Religion is contrived

[Dave A]

thanks to bones mankind has found and examined we know how humans, monkeys and other animals looked like in the past. so we can recreate the process of evolution.
furthermore the DNA shows that we are almost identical to many other species.

1. the universe is perfect? sorry, but there are so many planets and nobody could on most of them. and we all know that our solar system is not eternal. one day the sun will go out, or we might be hit by a huge asteroid. i would not call this exactly perfect, it just shows how unimportant we are. we could easily be extinguished and it would not matter at all to the universe. the earth is one unimportant small planet somewhere in that huge universe. thats science again...

2. thats exactly the point. you create your god, mankind created god, out of fear. most people can't stand the truth, they need a god to feel save and find hope.

of course the evolution theory does not give anybody hope, because its not supposed to give us hope, its supposed to explain reality. if you need a lie to stay alive, thats your problem.

1: Our DNA is not almost identical to anything else other than other humans, there are similarities, but humans are rather different to Apes. There is also no link between the two ever to be found, so even where the similarities are, they are still only similarities and are not the same and keep the threory a theory.

2: The universe is perfect fo r the task that it was created, to sustain life on our planet, we have protection from other planets and if you've noticed, all the planets and galaxes don't seem to hit eachother.

3: Prove the evolution theory is the truth, then you can call it the truth.

 

[Famine]

Maybe, just maybe that balance of arganine and taurine was altered by God, their creator after the Flood in Noah's day. Thats when animals started eating meat, so in terms of beliefe in God, it's logical to think that God changed the balances needed to sustain the animals after that point in time.

It's as logical as thinking everything was created by chance and that a fish grew legs and decided it liked dry land more than the water.

Indeed. Since that thought is totally illogical and nothing to do with anything,

So, God created all life on Earth in the first six days (never mind creating the Sun after creating "the Light" and the Earth), yet tinkered with it 6,000 years later?

If cats didn't need to eat meat before, why did they need to eat meat afterwards? No other species suddenly became obligate carnivores after the Flood. Seems a bit cruel.


Incidentally, I just won £5 from my girlfriend. She didn't believe someone would actually say something along the lines of "God can do what he likes". So thanks!

1: Our DNA is not almost identical to anything else other than other humans, there are similarities, but humans are rather different to Apes. There is also no link between the two ever to be found, so even where the similarities are, they are still only similarities and are not the same and keep the threory a theory.

Strike one!

2: The universe is perfect fo r the task that it was created, to sustain life on our planet, we have protection from other planets and if you've noticed, all the planets and galaxes don't seem to hit eachother.

Strike two!

3: Prove the evolution theory is the truth, then you can call it the truth.

Prove God is the truth, then you can call it the Truth.

You see, you lot ALWAYS miss the crux.

Science is subject to change as new data becomes available. Religion is not and often ignores new data - and puts out its own counter-information - if it is contrary to its teachings. Why else would there be the wonderful circulating myth that Darwin renounced his theories on his deathbed, when nothing of the sort ever occurred?

 

[smellysocks12]

one day the sun will go out, or we might be hit by a huge asteroid. i would not call this exactly perfect, it just shows how unimportant we are. we could easily be extinguished and it would not matter at all to the universe. the earth is one unimportant small planet somewhere in that huge universe. thats science again...

Exactly, christianity is based around mankind so much it's sickening. You have God, and right below God you have people. Yeah right. Such incredible self-centered nonsense.

 

[vladimir]

Since your so determind to push your idea's onto everyone else that doesn't agree with you, I'm going to ask you now, PROVE ME WRONG. Beliefe that life came from a life is far more believable than the idea the universe happened by chance.

then tell me one thing: who created god!?

 

[Dave A]

Clever question, but it's one that I'm not qulified to answer because we don't know since we only know what Jesus taught and whats written in the bible.

 

[vladimir]

1: Our DNA is not almost identical to anything else other than other humans, there are similarities, but humans are rather different to Apes. There is also no link between the two ever to be found, so even where the similarities are, they are still only similarities and are not the same and keep the threory a theory.

2: The universe is perfect fo r the task that it was created, to sustain life on our planet, we have protection from other planets and if you've noticed, all the planets and galaxes don't seem to hit eachother.

3: Prove the evolution theory is the truth, then you can call it the truth.

the DNA in man and apes is 95% the same.

and there is a link. i thought everybody knew that nowadays...


2. are those billions of planets lightyears away really needed to sustain life on earth?

3. the evolution theory works, unlike the god theory.

 

[smellysocks12]

1: Our DNA is not almost identical to anything else other than other humans, there are similarities, but humans are rather different to Apes. There is also no link between the two ever to be found, so even where the similarities are, they are still only similarities and are not the same and keep the threory a theory.

If you believe in DNA, then you believe in DNA mutations. DNA mutations --> Evolution theory.


Besides that your DNA isn't identical to your mother's DNA, does that make you not a human since it isn't the same?

2: The universe is perfect fo r the task that it was created, to sustain life on our planet, we have protection from other planets and if you've noticed, all the planets and galaxes don't seem to hit eachother.

Yeah, the Ice Age is just a Pixar movie and never happened. I guess the planets protecting us missed that one asteroid.

3: Prove the evolution theory is the truth, then you can call it the truth.

You just proved that you believe in it at point 1.

 

[Dave A]

Indeed. Since that thought is totally illogical and nothing to do with anything,

So, God created all life on Earth in the first six days (never mind creating the Sun after creating "the Light" and the Earth), yet tinkered with it 6,000 years later?

If cats didn't need to eat meat before, why did they need to eat meat afterwards? No other species suddenly became obligate carnivores after the Flood. Seems a bit cruel.


Incidentally, I just won £5 from my girlfriend. She didn't believe someone would actually say something along the lines of "God can do what he likes". So thanks!



[Prove God is the truth, then you can call it the Truth.

You see, you lot ALWAYS miss the crux.

Science is subject to change as new data becomes available. Religion is not and often ignores new data - and puts out its own counter-information - if it is contrary to its teachings. Why else would there be the wonderful circulating myth that Darwin renounced his theories on his deathbed, when nothing of the sort ever occurred?

No I didn't miss the crux, because my very first post I stated this is a pointless argument because neither can be definitvley proven.

Religion in general may not always change, however the information in the bible is not out of date, the science in it is still accurate what can be proven one way or another, the history is spot on, the prophesy's all came true, I know you'll just say it wasa written after the events even though your scientific dating puts many accounts before the events.

Also the bible doesn't say god created light before the sun, I don't see ghow you came to that conclusion.

and congrats on the fiver.

 

[Dave A]

If you believe in DNA, then you believe in DNA mutations. DNA mutations --> Evolution theory.

No because the evolution theory is that all life evolved from a single celled organism. That I don't believe.

 

[vladimir]

Clever question, but it's one that I'm not qulified to answer because we don't know since we only know what Jesus taught and whats written in the bible.

you just criticized the scientific theory for not explaining how something like the earth and man and animals could develop by accident, and insisted on god who was responsible for it. but apparently god does not explain it either, because god just raises another question.
of course you could always say "god is something greater and so special that we cannot and must not explain!" this however just shows that both theorys have the same problem, they can never fully explain life, earth and everything. though the difference is that the scientific approach admits what we don't know, whereas the religious approach avoids the question or insists on a theory that can never be proven.

 

[smellysocks12]

Religion in general may not always change, however the information in the bible is not out of date, the science in it is still accurate what can be proven one way or another, the history is spot on, the prophesy's all came true, I know you'll just say it wasa written after the events even though your scientific dating puts many accounts before the events.

^ I've seen less bull**** come out of a bull's ass in an entire lifetime.


As a matter of fact the church has motivated science for years. Teaching in schools and such, organized education exists thanks to the christian church. They became educated and investigated things like DNA mutation and the Evolution theory. Unfortunately the church lacked behind and is full with stubborn old men who won't acknowledge that what they have been teaching for centuries appears to be wrong.

 

[Dave A]

Show me part of the bible that contradicts proven science, PROVEN science not a theory.

And Vladamir, the churches may not admit what they don't know, but that doesn't mead the idea of a God is any less right weather you believe it or not. Neither of the theories can't be proven, yet smellysocks insisits he's right.

 

[smellysocks12]

No because the evolution theory is that all life evolved from a single celled organism. That I don't believe.

That one cell multiplied and more cells were created that were slightly different, then those multiplied and created more mutated cells. This process went on and on and that's how we have so many different species on this planet now. The weaker ones couldn't survive, so that's how only the stronger features in cells remained. That's why apes have stronger arms than we do, they didn't have our brain capacity but genetically they have stronger arms, which made them able to reproduce. The sapiens without high intelligence and weak arms died and couldn't reproduce and no weak mutations were passed on to the next generation. This is how it worked for all creatures.


The story of God pulling every damn species out of his hat is completely illogic. Crocodiles already existed long before people had the chance to evolve. The bible starts from the moment that people started to exist. That is narrowminded, since it hs been proved that millions of years ago dinosaurs walked around this soil.

 

[Famine]

Also the bible doesn't say god created light before the sun, I don't see ghow you came to that conclusion.

.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

 

[smellysocks12]

Show me part of the bible that contradicts proven science, PROVEN science not a theory.

I'd post the entire first testament, but it won't fit in this forum space. Besides that I think you probably have it in your collection already.

 

[smellysocks12]

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

Thanks for letting me borrow this one. This is so funny, how it clearly displays that the bible displays that the sun revolves around earth, while science has proved long ago that the world revolves around the sun. Not the other way around. Besides that another false point in this line is that the lesser light, the moon, isn't even a light. You're looking at the same damn light source, the sun, reflecting from the surface of the moon.

 

[Dave A]

Theres nothing in there that contradicts proven science. Sorry.

Famine, I missed that at first, but that doesn't mean that he didn't create other stars before our solar system, they give off light, then our solar system then the sun and the moon.

 

[smellysocks12]

One thing you are right about:

"Favorite Quote:
Don't argue with a stupid person, you'll never win."

So that means goodbye for now!

 

[Famine]

Show me part of the bible that contradicts proven science, PROVEN science not a theory.

Umm... All of it?

Including the dying cats, we've got resurrection, walking on water, creation of everything in less time than we have documented human history, a flood covering the entire Earth (global warming - very bad) - need I go on?

And Vladamir, the churches may not admit what they don't know, but that doesn't mead the idea of a God is any less right weather you believe it or not. Neither of the theories can't be proven, yet smellysocks insisits he's right.

You're still not getting it. Creationism IS NOT a theory. It is taught as fact, based on 2,000 year old understanding of biological processes. Theories are modified as data is collected.

Churches not only don't admit what they don't know, they claim to know everything, ignore anything contradictory (as the work of Satan), feed misinformation to counter anything contradictory and, in the past, have actively punished those who say anything contrary to Doctrine.


Let me ask you - if you accept the scientific principle which has given rise to televisions, the internet, the PC you're using, the clothes you're wearing and the technology to build the house you're in, why does it suddenly become irrelevant, or worse just wrong, when it comes to something an old book says?

that doesn't mean that he didn't create other stars before our solar system, they give off light

You mean those stars added as an afterthought in Gen 1.16? After the "Light", the Earth, the oceans, the animals and the people, but at the same time as the Sun?

 

[Dave A]

First of all, the universe wasn't created in 6 literal days, if you know the bible you'll know that thats symbolic.

The idea that the cats genetic makeup changed cannot be proven wrong can it.

Walking on water, I'll give you that it was supernatural.

You can't prove the flood never happened.

A dead person can come back to life, doctors still do it from time to time. Ressurection of Lazarus though is supernatural.

Science isn't irrelevant, I just don't believe in the evolution theory which you cannot prove.

 

[vladimir]

And Vladamir, the churches may not admit what they don't know, but that doesn't mead the idea of a God is any less right weather you believe it or not. Neither of the theories can't be proven, yet smellysocks insisits he's right.

two theorys, neither gives us the ultimate explanation. one of them was created over time, through lots of research, experiments, investigation and use of the "god given" reason, the other was created thousands of years ago at the same time when people thought the earth was flat, the sun was going round the earth, brain was there to cool the blood and lots of other strange theorys. one of them is rational and one is irrational.

so who has more right to say he was right?!

 

[smellysocks12]

First of all, the universe wasn't created in 6 literal days, if you know the bible you'll know that thats symbolic.

The idea that the cats genetic makeup changed cannot be proven wrong can it.

Walking on water, I'll give you that it was supernatural.

You can't prove the flood never happened.

A dead person can come back to life, doctors still do it from time to time. Ressurection of Lazarus though is supernatural.

Science isn't irrelevant, I just don't believe in the evolution theory which you cannot prove.

You're starting to make more sense here. Too many people take things literally, including some religious fanatics here, but they shouldn't. A lot of miracles in the bible are symbolic because at the time the bible was written they couldn't be explained. As a matter of fact that I'm here alive typing this is a miracle, but to say that the world was actually created in 6 days is bullcrap. There might be a God, but even if there is one he didn't just create the world like it is explained in the first testament. If there's anything that is created by God it's the system of evolution, I don't have an explanation for how that got started.

 

[Swift]

BTW everyone. If you haven't figured it out yet. Life defies science. And since we can't wait .7 billion years to see if it's true or not. That is kind of outmoted.

You're starting to make more sense here. Too many people take things literally, including some religious fanatics here, but they shouldn't. A lot of miracles in the bible are symbolic because at the time the bible was written they couldn't be explained. As a matter of fact that I'm here alive typing this is a miracle, but to say that the world was actually created in 6 days is bullcrap. There might be a God, but even if there is one he didn't just create the world like it is explained in the first testament. If there's anything that is created by God it's the system of evolution, I don't have an explanation for how that got started.

Wow, now I know how Famine felt when I was so off on the evolutionary theory. Man, this is laughable. If you're God can't create the earth in 6 literal days, what kind of God is that? Sounds like a very small god to me. My God can do all things. Including raise the dead, walk on water, split the sea, rain down fire from heaven and keep lions mouths closed among other things.

The god that you have(notice the small g) obviously needs help from someone else.

 

[Dave A]

Lets just say, both theories are based on a level of faith to make the work. My faith is in a God, yours is in evolution theories, I respect your opinions, I really do, mine just differ... A lot . See you guys tomorrow.

 

[vladimir]

like voltaire said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"


good night.

 

[smellysocks12]

At least we all agree about one thing, whether GT4 is manmade or a gift from god, it's one hell of a cool game.

 

[PS]

Nope sorry, and since you CAN'T prove that to me anymore then I can prove to you that God created me in his image then you will stop telling me what I am.

What an obnoxious thing to say. Are you aware of how similar our genetics are to a monkey? REALLY close. And do you know what our genetics are like to an ape? Nearly identical. So how can you say we didn't evolve from apes, hmm? When hundreds of thousand of years ago, our species were exactly the same which then split into chimps/monkeys, apes, and homosapien.

 

[Swift]

What an obnoxious thing to say. Are you aware of how similar our genetics are to a monkey? REALLY close. And do you know what our genetics are like to an ape? Nearly identical. So how can you say we didn't evolve from apes, hmm? When hundreds of thousand of years ago, our species were exactly the same which then split into chimps/monkeys, apes, and homosapien.

Like I said before, you can't prove that I have ancestory in a monkey. I will not be told what I am from someone that won't even entertain the notion of devine existence and creation.

BTW, I used to be an evolutionist, then I was saved. So don't think I don't understand the point of view.

Do you know why calculus exists? I'll tell you. Because Sir Isaac Newton wanted a way to track the planets. he wasn't bored and wanted a higher form of mathmatics. It had a purpose. As Famine has explained, 5+5=10 is math but not part of trigonometry and not part of calculus. Just because humans are similar to apes doesn't mean that's where we came from. We are the higher life form on this planet and I'm not an advanced animal. Also APe DNA and human DNA is rather different.

 

[Famine]

Like I said before, you can't prove that I have ancestory in a monkey.

That's because you don't.

You and monkeys have a common ancestor, rather than monkeys being our ancestors. If we did come from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

 

[Danoff]

Do you know why calculus exists? I'll tell you. Because Sir Isaac Newton wanted a way to track the planets. he wasn't bored and wanted a higher form of mathmatics. It had a purpose. As Famine has explained, 5+5=10 is math but not part of trigonometry and not part of calculus. Just because humans are similar to apes doesn't mean that's where we came from. We are the higher life form on this planet and I'm not an advanced animal. Also APe DNA and human DNA is rather different.

But Monkey and human DNA is as different as the DNA from male and female humans.

That's pretty similar. Coincidence? Perhaps we had a common ancestor?

Let's compare the options here.

You can believe that evolution occured on this planet. Evolution of species is readily testable and has lots of fossil evidnce. It is the solution that the best thinkers among our species have come up with.

Or you can believe that humans sprang forth from nothing because a supreme being wanted us to be here and is waiting for us when we die so that we can live forever in perfect bliss.

Which one of those sounds like it's made up?