Religion is contrived

[Danoff]

Again, no one can nor should they assume how you feel. However, I can personally testify that my life after Christ is much, much better than before Christ.

Excellent response. I can attest the same thing for the last five years of my life as well.

I can understand this. I think my life would probably be a little rosier if I believed in God too. I'd get to live forever - most of that time spent in eternal bliss. All of my questions would be answered eventually. I could trust that God is looking over my family at all times and has a plan for me. That would be great!! The uncertainty that would be eliminated!!!

But of course that doesn't make it true - and how great it sounds only adds to my argument that it sounds made up.

 

[Swift]

I can understand this. I think my life would probably be a little rosier if I believed in God too. I'd get to live forever - most of that time spent in eternal bliss. All of my questions would be answered eventually. I could trust that God is looking over my family at all times and has a plan for me. That would be great!! The uncertainty that would be eliminated!!!

But of course that doesn't make it true - and how great it sounds only adds to my argument that it sounds made up.

No, it doesn't make it true to you. Big difference.

 

[Danoff]

No, it doesn't make it true to you. Big difference.

..and that argument DOES work for YOU???

So let's apply that reasoning to other things. It would be nice if tomorrow I were going to find 2 million dollars. My life right now would be a lot roiser if I knew that tomorrow I were going to stumble upon that cash.

That doesn't make it true.

Now tell me you can use that reasoning to try to argue that God exists.

 

[Swift]

..and that argument DOES work for YOU???

So let's apply that reasoning to other things. It would be nice if tomorrow I were going to find 2 million dollars. My life right now would be a lot roiser if I knew that tomorrow I were going to stumble upon that cash.

That doesn't make it true.

Now tell me you can use that reasoning to try to argue that God exists.

How did I use that reasoning for explaining how God exists. He does exist. I believe it. Now, what I said was in direct reference to what you called "true" Your truth is what you have come up with from what you can observe with your 5 senses. So, fine. To you that's truth.

My truth isn't limited to this world or what I can see, taste, touch, hear and smell. I have faith in something outside of myself and you simply do not. That's really all there is too it. Perception is reality and we get our truth from our reality. If you don't percive that God is real to you then it can never be a part of your truth.

 

[Danoff]

My truth isn't limited to this world or what I can see, taste, touch, hear and smell. I have faith in something outside of myself and you simply do not.

Which is just another way of saying that you believe something that you have no reason to.

Here's what I said earlier:

But of course that doesn't make it true

here's what you responded with.

No, it doesn't make it true to you. Big difference.

First of all, I don't believe in the whole subjective truth thing. If everyone can have a different and equally valid take on what is true - then nothing can be true.

However, I did not make a statement that was subjective.

I said that what Pako stated - that his life was better after he became religious, does not make his religion true (not that he claimed it did). That is a fact. You cannot dispute that fact - nobody can. It isn't subjective.

I provided a counter example as to why Pako's claim cannot be used to prove his religion true. So the issue is dead. Pako's claim that his life is rosier with religion in it does not make his religion true (for anyone).

 

[Swift]

I said that what Pako stated - that his life was better after he became religious, does not make his religion true (not that he claimed it did). That is a fact. You cannot dispute that fact - nobody can. It isn't subjective.

I provided a counter example as to why Pako's claim cannot be used to prove his religion true. So the issue is dead. Pako's claim that his life is rosier with religion in it does not make his religion true (for anyone).

What? Oh, so Pako has a claim that he talks to Jesus and that he has a better life since he found Christ? That's a claim? You can't prove that he doesn't. So it's TRUE to him. But not to you. That is YOUR perception. Yeah, that is the part that's subjective. Not his statement, but your level of acceptance of the statement.

 

[Duke]

..though his perception that his life is better with God in it is of course not being questioned by anybody, since it's his life.

The awe, wonder, and 'fear' you feel about your supernatural life seems to be what I feel about my natural one. I don't feel the need to quest for some deeper purpose to my life - what more purpose can I need than to simply live it? I don't need to feel my soul will live forever - whatever time I get here on Earth will be more than I have any right to expect.

I'm at home in the physical world. There's spirit enough for me right here that I don't yearn for a supernatural world. I don't need insulation from the bad things that happen in my life, and the good things are reward in themselves.

 

[Danoff]

What? Oh, so Pako has a claim that he talks to Jesus and that he has a better life since he found Christ? That's a claim? You can't prove that he doesn't. So it's TRUE to him. But not to you. That is YOUR perception. Yeah, that is the part that's subjective. Not his statement, but your level of acceptance of the statement.

You're still missing me here...

He claimed he has found a better life through Christ. Fine, his religion has improved his life. I'm not arguing against that. Even the opposite, I said that I can totally see how being religious would make life easier. So I fundamentally understand where he's coming from when he says his life is better because he's Christian.

That is true to both of us - that Pako's life is better with is religion than it was without because I'm taking Pako's word for it.

Now here's the trick. Pako never claimed that since his life was better - that was proof that God existed. But I was saying that even though religion has improved his life - that doesn't mean that the religion is true.

Ok? There's nothing subjective about that. Just because his life has improved since he became religious doesn't mean that he's not worshipping something that doesn't exist.

Moreover, the "improvements" to his life may be unfounded because they may be based on something that isn't true. So he's convinced himself that he's going to live forever for example - that's great it means that he doesn't have to concern himself with the finality of death. But that doesn't mean that when he dies he won't simply cease to exist.

 

[GT4Mania]

Gotcha. Believe what we say - don't think for yourself.

I'll skip this.

And this is where we differ.

I say that the Bible was written by people trying to explain things, but without any scientific knowledge at all, or, as you put it, from THEIR knowledge and from what THEY knew of the world. You say that the Bible was written by God through men. I say it's a book, you say it's the infallible word of God.

Since the Bible's inception the world has changed a lot. Thus we know a lot more about the world than they did. You think it was written by God through men and thus obviously won't change since he knows everything.

The more scientists learn about the human body, nature, or whatever you like, the more they realize how complex it is. And they're the first to admit it. I'm pretty sure if you studied something about the human body, you would say it is very complex. Anywho, people wrote the Bible were not trying to explain things. Actually, what people do NOW is explaining something after studying it or seeing the phenomenon. What's in the Bible is written as it is because the witnesses actually saw what God made or heard His voice commanding something. How can you explain a "column" (is this how we say it? sorry my english sucks) of fire or the sea being divided in two? How can you explain water pouring out of a rock, right after somebody (Moses) hits it with a stick? No scientifical explanation can prove this. Unfortunately, without faith, everything that science can't explain = false to mankind.

As for the creation of the world, they say the Big Bang came from a mass of substance, that resulted from a dead star. All this mass condensed and exploded, creating the Universe. Well, where did that star come from? From other substances? Where did those come from? God says I'm the alpha and the omega. If you leave human intelligence aside for a second, an affirmation like that is much more solid than substance that came from nowhere, to explode and...

Finally, the biggest insult to a human is to tell him he came from.. a bacteria? I value myself much more when I think I came from God. (that's off-topic though)

How did Penguins survive on the Ark?[/color][/b]

Exactly. How did the Ark survive too? The Ark was 100% wood, and wooden boats with this size would crack up because of their weight. That's what I explained in my previous post. How did Christ heal the blind? The handicaped? How did He resurrect Lazarus? If Christ healed the Blind, I'm pretty sure God can make a Penguin survive. Again, if you ONLY believe what you can SENSE, then you won't believe what I just said.

And that's the thing religious types can't wrap their heads round. They'd go NUTS if the universe turned out not to be made by God at all. Yet there's so many of us who can get by safely in the knowledge that there isn't a God. In fact many of us are even "good citizens", who help people out and do good things because we feel like doing them...

I totally agree. I hang out with many people who are just like that, and they really live happily. What Christianity brings is a good life after death, not necessarely (sorry for typo) a good life on earth. Paul (in the Bible) ended up in prison, and John the Baptist was decapitaded because of God. A "good citizen" would say their life sucked if it was like that, but a Christian would not care about "78 years" on earth. What's 78 years compared to Eternity?

Have you ever wondered where your fisnazzle would go?

Answering a question by a question is saying "I don't want to answer", or "I don't know". No offense though, that's how I see it.

So God's eyes really are worse than a cuttlefish's. And he can't smell as well as a raccoon. Or hear as well as a minke whale. And so on.

God is perfect, and we will be made perfect when we resurrect, if we have accepted Christ. According to His image does not mean exactly LIKE Him.

If there's infinite life after death in paradise, what's the point of 78 years of crap on Earth?

You live on earth to prepare your eternal existence. Whatever you do on earth, you will be judged for.

And with Christianity you think that you'll live forever once your shuffle off this mortal coil. So you live HOPING to die. Makes sense? I'd have to dose up before that added up in my head.

I do not hope to die, I love my life. Ever wondered why people who suicide are NEVER REAL Christians? (real = somebody who really practices). Ever wondered why God asks us not to kill? We are to enjoy what God gives us, and not destroy it.

 

[GT4Mania]

I live for lots of things. I live to further mankind through productivity and innovation (the non-religious man's way of becoming immortal). I live to teach others (my future children included - another way of becoming immortal) and to enjoy life itself. I live to gain understanding through experience AND logic.



Yup. It all stays on earth while I cease to exist. But the impression I made while I was here is what is left of me.



I don't know what this soul thing is you speak of. I've never experienced it and don't believe in it.



How do you know that Genesis is accurate? I have lots of reasons to believe it isn't.



Or it's because we were the first animals to achieve that (as it would eventually HAVE to occur) through natural selection.



Again, to make an impression in the world - to live on through the way you changed the lives that come after you (and the ones that you interact with now). But also to experience.



Not at all. I've never wished for death (though I have come close).



I have a pretty good idea - same thing that happens before you were born. Nothing.



Acknowledged - and it's a lovely thought. I can see why it is so appealing and why so many people cling to it in the face of evidence to the contrary. That's also, interestingly enough, why it seems so contrived.

You can have all the money, all the cars, all the houses, the love, the family, EVERYTHING you dream of in this world. I would be very impressed if you could tell me nothing is missing from your life. God made us, so that we would NEED to believe in something. This is why people believe in astrology nowadays. They look for something to rely on. Human was made weak. Ever wondered why human can NEVER be satisfied? Men always want more on earth. We always make researches to live longer, to live better, etc. (Don't get me wrong, this is all good and necessary). Why are we sad when we die? Because we would love to live eternally on this earth. Somewhere, we have to slow down and realize we can never be perfect and have everything. There will always be something missing. God gave us this nature (of wanting to be perfect and to live eternally) and it was ON PURPOSE. This is what gives man interest in religion. If human weren't interested in living longer and better (in a better place), if human did not mind burning in hell for eternity, then forget about Christianity.

Our nature drives us to look for something that's not from this life, one day or another. It drives us to want more than what's on earth, because we can not be satisfied. Unfortunately, some people misunderstand this and say : I believe in someone, I don't know who. Sad.

 

[Famine]

I'll skip this.

Quite right too!

The more scientists learn about the human body, nature, or whatever you like, the more they realize how complex it is. And they're the first to admit it. I'm pretty sure if you studied something about the human body, you would say it is very complex. Anywho, people wrote the Bible were not trying to explain things. Actually, what people do NOW is explaining something after studying it or seeing the phenomenon. What's in the Bible is written as it is because the witnesses actually saw what God made or heard His voice commanding something. How can you explain a "column" (is this how we say it? sorry my english sucks) of fire or the sea being divided in two? How can you explain water pouring out of a rock, right after somebody (Moses) hits it with a stick? No scientifical explanation can prove this. Unfortunately, without faith, everything that science can't explain = false to mankind.

Afraid not.

Anything science cannot currently explain is filed under "things science cannot currently explain". It doesn't get tossed into a "can't possibly happen" file.

How can I explain a column of fire or the sea being divided in two? Wishful thinking from storytellers designed to capture the imagination.

As for the creation of the world, they say the Big Bang came from a mass of substance, that resulted from a dead star.

Nope. Nobody says that. Either you've made it up or you've got that from somewhere else which made it up.

All this mass condensed and exploded, creating the Universe. Well, where did that star come from? From other substances? Where did those come from? God says I'm the alpha and the omega.

See above for the "star". As for God, where did God come from? If the Big Bang HAS TO come from somewhere, then surely also God HAS TO come from somewhere.

Curious how God speaks Greek to a predominantly Hebrew-speaking people, don't you think?

Finally, the biggest insult to a human is to tell him he came from.. a bacteria? I value myself much more when I think I came from God. (that's off-topic though)

Who cares if it's insulting? Swift in another thread said it was "unacceptable" to think that he "came from monkeys" (which is slightly off the truth as it is). Why does acceptability matter if it's actually true? That's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LALALALALA! I'M NOT LISTENING" when someone tells you something you don't like.

Exactly. How did the Ark survive too? The Ark was 100% wood, and wooden boats with this size would crack up because of their weight. That's what I explained in my previous post. How did Christ heal the blind? The handicaped? How did He resurrect Lazarus? If Christ healed the Blind, I'm pretty sure God can make a Penguin survive. Again, if you ONLY believe what you can SENSE, then you won't believe what I just said.

Yeeees. See "wishful thinking" and "story telling" from earlier.

Someone said the same thing about cats earlier on. But here's the killer. If God can make arginine/taurine-dependant cats survive without it and penguins survive in Mesopotamia and on the Ark, why did he need Noah to take two of every animal when he could have made the animals survive anyway?

What's 78 years compared to Eternity?

Exactly. What's 78 years of tangible existance compared to eternity of non-existance?

Answering a question by a question is saying "I don't want to answer", or "I don't know". No offense though, that's how I see it.

Actually, there was a cunning point hidden in there. I'll put it here again and see if you can figure it out. I'm pretty sure danoff got it, and he only has the five senses to rely on.

Ever wondered where your soul would go?

Have you ever wondered where your fisnazzle would go?

God is perfect, and we will be made perfect when we resurrect, if we have accepted Christ. According to His image does not mean exactly LIKE Him.

Hmm. So God is a somewhat abstract artist then?

You live on earth to prepare your eternal existence. Whatever you do on earth, you will be judged for.

Yep. On Earth.

I do not hope to die, I love my life. Ever wondered why people who suicide are NEVER REAL Christians? (real = somebody who really practices). Ever wondered why God asks us not to kill? We are to enjoy what God gives us, and not destroy it.

Heaven's Gate and the Branch Davidians REALLY practised. They hid away in communes to practise. Still all topped themselves though.

 

[GT4Mania]

Afraid not.

Anything science cannot currently explain is filed under "things science cannot currently explain". It doesn't get tossed into a "can't possibly happen" file.

How can I explain a column of fire or the sea being divided in two? Wishful thinking from storytellers designed to capture the imagination.

If things that cannot currently explain are tossed in this file, then the penguin on the Ark.. science can not explain. This does not mean it did not happen. Good.

How would you explain the horses made of fire that came to pick Elie from earth to heaven, so that he would not have to die to go there? Wishful thinking. Then what about all the traces left from both the horses and the "car" they were pulling (sorry, don't know how it's called). They're in Syria, near or in Damascus.

Nope. Nobody says that. Either you've made it up or you've got that from somewhere else which made it up.

Let's say I'm wrong, as this is not the topic here. Where did the Big Bang come from? Where did all that substance come from?

See above for the "star". As for God, where did God come from? If the Big Bang HAS TO come from somewhere, then surely also God HAS TO come from somewhere.

God was before everything. He does not have a beginning or an end. Since you won't believe what you can not see, it makes no sense to argue with you about this.

Curious how God speaks Greek to a predominantly Hebrew-speaking people, don't you think?

False. Also, God can speak all languages.

Who cares if it's insulting? Swift in another thread said it was "unacceptable" to think that he "came from monkeys" (which is slightly off the truth as it is). Why does acceptability matter if it's actually true? That's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LALALALALA! I'M NOT LISTENING" when someone tells you something you don't like.

If you don't mind insulting yourself, why would you hate if someone insulted you? (Please don't answer "I don't care if someone insults me"). If you don't mind being compared to a bacteria, then there's a problem.

Yeeees. See "wishful thinking" and "story telling" from earlier.

Wishful thinking and story telling since science will never be able to explain it. See, if everything in the Bible was explainable by science, then people would say "If science can explain this, then there was no need for a God for it to happen". Result? People who don't believe and don't want to believe will ALWAYS find a way to argue, this is just how Satan works.

Someone said the same thing about cats earlier on. But here's the killer. If God can make arginine/taurine-dependant cats survive without it and penguins survive in Mesopotamia and on the Ark, why did he need Noah to take two of every animal when he could have made the animals survive anyway? [/color][/b][/QUOTE]

We could question every point of the story. Why did God send water, not fire? I don't know. The Bible does not give useless details. Even in our actual stories, we don't know why things happen. It is also useless to say He didn't kill them because He would not have been able to make them again, since He created them at first.

Exactly. What's 78 years of tangible existance compared to eternity of non-existance?

This is not an argument.

Actually, there was a cunning point hidden in there. I'll put it here again and see if you can figure it out. I'm pretty sure danoff got it, and he only has the five senses to rely on.

Poor.

Hmm. So God is a somewhat abstract artist then?

Poor.

Yep. On Earth.

Nobody on earth will make you pay if you cheat on your wife, think about sleeping with another woman, curse, etc. Why is it bad to do these then? Again, poor.

Heaven's Gate and the Branch Davidians REALLY practised. They hid away in communes to practise. Still all topped themselves though.

If God says not to kill and suicide, and if God says to take care of our life and body, since our body is the temple of God (by the way, this is why Christians don't do drugs), and if they did it, then something is wrong with the way they practice it.
If I claim I'm christian and I commit adultery, does this mean Christians are allowed to do adultery? No, I am the only one doing wrong, and people who haven't read the Bible will get a bad example about Christanism, just as it is written in the Book of John (not the Gospel).

 

[Joey D]

Wow religious people are all the same, they think they can defy the very laws of physics with faith. Faith counts for nothing in this world, this world is based on fact not ficition. For all we know religion could be nothing more then some old ancient stories that people made up because they had no explination.

You ask were did the big bang come from? Well considering it's a theory there isn't a definate answer to this, see us science people just don't call something fact when their is little or no proof. But the big bang was the start of our new universe. See, from what I've learned, is that the universe is a big ass taurus knot that expands to almost infinity and then contracts backs down to almost infinitaly small, explodes and does it again. This has happened more then likely an infinite number of times and will continue.

You talk about Noah's ark, you realize to fit every animal time two on a boat it would have to be the size of like 6 of today's ocean lines, not to mention they had very little acces to tools back then. Noah's ark is just a childs tale that has been blown out of proportion, or maybe tall tale work better. I guess Noah will join my pal Paul Bunyan and Babe.

 

[PS]

Hey, GT4Mania, how about you quit asking Famine how stuff happened and ask yourself if anything really happened at all?

Oh wait, you don't know.

 

[Duke]

I'm pretty sure if you studied something about the human body, you would say it is very complex.

Oh, where's that : popcorn : smilie when you need it?

You live on earth to prepare your eternal existence. Whatever you do on earth, you will be judged for.

No, you live on earth to prepare for eternal existence. I live on earth to live on earth.

I'll let our latest mystic go with the following quote:

I have found it necessary to deny knowledge in order to leave room for faith.

 

[Swift]

Hey, GT4Mania, how about you quit asking Famine how stuff happened and ask yourself if anything really happened at all?

Oh wait, you don't know.

Neither do you. so stop acting like you do. Man, do me a favor and actually contribute with a post.

Danoff: you're also missing me. You can say it's not true all you want. You haven't experienced it. That is where the truth is. But since you have no desire to even try it. You'll simply never know. That's the thing about atheisim. It just says "no thanks" to God. that's fine, but that doesn't discount the fact that God exists.

 

[PS]

Neither do you. so stop acting like you do. Man, do me a favor and actually contribute with a post.

Danoff: you're also missing me. You can say it's not true all you want. You haven't experienced it. That is where the truth is. But since you have no desire to even try it. You'll simply never know. That's the thing about atheisim. It just says "no thanks" to God. that's fine, but that doesn't discount the fact that God exists.

I don't know what happened, I have therefore decided not to embrace it. I never specifically said nothing ever happened, I was simply suggesting that because noone around then is around here now to give an eyewitness account (no matter how bad they are), so he can't surely know. And neither can you. Or me. Or Pako. Or Duke. Or Famine. Or XVII.

So don't get all mad at me when I tell someone not to just accept everything as-is.

 

[Famine]

Anything science cannot currently explain is filed under "things science cannot currently explain". It doesn't get tossed into a "can't possibly happen" file.

How can I explain a column of fire or the sea being divided in two? Wishful thinking from storytellers designed to capture the imagination.

If things that cannot currently explain are tossed in this file, then the penguin on the Ark.. science can not explain. This does not mean it did not happen. Good.

How would you explain the horses made of fire that came to pick Elie from earth to heaven, so that he would not have to die to go there? Wishful thinking. Then what about all the traces left from both the horses and the "car" they were pulling (sorry, don't know how it's called). They're in Syria, near or in Damascus.

Please provide me with documented evidence of this. Then I can begin to answer the question "how would you explain?". Just randomly picking something out of the air and asking someone to explain it - and seeing their lack of `immediate response as evidence of God is just as circular as everything else you've said thus far.

Nope. Nobody says that. Either you've made it up or you've got that from somewhere else which made it up.

Let's say I'm wrong, as this is not the topic here. Where did the Big Bang come from? Where did all that substance come from?

Let me refer you on to the next point.

See above for the "star". As for God, where did God come from? If the Big Bang HAS TO come from somewhere, then surely also God HAS TO come from somewhere.

God was before everything. He does not have a beginning or an end. Since you won't believe what you can not see, it makes no sense to argue with you about this.

Now, you see how circular that is?

God made everything. God is eternal. Yet if one says the same thing about the universe, you all crack on with "Where did the Universe come from?"

If you can accept that a being has existed for all eternity, why do you find it difficult to accept that "stuff" has existed for all eternity? Isn't a being a collection of stuff?

Curious how God speaks Greek to a predominantly Hebrew-speaking people, don't you think?

False. Also, God can speak all languages.

YOU said that God says "I am the Alpha and the Omega". Alpha and Omega are GREEK characters. How do you explain these words you have attributed to God being in Greek being understood by the authors of the Bible - your only source of "God's word" - who spoke Hebrew?

Also, Alpha being the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega being the last implies that God knows He has both a beginning and an end. "Poor" your way out of that one.

Who cares if it's insulting? Swift in another thread said it was "unacceptable" to think that he "came from monkeys" (which is slightly off the truth as it is). Why does acceptability matter
if it's actually true? That's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LALALALALA! I'M NOT LISTENING" when someone tells you something you don't like.

If you don't mind insulting yourself, why would you hate if someone insulted you? (Please don't answer "I don't care if someone insults me"). If you don't mind being compared to a bacteria, then there's a problem.

If you won't accept truth based on your dislike of it, then there's an even bigger problem.

Yeeees. See "wishful thinking" and "story telling" from earlier.

Wishful thinking and story telling since science will never be able to explain it. See, if everything in the Bible was explainable by science, then people would say "If science can explain this, then there was no need for a God for it to`happen". Result? People who don't believe and don't want to believe will ALWAYS find a way to argue, this is just how Satan works.

Well, at least you're beginning to catch on there.

Someone said the same thing about cats earlier on. But here's the killer. If God can make arginine/taurine-dependant cats survive without it and penguins survive in Mesopotamia and on the Ark, why did he need Noah to take two of every animal when he could have made the animals survive anyway?

We could question every point of the story. Why did God send water, not fire? I don't know. The Bible does not give useless details. Even in our actual stories, we don't know why things happen. It is also useless to say He didn't kill them because He would not have been able to make them again, since He created them at first.

See the title of the thread? "Religion is Convoluted"?

God floods the world, except he allows eight people to survive on a boat he told one of them to build a few decades earlier. Then he makes it so that two of every animal turns up and gets on - despite the fact that this would cause a huge bottleneck, would take hundreds of years to make the journeys from their native habitats and the boat isn't big enough. These two of every animal are magically made to survive, by God, in this environment for 40 days, which would normally kill quite a few of them (all of the cats, the penguins and the polar bears, amongst others) and then the water, which covers EVERYTHING, goes away somewhere.

All of this magic occurs, rather than God doing one single piece of magic by allowing some animals and people to live. Or, as you say, wipe everyone out and start again (forgetting the Unicorns and Basilisks this time). Does that not sound even slightly convoluted to you? Remember Occam's Razor...

The Bible doesn't give "useless" details - or any details at all - because it's full of stories which would not hold water (excuse the pun) when examined in any reasonable detail.

Exactly. What's 78 years of tangible existance compared to eternity of non-existance?

This is not an argument.

No. It's a response.

Actually, there was a cunning point hidden in there. I'll put it here again and see if you can figure it out. I'm pretty sure danoff got it, and he only has the five senses to rely on.

Poor.

Not going to answer it then? Go on - it'll make you feel fulfilled, I promise you. I'll post it again, just for you.

Ever wondered where your soul would go?

Have you ever wondered where your fisnazzle would go?

Hmm. So God is a somewhat abstract artist then?

Poor.

How so?

If we were made in God's image, yet you claim we look nothing like him, he's either an abstract artist or really, really crap at sculpture.

Yep. On Earth.

Nobody on earth will make you pay if you cheat on your wife, think about sleeping with another woman, curse, etc. Why is it bad to do these then? Again, poor.

Why IS it bad to do these things? If it's bad to curse, why am I not banged up in ******* prison for it? Oh wait - if I do it in front of a class of schoolkids, I WILL get arrested for Disorderly Conduct. If I cheat on my wife (not that I have one) and she finds out, a judge will give her half of everything I own. At least.

Heaven's Gate and the Branch Davidians REALLY practised. They hid away in communes to practise. Still all topped themselves though.

If God says not to kill and suicide, and if God says to take care of our life and body, since our body is the temple of God (by the way, this is why Christians don't do drugs), and if they did it, then something is wrong with the way they practice
it.

Where is the specific part of the Bible saying that you will not go to Heaven if you kill yourself? For that matter, were the Crusaders not Christians?

If someone chooses to take a bullet for someone else and dies, or chooses to push a child out of the way of a speeding car and take the impact themselves, then they have voluntarily relinquished their life. Are they going to Hell? And, lest we forget, Jesus ALLOWED himself to be taken to be crucified and God ALLOWED him to die.

Christians DO take drugs. Roman Catholics drink Communion wine. Alcohol is a drug.

No wait, don't tell me... They aren't Christian enough for you? Or how about just "Poor"..?

Beats a reasoned response any day. Come back SuperCobraJet, all is forgiven!

 

[DQuaN]

If you don't mind insulting yourself, why would you hate if someone insulted you? (Please don't answer "I don't care if someone insults me"). If you don't mind being compared to a bacteria, then there's a problem.

Oh geez

He is not comparing himself to bacteria, he is saying that, over millions of years, our species evloved from bacteria. Which I think is a great achievement.

Would you be offended if I said you came from a load of sperm, shot out of some blokes testes? It doesn't sound pretty but it's the truth.

 

[JacktheHat]

GT4Mania, just out of interest, have you seen "Monty Python's The Life Of Brian"?

 

[Danoff]

Danoff: you're also missing me. You can say it's not true all you want. You haven't experienced it. That is where the truth is. But since you have no desire to even try it. You'll simply never know. That's the thing about atheisim. It just says "no thanks" to God. that's fine, but that doesn't discount the fact that God exists.

No no. I get you loud and clear. I wasn't proving or disproving anything. I was saying that Pako's argument that his life was better since he had God didn't prove anything. And it doesn't.

 

[Pako]

No no. I get you loud and clear. I wasn't proving or disproving anything. I was saying that Pako's argument that his life was better since he had God didn't prove anything. And it doesn't.

It doesn't prove anything, OTHER THAN my life is better because of Christ in my life. That also, by the way, seems to be the majority result for everyone that excepts Christ into their life. There's always the resentful believer that has something tragic happen in their life and they blame God for it, or someone in the church says something not biblical and they take it to heart and blame God for it, but....something that they don't understand is as long as humans are involved, your going to have human situation.

 

[sicbeing]

It doesn't prove anything, OTHER THAN my life is better because of Christ in my life. That also, by the way, seems to be the majority result for everyone that excepts Christ into their life. There's always the resentful believer that has something tragic happen in their life and they blame God for it, or someone in the church says something not biblical and they take it to heart and blame God for it, but....something that they don't understand is as long as humans are involved, your going to have human situation.

u always hear people / celebreties / sports players on tv thanking god for the good game or the win or the whatever. But what u dont hear it "yea i was doing good, until jesus made me miss the basket!"

What im saying here is its either god makes u win AND lose, or god has no say in it whatsoever, and most of the christians i know would prolly get offended for me saying that if god does the good parts, he also does the bad. Since not everyone gets the same deal from god, that makes most ppl, like me, believe god has no doing in our lives that obtains to what happens to you and what doesnt happen to you.

 

[DemonSeed]

someone said that christians dont do drugs, well...

Nicholas Saunders, author of the book E for Ecstasy (1993), cites a Benedictine monk who finds MDMA "opens up a direct channel to God". MDMA may not be "Christ in (al)chemical form", but if it had been present in the Eucharist, then we would all still be devout Christians, possibly for ever.

maybe they should then, hmm.

 

[Famine]

u always hear people / celebreties / sports players on tv thanking god for the good game or the win or the whatever. But what u dont hear it "yea i was doing good, until jesus made me miss the basket!"

What im saying here is its either god makes u win AND lose, or god has no say in it whatsoever, and most of the christians i know would prolly get offended for me saying that if god does the good parts, he also does the bad. Since not everyone gets the same deal from god, that makes most ppl, like me, believe god has no doing in our lives that obtains to what happens to you and what doesnt happen to you.

No, Satan does the bad things. God just... lets him. Or something.

 

[sicbeing]

i dont think satan does the bad things, u know why? god is everywhere, and satan can only be in one place at a time.

now if u wanna say its charma , or odds, or badluck, id agree

 

[Famine]

Satan makes me say that the Bible is full of pleasant little stories with no basis in reality. Apparently.

 

[sicbeing]

Satan makes me say that the Bible is full of pleasant little stories with no basis in reality. Apparently.

Are you questioning satan? if bad luck can make u drop a football while running, imagine what satan could do

 

[ledhed]

He makes me fart.

 

[PS]

Are you questioning satan? if bad luck can make u drop a football while running, imagine what satan could do

According to you if god is everywhere than satan can do nothing. See, you're already proving you can't uphold a coherent argument. And, out of curiosity, what do you think about Satanism? Obviously Satanism is contrived, but it doesn't make stuff up and it serves a slightly more cynical purpose.

Also, Alpha being the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega being the last implies that God knows He has both a beginning and an end. "Poor" your way out of that one.

You know Famine, that is a very good point— but something just dawned on me. Maybe he's not insinuating that god doesn't have a begining and end, but instead that he is the beginning and end? What if god is the one that destroys us all? That wouldn't be very nice, now would it?

And technically, Satan isn't evil. Satan said he would rather reign in hell than serve God, and so he did. All that means is that he guards the evil souls, which I suppose would be more valuable than letting someone keep the good souls, would it not?

I know I'd rather have a bunch of good souls running around than evil ones. Go satan! Keep us safe!