Religion is contrived

[Swift]

But Monkey and human DNA is as different as the DNA from male and female humans.

That's pretty similar. Coincidence? Perhaps we had a common ancestor?

Let's compare the options here.

You can believe that evolution occured on this planet. Evolution of species is readily testable and has lots of fossil evidnce. It is the solution that the best thinkers among our species have come up with.

Or you can believe that humans sprang forth from nothing because a supreme being wanted us to be here and is waiting for us when we die so that we can live forever in perfect bliss.

Which one of those sounds like it's made up?

First, we didn't come from nothing. We came from the dust of the ground.

Second, just because the best minds come up with something doesn't make it true. Sir Isaac Newton himself believed in God and Devine Creation.

 

[Danoff]

Second, just because the best minds come up with something doesn't make it true. Sir Isaac Newton himself believed in God and Devine Creation.

But he didn't come up with it. Some other people came up with it.

First, we didn't come from nothing. We came from the dust of the ground.

That makes it much more believable, thanks.

 

[Swift]

But he didn't come up with it. Some other people came up with it.



That makes it much more believable, thanks.

Nobody came up with it. It is of God. See, that's what I think that most of you aren't grasping. Man created religion for some stupid reason. But God created spirituality and the ability to have a relationship with him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't believe in God it's because you want to believe that you do everything for you and to have no responsibilities outside of what you can see.

BTW, don't you believe we came from the dust of the ground? I mean a whole bunch of stuff floating in a pool that just happened to come together to do "something" that sounds just as believable to me.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

First, we didn't come from nothing. We came from the dust of the ground.

Second, just because the best minds come up with something doesn't make it true. Sir Isaac Newton himself believed in God and Devine Creation.

If we were indeed created by "God" from sand, than can you prove to us scientifically that there are similarities between Human Cells and sand, or that if the two bonded can create life?
I highly doubt it.

 

[Danoff]

BTW, don't you believe we came from the dust of the ground? I mean a whole bunch of stuff floating in a pool that just happened to come together to do "something" that sounds just as believable to me.

Not directly no. I don't believe a single human being was formed directly from dust (or goo).

But God created spirituality and the ability to have a relationship with him.

How do you know? All you have to go on is what man made up (wrote down in a book). You don't know what parts are real and what parts are not (and some of it is obviously not). So when you think you're having a spiritual moment, how do you know it's not just gas, or that you're imagining it, or that you're actually having a spiritual moment with the devil.

 

[Swift]

Not directly no. I don't believe a single human being was formed directly from dust (or goo).



How do you know? All you have to go on is what man made up (wrote down in a book). You don't know what parts are real and what parts are not (and some of it is obviously not). So when you think you're having a spiritual moment, how do you know it's not just gas, or that you're imagining it, or that you're actually having a spiritual moment with the devil.

Uh, it's all real. I have a personal relationship with God. How about this, instead of asserting things about the word of God, why don't you try to site some examples of something? I could do the same thing about evolution because I doubt either you or I have the needed equipment and time to reproduce those experiements that are said to be so conclusive.

And yes, you do believe people were formed from goo if you believe in the ooze and evolution.

 

[Danoff]

And yes, you do believe people were formed from goo if you believe in the ooze and evolution.

Not directly. Over millions of years life evovled into us. I don't believe a single human being sprang directly from goo. You on the otherhand do believe that a single human being sprang from dirt... directly.

Uh, it's all real. I have a personal relationship with God.

You didn't answer my question. How do you know?

 

[Mark T]

Nobody came up with it. It is of God. See, that's what I think that most of you aren't grasping. Man created religion for some stupid reason. But God created spirituality and the ability to have a relationship with him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't believe in God it's because you want to believe that you do everything for you and to have no responsibilities outside of what you can see.
BTW, don't you believe we came from the dust of the ground? I mean a whole bunch of stuff floating in a pool that just happened to come together to do "something" that sounds just as believable to me.

I don't believe in God and I realise my responsibilities to look after those around me. I don't do everything for myself, I give money to charity and help family and friends. I refuse to believe in something which claims to be "almighty" yet never shows himself to the world, or helps me or my family. Another thing, if God is real, why did he make things so complicated. I mean, why make DNA, atoms and even things like Nucleosynthesis and not explain them to us. There had to be a much easier way. After all, he wrote an entire Bible, he could have left us an instruction manual to go with it.

 

[Swift]

Not directly. Over millions of years life evovled into us. I don't believe a single human being sprang directly from goo. You on the otherhand do believe that a single human being sprang from dirt... directly.

See, now that's junk. We did spring up from goo. It just took umpteen billion years according to evolution. You can't deny that. You can say that a species changed, but it was originally a vat of goo. Am I wrong?

You didn't answer my question. How do you know?

Yes, I did. You simply didn't hear it. I have a personal relationship with Jesus. It's not just through a book. It's through my life. If you understood the gifts of the spirit, like tongues and interpration you would've understood my answer.

You can also look at all the prophecies of Jesus Christ that show the validity between old and new testament. But you'll probably say it was all made up by a few guys in a room.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Hey everyone, check these two web-sites out:

This one that explains what sand is made of;
http://create.ucsd.edu/terraclima/arena/kit_contents/ARENAhandoutweb.pdf

This one explains why the big bang thoery might contradict the creation theory;
http://www.interactives.co.uk/creation.htm
I think this web site gives a good argument in this Evolution vs. Creation theory.
What do you think?

 

[Danoff]

See, now that's junk. We did spring up from goo. It just took umpteen billion years according to evolution. You can't deny that. You can say that a species changed, but it was originally a vat of goo. Am I wrong?

Basic microscopic life coming from goo and over millions of years evolving into us is not so much of a jump as "adam was formed from dirt in like 3 seconds by the hand of god." Those are quite different in terms of believability - and I think the former is much more likely to be true than the latter (which sounds like it was made up).

Yes, I did. You simply didn't hear it. I have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Look. Answer the question. How do you know it's Jesus you have a personal relatioship with? Perhaps you have a personal relationship with something. Maybe it's your imagination or maybe it's a supernatural poweful force (doesn't sound made up at all) but if it is the latter, then how do you know that the supernatural powerful force you have a personal relatioship with is in fact Jesus Christ (btw. isn't he dead? shouldn't it be God you have a relationship with?)?

So tell me, how do you know you're not being tricked into having a personal relationship with the devil? Or someone else's god?

 

[Mark T]

I think religion was made to help people deal with death. I can handle the fact that when I pass away that's it for me, I will no longer exist, I will never have any afterlife. An endless sleep if you will.

Maybe out of chance the atoms that leave my body will go on to become another organism (I think atoms are indestructible). Maybe I will have another existence, but I'm not counting on it.

I believe you have one chance. It's hard to accept and depressing, but I'm just facing reality.

 

[Danoff]

I think religion was made to help people deal with death. I can handle the fact that when I pass away that's it for me, I will no longer exist, I will never have any afterlife. An endless sleep if you will.

I think what makes the most sense is that when you die life is like it was before you were born (ie: you just don't exist).

 

[Mark T]

I think what makes the most sense is that when you die life is like it was before you were born (ie: you just don't exist).

Absolutely. I came from nothing, and will end in nothing.

I take it if there is a heaven, I won't be going there as I do not believe in God. Well, good luck to those "believers".

 

[Danoff]

Absolutely. I came from nothing, and will end in nothing.

It's amazing how simple it is when you think about it - and how complicated people try to make it. Just think about what life was like before you were born and that's what it'll be when you're dead.

But the urge to not have to cope with death (your own or others) is so strong, because our bonds with ourselves and others are so strong, that we'll believe even the most fantastic stories in order to not have to confront the issue... that we simply cease to exist.

It's bleak. It's harsh. It offers no comfort to anyone who has lost a loved one. I envy religious people who don't have to deal with the issue of death because they can believe that they'll live forever. But that just sounds like a fairytale to me. It sounds like something people desparately want to believe.

How convenient that the one comfort we all really really want, is there in the mystical land of religion.

 

[Mark T]

It's amazing how simple it is when you think about it - and how complicated people try to make it. Just think about what life was like before you were born and that's what it'll be when you're dead.

But the urge to not have to cope with death (your own or others) is so strong, because our bonds with ourselves and others are so strong, that we'll believe even the most fantastic stories in order to not have to confront the issue... that we simply cease to exist.

It's bleak. It's harsh. It offers no comfort to anyone who has lost a loved one. I envy religious people who don't have to deal with the issue of death because they can believe that they'll live forever. But that just sounds like a fairytale to me. It sounds like something people desparately want to believe.

How convenient that the one comfort we all really really want, is there in the mystical land of religion.

That's my exact thoughts.

 

[PS]

Nobody came up with it. It is of God. See, that's what I think that most of you aren't grasping. Man created religion for some stupid reason. But God created spirituality and the ability to have a relationship with him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't believe in God it's because you want to believe that you do everything for you and to have no responsibilities outside of what you can see.

BTW, don't you believe we came from the dust of the ground? I mean a whole bunch of stuff floating in a pool that just happened to come together to do "something" that sounds just as believable to me.

And who came up with god? People can't just be born with knowing who or what god is, they either had to make it up or have first hand experience, and noone can attest to first hand experience.

Without backing up your claims, theres no way for creation to be a credible "theory". As Famine noted, it's not even a theory. It's what someone has preached about for the past 2000 years, then they get blinded by religion, stop questioning existence, and take the easy way out thinking that it was just created by some guy in the sky because they don't like the notion that we may have evolved for no reason. Not everything has a reason, and that's something you have to accept.

The fact that you think god has created us is fine, but don't try to prove it, because you have no proof and there's no credibility in your statement by saying that (a) god created you. Oh, and since you like answers and purposes so much, who created god? Obviously we were created by him (according to the religious ones here), so who created god? Either god evolved from proteins and created us, or we evolved from proteins and there is no god.

 

[Danoff]

I'm still looking for an answer to my question

How do you know it's Jesus you have a personal relatioship with? Perhaps you have a personal relationship with something. Maybe it's your imagination or maybe it's a supernatural poweful force (doesn't sound made up at all) but if it is the latter, then how do you know that the supernatural powerful force you have a personal relatioship with is in fact Jesus Christ (btw. isn't he dead? shouldn't it be God you have a relationship with?)?

So tell me, how do you know you're not being tricked into having a personal relationship with the devil? Or someone else's god?

 

[smellysocks12]

They know it's jesus because they need some name to praise / complain to. They like the idea of praising jesus because he is dead, they have never known him and nobody every will get to know him anymore.


If someone would step up today and claim to be the son of God they wouldn't believe it, yet they do believe that the jesus who lived 2 millennia ago was.


Bah.



But whatever, if it gives you hope keep it up, but to me it's bogus.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

They know it's jesus because they need some name to praise / complain to. They like the idea of praising jesus because he is dead, they have never known him and nobody every will get to know him anymore.


If someone would step up today and claim to be the son of God they wouldn't believe it, yet they do believe that the jesus who lived 2 millennia ago was.


Bah.



But whatever, if it gives you hope keep it up, but to me it's bogus.

And the funny thing is that Jesus gave these so called
"Signs of his return", and in Matthew 24 Chapter Verses 4-5 he says
"(4) Don't let anyone fool you. (5) For many will come claiming to be the Messiah, and will lead many astray." 💡

 

[Danoff]

No serious answers...

I'm disappointed. I ask a tough question and you guys just move the conversation to one of the other many religion vs. science threads rather than actually probing your own beliefs.

To be truthful to yourself about your own faith you should be able to answer this simple question.

I’m still looking for a response from someone who believes.

 

[Swift]

No serious answers...

I'm disappointed. I ask a tough question and you guys just move the conversation to one of the other many religion vs. science threads rather than actually probing your own beliefs.

To be truthful to yourself about your own faith you should be able to answer this simple question.

I’m still looking for a response from someone who believes.

Actually, you asked a very loaded question that is rather impossible to answer coming from your expressed viewpoints. You don't believe that a diety would have a relationship with you. So how could it be Jesus I'm talking to? It might be Satan I'm talking to, or some other spirit just floating around.

I know it's Jesus because when he talks to me, it's always good things for other people or work for me to do. Never does it tear down, insult curse or blame. Except for self conviction.

Now, that's my answer.

 

[Danoff]

I know it's Jesus because when he talks to me, it's always good things for other people or work for me to do. Never does it tear down, insult curse or blame. Except for self conviction.

But perhaps it's someone else's diety speaking with you. Allah perhaps, or RA the sun God. Perhaps that other diety is telling you good things or other work for you to do. Perhaps that diety does not tear you down or insult you.

Perhaps it is none of the above, and is in fact an entirely other diety that nobody knows about that you have a personal relationship. Perhaps it is an alien who has telepathy technology. Perhaps you're in the matrix and you're hearing the machines....

My point is, other than that you've heard Jesus talks to people from other people who don't know, you have nothing to go on. You have no idea who you're talking to. You might be being deceived by the devil, or talking to something else entirely.

Give me one shred of evidence that it is Jesus christ you have a personal relationship with.

Have you seen him? Don't tell me he fills you with love because that could also be someone else's God.

...and if you don't actually know it's Jesus Christ you're talking to, what basis do you have to use that as proof that Christiantiy is correct? You can't base it on your personal experiences with some God that you can't rightly identify. You can't base it on anything other than that other people have told you that it is so... but other people disagree with the people you've chosen to believe... so who do you trust?

Other religions have books and personal relationships with their Gods. They also have a huge amount of history and large followings. So how can you pick a religion to follow?

 

[Swift]

But perhaps it's someone else's diety speaking with you. Allah perhaps, or RA the sun God. Perhaps that other diety is telling you good things or other work for you to do. Perhaps that diety does not tear you down or insult you.

Perhaps it is none of the above, and is in fact an entirely other diety that nobody knows about that you have a personal relationship. Perhaps it is an alien who has telepathy technology. Perhaps you're in the matrix and you're hearing the machines....

My point is, other than that you've heard Jesus talks to people from other people who don't know, you have nothing to go on. You have no idea who you're talking to. You might be being deceived by the devil, or talking to something else entirely.

Give me one shred of evidence that it is Jesus christ you have a personal relationship with.

Have you seen him? Don't tell me he fills you with love because that could also be someone else's God.

...and if you don't actually know it's Jesus Christ you're talking to, what basis do you have to use that as proof that Christiantiy is correct? You can't base it on your personal experiences with some God that you can't rightly identify. You can't base it on anything other than that other people have told you that it is so... but other people disagree with the people you've chosen to believe... so who do you trust?

Other religions have books and personal relationships with their Gods. They also have a huge amount of history and large followings. So how can you pick a religion to follow?

You my friend are missing the entire point of my faith and Christianity as a whole. You CANNOT scientifically explain faith. If you could, it wouldn't be faith, it would just be belief. And that's cake.

I know my redeemer lives. I'd love to show him to you, but I don't need to prove it to you to verify it for me.

 

[Danoff]

I know my redeemer lives. I'd love to show him to you, but I don't need to prove it to you to verify it for me.

I'm really asking you to prove it to me. I'm asking you to prove it to yourself. How do you know that you're communicating with the entity you think?

As far as I can tell, you can't justify it to yourself.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

No serious answers...

I'm disappointed. I ask a tough question and you guys just move the conversation to one of the other many religion vs. science threads rather than actually probing your own beliefs.

To be truthful to yourself about your own faith you should be able to answer this simple question.

I’m still looking for a response from someone who believes.

I don't believe now but I once was a christian, does that count?
My personal belief is that religion is definitely contrived. I was once a devout pentecostal christian for about 2 years. I was "saved" right after the 9-11 terrorist attacks. One of the scare tactics evangelists use, IMO, is tragedies such as 9-11, and I bought right into it. Two years later, I started questioning god's existance because I never felt his "presence or "heard" his voice. I then figured out that everything that I thought happended to me that was derived from god was just either simple logic or just coincidence.
I think religion is contrived because the content in the bible has so many flaws that it just isn't believable. How can a book that was "inspired from god" be true if even human beings can point out the flaws from his own words? It just doesn't make sense.

You my friend are missing the entire point of my faith and Christianity as a whole. You CANNOT scientifically explain faith. If you could, it would be faith, it would just be belief. And that's cake.

I know my redeemer lives. I'd love to show him to you, but I don't need to prove it to you to verify it for me.

Actually, you do. Faith is blind, and so is believing. Faith is a very dangerous thing to believe in. So your saying that If I have a deadly disease, or cancer, I should have faith that Jesus will get rid of the cancer? "faith" is for the less-fortunate, and if you have the tools and knowledge to make it in this world, you don't need faith. I don't want to believe that he exists, I want to know.
All of these tele-vangelists on christian channels such as TBN are all fakes.
This Jesus does not exist because if he did, The same religion he started would not be so divided. And to add insult to injury, they're just taking all of the money that you're "tithing" and spending it for there own personal use.
I know because NBC did a report on what happens behind the scenes of these church services evangelists hold at around the world. And these so-called "healings" that occurs at the services are fake, too. There's doucmented proof. If you don't believe me, Go research for yourself, and you'll realize that this religion was just contrived by people who want the money of middle class citizens.

 

[Swift]

I'm really asking you to prove it to me. I'm asking you to prove it to yourself. How do you know that you're communicating with the entity you think?

As far as I can tell, you can't justify it to yourself.

LOL, I justify it to myself in almost everything I do everyday. I've been filled with his spirit, speak with other tongues, seen people healed when I called on his name and prayed for things and seen them answered.

My God is Jesus Christ. Who is yours? BTW, you do have a god. If it's not Jesus, it's someone else or something else. But you do have a god. Your job, your family, money? Whatever it may be, but we all have a master, so what's yours?

I know because NBC did a report on what happens behind the scenes of these church services evangelists hold at around the world. And these so-called "healings" that occurs at the services are fake, too. There's doucmented proof. If you don't believe me, Go research for yourself, and you'll realize that this religion was just contrived by people who want the money of middle class citizens.

What's your point? I totally agree. A lot of those guys are total fakes and frauds. And my pastor warns us about that. I do believe in miracle healing. But it's from your faith, not the faith of the preacher.

LOL, Catholsim was born(in it's modern day form) for the middle class. Go to mass everyday, don't read the bible, tell all your personal business to a "father", and as long as you're baptised as a baby then you can do whatever you want throughout your life and you still get into heaven. Now, as far as that goes, yes, that's contrived of man no doubt.

 

[Danoff]

LOL, I justify it to myself in almost everything I do everyday. I've been filled with his spirit, speak with other tongues, seen people healed when I called on his name and prayed for things and seen them answered.

So your answer is that whatever this thing is that fills you with its spirit and causes you to speak in tongues and heals people responds to the name Jesus. Is that it? That's pretty weak if that's it.

My God is Jesus Christ. Who is yours? BTW, you do have a god. If it's not Jesus, it's someone else or something else. But you do have a god. Your job, your family, money? Whatever it may be, but we all have a master, so what's yours?

I am my master. I control my own actions and thoughts. I control my desitny. I need no God, nor have I seen reason to believe in one. If I were to somehow open a dialogue with a mystical being like you claim to have, I would be very skeptical about who exactly I was talking to.

Again, my will is my master. I am beholden to no one. Not my wife (nor would she want to own or control me), not my job, not my money, not the president, no diety of any kind.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

What exactly is your denomination? No matter which one it is they all have fatal flaws in them, imo.

I have a website for you to visit, Swift. http://www.faithunderfire.com
I was once just like you, completely close-mind to a different point-of view. I strongly urge you to further research your "faith".

 

[Swift]

What exactly is your denomination? No matter which one it is they all have fatal flaws in them, imo.

Then why ask? BTW, I wasn't always saved. I lived a pretty wild life before I found God. So there is no need for me to see a website that's going to say all the things that I said before I was saved. I was the biggest naysayer AGAINST going to church. So that's not news to me.

So your answer is that whatever this thing is that fills you with its spirit and causes you to speak in tongues and heals people responds to the name Jesus. Is that it? That's pretty weak if that's it.



I am my master. I control my own actions and thoughts. I control my desitny. I need no God, nor have I seen reason to believe in one. If I were to somehow open a dialogue with a mystical being like you claim to have, I would be very skeptical about who exactly I was talking to.

Again, my will is my master. I am beholden to no one. Not my wife (nor would she want to own or control me), not my job, not my money, not the president, no diety of any kind.

Sorry, everyone has a god. Whether they know it or not. I'm not talking diety. Your god could be your own pride. Or possibly the acquision of things. You do serve something. If you think about it long enough, you'll see it. It's none of my business and I don't want to know what it is for you. But if you look at your priorities, find the one at the top, that's your god.

Again, in your response, you totally miss the point of faith. You remind me of the hebrews after they crossed the red see on dry ground. After they got to the other side, they quickly forgot about the mircale and started complaining that they would've been better off in slavery then in the wilderness with no food.