Presidential Election: 2012

  • Thread starter Omnis
  • 3,780 comments
  • 157,110 views
But what does that have to do with Ron Paul? Obama, Gingrich, Romney and Santorum won't change a thing, and with any of those 4 it's almost a matter of time until there's a war with Iran. Paul is the only candidate who is actually going to lower the military spending, his plan is to get the troops home as soon as possible, and cut military spending. Do you have a problem with that or something?
That is actually one of the few things I slightly agree with him about. The US spends too much on military and war. But the fact we spend money in that way means we can afford to keep exploring space, which means Newt's idea isn't that crazy. It isnt the greatest idea though. :lol: Paul's other ideas would render the US incapable of doing anything financially, and ruin a lot of lives while waiting on free markets to help the millions of people that need it. That is why he is crazy, not because he is for a smaller military.

Edit- Funny coincidence, the middle class started getting poorer when the government started spending less on NASA.
 
Last edited:
Sadly, the cost of war is not part of the DoD budget.

It wasn't relevant to the conversation. Theft is not a reason to not help.

Still, you are ignoring what was posted in favor of what you would have liked it to have been .
 
But the fact we spend money in that way means we can afford to keep exploring space,
But we are still exploring space now. Whether it be something as old and far as Voyager I, something that is moderately old and checking out the moons of Saturn like Cassini, or something as new as the Mars Rover Curiosity, we are still exploring space in ways no manned spacecraft could. I mean, Curiosity was only launched a week ago and it is already doing science.

To spend money on a moon base means to not fund projects that could produce discoveries long after any astronaut is dead, or spend more money that we don't have.

EDIT:
During his G+ Q&A a woman asks President Obama a question regarding H1B visas being available when people like her husband are looking for work. He mostly ignores the general question about the H1B visas to say the information he has says there are plenty of jobs for her husband. He even tells her to send in her husband's resume and he will see what the issue is.



I hope he was right and not just ducking the H1B visas topic.

But his administration doesn't have a great record of keeping informed of what businesses seem to be doing, as his stimulus funded green economy companies seem to have a problem staying out of bankruptcy.

Solyndra - $475 million
Ener1 - $118 million
Amonix - $5.9 million
SpectraWatt - $500,000
 
Last edited:
Edit- Funny coincidence, the middle class started getting poorer when the government started spending less on NASA.

Well, putting an astronaut or base on the moon is just an ego thing at this point. NASA's unmanned program is doing amazing work right now, just because you can't see rockets going to Mars doesn't mean there's nothing being done on space exploration.

Also, how do you slightly agree with Paul on the military? Should the US Gov't expand the war front? Cut it in half? Spend 3/4 of what they do now? I don't know how you can "slightly" agree with a man who wants to get the hell out of foreign countries and bring the soldiers home, while saving hundreds of billions (if not trillions) of dollars in the process.

And have you actually read Paul's published plan upon becoming president? It's not as if he's going to show up in the first year and just torch everything and destroy everything that's publicly funded. It's a gradual progression that would allow time to ease the transition, there's also that he won't be a dictator president and try to force pet legislation through. He's not going to be able to pass a bill through Congress yet to cut a lot of these programs. It will take time, it will be gradual, and it will likely not be anywhere near as chaotic as you think. In fact, I'd imagine it would work very well and damn near seamlessly. You think that private businessmen in the US are going to leave an education market untapped for long? Of course not.
 
But we are still exploring space now. Whether it be something as old and far as Voyager I, something that is moderately old and checking out the moons of Saturn like Cassini, or something as new as the Mars Rover Curiosity, we are still exploring space in ways no manned spacecraft could. I mean, Curiosity was only launched a week ago and it is already doing science.

To spend money on a moon base means to not fund projects that could produce discoveries long after any astronaut is dead, or spend more money that we don't have.
I know the US currently does an amount of exploring, but we don't concentrate nearly as much effort as we did pre-1975. I am also not advocating Newt's idea, specifically anyways, but at least his thinking is positive. Contrasted with Ron Paul's entire ideology which is far more crazy than Newt's single idea. The devastation that would ensue if he had his way would be the demise of the US.

Don't get me wrong, any politician that subscribes to supply side economics should be shunned from society is still my opinion.
Well, putting an astronaut or base on the moon is just an ego thing at this point. NASA's unmanned program is doing amazing work right now, just because you can't see rockets going to Mars doesn't mean there's nothing being done on space exploration.
I never said anything complimentary towards Newt's specific moon base idea, the opposite actually, but his way of thinking I do like in this case. And I didn't say there was no space exploration going on.

Also, how do you slightly agree with Paul on the military? Should the US Gov't expand the war front? Cut it in half? Spend 3/4 of what they do now? I don't know how you can "slightly" agree with a man who wants to get the hell out of foreign countries and bring the soldiers home, while saving hundreds of billions (if not trillions) of dollars in the process.
I don't agree with the current war. I don't really agree with the military having bases all around the world. But I wouldn't want him in charge of the US's military. So I said slightly agree.
And have you actually read Paul's published plan upon becoming president? It's not as if he's going to show up in the first year and just torch everything and destroy everything that's publicly funded. It's a gradual progression that would allow time to ease the transition, there's also that he won't be a dictator president and try to force pet legislation through. He's not going to be able to pass a bill through Congress yet to cut a lot of these programs. It will take time, it will be gradual, and it will likely not be anywhere near as chaotic as you think. In fact, I'd imagine it would work very well and damn near seamlessly.
I should vote for the guy that will gradually destruct the country. Good advice! In my opinion, his way of thinking has no place in being a public servant.
You think that private businessmen in the US are going to leave an education market untapped for long? Of course not.
...And there is a large portion of the population not affording that private education. Some kids can't afford a lunch much less a tuition.
 
Last edited:
...And there is a large portion of the population not affording that private education. Some kids can't afford a lunch much less a tuition.
Luckily Walmart raked in about $500 billion last year to help invest in their education, or at least donate a few bucks to some charities or organizations or actual schools.
 
The devastation that would ensue if he had his way would be the demise of the US.
Please explain. And I mean more than: "Republican ideology is bad, mmmkay?" Go to Ron Paul's site (you can even use his books if you want), take his individual points and explain, without using derogatory lowest-denominator ter

ms like "crazy" and "stupid," why his point of view on specific issues will lead to the demise of the US.

...And there is a large portion of the population not affording that private education. Some kids can't afford a lunch much less a tuition.
And I guess there would never be the Dollar General equivalent of schools in a widely privatized arena? Come on, even you have to admit that the private industry could provide crappy schools for far less than the government currently does. I know that I can send my daughter to decently rated private schools for less than it would cost her to go to one of the local public schools, because I have looked. And I know I could afford it out of pocket because it would be cheaper than our daycare costs are now. I can only imagine how much cheaper it would be if the four local public schools had to compete to get their money.

And before you respond: I know, businessmen are too greedy to run budget targeted businesses and I am crazy to even think that would ever happen. No other industry has ever seen it, have they? Well, they have but they are different.


Not that any of this has to do with the presidential election, because public education is an institution run on the state level. All a president can do, in accordance with Congress (although this bit gets missed), is throw money at states for doing what they want, like a drunk at a strip club. Even if you don't think education should be run on the state level, it is, and what I described above is how it works now.


EDIT: I meant to respond to this:

I know the US currently does an amount of exploring, but we don't concentrate nearly as much effort as we did pre-1975.
We have something headed toward or orbiting around nearly every major body in our solar system. Some of them are 30+ years old, but that is because space is big, really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. And on top of that we have so many telescopes, radars, and whatchamascopes pointing out beyond our solar system that every new item we find gets its picture taken five different ways. They are talking about taking a picture of an actual black hole in our galaxy.

Do, or did, we focus on putting men into space the way we once did? No. But we don't go sailing for new lands either. We have discovered most of what men can safely and affordably explore in the water. Now we use robots to look beyond that. Space exploration is the same way, only our current technological limits are much more limiting in comparison. But in the end every unmanned object that goes off into the abyss does have one question behind everything it looks at, "Can humans go there too one day?" Curiosity wasn't testing solar radiation to protect itself. It was testing so we had information we can use to protect men who go to Mars one day.
 
Last edited:
McDonald's Academy. They already have the Ronald McDonald House...why not take it a step further?
 
Please explain. And I mean more than: "Republican ideology is bad, mmmkay?" Go to Ron Paul's site (you can even use his books if you want), take his individual points and explain, without using derogatory lowest-denominator terms like "crazy" and "stupid," why his point of view on specific issues will lead to the demise of the US.
Free markets fail.

And I guess there would never be the Dollar General equivalent of schools in a widely privatized arena?
Maybe, but not only is that unfair but there are many that aren't even going to Dollar General.
 
Dapper, have you actually read Ron Paul's published plan? Like, actually read everything, analyzed the statistics, and thought about it? I don't think you really understand what he's proposing. Also, he wouldn't be able to just destroy every public program in 1 day. Paul supporters (myself included) have a bit of an idyllic view of what he would be able to do. His detractors think that he'll destroy america in 4 years and that everybody who doesn't make 6 figures will end up living in a ghetto and starving.

The reality is somewhere in the middle. Paul will bring the troops home, try to bring more domestic freedom to the US, and ultimately probably pass a few things, and have some of his ideas (gold standards, legalize all drugs for example) never pass through congress.

Personally, I think Paul would be the best president because I would trust him with the presidential veto. Things like SOPA, NDAA or extending the PATRIOT act would simply not happen with Paul in the oval office. He won't force his ideals and bully them through congress, but the complete and utter disregard for the constitution would stop under a Paul presidency. The sky won't fall, nor would Paul be able to perform miracles. I would have infinitely more confidence in him than Obama or any of the other GOP hopefuls. Go with anyone but Paul, and there will be another war (Iran), and the downward spiral of spending your way out of debt (lol) will just continue, and ultimately it's my generation that will get screwed (In Canada too).
 
Dapper
That is far too grave.

How about some rational thought or explanations behind your semantics?

I also am shocked that you're seemingly so happy with the status quo, which is what you'll get with anyone but Paul.
 
Free markets fail.
And once again I ask myself, "Why bother talking with him?" I'll save you the trouble of just disappearing in the middle of a debate and end this charade now. I'd rather debate whether Mr. Noodle or his brother Mr. Noodle is the better Mr. Noodle with my daughter.

8883717461337564.jpg


(Everyone knows it was Mr. Noodle's brother, Mr. Noodle, aka Michael Jeter, that was best)
 
How about some rational thought or explanations behind your semantics?
Free markets are a bad idea. The US free market has kept most American's wages stagnant, or lower, for a generation while making a very few very rich. Also, having our wealth based on something another country could take is a bad idea.
I also am shocked that you're seemingly so happy with the status quo, which is what you'll get with anyone but Paul.
You keep thinking I say or think stuff I didn't say or think. Saying Paul will make things worse is not saying I love Obama. However, I'd prefer the status quo over the utter devastation that Paul would cause.
 
In my opinion, his way of thinking has no place in being a public servant.

Yeah, who'd want a public servant who thinks his job is to serve you, rather than spend all of your money trying to rule you and extend his remit to do so?
 
Free markets are a bad idea. The US free market has kept most American's wages stagnant, or lower, for a generation while making a very few very rich. Also, having our wealth based on something another country could take is a bad idea.

The US doesn't have a free market. And how do you know the wages have been kept stagnant? Did you follow every person to make sure their wage hasn't increased?
 
Last edited:
Famine, Ron Paul does not serve people in any regard. He serves JC and God-given rights. The old fart actually says that himself. :lol:
I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/statement-of-faith/


It is God Who gave us life.* As He is free, so are those He created in His image.* Our rights to life and liberty are inalienable.
He stands for rights that do not exist! :lol: Ron Paul supporters hail to a guy who believes in imaginary things in the sky, and all of his ideas arise out of him appeasing the imaginary being and what Rights he thinks was given to us by the imaginary thingy... And not one of it's other creatures, just us!:lol:
 
Last edited:
Wow. I don't even know where to start with this guy.

I do.

It's simply not worth the effort to try to converse with anyone who is deliberately obtuse, evasive and offensive. A mockery is made of an otherwise decent forum.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
Dapper, how much effort do you put into being a troll? Honest question.
 
Omnis
Dapper, how much effort do you put into being a troll? Honest question.

Trolling is a desperate attempt to find some sort of mis-placed feeling of self-importance.

So by that, you could see why many people would put in considerable effort into being a troll.
 
Maybe we should instate a voluntary policy in this thread of basically ignoring those who only come in here to post nonsense, and then run away or ignore all factual rebuttals. :lol: After so many cycles of this, surely even dapper is tired of it.
 
Dapper, how much effort do you put into being a troll? Honest question.

You can read the answer next to his user title. Though that's limited to me and thee.

Incidentally, his vote counts as twice as important as yours (FL 660k voters per Electoral College vote; WV 370k voters per Electoral College vote). Scary, isn't it?
 
Dapper, how much effort do you put into being a troll? Honest question.

Much less effort than trying to convince myself Ron Paul is sane.

And I find it rather dumb you say someone is trolling when they're responding on topic in the correct thread. Just because your fav candidate gets all his ideas from mythical beings does not make me a troll.
Scary, isn't it?
That would be Ron Paul's regressive, archaic ideology that is scary.
Someone guided explicitly by JC, and not by the people he/she represents, being in charge of the US is truly scary. :scared:

Maybe we should instate a voluntary policy in this thread of basically ignoring those who only come in here to post nonsense, and then run away or ignore all factual rebuttals. :lol: After so many cycles of this, surely even dapper is tired of it.
I am the only one that post facts. :lol: I even cited Paul himself.
 
Last edited:
Which reminds me, because I don't recall an explanation of it before. What ideology guides you and your ways; forms your ideas on how the world works/how it should work? Many people do, and they differ, so surely you must also have some sort of elegant framework for decision making?
 
Someone guided explicitly by JC, and not by the people he/she represents, being in charge of the US is truly scary. :scared:

Yes, much like the "Christian" Barack Obama. Or the Methodist Christian George Bush. Or the Baptist Christian William Clinton. Or the Episcopal Christian George HW Bush. Or the Presbyterian Christian Ronald Reagan. Or the Baptist Christian Jimmy Carter. Or the Episcopal Christian Gerald Ford. Or the Quaker Richard Nixon. Or the Protestant Christian Lyndon Johnson. Or the Roman Catholic Christian John F. Kennedy. Or the Presbyterian Christian Dwight Eisenhower. Or the Baptist Christian Harry Truman...

Do we need to continue? I have more.

Everyone has a blind spot. Ron Paul's is religious. Barack Obama's is the US Constitution. I know which does least harm.


I am the only one that post facts.

Pity you're the only one that then has to have those facts corrected, by people who aren't even allowed to vote in your election.
 
Someone guided explicitly by JC, and not by the people he/she represents, being in charge of the US is truly scary.

Do you ever recall a President called Jimmy Carter?

Deeply religious, didn't really conflict with his time in office despite his difficult tenure.

And despite that difficult period in office, (It was the late 70s, everybody had it tough), he's one of the most well respected diplomats of our time.

Any theist with sense knowns that their personal beliefs don't conflict with their job.
 
But what does that have to do with Ron Paul? Obama, Gingrich, Romney and Santorum won't change a thing, and with any of those 4 it's almost a matter of time until there's a war with Iran. Paul is the only candidate who is actually going to lower the military spending, his plan is to get the troops home as soon as possible, and cut military spending. Do you have a problem with that or something?

Hi, I don't mean to spark and argument, but I believe you'll find the President is also planning to cut spending on the military, to focus on growth at home.

Is my information out dated? I mean the majority of the candidates were all raving against it for ages, and I don't see why Obama would suddenly say 'actually, we need to further strengthen our military now, the situation has changed, we're not cutting budgets to the military.'
 
Back