Questioning Religion

[Anderton Prime]

RESPOND TO MY POST! STOP ASKING QUESTIONS IN RESPONSE TO QUESTIONS ASKED OF YOU! For the love of GOD!

 

[SuperCobraJet]

RESPOND TO MY POST! STOP ASKING QUESTIONS IN RESPONSE TO QUESTIONS ASKED OF YOU! For the love of GOD!

Which one?345

 

[Pako]

I need to remind the participants in the thread to keep the tone of posts civil and at best without emotional frustration. As best we can, stay on topic with the discussion at hand, and respect one another.

I have seen some good discussion in here and want to keep it productive.

 

[Danoff]

Lets just assume you have one example here. How many do you think there are
that go the other way?

Does it matter? How many do you think go the other way? You said:

there are no foxhole atheists.


I proved that wrong. Now you want to tell me that you have evidence that people magically convert when put into rough situations? Even if you could prove that (which you can't) it doesn't help you prove the existance of God or legitimize your faith. Just because people like the idea of immortality doesn't mean it's real. I like the idea of immortality too, I just can't convince myself that it's real.

 

[Duke]

Not lately, but over the years eveyone that I have, without exception, has said it is so.

Everyone? Just because 'everyone' says it does not make it so. Need I remind you of a few things like 'the Earth is flat', 'the Earth is the center of the Universe', etc. that 'everyone' said...

I'm sorry about your Dad, I hope he did not suffer much.
I hope your Mom will recover completely.

Thank you for the sympathy and good wishes.

I'm sure I can speak for the other christians on here by saying we would love to pray for her if you don't mind.

I'll take this in the spirit with which it's offered. I don't see the point in getting offended about it - but I have to say I find it fairly irrelevant. But again, thank you for the good wishes.

Even though you have managed thus far, it does not guarantee it will not fail you at some point in the future. Nor does it invalidate the fact that you could look to a higher power to help you and receive help.

Perhaps my spirit will fail. It hasn't yet. However, my experience does not validate that I could receive help from above, either. As I've mentioned previously, if you believe everything you don't have evidence against, that's going to be a mighty long list... infinitely long. And besides, as danoff mentions, there's absolutely no evidence that the 'higher power' might not also fail me.

YOU yell PROOF,PROOF but when a legitimate statement for proof is offered you get mad and resort to name calling. I ask you, who is being truly objective here.

Offer me a legitimate statement of proof and I will avoid namecalling. However, your response of "still true" is really quite arrogant because it implies that you know me better than I know myself. It implies that you know I will turn to god if the chips get far enough down... and frankly you have no grounds to assume that. I do apologize for the 'namecalling', but note that I did take care to separate your words here from you as a person. Truthfully, the description of your actions is pretty accurate.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Perhaps my spirit will fail. It hasn't yet. However, my experience does not validate that I could receive help from above, either. As I've mentioned previously, if you believe everything you don't have evidence against, that's going to be a mighty long list... infinitely long. And besides, as danoff mentions, there's absolutely no evidence that the 'higher power' might not also fail me..

I guess it depends on what your definition of evidence is. There are Millions of testimonies, I guess they could all be false,but I doubt it. God is faithful. So far, I've found that to be absolutely true.

Offer me a legitimate statement of proof and I will avoid namecalling. However, your response of "still true" is really quite arrogant because it implies that you know me better than I know myself. It implies that you know I will turn to god if the chips get far enough down... and frankly you have no grounds to assume that. I do apologize for the 'namecalling', but note that I did take care to separate your words here from you as a person. Truthfully, the description of your actions is pretty accurate.

I see your point. Although I beleive the odds were heavily in my favor, it was still
an assumption. Sorry my mistake.

 

[Famine]

I guess it depends on what your definition of evidence is. There are Millions of testimonies, I guess they could all be false,but I doubt it. God is faithful. So far, I've found that to be absolutely true.

Documented and independantly verified first-hand evidence.


There's millions of testimonies from lottery scratchcard jackpot winners. 'Nuff said.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

As has been said previously, the subject matter in this thread is about
as "touchy" as it gets. Even so, as you might have noticed, I intend to probe, challenge, and test the beliefs here, wherein subjecting mine to the same. This is not always possible using the "Can't we all get along" methodology. Inevitably, some toes will get stepped on from time to time but after the discussion over that is precisely what we must do.

 

[Famine]

I intend to probe, challenge, and test the beliefs here, wherein subjecting mine to the same.

Looks like you're nought and four.

You've posted scripture, doctrine and non-independant internet material, none of which can probe, challenge or test anything in any serious scientific way. And all the time you've been convinced of how right you are and ignored anyone who has said anything to the contrary - except that you'd pray for them.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

When you correct what you mistakenly listed as my quote I might.

Are you in denial?

Here is a link to your post.

SuperCJ, you are becoming a comedy legend

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Are you in denial?

Here is a link to your post.

SuperCJ, you are becoming a comedy legend

Not that it makes much difference but if you back up to post 69 you will see
XVII originally made the first part of that quote.
Are you advocating abolishing freedom of speech too.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Looks like you're nought and four.

You've posted scripture, doctrine and non-independant internet material, none of which can probe, challenge or test anything in any serious scientific way. And all the time you've been convinced of how right you are and ignored anyone who has said anything to the contrary - except that you'd pray for them.

Tell all those guys in jail, a witnesses testimony isn't seriously scientific enough.
I rest my case.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

XVII originally made the first part of that quote.
Are you advocating abolishing freedom of speech too.

So you admit saying it now

I see it still doesn't bother you...oh well

For your information, there are limits to freedom of speech. Such as inciting violence, spreading hate and promoting prejudice or discrimination.

Just so you know

 

[Duke]

...and also this forum is private property, not public, so "freedom of speech" means "whatever the owner says it means".

Just so you know

 

[SuperCobraJet]

...and also this forum is private property, not public, so "freedom of speech" means "whatever the owner says it means".

Just so you know

I was referring to it as mentioned in post 90 of that same thread

 

[SuperCobraJet]

So you admit saying it now

I see it still doesn't bother you...oh well

For your information, there are limits to freedom of speech. Such as inciting violence, spreading hate and promoting prejudice or discrimination.

Just so you know

I'd say you'd have a tough time getting any of those by the U.S. Supreme court
unless the violence was against the government.

 

[PS]

Hes saying those are the constraints, not the privelidges. If you were to promote hate, injustice, prejudice, or violence, that would be a violence of citizens rights, not the freedom of speach act.

 

[Delirious]

Matthew 13:13, 14

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

we can talk to these guys until our fingers are sore from typing so much...but were just throwing stuff at a wall...

 

[Ten]

Let me ask you something, what is the theme of the "Gift" thread.

PEOPLE who are spreading HIV willingly. The fact that they are homosexual has little to...

No. Forget it. There's no making sense of the senseless. Just knock it off, becuase you're taking things too far now. I happen to be a homosexual - I, as well as my partner of the time - were tested every single time we wanted to engage in intercourse. If him or I turned up positive, that would have been it. I would find myself living a life of abstinence, if only for the safety of others I share a bed with.

But I suppose being a homosexual, I'm going to be consumed by some inner evil and be compelled to contract and spread HIV in a festive manner.

You really aren't aware of how bad generalizations like that hurt, are you?

we can talk to these guys until our fingers are sore from typing so much...but were just throwing stuff at a wall...

You're damn right. One hell of a strong wall, at that. One that stands on its own - without the support of someone else dictating how and where it should.

I realize and admit that your wall is quite strong as well. All I ask is that you both stop trying to knock mine down.

 

[Famine]

Tell all those guys in jail, a witnesses testimony isn't seriously scientific enough.
I rest my case.

I'm glad - because an eye-witness testimony on its own has NEVER been enough to secure a conviction of ANYONE. Where eye-witness accounts have been used as evidence they have always had to be corroborated by other physical evidence.

For Fangio's sakes - eye witnesses reported seeing the plane that hit the Pentagon "climb sharply and disappear".

Eye witness testimony is the single worst piece of evidence ever - people can be fooled into seeing anything you want them to. And worse, they can miss things which are plain to see.

 

[ledhed]

If they could not then magicians and illusionist would be out of business. If Kreskin or Penn & teller lived at the time of the roman Empire we would most likely be worshiping them at the church of Kreskin or Penn & Teller temple.

 

[Famine]

I would SO go to the Church of Penn & Teller.

There IS a God, and he likes blood and gore...

 

[Danoff]

Tell all those guys in jail, a witnesses testimony isn't seriously scientific enough.
I rest my case.

I'm glad - because an eye-witness testimony on its own has NEVER been enough to secure a conviction of ANYONE. Where eye-witness accounts have been used as evidence they have always had to be corroborated by other physical evidence.

Nor does Christianity have eye-witness accounts of most of what the bible professes. They have eye-witnesses that heard a guy say that God did such-and-such on the 2nd day, or the afterlife will be a certain way.

The bible has documented eye-witness accounts to strange happenings, but nothing that proves anything about the formation of the world or an afterlife. Let me put it planely. When the bible says:

"And on the second day, God created..."

What the bible means is: "I (the author) heard somewhere that on the second day God created.." it does not mean " I (the author) was there on the second day and saw God create..."


However, even if the bible did have that, there is no cross examination. No way to determine the credibility of the witness.


So I come to two conclusions:

1) The bible does not have an eye-witness account of most of what it professes (so don't claim that it does).
2) Even what little eye-witness accounting that goes on in the bible leaves us with no way to establish the credibility of the claim (so it's not a good argument).

Bottom line: Don't use the bible as proof of God or an afterlife. Find some real proof.

 

[Famine]

Bottom line: Don't use the bible as proof of God or an afterlife. Find some real proof.

That's pretty much secondary. Mostly they use the Bible as proof of the Bible. Which is just bizarre.

 

[Ghost C]

Let me ask you something, what is the theme of the "Gift" thread.

The documentary "The Gift" is about stupid people who make stupid decisions. They happened to be homosexuals. Nobody is immune from stupid decisions, you're no exception.

I'll say this again, don't twist the topic of the thread or documentary to fit your agenda. I don't like homosexuals either, but you don't see me stereotyping all homosexuals to be the same as the ones in the movie.

Back on topic, I hate religion. It's quite possibly the worst idea ever implemented, and the bible is full of it.

Fun fact: The word for "young woman of marrying age" was mistranslated as "virgin" in reference to the virgin Mary.

 

[Ten]

I'll say this again, don't twist the topic of the thread or documentary to fit your agenda. I don't like homosexuals either, but you don't see me stereotyping all homosexuals to be the same as the ones in the movie.

Thanks for that, Ghost. I appreciate it. ^^

 

[PS]

I think this thread has officially been diagnosed with cancer. I give it a day to live. I GIVE IT A DAY TO LIVE.

 

[Gil]

Personally, I believe that this argument, while quite interesting, is a bit moot.
Those that don't believe in God, are not going to come to any epiphany about God without some firsthand "proof" of his existence.
Those of us who do believe, aren't going to stop believing.

I have seen some things that I don't think can be explained by anything other than a divine source of intervention.
I was present when a woman I knew was healed from arthritis. I saw the color come back into her hands. I saw her range of motion increase, and the strength come back to her hands. I might have thought it was BS, if I hadn't known the woman for a good length of time before she was healed.
I also grew up in a Christian household that didn't hold with God doing any healing once the apostles were dead. But here I had seen it with my own eyes. Made me do some major thinking and re-thinking of my faith.
On a personal note, I lived in a west Tennessee town un-accosted, and eventually accepted by the "townies"/locals as an African-American man married to a European American woman (that's "white" to all you non-politically correct peeps), and an increasing number of mixed race children. I find that to be a God-inspired miracle.

 

[Famine]

I think this thread has officially been diagnosed with cancer. I give it a day to live. I GIVE IT A DAY TO LIVE.

Never mind. A little bit of faith and prayer and it can be resurrected.

Gil: That second thing IS a miracle...

 

[Gil]

Never mind. A little bit of faith and prayer and it can be resurrected.

Gil: That second thing IS a miracle...

I rest my case.