Project CARS General Discussion Thread

[Fryto]

Le Mans will be one of the tracks with the highest car count, I suppose (since it has enough pit garages), but since the limit is 45, Le Mans will be limited to 45 too.

Does every track have as many pit boxes as in real life?

As then we'd see at least the Nurburgring, Spa, Road America have full 45 car grids on consoles. Watkins Glen comes close with the 43 boxes they need for featuring the Nascar races. I'm not sure about what the other tracks can cater in real life. I haven't been able to find a 'number of pitboxes per track' list anywhere...

Edit: Does Spa have two pitlanes as in real life? If they only use one, the car count may vary depending on which one they use (42 or 45)

 

[catamount39]

Does every track have as many pit boxes as in real life?

As then we'd see at least the Nurburgring, Spa, Road America have full 45 car grids on consoles. Watkins Glen comes close with the 43 boxes they need for featuring the Nascar races. I'm not sure about what the other tracks can cater in real life. I haven't been able to find a 'number of pitboxes per track' list anywhere...

I think someone said it's dependent on series and track.

 

[Willfred_1]

I think someone said it's dependent on series and track.

It very much so for instance road America can take up to 64 on PC ( I've done once with formula fords)
However some tracks, Monaco for instance is a lot less but I can't remember.

The largest grid I have played so far in single player is 32.
It consisted roughly
6 p1s LMP1
9 p2s. LMP2
9 gt3s. GT PRO
8gt4s. GT AM
If you think the consoles may be 16 limited to car models
A online series could have

3 p1 models
4 lmp2 models
9 gt models of which there are 8 so far and a few already comforted for later release

 

[catamount39]

It very much so for instance road America can take up to 64 on PC ( I've done once with formula fords)
However some tracks, Monaco for instance is a lot less but I can't remember.

The largest grid I have played so far in single player is 32.
It consisted roughly
6 p1s LMP1
9 p2s. LMP2
9 gt3s. GT PRO
8gt4s. GT AM
If you think the consoles may be 16 limited to car models
A online series could have

3 p1 models
4 lmp2 models
9 gt models of which there are 8 so far and a few already comforted for later release

One of the devs told us that consoles will have up to 30 something cars.

 

[Willfred_1]

One of the devs told us that consoles will have up to 30 something cars.

30 cars is different to 30 models.
For instance the formula A has 22 or 24 cars but only uses 1 car model the rest is just liveries.

 

[catamount39]

30 cars is different to 30 models.
For instance the formula A has 22 or 24 cars but only uses 1 car model the rest is just liveries.

Oh I see...well that's fine by me. I'm planning on doing many LMP2/GT3 races.

 

[GuerillaBlack]

So whats this all about then?

https://pretendracecars.wordpress.c...rs-questioning-the-direction-of-project-cars/

 

[Johnnypenso]

So whats this all about then?

https://pretendracecars.wordpress.c...rs-questioning-the-direction-of-project-cars/

Did you read the whole thing? What do you think it's all about?

 

[GuerillaBlack]

Did you read the whole thing? What do you think it's all about?

Nope in the proces of reading it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Nope in the proces of reading it.

When you are done, share your impressions.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I found the top bit especially interesting

Wait, I'm confused, are the comments and article piss takes or real? Thought they were a joke at first but confused now

 

[Johnnypenso]

I assume the video is supposed to highlight a major criticism of the physics, with the LMP cars scooping up a car in front during a rear end collision. It's too bad you can't fix that in the physics and it's going to be in the game..oh wait.....

Physics:
* LMP cars: Added scoop prevention to the collision shapes

 

[TheMinority]

I read that article earlier today, I was hesitant to share it in here considering that theres images showing the WMD forum and some posts we shouldn't see. Its just a whole bunch of BS about some of the troublesome Members of the WMD forum questioning the game and its features, then getting banned. Not to mention that the person who wrote the article isn't a fan of PCARS and from reading it, the author seems like an individual who wants to see the game fail. I dont know, maybe @Willfred_1 can address this better.

 

[DrJustice]

When you are done, share your impressions.

I probably should refrain from offering mine...

 

[Johnnypenso]

I read it earlier today myself. I didn't find anything surprising. Anyone looking from the outside that imagined it was all ice cream and cake in the SMS Forums would have to be delusional. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a lot more insider stuff released but that's a credit to the high standards of integrity among the members IMO. Not everyone is going to get what they want and not everything is going to get done by the release date. One only need look at the build notes to see there is still a ton of work to be done. None of which means it won't be a good game when it's released and get better as time goes on, this I fully expect.

 

[iQuacks]

So... after reading that article, what exactly is the damage model going to be on release day?

Are SMS pulling the same kind of BS we get from EA about post-release patches? ie - things that should be in the game/fixed still not present a year after release?

I would specifically like to know any details about safety cars and how long after release we are likely to see them.

 

[DrJustice]

Well Ok then... I will offer my impression

The guy is obviously a complete misanthropic and missimulatoric arsehole. He sort of tries to claim that it's satire, but it's not - it's the venomous bile of someone who hates everything, probably including himself. As for the content of that article, things decidedly stop being funny when he cherry picks a few messages (in breach of the T&C, WMD is a closed and private forum/workplace) out of context from a long thread with the intention of misrepresenting and smearing everybody. BTW, the seemingly alarmist nature of that thread is being discussed, and the conclusion/consensus is that there is no cause for alarm.

Trying to make it out as if WMD is a place of conflict is a good number of astronomical units from the truth. It's a positive and creative place - it has made Project CARS possible, and I've learnt more and had more interesting and friendly discourse there than on any other place on the net. The forum consists of humans though, so of course there is dissent sometimes. If there was one sim forum I could save at the moment of the apocalypse it would be WMD (oh, and I'd shoot for saving GTP too ).

That hate-mongering-blog is one place on the net that should not be given any attention or support by even looking in its general direction.

 

[DrJustice]

So... after reading that article, what exactly is the damage model going to be on release day?

The short answer is that we don't know quite yet.

My anecdotal answer is that in my last testing I've blown engines, bent suspension/steering, got flats, lost wheels, crumpled the bodywork and broken the windshield. Some damage features have been adjusted and may still be adjusted (possibly post release), but it's not going to be any less damage than that.

Are SMS pulling the same kind of BS we get from EA about post-release patches? ie - things that should be in the game/fixed still not present a year after release?

We don't know until it has happened, do we? However, as has been stated numerous times by SMS devs, and passed on here, it is the express intention to support the game with patches and DLC for a long time (two years as part of the business plan IIRC).

I would specifically like to know any details about safety cars and how long after release we are likely to see them.

Again we don't/can't know. Even SMS can't say exactly when. They need to get the base game out the door, take a breather, and the commence with the DLC work, which is subject to unknowns, just like all kinds of development. Rest assured though that there are many things in the pipeline, some of which is very specific.

 

[LogiForce]

Well Ok then... I will offer my impression

The guy is obviously a complete misanthropic and missimulatoric arsehole. He sort of tries to claim that it's satire, but it's not - it's the venomous bile of someone who hates everything, probably including himself. As for the content of that article, things decidedly stop being funny when he cherry picks a few messages (in breach of the T&C, WMD is a closed and private forum/workplace) out of context from a long thread with the intention of misrepresenting and smearing everybody. BTW, the seemingly alarmist nature of that thread is being discussed, and the conclusion/consensus is that there is no cause for alarm.

Trying to make it out as if WMD is a place of conflict is a good number of astronomical units from the truth. It's a positive and creative place - it has made Project CARS possible, and I've learnt more and had more interesting and friendly discourse there than on any other place on the net. The forum consists of humans, though so of course t he is dissent sometimes. If there was one last sim forum I could save at the moment of the apocalypse it would be WMD (oh, and I shoot for saving GTP too )

That hate-monging-blog is one place on the net that should not be given any attention or support by even looking in its general direction.

Totally agree. Even though I don't always see eye to eye with everyone all the time. When that happens we (read: WMD members) can have heated debates and strong disagreements, however, afterwards we are also able to shake hands and agree to disagree. Yet in another thread we also can be in total agreement about something as well.
What this all means is that no matter how strong our standpoints may be, or how fierce or discussions, we are always able to come back to being friends and colleagues as long as there is mutual understanding and trust.

 

[iQuacks]

The short answer is that we don't know quite yet.

My anecdotal answer is that in my last testing I've blown engines, bent suspension/steering, got flats, lost wheels, crumpled the bodywork and broken the windshield. Some damage features have been adjusted and may still be adjusted (possibly post release), but it's not going to be any less damage than that.


We don't know until it has happened, do we? However, as has been stated numerous times by SMS devs, and passed on here, it is the express intention to support the game with patches and DLC for a long time (two years as part of the business plan IIRC).


Again we don't/can't know. Even SMS can't say exactly when. They need to get the base game out the door, take a breather, and the commence with the DLC work, which is subject to unknowns, just like all kinds of development. Rest assured though that there are many things in the pipeline, some of which is very specific.

Thanks for your answer, that amount of damage variation is impressive (to me anyway). If that's what we're getting on release day I will be more than happy.

I forked out on a wheel and stand specifically on the hype pCARS has created, it sounds like the game us console peasants (lol) have been waiting for. I just hope it lives up to the hype.

 

[DrJustice]

^ Regarding the hype, that lives its own life completely out of control by SMS/WMD. The bi-polar monster that is the internet creates hype and hate of it's own accord, there's nothing we can do about it. At least, WMD members here are trying to stick to the facts, and I, for one, am not willing to add any hyperbole as a matter of principle.

That said, and without adding hype, I hope and believe you'll be able to enjoy the game

 

[GranTurismo guy]

^ Regarding the hype, that lives its own life completely out of control by SMS/WMD. The bi-polar monster that is the internet creates hype and hate of it's own accord, there's nothing we can do about it. At least, WMD members here are trying to stick to the facts, and I, for one, am not willing to add any hyperbole as a matter of principle.

That said, and without adding hype, I hope and believe you'll be able to enjoy the game

I've spent almost 2 years drooling over merely footage of it; you speak the truth.

 

[Wolfe]

The author of that blog is a blathering attention-seeker I know from another board who seems to consider himself a sort of amateur "investigative sim racing journalist" ever since he uncovered shady practices going on over at iRacing. With that thirst for blood and all the hype, he would love nothing more than for PCARS to flop so he can say, "I told you so."

The only leg he has to stand on is what happened with Shift 2 Unleashed, but PCARS was specifically conceived as a departure from the traditional publisher-developer relationship that is claimed to have contributed to its spiritual predecessor's failings. Slightly Mad is now free to upload as many patches or fixes as they can afford without approval from anyone else, and like DrJustice said, they've always intended to support the game for a while -- more like a PC sim than an iterative console game.

We all know patches/fixes are less than ideal, but if the core racing experience is already this accessible for a casual player and this refined for an skilled simracer, I don't see any reason to panic yet.

It's a tired, worn-out answer when it comes to this game, but it's a work in progress. And come March, it will still be a work in progress, partly from a lack of time/resources, and partly by design.

 

[LogiForce]

This game will keep improving for 2 years at least (at an unknown rate). That is the commitment Slightly Mad Studios has to the game.
Eventually if the game is a hit and the sales of the core game and paid DLC are good enough Slightly Mad Studios will have a choice to make. Either they continue to improve and expand Project CARS after those 2 years are up, or they could decide to make a second installment of the game.

That said. I sometimes wonder. Since we're already tickling the performance roofs of the current generation consoles, would it not be better to continue to improve this installment and maybe move onto a Project CARS 2 when the next generation of consoles arrive? Cause than we'll have more headroom to properly improve upon the looks and a lot more headroom for physics as well, to name a couple of taxing things.

Que será, será.
First everyone will be busy to provide a game to play with. Which is an important first step.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This game will keep improving for 2 years at least (at an unknown rate). That is the commitment Slightly Mad Studios has to the game.
Eventually if the game is a hit and the sales of the core game and paid DLC are good enough Slightly Mad Studios will have a choice to make. Either they continue to improve and expand Project CARS after those 2 years are up, or they could decide to make a second installment of the game.

That said. I sometimes wonder. Since we're already tickling the performance roofs of the current generation consoles, would it not be better to continue to improve this installment and maybe move onto a Project CARS 2 when the next generation of consoles arrive? Cause than we'll have more headroom to properly improve upon the looks and a lot more headroom for physics as well, to name a couple of taxing things.

Que será, será.
First everyone will be busy to provide a game to play with. Which is an important first step.

From what little I've read, DX12 could blow the roof off of games in the next couple of years even on consoles. Even without it PCars 2 could expand the car and track roster dramatically, introduce organized online racing aka Pro Mode ala iRacing(I'd pay extra for that), add other forms of racing like rally, drag, drift, time attack, touge etc. A livery editor would be a nice addition to PCars 2, more street cars etc. Lots you can do on the same console with another version of the game.

 

[LogiForce]

From what little I've read, DX12 could blow the roof off of games in the next couple of years even on consoles. Even without it PCars 2 could expand the car and track roster dramatically, introduce organized online racing aka Pro Mode ala iRacing(I'd pay extra for that), add other forms of racing like rally, drag, drift, time attack, touge etc. A livery editor would be a nice addition to PCars 2, more street cars etc. Lots you can do on the same console with another version of the game.

DX12 might be implemented in pCARS 1 already in the next 2 years to indeed get more overhead on the consoles and PC. Especially a 50% performance increase would give a lot of room for improvement of what we have now.
The same goes for cars and tracks. You could sell expansion packs that add 'Indy Car', 'Champ Car', 'DTM', 'BTCC', 'NASCAR', and so on. In those packs you'd add tracks and cars and sell them for a reasonable price.
Those packs could also contain additions of other racing forms. Which all could be be 'retro-fitted' to pCARS 1.

So it is very well possible to keep evolving pCARS 1 on all levels, as it has in the last 3 good years in its development stage. The only downside is that you are limited on the ease of implementation.
Now SMS can say to use "here's a new feature. Go on and enjoy. If there is trouble please report it", but that's not something you can do with a consumer version of the game. You will have to provide a solid experience of whatever you will add to the release version of the game.

This means that in short I don't know where Slight Mad Studios will draw a line and what they want to do in two years from now. So as I said... que será, será. Or in other words... whatever will be, will be.
It's just completely up in the air for now. At least for me as I am not really up to speed with what is promised or said to be desired to be implemented/added to the current game.

 

[Tesla]

The author of that blog is a blathering attention-seeker I know from another board who seems to consider himself a sort of amateur "investigative sim racing journalist" ever since he uncovered shady practices going on over at iRacing. With that thirst for blood and all the hype, he would love nothing more than for PCARS to flop so he can say, "I told you so."

The only leg he has to stand on is what happened with Shift 2 Unleashed, but PCARS was specifically conceived as a departure from the traditional publisher-developer relationship that is claimed to have contributed to its spiritual predecessor's failings. Slightly Mad is now free to upload as many patches or fixes as they can afford without approval from anyone else, and like DrJustice said, they've always intended to support the game for a while -- more like a PC sim than an iterative console game.

We all know patches/fixes are less than ideal, but if the core racing experience is already this accessible for a casual player and this refined for an skilled simracer, I don't see any reason to panic yet.

It's a tired, worn-out answer when it comes to this game, but it's a work in progress. And come March, it will still be a work in progress, partly from a lack of time/resources, and partly by design.

pCars will not be refined enough for sim racers. The fact that Empty Box openly praises iRacing for the abomination that is their physics model is proof he is not as good at discovering nuances in driving models as you may think. The fact it's still a 'work-in-progress' is proof that SMS are either incompetent, lazy, or are intentionally omitting features for reasons unknown. You're incredibly gullible and/or naive if you can honestly believe SMS, a studio who have put out literally nothing of value into the world of sim racing, will make pCars into anything resembling a sim racer. Anyone can see that patches/fixes will soon turn into paid DLC, and the blind pCars fans will eat it all up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the game. It'll probably be good to play with casual friends who come over, and I'm sure the models will be quickly ported to every other game out there that actually has good physics.

 

[DrJustice]

...The fact it's still a 'work-in-progress' is proof that SMS are either incompetent, lazy, or are intentionally omitting features for reasons unknown....

So that makes all the other sim studios out there incompetent, lazy or intentionally omitting features as they all continue to improve their driving models and other aspect of their sims...

...I'm sure the models will be quickly ported to every other game out there that actually has good physics.

Ah, yes the models will be ripped/stolen and distributed as pirated contents, and even sold for a profit, as we're seeing already, with random copy & paste physics.

Gweezus, what an outlook.

 

[LogiForce]

So that makes all the other sim studios out there incompetent, lazy or intentionally omitting features as they all continue to improve their driving models and other aspect of their sims...


Ah, yes the models will be ripped/stolen and distributed as pirated contents, and even sold for a profit, as we're seeing already, with random paste & copy physics.

Gweezus, what an outlook.

Touché!

The other studios or any modern game has issues or lack features upon release. So every game developer in at least the past 15 to 20 years must have been incompetent.
I mean GT6 still isn't feature complete. Assetto Corsa isn't complete. Raceroom Experience also is something that continues to develop, just like Simraceway and iRacing.

The list goes on and on... but because it is Project CARS it seems as if the USA and Russia have pressed the button in their nuclear footballs. In other words the world must be coming to an end.


So at @Tesla, why are you making a big deal out of it for Project CARS but not the others?
Also if you think "porting"/pirating game contents is good. I'm sure you won't mind that I take some of the contents out of your house as well, for which you worked hard to get. Cause that is what you are suggesting, that it is okay to steal something someone has worked hard for.
Which kinda makes the stealing party the lazy bastards, since they don't make the effort to create their own content.

 

[Wolfe]

pCars will not be refined enough for sim racers. The fact that Empty Box openly praises iRacing for the abomination that is their physics model is proof he is not as good at discovering nuances in driving models as you may think. The fact it's still a 'work-in-progress' is proof that SMS are either incompetent, lazy, or are intentionally omitting features for reasons unknown. You're incredibly gullible and/or naive if you can honestly believe SMS, a studio who have put out literally nothing of value into the world of sim racing, will make pCars into anything resembling a sim racer. Anyone can see that patches/fixes will soon turn into paid DLC, and the blind pCars fans will eat it all up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the game. It'll probably be good to play with casual friends who come over, and I'm sure the models will be quickly ported to every other game out there that actually has good physics.

I'm not exactly putting stock in Empty Box's appraisal of the physics, I'm just pointing out that both he and that other guy are already happy with how it drives, something that will matter a hell of a lot more for the game's success on launch day than niche-interest features like flag rules.

Wherever it lands on the realism scale, I'll have to see for myself when I get my hands on it. Based on all the videos around, the handling is evidently very playable. If SMS can finish that knockout list of tracks and variety of cars, and just the main features -- including the AI programming as mentioned in the list of concerns -- it should be great either way, and I don't think I would mind missing a few secondary features (even damage, IMO) on day one. I'll still be waiting to see how the Wii U version unfolds, so while I wish SMS and WMD luck in March, any hiccups on the PS4/XBone/PC really aren't my problem.