Project CARS General Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Terronium-12
  • 20,825 comments
  • 1,568,022 views
I have a question about swapping drivers (between human and AI) for endurance races offline. Can you do your stint and know how long you have until your next so you can get a power nap and not find your race ruined because the car has been stationary for half an hour?

I'm really into having a go at a real time 24h race and I've started talking to my wife about it... :D
 
We aware of this guy at wmd. what he does is spread malicious untrue rumors about project cars. so please don't even take it seriously.


Eh...
He quoted Ian bell...its Ian's statement not his?
I just read the entire article and according to both Ian bell, and the forum moderators they have indeed removed some of the features mentioned (for launch) and will be adding them back when they are fully ready after launch as patches/dlc.
https://pretendracecars.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/untitled-6.jpg

So, who ever the guy is, he's not spreading lies, he's spreading private information that was said behind the pay wall and was not ment for "our" non members ears, as it could damage sales. It's not lies, it's secrets he's spreading!

Unless Ian was lying of course :)

It's a fun read though, it's nice to see what goes on behind the pay wall. Thanks for link as its got lots of decent info on it.

If WMD had any sense they would open up a little and validate his claims, instead the WMD members say "he's a liar" then go back and post private posts to the contrary, that he them calls them out for.

If I were ian, I'd do the podcast or live chat, I'd answer every technical question, I'd be honest. The buyers will appreciate that. But "shilling" is not gonna end well, they could "COULD" end up making enemy's if someone decides to post a "cracked" version of an older build that is (proven) to contain a substantially better damage model than the release... It'll be shift all over again!

Example:
"He's a liar we never dumbed down the damage"..... Skidrow release a cracked dev build proving the damage model was dumbed down.... You guys are ALL gonna loose like BILL, you will have no credit

"I never had sexual relations with that woman" ....
Its gonna come out in the wash, comparison videos etc.. If this guy have an axe to grind, why GIVE them bullits and a gun to shoot you with in a few weeks? Why!

He can side step this though, by going all in and saying "yea, we removed a large chunk of the damage model, because it was a ****ing headache" and then advise buyers that they got the best parts in with more to follow ... His PR staff are a ****in joke, I feel sorry for the guy!
 
Last edited:
He's taking the quotes out of the context, though...

That's possible, however ... (And I'm looking for it now) but I read an interview just days ago where Ian actually stated that it's usual for the dev cycle to remove buggy or undead features etc.., so in fact it's likely very true.

So to call him a liar, seems... Well... Self destructive and therefore actually CREDITS and VALIDATES the guy! Because by calling him a liar, but him being proven right (and therefore WMD/SMS wrong) means THEY were caught lying to us, about him!

That's not how this situation should be handled, they should no better!
If you want to silence the guy, adress his points!

Show him up, bring the technical data, sit down a wipe the floor with him, discredit him with facts and indisputable figures... Don't scream "liar liar pants on fire" and runaway and talk how he is "telling everyone your secrets" behind a paywall.

By "you" I don't mean YOU :) I mean in general :)
 
HCK
"He's a liar we never dumbed down the damage"..... Skidrow release a cracked dev build proving the damage model was dumbed down.... You guys are ALL gonna loose like BILL, you will have no credit

Absolutely nothing was dumbed down. It's only that the damages sensitivity was modified, nothing more...

HCK
So to call him a liar, seems... Well... Self destructive and therefore actually CREDITS and VALIDATES the guy! Because by calling him a liar, but him being proven right (and therefore WMD/SMS wrong) means THEY were caught lying to us, about him!

That's not how this situation should be handled, they should no better!
If you want to silence the guy, adress his points!

Since when Wilfred entirely represents SMS and WMD point of view?

Imo, the guy isn't really a liar, but he's talking about something that he has no clues about and he showed many times his inability to understand the context (or giving a wrong context on purpose).
 
Imo, the guy isn't really a liar, but he's talking about something that he has no clues about and he showed many times his inability to understand the context (or giving a wrong context on purpose).

You mean like the part here you said:
Since when Wilfred entirely represents SMS and WMD point of view?

After I said: I don't mean you.... I mean in general ;)

I wasn't addressing SMS or WMD I was saying in general... If someone comes up to you (general) and says I know you slept with my GF last week! Do you shout liar liar pants on fire, or show the facts that you were in France on holiday!

If someone accuses you of a crime, do you should "liar liar pants on fire" or **** them up with the facts on how it wasn't you... I was not blaming SMS I was saying in "general" if you are "accused" it's better to prove them wrong, that shout liar and run away.

Who cares if the damage model was dumbed down, I dont! In fact I'm betting it was! Because it was likely a cause fir a few bugs that proving difficult tips resolve, or was CPU intensive when in full effect... Or whatever. I'm all for optimisation, stability and then add those or upgrade those features as time progresses. GT spec 2.0 for example... ;)


The guy very likely is an ass hat, but he has an axe to grind (clearly) so much so that he now has a validated blog, that is being discussed here and after a quick Google, a few other places too... I could silence him, and make his blog redundant in about 1hr with him (if I was Ian) by just addressing the points raised. Why not? It's be fun if anything!

It's a community game, have a chat with the community members who have issues. Sit them down, bring them round to your way of thinking. Doing what Ian is doing is almost child like and rookie. It seems unprofessional (in my opinion). He shoud easily Handle this better.

If it were me, I'd seriously go on this guys web cast, podcast, blog phone call whatever and just answer his questions. We hate politicians because they refuse to answer simple questions, so I can kind of see the guys point. He has some questions, they ask them, they get banned, Ian denies it, then posts privately to the contrary... You can see why the guy has an axe to grind.

But the best way to deal with that is to remove his axe, then remove his desire and reason to grind.

If sms or (insert random general company here) answer his questions he will no longer have a coause! It's basics in management.

I'm a PM so I think this way all the time, I deal with situations like this all the time. It's part of project managment 101, in fact its specifically mentioned in the Prince2 syllabus as something that PMs need to address weekly, and provide examples on how to address it. (Exactly the ones I mentioned).

It's not "my opinion" it's part of the syllabus from the world recognised Prince2 methodology. I just think that way because I was trained that way...

Ian could really learn from having a better team behind him, or going on a few training courses with how to deal with the customers who are affected (both negatively and positively) by the products the project provides!
 
Last edited:
I have a question about swapping drivers (between human and AI) for endurance races offline. Can you do your stint and know how long you have until your next so you can get a power nap and not find your race ruined because the car has been stationary for half an hour?

I'm really into having a go at a real time 24h race and I've started talking to my wife about it... :D
I bet she's enthralled.:lol:
 
HCK
Do you shout liar liar pants on fire, or show the facts that you were in France on holiday!

Do we really need to lose our time to write arguments against a website that at the end is just somekind of clickbait?
Honestly, the best way to stop him is to ban him from WMDPortal. Easy and fast.

HCK
Who cares if the damage model was dumbed down, I dont! In fact I'm betting it was! Because it was likely a cause fir a few bugs that proving difficult tips resolve, or was CPU intensive when in full effect... Or whatever. I'm all for optimisation, stability and then add those or upgrade those features as time progresses. GT spec 2.0 for example... ;)

Damages. Were. Not. Dumbed. Down.

HCK
I could silence him, and make his blog redundant in about 1hr with him (if I was Ian) by just addressing the points raised. Why not? !

He has other fish to fry.

HCK
Doing what Ian is doing is almost child like and rookie.

Seriously?!

HCK
He has some questions, they ask them, they get banned, Ian denies it, then posts privately to the contrary... You can see why the guy has an axe to grind.

Completely untrue.

HCK
Ian could really learn from having a better team behind him, or going on a few training courses with how to deal with the customers who are affected (both negatively and positively) by the products the project provides!

They have better things to do. They have a game to finish.
 
does anyone know if there are plans to animate the driver's thumbs for KERS and DRS activation? not that I want to give SMS any extra work to do but it would be a nice touch.

do any other games have this?
 
does anyone know if there are plans to animate the driver's thumbs for KERS and DRS activation? not that I want to give SMS any extra work to do but it would be a nice touch.

do any other games have this?

The thumb animations for de/activating KERS and DRS? F1 2012/13 has it, '14 only has DRS.
 
Any info regarding a race engineer feature? The closest I saw was a mention in the career thread that some teams might allow more setup freedom than others - does this mean there will be some form of automatic setup assistance or planning implemented, both in regards to pre race setups and on-the-fly pit strategy? Such a feature has been high on race sim wishlists for a long time, as many a race has been lost by the wrong tyres / fuel / adjustment being taken on a late pitstop...
 
Likewise, It's hard when one of the two of you are really that terrible at racing games.

She forgives my lack of driving ability though. :sly: :P
My girlfriend quite likes long endurance races. Unfortunatelly, to be competitive, I'll have to dumb the AI down a lot.

And I mean A LOT.
 
The thumb animations for de/activating KERS and DRS? F1 2012/13 has it, '14 only has DRS.

Is it correct, that in PCars KERS recharges with every braking? That would suck because that is not how it worked in F1 (basically). (It worked like that but the driver only had it available for 6,7 seconds per lap).
 
Damages. Were. Not. Dumbed. Down.
.

Well, to be fair, some were because of licensing reasons. If you skim through the build notes, you can see for instance that for some cars they had to get rid of any detachable parts. But that's the same wall any developer hits these days...
 
Is it correct, that in PCars KERS recharges with every braking? That would suck because that is not how it worked in F1 (basically). (It worked like that but the driver only had it available for 6,7 seconds per lap).

Formula A is a 2011 F1 car and in 2011 KERS only recharged while braking. But even if the battery is fully charged, you can't use more than it is allowed in 1 lap (it goes from 0-100) but I didn't count how many seconds that is..iirc it is about 6-8 seconds.
 
Formula A is a 2011 F1 car and in 2011 KERS only recharged while braking. But even if the battery is fully charged, you can't use more than it is allowed in 1 lap (it goes from 0-100) but I didn't count how many seconds that is..iirc it is about 6-8 seconds.

Thanks. Are you sure about that? Because I saw a Formula A video which shows that KERS fully recharges under braking, fully discharges and then again recharges. All in one lap.
 
Thanks. Are you sure about that? Because I saw a Formula A video which shows that KERS fully recharges under braking, fully discharges and then again recharges. All in one lap.

That's the experience I had about 2 weeks ago in the Formula A car. Can you post the video? But the circle recharging-discharging-recharging is fine in one lap because it was only used one time.
 
That's the experience I had about 2 weeks ago in the Formula A car. Can you post the video? But the circle recharging-discharging-recharging is fine in one lap because it was only used one time.

Unfortunately I can't find the video but I guess you're right. In the last official video he discharges and then recharges one time.



It's a little bit different to real F1 where the KERS symbol did not recharge during the lap.
 
When it comes to KERS, we think "He crossed the line, battery is fully charged again" because the graphics (in TV and in the Codemaster games) suggest this. In pcars, you get the actual loading status of the battery.

Can't watch the video, youtube is blocked here at work ;)
 
Well, to be fair, some were because of licensing reasons. If you skim through the build notes, you can see for instance that for some cars they had to get rid of any detachable parts. But that's the same wall any developer hits these days...

Exactly,
This guy gets it ^^

@c172fccc
This AGAIN just proves the point I'm trying to make (but seems to be getting overlooked each time I post, because people get defensive thinking its a "dig")

Forget Ian, forget the blog, forget any emotional, attachment...

Now...
Does the guys INFORMATION that he posts (forget him, forget WMD, focus on his INFORMATION) have any validity!

If yes > Don't call it a lie, untrue, and flame people etc "WITHOUT" backing it up in some way! Otherwise, when YOU are proven to be wrong, you not only you discredit yourself, but you prove yourself to be unreasonable and willing to take in new information or admit to a fault or flaw, and make yourself out to be liar!

It's NOT a discredit that the damage model was dumbed down.. It's not. No one truly cares. It's fine, it's ok, it's still good enough.

But by screaming "liar liar pant in fire" and running away and NOT posting facts or evidence to back it up, only allows for <insert your nemesis here> to make YOU look like the fool/liar/dishonest one!

It's a rudimentary mistake re: behaviour and NOT a dig at SMS/WMD/Damage model etc.

Also, it's ians job to do damage control, PR, Marketing (to a degree) so it's in his best interest to not make him self out to be a liar or unreasonable.

Imagine you were at work and did something wrong (deleted some files) and you know it could be proven as it was logged and on camera... Would you deny it u til they pulled you in and embarrassed you with the evidence, discrediting you, shaming you! Or would you say "****" I ****ed up.. Here's what I did and why!

This is my point exactly.
They really really need to get Iain on a real management course or stop him talking to public at all.

a few years ago he (Ian) made some pretty bold statements regarding Shift and shift 2 to the world! Stating that his game was better than any SIMULATION on the market! Stating that the physics engine was the most complex and sophisticated available!

Now... I'm not saying Ian is a liar... But he doesn't have a very good track record at telling the truth, unless of course you think "Need a For Speed Shift" was indeed the best most complex and realistic SIMULATION available!

All I'm saying is, Ian could and really should handle this more professionally. I love PCars! I'm building my Rig around it, it's the reason I'm building a new pc and the reason I built my CSWV2 rig... But Ian... He is not great for business. It's perfectly OK to question his choices, I have my choices questioned weekly if not daily during the managing a stage boundary process where we update everything... It's healthy AND is one of the underlying PRINCIPLES of Prince2 Project Managment (so this isn't speculation).

Ian is there to hype everyone up, but he is doing it in a way similar to one if those guys on stage who tell you how to bed women, how to make a million etc and charge you £49 fir the seminar.

I'd rather he sat down and said:
I see the reports that we dumbed down the damage model... Here's exactly what happened. We had to remove the d'état chsnge parts due to licensing reasons from xyz, we then reduced the amount of complex damage due to high over head and optimisation... But here is a video of the before and after, displaying the old model vs the new model DISPLAYING the FPS advantage or reduction in CPU overhead.

That's what I would do.
I wouldn't tell lies and call everyone else a liar!

It's like a footballer diving and claiming he was fouled... then shouting to all 40,000 spectators... "YOU'RE ALL WRONG" :D

it doesn't matter if damage was dumbed down, what matters is the credibility of the company and its members and so far, by acting the way they are, saying the things they are saying... They are only discrediting themselves and therefore VALIDATING the guy over at PretendRaceCars!

Rookie mistake at best!

Quote from Ian bell Regarding "Need ForSpeed Shift"
"We have a full realism hardcore mode called Pro that you can choose to race in from the start that will feel natural and comfortable as well as raising the bar for handling compared to anything out there (or due out soon) for all of our hardcore race sim fans."

Quote from Ian Bell regarding "Need For Speed Shift"
"The most realistic sim ever made”, using “a more complex physics engine than anything on the market”.

Really.........
You can see the point being made here now hopefully!
Ian does not have a good track record with many of the BIG sim racing publications/Websites etc and has spouted a lot of hyperbole. He is NOT held in high regard by many in the sim raceing community and sites. Just search his past interviews and reader comments! (Even this very site)

So take from that what you will.
The ONLY point bring made, is that Ian is not going about this the right way... In fact... He is doing what he did last time round... And he angered so many people, that the franchise was tarnished and... Well... You know the rest!
 
Last edited:
HCK
Exactly,
This guy gets it ^^

@c172fccc
This AGAIN just proves the point I'm trying to make (but seems to be getting overlooked each time I post, because people get defensive thinking its a "dig")

Forget Ian, forget the blog, forget any emotional, attachment...

Now...
Does the guys INFORMATION that he posts (forget him, forget WMD, focus on his INFORMATION) have any validity!

If yes > Don't call it a lie, untrue, and flame people etc "WITHOUT" backing it up in some way! Otherwise, when YOU are proven to be wrong, you not only you discredit yourself, but you prove yourself to be unreasonable and willing to take in new information or admit to a fault or flaw, and make yourself out to be liar!

It's NOT a discredit that the damage model was dumbed down.. It's not. No one truly cares. It's fine, it's ok, it's still good enough.

But by screaming "liar liar pant in fire" and running away and NOT posting facts or evidence to back it up, only allows for <insert your nemesis here> to make YOU look like the fool/liar/dishonest one!

It's a rudimentary mistake re: behaviour and NOT a dig at SMS/WMD/Damage model etc.

Also, it's ians job to do damage control, PR, Marketing (to a degree) so it's in his best interest to not make him self out to be a liar or unreasonable.

Imagine you were at work and did something wrong (deleted some files) and you know it could be proven as it was logged and on camera... Would you deny it u til they pulled you in and embarrassed you with the evidence, discrediting you, shaming you! Or would you say "****" I ****ed up.. Here's what I did and why!

This is my point exactly.
They really really need to get Iain on a real management course or stop him talking to public at all.

a few years ago he (Ian) made some pretty bold statements regarding Shift and shift 2 to the world! Stating that his game was better than any SIMULATION on the market! Stating that the physics engine was the most complex and sophisticated available!

Now... I'm not saying Ian is a liar... But he doesn't have a very good track record at telling the truth, unless of course you think "Need a For Speed Shift" was indeed the best most complex and realistic SIMULATION available!

All I'm saying is, Ian could and really should handle this more professionally. I love PCars! I'm building my Rig around it, it's the reason I'm building a new pc and the reason I built my CSWV2 rig... But Ian... He is not great for business. It's perfectly OK to question his choices, I have my choices questioned weekly if not daily during the managing a stage boundary process where we update everything... It's healthy AND is one of the underlying PRINCIPLES of Prince2 Project Managment (so this isn't speculation).

Ian is there to hype everyone up, but he is doing it in a way similar to one if those guys on stage who tell you how to bed women, how to make a million etc and charge you £49 fir the seminar.

I'd rather he sat down and said:
I see the reports that we dumbed down the damage model... Here's exactly what happened. We had to remove the d'état chsnge parts due to licensing reasons from xyz, we then reduced the amount of complex damage due to high over head and optimisation... But here is a video of the before and after, displaying the old model vs the new model DISPLAYING the FPS advantage or reduction in CPU overhead.

That's what I would do.
I wouldn't tell lies and call everyone else a liar!

It's like a footballer diving and claiming he was fouled... then shouting to all 40,000 spectators... "YOU'RE ALL WRONG" :D

it doesn't matter if damage was dumbed down, what matters is the credibility of the company and its members and so far, by acting the way they are, saying the things they are saying... They are only discrediting themselves and therefore VALIDATING the guy over at PretendRaceCars!

Rookie mistake at best!

Quote from Ian bell Regarding "Need ForSpeed Shift"
"We have a full realism hardcore mode called Pro that you can choose to race in from the start that will feel natural and comfortable as well as raising the bar for handling compared to anything out there (or due out soon) for all of our hardcore race sim fans."

Quote from Ian Bell regarding "Need For Speed Shift"
"The most realistic sim ever made”, using “a more complex physics engine than anything on the market”.

Really.........
You can see the point being made here now hopefully!
Ian does not have a good track record with many of the BIG sim racing publications/Websites etc and has spouted a lot of hyperbole. He is NOT held in high regard by many in the sim raceing community and sites. Just search his past interviews and reader comments! (Even this very site)

So take from that what you will.
The ONLY point bring made, is that Ian is not going about this the right way... In fact... He is doing what he did last time round... And he angered so many people, that the franchise was tarnished and... Well... You know the rest!

Got to say HCK I admire you for taking the time to put your thoughts across in such a considered and detailed manner. Most people would just get frustrated by being told, "They have better things to do", or "Finishing the game is more important", which, after reading that blog, seem more than a little dismissive. I totally see your point and you've more or less said everything I wanted to say after reading that blog. It's very easy to shout about context, but you can't change what was actually said, context or otherwise. Surely it wouldn't take too much time for somebody to come out and give the correct context to those posts, coz after reading them it made me think wow, Ian is out of order. But I/you/we give him the benefit of the doubt because we don't know the context, doesn't stop me worrying about the quality of the finished game though. And that's the point, I've been more excited for this game than any other racing game since Forza 3. I really hope it's going to be awesome, and I'm confident that it will be, but evidence like the stuff in that blog, without being debunked by any coherent or detailed argument, is dangerous.
 
What unit is the fuel gauge in? In that pit-box video posted by Andy Tudor he goes on a qualifying lap and the gauge is showing 240 and decreasing. Is that kilos, litres, range maybe? I'm not sure if a 2011 F1 car had a tank big enough for 240kg/240l of fuel. But even if so, why would anyone start a hotlap with a full tank?
 
Well, to be fair, some were because of licensing reasons. If you skim through the build notes, you can see for instance that for some cars they had to get rid of any detachable parts. But that's the same wall any developer hits these days...

Yes, but except for the fact that some cars can't lose there bonnet anymore, the damages are still the same. It's not really what I would call "dumbed down".


HCK
Exactly,
This guy gets it ^^

Hmm, and what does he get, exactly?

HCK
Does the guys INFORMATION that he posts (forget him, forget WMD, focus on his INFORMATION) have any validity!

If yes > Don't call it a lie, untrue, and flame people etc "WITHOUT" backing it up in some way! Otherwise, when YOU are proven to be wrong, you not only you discredit yourself, but you prove yourself to be unreasonable and willing to take in new information or admit to a fault or flaw, and make yourself out to be liar!

Again, there is only one person that called him a liar. SMS didn't call him a liar, they just didn't react at all.

HCK
This is my point exactly.
They really really need to get Iain on a real management course or stop him talking to public at all.

Hmm, what? When is the last time he directly talked to the public?

HCK
a few years ago he (Ian) made some pretty bold statements regarding Shift and shift 2 to the world! Stating that his game was better than any SIMULATION on the market! Stating that the physics engine was the most complex and sophisticated available!

Now... I'm not saying Ian is a liar... But he doesn't have a very good track record at telling the truth, unless of course you think "Need a For Speed Shift" was indeed the best most complex and realistic SIMULATION available!

This was marketing, but I can't say anything since I don't know anything about this.

HCK
It's like a footballer diving and claiming he was fouled... then shouting to all 40,000 spectators... "YOU'RE ALL WRONG" :D

Nope, it like if a fan telled "YOU'RE ALL WRONG" and the footballer told nothing, but you took the fan's word for his.
 
Last edited:
So I cancelld my preorder today I'll wait until the games out then get it at the moment I have a lot going on with a new job I'll be starting next week so will have to pick this game up at a later date.
 
You can turn off damage, fuel usage and tyre ware and turn on a bunch of assists. On top of that you can turn the AI difficulty down. That's all the softening you'll get and it's equal on all platforms. 👍

Not sure if you can check via telemetry, but does the AI use assists as well or will they also be disabled when you switch off yours?
 
Back