Religion is contrived

[Famine]

No, I don't think that at all. However, remember the era you're talking about here.

 

[Delirious]

if you guys wont give me a list, maybe ill start asking questions

why is the bible the best selling book of all time and the number one book translated into the most languages?

Number of languages the Bible has been translated into: More than 1,200 (as of 2001)

Number of new Bibles distributed (sold or given away) in the U.S.: About 168,000 per day (as of 2001)

im sure those number are a little bit bigger now

 

[PS]

Because it's been around forever and it takes a lot of books to make a good fire.

 

[Delirious]

so books like odyssey and books by homer and etc...all those greek mythology books...even those dating back previous to the full printing of the bible...

since they are around the same time and some even older, why arent those best sellers and translated into so many languages?

you can burn printed text and paper...but the actual words that the Bible has i believe will never be consumed/burnt up by this world

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I mean, look at Rome. They trried to destroy christianity in a similar way that Hitler tried to destroy the Hebrews.

What?!...it was the Romans that gave the Bible new life. The Codex Vaticanus around AD500, it's the version you read now.
Where on earth do you get your facts?
Why do you think you use Roman numerals...see XVII or whatever his name is

In the UK during the 1990's 110 new churches were opened, but 220 closed....go figure.

...anyone? systematically answering questions one at a time?

I'm not really in the mood for regurgitated Christian dogma, but since this thread is about religion and not just Christianity. How about you tell me how to achieve quiescence through the stages of Chien and K'un

 

[Delirious]

How about you tell me how to achieve quiescence through the stages of Chien and K'un

what does that have to do with anything concerning the bible?

by the way, i thought the KJV was translated from the textus receptus (im not catholic)

 

[240Z]

if you guys wont give me a list, maybe ill start asking questions

why is the bible the best selling book of all time and the number one book translated into the most languages?

Number of languages the Bible has been translated into: More than 1,200 (as of 2001)

Number of new Bibles distributed (sold or given away) in the U.S.: About 168,000 per day (as of 2001)

im sure those number are a little bit bigger now

Because there are a lot of Christians/people trying to convert people to be Christian. How is this relevant?

 

[Duke]

Notice it says "...or given away". That doesn't mean people are buying them. Every US hotel room I've ever stayed in has a Bible in it; what do you think that would do for Tom Clancy's sales figures? Or maybe if John Grisham had missionaries distributing door-to-door for him?

 

[Pako]

Because it's been around forever and it takes a lot of books to make a good fire.

I've seen better contributions from 10 year olds in the drifting forum. Please add value to the thread or refrain from posting.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

what does that have to do with anything concerning the bible?

Exactly...not everything is connected to the bible...well spotted

There are other religion's that could be discussed here that aren't quite so soaked in dogma, or driven by fear.

 

[Swift]

What?!...it was the Romans that gave the Bible new life. The Codex Vaticanus around AD500, it's the version you read now.
Where on earth do you get your facts?
Why do you think you use Roman numerals...see XVII or whatever his name is

In the UK during the 1990's 110 new churches were opened, but 220 closed....go figure.

I'm not really in the mood for regurgitated Christian dogma, but since this thread is about religion and not just Christianity. How about you tell me how to achieve quiescence through the stages of Chien and K'un

Hmm...you've never heard of nero? Lighting the path of his chariots with christians burned at the stake. Or having them fed to the lions in the colissium for sport? Sure, things in Rome changed, but it wasn't always like that. Just like things in Germany have changed.

About the churches closing. Well, that just doesn't have too much relevance. The people from the closed ones easily could've just went to other churches.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Hmm...you've never heard of nero? Lighting the path of his chariots with christians burned at the stake. Or having them fed to the lions in the colissium for sport? Sure, things in Rome changed, but it wasn't always like that. Just like things in Germany have changed.

You'll find that the Romans were more concerned with the Carthaginians after the humiliating defeat at Cannae by the hands of Hannibal, and they had a problem or two with the prosperous Greeks.

About the churches closing. Well, that just doesn't have too much relevance. The people from the closed ones easily could've just went to other churches.

Yes..they went to Synagogues and Mosques

Edit: It was 220 Churches per year that closed during the 90's, that's over 2000 Churches shut down due to lack of attendance.

 

[Swift]

Exactly...not everything is connected to the bible...well spotted

There are other religion's that could be discussed here that aren't quite so soaked in dogma, or driven by fear.

And who said I serve God because I'm afraid of anything? Fear, as you are thinking of it has nothing to do with it. When I say that I "fear God" it's not like I'm afraid he's going to zap me to hell if I don't do exactly what he says. It's more like how you fear the power of the sun(from Malcolm X). Or, Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power. That's the kind of fear we're talking about.

Edit: It was 220 Churches per year that closed during the 90's, that's over 2000 Churches shut down due to lack of attendance.

And you know it was because lack of attendance?

 

[PS]

I've seen better contributions from 10 year olds in the drifting forum. Please add value to the thread or refrain from posting.

I know it was mean, but it answered his question.

[/end Farenheit 451]

 

[Tacet_Blue]

And who said I serve God because I'm afraid of anything? Fear, as you are thinking of it has nothing to do with it. When I say that I "fear God" it's not like I'm afraid he's going to zap me to hell if I don't do exactly what he says. It's more like how you fear the power of the sun(from Malcolm X). Or, Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power. That's the kind of fear we're talking about.
And you know it was because lack of attendance?

Fear however you phrase it...

Prov 16:6 (NEB) ...the fear of the Lord makes men turn from evil.

Job 28:28 (NEB) ..."The fear of the Lord is wisdom, and to turn from evil is understanding."

Jer 5:22 (NIV) "Should you not fear me?" declares the Lord. "Should you not tremble in my presence?"

Prov 8:13 (NIV) To fear the Lord is to hate evil.

Ps 111:10 (NEB) The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and they who live by it grow in understanding...

Prov 9:10 (NEB) The first step to wisdom is the fear of the Lord, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Ps 19:9 (NIV) The fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever.

and of course all that burn in hell ye sinner stuff

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

I am not afraid of dying, I do not fear hell, and do not seek solace in a supreme power...my life is good thankyou
I intend to enjoy it to its full. Almost to the point of hedonism. I'm sure that's probably a sin too

 

[Swift]

Fear however you phrase it...

Prov 16:6 (NEB) ...the fear of the Lord makes men turn from evil.

Job 28:28 (NEB) ..."The fear of the Lord is wisdom, and to turn from evil is understanding."

Jer 5:22 (NIV) "Should you not fear me?" declares the Lord. "Should you not tremble in my presence?"

Prov 8:13 (NIV) To fear the Lord is to hate evil.

Ps 111:10 (NEB) The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and they who live by it grow in understanding...

Prov 9:10 (NEB) The first step to wisdom is the fear of the Lord, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Ps 19:9 (NIV) The fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever.

and of course all that burn in hell ye sinner stuff

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

I am not afraid of dying, I do not fear hell, and do not seek solace in a supreme power...my life is good thankyou
I intend to enjoy it to its full. Almost to the point of hedonism. I'm sure that's probably a sin too

Now you're saying that the definition of a word doesn't matter?

Oh well, with the scriptures you posted you more then proved my point of what biblical fear is. Thanks 👍

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Now you're saying that the definition of a word doesn't matter?

Fear is fear...I don't know what you mean by definition, it's the same word

Oh well, with the scriptures you posted you more then proved my point of what biblical fear is. Thanks 👍

Well first you said there is no fear, then you thank me for making it clear as to what biblical fear is...

Some religions don't require you to fear your God quite so much.

Anyway have a good one, I'm off to sin a little bit more

OT: Well done Liverpool 👍

 

[Swift]

Fear is fear...I don't know what you mean by definition, it's the same word


Well first you said there is no fear, then you thank me for making it clear as to what biblical fear is...

Some religions don't require you to fear your God quite so much.

Anyway have a good one, I'm off to sin a little bit more

OT: Well done Liverpool 👍

Hmmm...If I say it's the second "round" of a boxing match and then I say that the table is "round" is that the same thing? Nope. How can you dispute that the meaning of biblical fear is not what you keep thinking it is. But a great respect or awe. It's quite simple. I don't see the issue. Check your dictionary if you don't believe me.

I never said there was no fear. I said that I wasn't in "fear" as you are saying. It's different.

 

[Pako]

Had to look it up:

fear, reverence, awe, veneration
a profound emotion inspired by a deity; "the fear of God"

 

[Swift]

Tacet Blue, now that we have confirmed info about what it means to "fear" God, what else would you like to cover?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Tacet Blue, now that we have confirmed info about what it means to "fear" God, what else would you like to cover?

How about all the fearing the wrath of God stuff, the eternal damnation in flames and the punishment for breaking commandments and sinning.

I can sin as much as I like...you on the other hand live in fear of retribution...that's the fear I'm talking about, not the "profound emotion inspired by a deity"; "the fear of God",
btw that was the ninth definition down on google ;

Enough of that, tell me more of the Quiescence

 

[Swift]

How about all the fearing the wrath of God stuff, the eternal damnation in flames and the punishment for breaking commandments and sinning.

I can sin as much as I like...you on the other hand live in fear of retribution...that's the fear I'm talking about, not the "profound emotion inspired by a deity"; "the fear of God",
btw that was the ninth definition down on google ;

Enough of that, tell me more of the Quiescence

Actually, no. I live in the Grace of God. See, in the old testament the hebrews didn't have a personal relationship with God. The had to atone for there sins by killing an animal in most cases. This pushed the punishment forward to Jesus. He died for all sins past present and future.

I don't sin because I love Jesus too much. It has nothing to do with going to hell and all that. I know that I know that I know I'm going to heaven. So I'm not worried about myself going to hell. I'm concerned with getting others on the right road.

As far as following Jesus' commandments. Jesus said this:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Isn't that true of anyone that you love. You do your best not to let them down or intentionally hurt them. Right?

EDIT: Does the number of the definition make it any less valid? I'm thinking no. Also, you can't sin because you don't believe in God. So for you, sin is irrelevant.

 

[Pako]

How about all the fearing the wrath of God stuff, the eternal damnation in flames and the punishment for breaking commandments and sinning.

I can sin as much as I like...you on the other hand live in fear of retribution...that's the fear I'm talking about, not the "profound emotion inspired by a deity"; "the fear of God",
btw that was the ninth definition down on google ;

Enough of that, tell me more of the Quiescence

I can guess how Swift feels, but my own experience is that I don't fear going to hell, but what I feel is ashamed and even sad for disappointing God. God receives pleasure from us when we praise him and bring him glory, and he's saddened when we don't.

The Fear definition that I copied was the second one, #1 was the traditional meaning of fear.

I'll let Swift address Quiescence..... You guys use such big words.

 

[Danoff]

God receives pleasure from us when we praise him and bring him glory, and he's saddened when we don't.

How do you know?

 

[GT4Mania]

To all those who still trust scientifical (is that how we type it?) proofs to explain everything that happened in the Bible, I think it's non-sense. A few weeks ago, a TV show on TLC tried to explain and to refute the idea of Noah's story. One of their arguments was that such a big boat made of 100% wood could not stand on its own, and that it needed steel, just like we construct our boats today.

My question is : Faith, isn't it believing without seeing? Believing without seeing implies believing without asking questions. Here mankind is, trying to explain everything from HIS knowledge and from what HE knows of this world. What do we really know from this world? If life really started from a big explosion, then what's the point of living it? What's the sense of your life? What do you live for? Danoff, what do you live for? Study, work, fun, family, money, your kids of you have some, women, success, perfomance? When you die some day, what's happening to all the thins you accumulate on earth? What's gonna happen to all the relationships you had? To study, work, fun you had, money you accumulated, family, etc. All this stays on earth.

Ever wondered where your soul would go? God made us according to His image (Genesis), so that we can live forever, but not on this earth. This is why animals don't have our intelligence or our knowledge. Here you are, with a conscience now, living and doing everything you want, but when you die, all this stays on earth. If there's no life after death (no Christianity), what's the sense of life?

What do you live for? You live, waiting to die , but then you don't know what's after death. Without Christianity, you see death as an END. With Christ, it is a new beginning. This is the hope Christ has left with His death on the cross and His resurrection.

 

[Famine]

believing without asking questions

Gotcha. Believe what we say - don't think for yourself.

Here mankind is, trying to explain everything from HIS knowledge and from what HE knows of this world. What do we really know from this world?

And this is where we differ.

I say that the Bible was written by people trying to explain things, but without any scientific knowledge at all, or, as you put it, from THEIR knowledge and from what THEY knew of the world. You say that the Bible was written by God through men. I say it's a book, you say it's the infallible word of God.

Since the Bible's inception the world has changed a lot. Thus we know a lot more about the world than they did. You think it was written by God through men and thus obviously won't change since he knows everything.

How did Penguins survive on the Ark?

If life really started from a big explosion, then what's the point of living it? What's the sense of your life? What do you live for?

And that's the thing religious types can't wrap their heads round. They'd go NUTS if the universe turned out not to be made by God at all. Yet there's so many of us who can get by safely in the knowledge that there isn't a God. In fact many of us are even "good citizens", who help people out and do good things because we feel like doing them...

Ever wondered where your soul would go?

Have you ever wondered where your fisnazzle would go?

God made us according to His image

So God's eyes really are worse than a cuttlefish's. And he can't smell as well as a raccoon. Or hear as well as a minke whale. And so on.

If there's no life after death (no Christianity), what's the sense of life?

If there's infinite life after death in paradise, what's the point of 78 years of crap on Earth?

What do you live for? You live, waiting to die , but then you don't know what's after death. Without Christianity, you see death as an END. With Christ, it is a new beginning. This is the hope Christ has left with His death on the cross and His resurrection.

And with Christianity you think that you'll live forever once your shuffle off this mortal coil. So you live HOPING to die. Makes sense? I'd have to dose up before that added up in my head.

 

[Duke]

If there's no life after death (no Christianity), what's the sense of life?

What do you live for? You live, waiting to die

Speaking as an atheist, I could not disagree more strongly with this statement.

 

[Danoff]

Danoff, what do you live for? Study, work, fun, family, money, your kids of you have some, women, success, perfomance?

I live for lots of things. I live to further mankind through productivity and innovation (the non-religious man's way of becoming immortal). I live to teach others (my future children included - another way of becoming immortal) and to enjoy life itself. I live to gain understanding through experience AND logic.

When you die some day, what's happening to all the thins you accumulate on earth? What's gonna happen to all the relationships you had? To study, work, fun you had, money you accumulated, family, etc. All this stays on earth.

Yup. It all stays on earth while I cease to exist. But the impression I made while I was here is what is left of me.

Ever wondered where your soul would go?

I don't know what this soul thing is you speak of. I've never experienced it and don't believe in it.

God made us according to His image (Genesis), so that we can live forever, but not on this earth.

How do you know that Genesis is accurate? I have lots of reasons to believe it isn't.

This is why animals don't have our intelligence or our knowledge.

Or it's because we were the first animals to achieve that (as it would eventually HAVE to occur) through natural selection.

If there's no life after death (no Christianity), what's the sense of life?

Again, to make an impression in the world - to live on through the way you changed the lives that come after you (and the ones that you interact with now). But also to experience.

What do you live for? You live, waiting to die

Not at all. I've never wished for death (though I have come close).

but then you don't know what's after death.

I have a pretty good idea - same thing that happens before you were born. Nothing.

With Christ, it is a new beginning. This is the hope Christ has left with His death on the cross and His resurrection.

Acknowledged - and it's a lovely thought. I can see why it is so appealing and why so many people cling to it in the face of evidence to the contrary. That's also, interestingly enough, why it seems so contrived.

 

[Pako]

Speaking as an atheist, I could not disagree more strongly with this statement.

Again, no one can nor should they assume how you feel. However, I can personally testify that my life after Christ is much, much better than before Christ.

 

[Swift]

Again, no one can nor should they assume how you feel. However, I can personally testify that my life after Christ is much, much better than before Christ.

Excellent response. I can attest the same thing for the last five years of my life as well.