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[fortbo]

I'm done with this thread...

 

[DrJustice]

The fact that is is too early for SMS to be asking for handouts to develop the second game in the franchise, and they should have waited a couple more months, and fixed the current iteration first.

That's not a fact, that's an opinion, and a pretty uniformed one at that. It has been stated a thousand times already that there's a bunch of developers (40'ish) dedicated to supporting pCARS 1 in the long term. And that's a fact. Sadly, many gamers are oblivious to actual facts.

 

[diesel97]

The fact that is is too early for SMS to be asking for handouts to develop the second game in the franchise, and they should have waited a couple more months, and fixed the current iteration first.

@skazz & @Myles Prower I know it comes with early access to the game, I did the crowdfunding phase for Pcars one. I know exactly what it brings with the entry price. I have been a WMD member for almost 4 years as it is. At the moment it just feels like shift 2 all over again, a game SMS dropped almost as soon as it released. But they where not the only ones to fault for that, as EA was equally to blame for allowing it to be dropped from their support cycle so quickly.

The thing that annoys me the most, is SMS used to make some awesome racing games alongside SimBin. And those games had awesome support and no way near as many issues. It is not as though SMS do not know what they are doing with game development, they just seem to be walking on a very fine tightrope at this particular moment in time. All I am saying is, they should have held off on initiating this new crowdfunding phase until the game breaking bugs in Pcars1 where fixed.

I just hope this time that SMS will actually listen to the people informing them during the dev cycle about the bugs, and actually fix them. Instead of listening to the people who are kissing their backsides like last time. I tried to speak out about the issues myself, and I got nothing but insults from some others in the WMD member circle. It was damn near impossible to say that Pcars had problems because of this, and ended up making people who wanted to bring them to light be quiet instead.

If you have 4 years with WMD then you could not have missed the part of supporting Pcars1 for 2 years . Are they lying them ? Maybe you never took part in 4 years that why you missed this or you just left it out of your wall of text on purpose.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Bold move announcing a sequel when there are so many problems with the current game which has one been out less than two months. Don't get me wrong, I love Project CARS, and think it has a **** ton of potential. The problem is the game is plagued with bugs, and I haven't played it in weeks because I keep getting freezes and crashes and it bums me out, because the game's great when you're not dealing with that ****. I would've thought after their last bug fix turned out to not even fix half the stuff they said they'd fixed, that they would have held off on any announcements until the most major bugs in the current game were properly fixed. Otherwise they risk giving people the impression that they don't care too much once the game's out and people have bought it. I know that isn't the case, and they've said they'll support the game for two years, but how many people will believe them?

 

[Furinkazen]

To all people complaining and crying I leave you this.

 

[Ialyrn]

That's not a fact, that's an opinion, and a pretty uniformed one at that. It has been stated a thousand times already that there's a bunch of developers (40'ish) dedicated to supporting pCARS 1 in the long term. And that's a fact. Sadly, many gamers are oblivious to actual facts, being to busy with conspiracy theories, good old bashing and other

If you have 4 years with WMD then you could not have missed the part of supporting Pcars1 for 2 years . Are they lying them ? Maybe you never took part in 4 years that why you missed this or you just left it out of your wall of text on purpose.

A team of 40 staying back to fix pcars1 is all well and good, and no I didn't miss that on either of the forums. I just don't pass around insider information until SMS have made their public announcements on that particular subject. But with how many issues the game currently has across all 3 platforms; the entire team should be focused on fixing it first. What us as gamers need right now isnt SMS jumping directly to a new iteration of their game, that could have waited a little longer. I am not saying they need to wait as long as TD or PD do, as they build their games with the assistance of microsoft or sony. I just think they should have waited longer before making this public, and shifting the majority of staff over to Pcars 2.

This is why so many bugs still exist in Pcars as it is, because anyone who dares speak out over SMS and their game get jumped on by the self imposed entourage.

 

[diesel97]

A team of 40 staying back to fix pcars1 is all well and good, and no I didn't miss that on either of the forums. I just don't pass around insider information until SMS have made their public announcements on that particular subject. But with how many issues the game currently has across all 3 platforms; the entire team should be focused on fixing it first. What us as gamers need right now isnt SMS jumping directly to a new iteration of their game, that could have waited a little longer. I am not saying they need to wait as long as TD or PD do, as they build their games with the assistance of microsoft or sony. I just think they should have waited longer before making this public, and shifting the majority of staff over to Pcars 2.

This is why so many bugs still exist in Pcars as it is, because anyone who dares speak out over SMS and their game get jumped on by the self imposed entourage.

You do know that people have diferent titles for a reason ? Not all 130+ workers fix bugs . The more you type the more it show's that you were not involved.

 

[Jawehawk]

If its his intention to make a racing sim then he can have my money because I buy racing sims, all your comments and points have followed the usual knee jerk trend which has followed this subject of "they are instantly abandoning PCARS1" and that they are trying to take all your money for the annual sequels! And as a result have retorted to trolling and throwing around garbage information.

Then clearly you haven't read them properly. My problem doesn't lie with them making a sequel. That's fine. Although announcing it this early, is a poor move. Espicially given how broken their current game appears to be. My problem lies with them asking people to fund their games, rather than having them pay when the product is finished (fact). It lies with them withholding content to use as pre-order incentives and limited edition exclusives (fact). It lies with them announcing cars way ahead of release, and then selling them as DLC (fact). And last but not least, it lies with the growing number of people reporting having been banned from a forum that they paid to be part of, simply because negative feedback isn't considered feedback in the eyes of SMS (speculation, based on numerous reportings).

I don't know whether it is true that Ian has actually come out and said that they already have enough money for a 2nd game, but I do find it very questionable that they require yet another crowdfunding, after having done very well in sales, and having raised more than 3 million dollars originally. Not everyone is fond of the idea of developers requiring consumers to fund development of their games, as well as developers outsourcing playtesting to the consumers. The fact that P Cars was such a mess on release, shows that outsourcing playtesting like this, simply isn't a good idea.

Big!? SMS is a tiny studio, 1/5th of the size of Turn 10 and did it occur that 70% of that goes to the investors of PCARS1 and Bandi, that they may want to invest in new expensive technology's and licences!

140 people is not a tiny studio. Not by a long shot. And it certainly isn't 1/5th of Turn 10, who have between 100-300 employees, depending on where they are in development. Tell me again who it is spewing garbage info? Polyphony is composed of 140 employees, btw. What is your source on the 70% thing? Seeing as Bandi was only involved in publishing the game, and thus, didn't throw millions into development of it (correct me if I'm wrong), they probably don't take as much of the cake as they would otherwise. So while SMS of course don't earn 100% of the sales, they still earn something. If that and the crowdfunding campaign is not enough to cover the expenses of the first game, and starting a 2nd, then their business strategy clearly isn't lucrative. I.E. they are failing as a company.

I'd also think (think being a key word here) that a sequel would cost less, on the basis of the fundamentals already being in place. They're not going to build an entirely new game engine. They've likely made sure that the licenses they obtained for the original game, will also be valid for the 2nd one.

Because they are open about licencing and that the other franchises didn't tell you until release, also Assetto Corsa announced many cars before release that aren't in game (Audi, Lambo, Toyota, Ford).

Open? They are outright lying. To quote the official SMS page about Audi joining PCars.

"Project CARS will feature seven Audi cars"

The game currently features 3 Audis. That's the very definition of lying. The announcement doesn't say that some of these cars would arrive at a later stage, or that some would be DLC. It said very clearly, that the game would feature these 7 Audis. If PD or Turn 10 did this, there would be an outrage. But aparently, when SMS does it, they are being "open" about licensing. This was just one of several examples. Then we of course have the cars that were available in the alpha/beta, yet were made exclusive to those who pre-order, or pay more money.

Are we at a point where game studioes actually have to specify that the content they are showing will be there on release, for it to be a guaranteed inclusion in the game? Really?

I won't make any excuses for Asseto Corsa, as I dispise early access every bit as much as crowdfunding. That, and I didn't follow the development process of Asseto Corsa.

 

[Ialyrn]

You do know that people have diferent titles for a reason ? Not all 130+ workers fix bugs . The more you type the more it show's that you were not involved.

Whats your name on the project cars forum? I will send you a PM on there so you can see my "WMD member" title.

 

[DrJustice]

A team of 40 staying back to fix pcars1 is all well and good, and no I didn't miss that on either of the forums. I just don't pass around insider information until SMS have made their public announcements on that particular subject.

It has been stated repeatedly in public by SMS staff for the last two days. Feel free to share

This is why so many bugs still exist in Pcars as it is, because anyone who dares speak out over SMS and their game get jumped on by the self imposed entourage.

That's not a fact either - in fact, it's wrong on two accounts: 1. that's not why there are bugs, 2. all bug reporting that isn't done in an abusive manner is welcomed and appreciated.

 

[PzR Slim]

Bold move announcing a sequel when there are so many problems with the current game which has one been out less than two months. Don't get me wrong, I love Project CARS, and think it has a **** ton of potential. The problem is the game is plagued with bugs, and I haven't played it in weeks because I keep getting freezes and crashes and it bums me out, because the game's great when you're not dealing with that ****. I would've thought after their last bug fix turned out to not even fix half the stuff they said they'd fixed, that they would have held off on any announcements until the most major bugs in the current game were properly fixed. Otherwise they risk giving people the impression that they don't care too much once the game's out and people have bought it. I know that isn't the case, and they've said they'll support the game for two years, but how many people will believe them?

Anybody with enough sense to pop over to the official forums click on SMS Posts at the top and look at all the interaction between the devs and their community as they actively try to help people solve their problems. For the rest, I'm not sure there is anything we can do to help those people

 

[Fat Tyre]

IMO pCARS 2 should be a PC exclusive game. Even though I enjoyed having a taste of pCARS I found it to be very broken and too "heavy" for a console such as the Xbone. Two days ago I gave it another shot, it was Cadwell Park and it was great, I got all happy again. Today I tried Azure circuit and it was awful again. Frame rate was weird and off putting, graphics didn't look good.

I understand that it is a great game but you need a beefy PC. If it doesn't perform well on the hardware you have then you just end up with a bitter taste in your mouth. Especially since they have a small team I'd rather them pull all their strength into a single version (PC one) and make it the greatest game on earth. Somehow even if it seems stupid, having a sub par version on a console (I have no idea how the PS4 performs) damages the perception and reputation of the quality of the IP as a whole.

 

[DrJustice]

Open? They are outright lying. To quote the official SMS page about Audi joining PCars.

"Project CARS will feature seven Audi cars"

The game currently features 3 Audis. That's the very definition of lying. The announcement doesn't say that some of these cars would arrive at a later stage, or that some would be DLC. It said very clearly, that the game would feature these 7 Audis.

No, it says will feature (ref.) - that's specifically the future tense. There are no claims that there would be 7 Audis in the base/release game, and this has been known for years (ref.).

My general advice is for people to be more careful when claiming facts and lies.

 

[Parker]

I definitely think Project CARS was overhyped, especially by some members of this forum, but it is still a fantastic game (in my opinion, obviously) and I've more than got my moneys worth out of it. I'll definitely be throwing some of my money to SMS for the new game, it'd be great if they figure out a way to get early access builds to console this time as well.

 

[Myles Prower]

They are looking at a console alpha and beta, Xbox is working on some form of early access program for devs as well.

 

[PzR Slim]

IMO pCARS 2 should be a PC exclusive game. Even though I enjoyed having a taste of pCARS I found it to be very broken and too "heavy" for a console such as the Xbone. Two days ago I gave it another shot, it was Cadwell Park and it was great, I got all happy again. Today I tried Azure circuit and it was awful again. Frame rate was weird and off putting, graphics didn't look good.

I understand that it is a great game but you need a beefy PC. If it doesn't perform well on the hardware you have then you just end up with a bitter taste in your mouth. Especially since they have a small team I'd rather them pull all their strength into a single version (PC one) and make it the greatest game on earth. Somehow even if it seems stupid, having a sub par version on a console (I have no idea how the PS4 performs) damages the perception and reputation of the quality of the IP as a whole.

You raise a very good and interesting point. I agree that the game is pushing consoles to their absolute limits, for example PCars is one of the first games to make use of the core that MS recently opened up to devs that used to be exclusively for the OS. The problem with developing only for PC is that you vastly reduce your customer base and the return on the investment just isn't worth it. Cars is a triple A title in it's scope (despite the bugs before the usual crowd pipe up!) and needs to be developed for every platform possible to make it worth while. So yes you might end up with a better game if it was PC only but it might just not happen at all.

 

[Jawehawk]

No, it says will feature (ref.) - that's specifically the future tense. There are no claims that there would be 7 Audis in the base/release game, and this has been known for years (ref.).

My general advice is for people to be more careful when claiming facts and lies.

Please look at the paragraph right after the one you quotet. It's pretty paramount to what I was saying.

And to those of you wanting it to be a PC exclusive. Please look at the sales. http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/project_cars/news/uk_video_game_chart_project_cars_takes_no_1.html

And I quote. "Released on PS4, Xbox One and PC, Project CARS sold a massive 63 per cent of its week one total on Sony's console. 31 per cent came on Xbox One and 6 per cent on PC - the bulk of PC sales will have been made digitally."

It would be suicide to go PC exclusive, even if I definately understand the reasoning behind it. I reckon it's easier and cheaper to make a game for one platform.

 

[Pseudopod]

Signed up and money transferred to my PayPal account. Should receive it in 1-2 work days, then join in on the fun. I don't have a PC that will run this but having regretted not backing pCARS, I'm certainly not missing out on this. A no-brainer for me personally, with Rallycross being in this time around.

You might have a PC that can run it in two years

It's fine to announce a new title this soon, but I totally understand that some people are ticked off by the fundraiser.

People do however need to understand that it takes a lot more people to develop a game than to maintain a game, and these people are basically just gonna twirl their thumbs now if they don't start on a new development project.

Paying people to twirl their thumbs is not good for business.

 

[Fat Tyre]

You raise a very good and interesting point. I agree that the game is pushing consoles to their absolute limits, for example PCars is one of the first games to make use of the core that MS recently opened up to devs that used to be exclusively for the OS. The problem with developing only for PC is that you vastly reduce your customer base and the return on the investment just isn't worth it. Cars is a triple A title in it's scope (despite the bugs before the usual crowd pipe up!) and needs to be developed for every platform possible to make it worth while. So yes you might end up with a better game if it was PC only but it might just not happen at all.

That is true and I understand that but if say 50% of the customers come from consoles and about half of them end up disappointed due to performance issues (which is fair enough) then you leave a whole lot of dissatisfied customers writing up posts everywhere online, uploading videos doubting the quality of the game. They might be complaining about their own version but the reputation damage goes to the franchise as a whole. I am practically repeating myself...

People change, I went from Playstation to Xbox and I might go to PC in the future if what's on offer gets too tempting. Having pCARS as a PC exclusive could do that to me and I'm pretty sure others would jump ship too. Especially if they aim to release a game right in the middle of the transition to a new generation of gaming consoles.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Jerome

 

[skazz]

- the bulk of PC sales will have been made digitally.".

You do realise that this statement means they weren't tracking the bulk of PC sales. So physical PC sales are tiny, most PC sales are through Steam, and those Steam sales aren't tracked through this mechanism.

Besides, a reasonable chunk of the 80,000 pCARS members will have already paid for the game before release via a WMD toolpack, and the "sales" to them definitely won't have been tracked as first month sales.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I definitely think Project CARS was overhyped, especially by some members of this forum, but it is still a fantastic game (in my opinion, obviously) and I've more than got my moneys worth out of it. I'll definitely be throwing some of my money to SMS for the new game, it'd be great if they figure out a way to get early access builds to console this time as well.

I'm with you. I am loooking forward to seeing what happens behind the scenes and how it all comes together. I'm looking forward to campaigning for different small features and other things that really make a game click with the end user. We'll have to get a GTP group together so we can get some block voting going.

 

[Willfred_1]

To those that are saying it's too soon i say this :
would you rather SMS fired all the employees they don't need now or retain their staff and start project cars 2.

I believe they're going to try and make use of XB1's planned early access system. This way they can get more console feedback.

I suspect the some of the money made will go towards a rainy fund should development take longer than expected. this means funds would be available for more employes or to pay for outgoings should the game be delayed.

 

[uMadson?]

>shilling pCARS this hard

pCARS 2 will be a sham

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

Here's how it is:

1) Due to PCARS' unique development plan which is dependent on community funding, they HAVE to announce it early in order to have enough money to make the game.

2) Sequels almost always start development before the first game even launches. They've probably been preparing PCARS2 for half a year or more behind the scenes so that they could start development in earnest soon after PCARS1's release.

3) You don't have to buy PCARS2 while it's in early access. Heck, you don't have to buy it at all. Because it's a free world.

So please keep these facts in mind before you complain about how they're milking you dry.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Here's how it is:

1) Due to PCARS' unique development plan which is dependent on community funding, they HAVE to announce it early in order to have enough money to make the game.

2) Sequels almost always start development before the first game even launches. They've probably been preparing PCARS2 for half a year or more behind the scenes so that they could start development in earnest soon after PCARS1's release.

3) You don't have to buy PCARS2 while it's in early access. Heck, you don't have to buy it at all. Because it's a free world.

So please keep these facts in mind before you complain about how they're milking you dry.

/end thread.

 

[PzR Slim]

Here's how it is:

1) Due to PCARS' unique development plan which is dependent on community funding, they HAVE to announce it early in order to have enough money to make the game.

2) Sequels almost always start development before the first game even launches. They've probably been preparing PCARS2 for half a year or more behind the scenes so that they could start development in earnest soon after PCARS1's release.

3) You don't have to buy PCARS2 while it's in early access. Heck, you don't have to buy it at all. Because it's a free world.

So please keep these facts in mind before you complain about how they're milking you dry.

Just a correction on point 1. They don't need your money to fund the game they have enough of their own. However, they liked the experience of developing a game alongside their community and would like to do it again. So for a limited time they are enabling people to get involved in the development process. By increasing the cost to get involved (and the rewards!) they hope that only people who are really serious about the process and therefore prepared to spend a decent amount of money will get involved. So it's not a money raising process but a 'serious people' raising process

 

[AudiMan2011]

would you rather SMS fired all the employees they don't need now or retain their staff and start project cars 2.

They should hire more people, especially more to handle the console versions.

 

[Spooky Wooky]

Will pCARS 2 have all the cars from pCARS one in it?

 

[JR98]

Will pCARS 2 have all the cars from pCARS one in it?

I don't see why it wouldn't...