top officials and deciding what to do next.

And is there really any other way to do it?

What they say during their campaign is their ideal and what they believe in. They have to say something because otherwise people won't know who they are voting for.

I do agree that it is bad when someone says something then doesn't do it, but it's just a problem with the system (and not necessarily a bad thing). You can't campaign without saying your position on something (or what you want to happen), otherwise you won't get any votes.

I think the problem is politicians say they will do something before they have all the information. What they really mean is they hope or believe in something. Whether or not they are able to do it or it is even the best decision to make is another story.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Now look at every promise he made in 2008.

What President doesn't do that?

 

[FoolKiller]

So what you say, black Americans either all thinks the same way or are all racists? The polls showed 0% of African-American will vote republican, it's a fact not an assumption, but let me change that for you 99.99% of black people will vote democrat. That means poor, middle-class, rich, educated, non-educated, almost every black person regardless of his/her background and situation will vote democrat. And under Obama they are the community that has improved the least economically. That is telling.

I did not say they all think a certain same way. You did. I said it was not that, and showed evidence of it, never mind that the Republican primary had a black candidate.

I do not understand your statement regarding them hearing the N-word. It seems like you attempting to apply some form of racist label to Republicans.

And yes, saying I am voting for the black man because he is black (your race does not matter) is racist. It is making a value judgment based purely on race. It is the same when people won't vote for Obama because he is black.

Now let me point out your fallacy in quoting the poll. Understanding statistics is important here. Unless your poll asked 100% of black people how they will vote it is not fact. I am willing to bet if you go and look at the actual poll, and not some quote of it in a news story that you will find there is an error rate of +/-5%. That means that as many as 5% might vote for Romney, but the poll is not very comprehensive. Polls are roughly a few hundred people. A few thousand at most, but these political polls need to be completed and compiled in very short timeframes, so we are most likely looking at just a few hundred, and of those few hundred only a small amount (15%-20% based on average US demographics) were black. So now we may have less than 100 black people in that poll. Would you say that is a proper representation of all black people? And this is without looking at other data, such as where they live, their individual situations before and after Obama became president, and even their parents' political affiliations.

Also, be careful of trusting political polls and calling them fact. Exit polls said Bush should have lost both his elections by a massive amount. When he beat Kerry the media spent weeks asking how their own polls could be so wrong. Because they had to be finished and ready for reporting by 6:00 PM. They had very few people who were working day jobs in their polls. It was mostly members of that 47% Romney was talking about being unable to convince to vote Republican. It's the same reason why protests and politicsl rallies at noon on a Wednesday seem to be full of nut cases, no matter the side they represent. The normal people are at work.

But that's anecdotal evidence.

So is a single political poll small enough to be completed, compiled, and reported on in less than 24 hours.

Obama seems a straightforward and goodhearted man to me, almost non politician like.

That explains everyone being allowed to keep our current insurance coverage, just like he promised, or not. That explains his fight to stop The Patriot Act and end it's horrible violations of civil liberties, or not, as Obama signed its extension, signed the NDAA, had a US soldier detained for 14 months without charges in conditions investigators found to be cruel and unusual, and has used executive order to order the assassinations of US citizens as part of his secret kill list.

Now before someone says something about me expecting Republicans to have been better; the thing I truly found disturbing about that kill list is that when it's existence was leaked John McCain spoke out against the White House, not for having a secret kill list, but for having its existence be leaked. Republicans had no issues with executive powers being used to secretly kill people. They had an issue with it becoming publicly known.

attacking Iran so he can keep the american public scared with a new axis of evil so everyone overlooks the internal malpractices

You are right. Obama does not beat the war drum with Iran. He has Secretary Hilary Clinton do that for him.

As a European i realy pray Obama get's the second term, as i don't want to live through world war 3.

Yes, hope for the Nobel Peace Prize winner who has secretly ordered assassinations, because he tries to keep his atrocities quiet to avoid World War III.

As an American, I see Obama for what he is. No different than the last guy.

 

[Famine]

Sure he is a politician, you don't become president without being a politician. I think both ideas are partially correct.

It's not always his decision to make, and even if it is his advisers may sway him against what he had promised in the past. It's not just the president sitting at his desk making decisions, it's him sitting down with other top officials and deciding what to do next.

And is there really any other way to do it?

What they say during their campaign is their ideal and what they believe in. They have to say something because otherwise people won't know who they are voting for.

I do agree that it is bad when someone says something then doesn't do it, but it's just a problem with the system (and not necessarily a bad thing). You can't campaign without saying your position on something (or what you want to happen), otherwise you won't get any votes.

I think the problem is politicians say they will do something before they have all the information. What they really mean is they hope or believe in something. Whether or not they are able to do it or it is even the best decision to make is another story.

What President doesn't do that?

I fear you've both missed the point by a wide margin. Let's revisit it.

Obama seems a straightforward and goodhearted man to me, almost non politician like.

Now look at every promise he made in 2008.

Since you don't want to live through WW3, you might like to look at the one about withdrawing troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and closing Guantanamo. You'll like it, I promise.

The user doesn't think Obama seems like a politician. I point out that he acts exactly like a politician. The two of you make posts along the lines of "well that's what you expect from politicians"...

Given that you're both reinforcing my point, I'm not sure what else needs to be added.

 

[TVC]

I fear you've both missed the point by a wide margin. Let's revisit it.



The user doesn't think Obama seems like a politician. I point out that he acts exactly like a politician. The two of you make posts along the lines of "well that's what you expect from politicians"...

Given that you're both reinforcing my point, I'm not sure what else needs to be added.

I saw that but I didn't know that was the main topic of the discussion. I thought we were discussing more what was said before the election and what was done after.

On Mister Dog's post, it's really a mixture of both, at least from my perspective. Neither view is 100% correct.

 

[Famine]

I saw that but I didn't know that was the main topic of the discussion. I thought we were discussing more what was said before the election and what was done after.

That would appear to be an exercise in futility. Few politicians manage to make pre-election promises stick - though few manage to do the exact opposite of their promises for so many of them.

On Mister Dog's post, it's really a mixture of both, at least from my perspective. Neither view is 100% correct.

I'm sure everyone sees themselves as good hearted and straightforward..

A straightforward person doesn't pretend they can achieve what they doubt they can achieve. A good-hearted person doesn't knowingly lie to mislead. A politician does both.

Obama made some pre-election promises he either doubted he could achieve or which he knew he couldn't. Is that straightforward and good-hearted, or is that a politician?


And no, Romney is neither better nor worse in that regard, save for not having a track-record of pretence and lying in the Oval Office. He might have managed that by 2016.

 

[Danoff]

Neither view is 100% correct.

I think there is more than enough evidence in the recent posts in this thread that this statement:

Obama seems a straightforward and goodhearted man to me, almost non politician like.

...is 100% in opposition to Obama's statements and actions while in office.

 

[Quackjack]

Either way they both want war with Iran and that scares me.

 

[Danoff]

Either way they both want war with Iran and that scares me.

What's the difference between the two on anything? I mean, I can list some differences, but they're not major. Romney is slightly better for the economy, but I doubt anything will actually get done by either president on anything (and that's good because most of what they want to do seems stupid).

 

[JediRage]

Don't worry Americans, you are not the only ones faced with a lack of choice or faced with a pseudo-choice. It's like this almost everywhere.

There's no moderation left in politics anymore.

 

[FoolKiller]

I think there is more than enough evidence in the recent posts in this thread that this statement:

...is 100% in opposition to Obama's statements and actions while in office.

In mister dog's defense though, he does live in Spain. He does not get the 24/7 news coverage we do. I am sure that Spain has their own stuff to report on. And to be honest I can't tell you much about Spain's politics. What mister dog likely sees is Obama give a speech and meet with European leaders on occasion. If that was all we saw of the White House we would also believe that Obama has zero interest in war in Iran. I highly doubt he gets coverage of Secretary Clinton's press conferences. Heck, most Americans don't pay enough attention to see that Obama's Secretary of State is beating the war drums with Iran while he talks about peaceful deals with them. Half of those that do see it probably see it through The Daily Show's 'Do you guys talk at all?' segment.

Now imagine all you ever saw of Obama was him giving a speech in his folksy kind of voice. He has a way of talking that just really brings a since of sincerity. If you aren't fact-checking in your head you would believe this man is nothing but truthful. The man is a great orator. He can polish a turd like no other. This is a man who could have achieved anything pre-Internet. Even watching the old videos from his pot-smoking days in college you see a man who could command a room by simply speaking.

From just that perspective I can see someone thinking he is a straightforward and good hearted man. And honestly, it is a shame that he isn't. I could respect a man who I disagree with if he were being honest.

And since I brought up the history with pot. His own book discuses him doing pot and a little blow. Today he defends laws that, had he been arrested and convicted of, would guarantee he never would have become president. He now supports a legal system which can possibly destroy the future of kids doing the exact same things he did when he was their age.

Just another thing to add under the not straightforward list.

 

[BobK]

So in addition to being a liar he's also a hypocrite?

Or, in other words, he's a politician. Do as I say, not as I do.

 

[FoolKiller]

So in addition to being a liar he's also a hypocrite?

Or, in other words, he's a politician. Do as I say, not as I do.

But: Hope and Change!

 

[Liquid]

From the user who brought you "The Real Mitt Romney".

 

[Quackjack]

Romney's foreign policy plan seems to be "let's do everything we can to piss off Iran/China"

 

[Pupik]

Don't worry Americans, you are not the only ones faced with a lack of choice or faced with a pseudo-choice. It's like this almost everywhere.

There's no moderation left in politics anymore.

They're either too boring, don't get party support, accused of wafflehausing by some political action committe, or a mole finds/puts a skeleton in their closet.

 

[JediRage]

They're either too boring, don't get party support, accused of wafflehausing by some political action committe, or a mole finds/puts a skeleton in their closet.

True. Politics has become more of a reality TV show now.

 

[TheCracker]

Don't worry Americans, you are not the only ones faced with a lack of choice or faced with a pseudo-choice. It's like this almost everywhere.

There's no moderation left in politics anymore.

It's like being offered Coke or Pepsi, when what you really want is Um Bongo.

 

[Famine]

The two-party system summed up in one gif:

 

[Danoff]

Nice.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I personally think Democracy in idea is perfect, but actually implementing them requires dreaded political parties. And money. Lot's of money.

 

[Danoff]

Pure democracy is a terrible idea (though better than some worse ideas). A constitutionally limited representative republic is the best government system that has thus far been invented. The problem we've run into is that we're no longer constitutionally limited.

 

[sumbrownkid]

And it is a system that is getting clogged with too much cholesterol called politics.