Questioning Religion

[Carl.]

Ksvee... his name is Ksvee.
those romans are...

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[PS]

Ahh, finally, the thread is slowing down. Soon it will die. I wonder if it will go to dead thread heaven or hell? Or anywhere for that matter?

Maybe we'll see its ghost in the afterlife. wooooo

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I wish I could express what God has done in my life. I've tried to rationalize the psychology behind faith and the benefits of practicing worship to a supreme being. It just doesn't make sense that all the benefits I've experienced with my walk in faith can be attributed to a sub conscious need or desire being fulfilled by a blind faith. I've tried life without God and I've tried life with God, and I have to confess that my quality of life is soo much better with Devine intervention in my life. To me the proof is in the pudding. There were moments in my life that I felt complete despair and detached from God during my divorce with my first wife. I had hit rock bottom, I was all alone and I was in a self destructive mode. I had lost 60 lbs of body weight bring be to a shell of 140 lbs in just a few months. I hated life and all that it stood for. In the midst of all that I felt that God was always there waiting to help, he just needed me to ask. That I did, on my knees I pleaded for deliverance from this dark place that I had found myself in. In a instant I felt the grace of God cover me with his warmth and love that I had never felt before.

I had never felt the presence of God until I had surrendered my self to him, to give him complete control of my life.

My testimony, like millions of others around the globe is proof. It is proof to me because I have experienced it. Until you have experienced it you will have no acceptable proof of God's existence.

Beautiful testimony. Thats what were talking about . There's thousands more like it. You know its easy to boast of your beliefs or lack of them when you have never come up against a crisis to test if they are as sufficient as you think they are.
There's no such thing as a "Foxhole Atheist".

 

[Sage]

Well, I won't argue why that's a nonsensical cliché, since someone's already done it. That's really a low blow (and a tired one, at that).

 

[Gil]

Obviously I don't read the bible, so you're going to have to make yourself clearer. And yes, I'm aware that noah built an arc to survive the flood and put 2 of every animal on it (M + F = more)...unfortunately that would never work because of 1) inbreeding and 2) it takes a minimum of 7 of each male and female to produce enough genetic variance to succesfully restore a population. And that's if they all mate with each other.

Okay, I missed most of today, because I'm still gainfully employed.

But you obviously don't read the Bible. If you go back and review the great flood you will note (with some consternation) that God instructed Noah to take two each of only the "clean" animals. (Those without cloven hooves). But of the unclean animals he was to take 7. Just like you said.

Now as for the bad thing that happen, has anyone here read the book of Job?

God may allow bad things to happen around us and to us. But he isn't the author of those things.
It is my belief the Satan is also rather powerful, and his plan is to shake the faith of believer by allowing bad **** to happen.
In that same vein, those that don't believe, have their unbelief bolstered by the fact that God sometimes says "no" to prayers. He also allows Satan to bring adversity into our lives.

It isn't how a person behaves when everything is going good that shows his /her Christianity. It is how a person behaves when the **** hits the fan, and he/she is directly downwind having to deal with it that shows a Christian.

(See book of Job)--It will give you some better insight into why we believe the way we do.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

It isn't how a person behaves when everything is going good that shows his /her Christianity. It is how a person behaves when the **** hits the fan, and he/she is directly downwind having to deal with it that shows a Christian.

From reading SuperCobraJet's posts in the SpongeBob thread and here, it would seem what makes a good Christian is just how homophobic, intolerant, and judgemental you can become

Ok, maybe he is not a shining example...

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Well, I won't argue why that's a nonsensical cliché, since someone's already done it. That's really a low blow (and a tired one, at that).

True, none the less.

 

[Duke]

True, none the less.

Proof, please? Have you spoken with anyone in a foxhole lately? Have you spoken with anyone after they were killed lately?

I've been through some deep doo-doo in my life, including physical things like a gunfight between cops and criminals involving my stolen car, directly behind my apartment, terrible emotional conflicts with loved ones, the death of my father from horrific cancer and the near-death of my mother, also from cancer. And not once have I ever felt compelled to call upon some deity to help me through the situation. Not once have I cried out "why me, Lord?" Not once have I looked anywhere but my own inner strength to get through the situation.

Frankly, you seem to be one of the most pretentious, assuming, patronizing, and arrogant people I've had the (dis)pleasure of meeting lately. The fact that you apparently don't even begin to realize it makes it all the worse. Please don't take this as a personal attack. I have no idea how you behave in your three-dimensional life. But based on your words here, I'm calling that spade a spade.

 

[Danoff]

There's no such thing as a "Foxhole Atheist".

You should really see Touching the Void

It's a fantastic movie based on an actual incident in which some climbers get into a lot of trouble (one in particular). The guy in the story who you think has to die (because his situation is so bad) is the guy narrating the story - so you know he doesn't.

He gets himself in the worst possible situation one could imagine. You're thinking "the dude is dead, how is he narrating this story? There is no way that this guy would survive all that."

Right when things are looking their worst, and the guy is thinking he's done for for sure this time (he'd thought he was going to die several times earlier too) he started beating his head against a wall lamenting the loss of his own life. It's a very touching scene. And the narrator (the dude who thought he was dead) comes on and says something very beautiful.

It turns out that he was a foxhole atheist.

(rent the movie, you'll love it)

 

[Bocha]

If I don't believe in god, I sure as hell don't believe in Satan.

Same here, and thanks for the other information.

But you obviously don't read the Bible. If you go back and review the great flood you will note (with some consternation) that God instructed Noah to take two each of only the "clean" animals. (Those without cloven hooves). But of the unclean animals he was to take 7. Just like you said.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/animal/animal_1.htm
Here's the number of species on earth, tell me how Noah put all in a ship?

 

[a6m5]

Same here, and thanks for the other information.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/animal/animal_1.htm
Here's the number of species on earth, tell me how Noah put all in a ship?

Good point, Bocha. Great link too. The website says:

There probably about 13 to 14 million species, but most being insects and microscopic life forms in tropical regions.

Only about 1 3/4 million have been given scientific names. Nearly 2/3 of these are insects.

Humans and other large animals are freakishly rare life forms, since 99% of all known animal species are smaller than bumble bees.

The number of animals that survived on the ark still should've been in thousands.......... I think.

Edit:

There's no such thing as a "Foxhole Atheist".

I just wanted to add my thought on this comment. I really don't believe it was SuperCobraJet's intent to offend anyone with his comment, but this "foxhole" thing is a bit much. I would try to be little more considerate to other members if I were you, SuperCobra. I know, I'd be deeply offended if I was trying to have an discussion about religion,and someone knowing that I didn't believe in God, bring out "foxhole" argument. 👎

 

[Pako]

You should really see Touching the Void

It's a fantastic movie based on an actual incident in which some climbers get into a lot of trouble (one in particular). The guy in the story who you think has to die (because his situation is so bad) is the guy narrating the story - so you know he doesn't.

He gets himself in the worst possible situation one could imagine. You're thinking "the dude is dead, how is he narrating this story? There is no way that this guy would survive all that."

Right when things are looking their worst, and the guy is thinking he's done for for sure this time (he'd thought he was going to die several times earlier too) he started beating his head against a wall lamenting the loss of his own life. It's a very touching scene. And the narrator (the dude who thought he was dead) comes on and says something very beautiful.

It turns out that he was a foxhole atheist.

(rent the movie, you'll love it)

[off-topic response]
It was a great movie! Loved it! Could you imagine what that might have been like?

The cinematography was pretty cool to.
[/off-topic response]


I personally don't see someone without prior knowledge or understanding of God suddenly crying out to him in an effort of self preservation. Maybe in certain cases, but I can't imagine it would be the norm today. Maybe during WWI or WWII when the majority of the people fighting for the US came from predominantly Christian backgrounds. Clearly a guess on my part as I have not read or researched religious background stats of our soldiers during those times, but that would be my guess.

 

[sn00pie]

True, none the less.

I don't know what I'd do when someone would say that to my face (in an extremely arrogant fashion such as this).

 

[SuperCobraJet]

From reading SuperCobraJet's posts in the SpongeBob thread and here, it would seem what makes a good Christian is just how homophobic, intolerant, and judgemental you can become

Ok, maybe he is not a shining example...

I'm very glad you decided to make this comment. As a follower of JESUS I am to always speak the truth in love. As is my tendency I will often go heavy on the truth and a little light on the love, but as I've freely admitted already, were all
flawed. (the LORD is helping me with this) Sometimes the truth is impossible to
sugarcoat and is more like a like a bright light that hurts your eyes. I find it interesting that just because someone doesn't agree with you there homophobic,
intolerant, and judgemental.

 

[Anderton Prime]

You've convinced no one here that you're innocent of these qualities you're accused of harboring. One need look no further than your post in the Sponge thread regarding how homosexuals are responsible for the AIDS epidemic to know where your true personality lies.

Or are you going to deny that you said that too? You've already pissed Ten off more than any other member has ever managed to do on GTP.

 

[Danoff]

As a follower of JESUS I am to always speak the truth in love.

Care to respond to my example of someone who was a foxhole atheist, destroying your theory that there are none?

Care to respond to anything anyone posts that contradicts what you say?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I find it interesting that just because someone doesn't agree with you there homophobic,
intolerant, and judgemental.

I'm sure you are embarrassing your fellow Christians by now, as much as you are embarrassing your fellow man

It's not because I disagree with you that I call you that...it's because you are.

but christians will make their voices heard throughout america concerning homosexuality, so get used to it

Rather strongly put but true none the less. If your wondering why you need not look far, checkout the "Gift" thread in this forum.

The truth about you is pretty hard to sugar coat

Thanks Anderton, I see you got in there before me about SpongeBob

 

[Pako]

Care to respond to my example of someone who was a foxhole atheist, destroying your theory that there are none?

Care to respond to anything anyone posts that contradicts what you say?

I'll let SuperCobraJet respond to your direct question but I can certainly see more agnostics coming to an understanding or a willingness to entertain the thought that Jesus is the supreme being that they know must exist. I would say this for someone with western influences. They might pick a different doctrine or 'savior' like Budda if they were from eastern influences. (not sure if Budda saved anyone, but you get my drift) Atheists, having a stronger hold on what they believe, would be less likely to change their belief system as they have already accepted a finite existence.

Again, more assumptions on my part, but that would be my guess.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Proof, please? Have you spoken with anyone in a foxhole lately? Have you spoken with anyone after they were killed lately?

Not lately, but over the years eveyone that I have, without exception, has said it is so.
No, neither should, you.

I've been through some deep doo-doo in my life, including physical things like a gunfight between cops and criminals involving my stolen car, directly behind my apartment, terrible emotional conflicts with loved ones, the death of my father from horrific cancer and the near-death of my mother, also from cancer.

I'm sorry about your Dad, I hope he did not suffer much.
I hope your Mom will recover completely.
I'm sure I can speak for the other christians on here by saying we would love to
pray for her if you don't mind.

And not once have I ever felt compelled to call upon some deity to help me through the situation. Not once have I cried out "why me, Lord?" Not once have I looked anywhere but my own inner strength to get through the situation.

Even though you have managed thus far, it does not guarantee it will not fail you
at some point in the future. Nor does it invalidate the fact that you could look to l
a higher power to help you and receive help.

Frankly, you seem to be one of the most pretentious, assuming, patronizing, and arrogant people I've had the (dis)pleasure of meeting lately. The fact that you apparently don't even begin to realize it makes it all the worse. Please don't take this as a personal attack. I have no idea how you behave in your three-dimensional life. But based on your words here, I'm calling that spade a spade.

YOU yell PROOF,PROOF but when a legitimate statement for proof is offered you get mad and resort to name calling. I ask you, who is being truly objective here.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I'm sure you are embarrassing your fellow Christians by now, as much as you are embarrassing your fellow man

It's not because I disagree with you that I call you that...it's because you are.



The truth about you is pretty hard to sugar coat

Thanks Anderton, I see you got in there before me about SpongeBob

When you correct what you mistakenly listed as my quote I might.

 

[Danoff]

Even though you have managed thus far, it does not guarantee it will not fail you
at some point in the future.

You can offer no more guarantee that your faith will not fail you than he can offer a guarantee that his lack of faith will not fail him.

But I have provided you with an example of a foxhole atheist, so let it go.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Care to respond to anything anyone posts that contradicts what you say?[/QUOTE]
I have so far.

 

[Danoff]

I have so far.

Then respond to my last post.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Then respond to my last post.

Where's the foxhole.

 

[Danoff]

Where's the foxhole.

The guy was certain he was going to die. I think that's about as dramatic as foxholes could ever get. If he were going to turn to religion, he would have. But he didn't.

Fear of death is the foxhole.

(and you didn't respond to half of my post)

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I don't know what I'd do when someone would say that to my face (in an extremely arrogant fashion such as this).

How do you consider this arrogant? Does he not cry for proof and when its legitamately offered ,then he gets insulted! Like I said whos being truly objective
here?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

The guy was certain he was going to die. I think that's about as dramatic as foxholes could ever get. If he were going to turn to religion, he would have. But he didn't.

Fear of death is the foxhole.

(and you didn't respond to half of my post)

Lets just assume you have one example here. How many do you think there are
that go the other way?

 

[Anderton Prime]

SuperCobraJet, let's go waaay back to page 6 of this thread, to your very first post, and see how you initially presented yourself to everyone else here. I think this might help you understand the resistance you are experiencing...

Christians cannot accept deliverance thru another Faith because there isn't any. There is only one name given by which man must be saved. One sacrifice for all.

Right here, you've told us all that you're unwilling to a) be objective, or b) argue intellectually. If you and I were to argue over which car is the best and I said, "Being a Pontiac owner, I believe there is no superior car and I absolutely cannot and will not accept a different opinion," the argument would be doomed right from the start.

As a Christian we are obligated to tell you about it (God would have all men come unto the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ).

Right there you've shown everyone how you are fully capable of MISREADING the Bible. The quote you supplied does NOT say it is your duty to spread Christianity to others, merely that God would like it if all people were Christian. This is the first time you ran into trouble with the whole "providing proof" problem, and it was in your...SURPRISE, first post!!!

Although, I suppose you did justify yourself - if rather crudely - with this reasoning:

As for Proof, you dont get saved by Proof, but by Faith.

Honestly, you backed yourself into a corner faster than anyone I've ever seen on this site. And now, instead of realizing you're trapped, you've bitten your arm off and are using it to flail about and try to smear everyone else in here with your righteous blood.

You make me ashamed to be Christian; you are giving the religion a VERY bad rap. But knowing you, you'll just keep on keeping on until you turn blue.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

You've convinced no one here that you're innocent of these qualities you're accused of harboring. One need look no further than your post in the Sponge thread regarding how homosexuals are responsible for the AIDS epidemic to know where your true personality lies.

Or are you going to deny that you said that too? You've already pissed Ten off more than any other member has ever managed to do on GTP.

Let me ask you something, what is the theme of the "Gift" thread.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

SuperCobraJet, let's go waaay back to page 6 of this thread, to your very first post, and see how you initially presented yourself to everyone else here. I think this might help you understand the resistance you are experiencing...



Right here, you've told us all that you're unwilling to a) be objective, or b) argue intellectually. If you and I were to argue over which car is the best and I said, "Being a Pontiac owner, I believe there is no superior car and I absolutely cannot and will not accept a different opinion," the argument would be doomed right from the start.



Right there you've shown everyone how you are fully capable of MISREADING the Bible. The quote you supplied does NOT say it is your duty to spread Christianity to others, merely that God would like it if all people were Christian. This is the first time you ran into trouble with the whole "providing proof" problem, and it was in your...SURPRISE, first post!!!

Although, I suppose you did justify yourself - if rather crudely - with this reasoning:



Honestly, you backed yourself into a corner faster than anyone I've ever seen on this site. And now, instead of realizing you're trapped, you've bitten your arm off and are using it to flail about and try to smear everyone else in here with your righteous blood.

You make me ashamed to be Christian; you are giving the religion a VERY bad rap. But knowing you, you'll just keep on keeping on until you turn blue.

So I'm not entitled to my opinion like everyone else then?