Religion is contrived

[Swift]

I believe Famine answered that well.



In case you didn't get it, the answer is no.



OH I GET IT!

IT'S CLOSED MINDED OF ME TO SAY GOD DOESN'T EXIST, BUT IT'S NOT CLOSED MINDED OF YOU TO SAY THAT "YOU WILL SERVE"! I SEE NOW, YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE!

Nope, sorry. Let me prove it to you. Do exactly what you feel like doing when you feel like doing it for a week. See what happens.

I'm not talking religion here. I'm just talking basic rules of life as a human. So do yourself a favor and take it down a notch. For someone that seems so literate, you certainly get angry quite easily.

 

[Famine]

Nope, sorry. Let me prove it to you. Do exactly what you feel like doing when you feel like doing it for a week. See what happens.

What's another week, eh? I expect it'll be broadly similar to the last 9 years, since I moved out of my dad's house and took control of my own life.

 

[Swift]

What's another week, eh? I expect it'll be broadly similar to the last 9 years, since I moved out of my dad's house and took control of my own life.

Yep, so you pay rent right. because you want to or because you like where you live and don't want to be kicked out? You will serve someone or something. If you sit and think about it, like you told me to do with your volcano example in the other thread, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have sole control over what you do. You may have the final choice, but most times you don't get to setup the options.

Danoff, you actually said exaclty what I think but the complete polar opposite. You say you come from nothing and will return to nothing. I say I come from God and will eventually be judged by God. So if I'm being closed minded with that statement then it follows suit that you are being closed minded with yours. Can't have it both ways bud.

 

[Famine]

Yep, so you pay rent right.

Nope.

because you want to or because you like where you live and don't want to be kicked out?

Even if I DID pay rent, it still comes down to choice.

I've picked where I want to live, because it suits me. I've picked my job, because it suits me. The job I go to because I choose to would pay for the rent where I've chosen to live. I could easily choose to live somewhere else.

I could also choose not to pay, and choose to be protected under law for three months living rent free. But it's unlikely I'd choose that, if I were paying rent, which I'm not, because I've been brought up to generally choose the option which is "right".

You will serve someone or something. If you sit and think about it, like you told me to do with your volcano example in the other thread, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have sole control over what you do. You may have the final choice, but most times you don't get to setup the options.

The options are ALWAYS "Choose to" and "Choose not to" - and varying degrees ("Choose to, but do a half-arsed job.") thereof.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Then why ask? BTW, I wasn't always saved. I lived a pretty wild life before I found God. So there is no need for me to see a website that's going to say all the things that I said before I was saved. I was the biggest naysayer AGAINST going to church. So that's not news to me.

It matters because all of the christian religions have different views on how the christian life should be lived, some have different versions of the ten commandments, and some don't even believe that Christ will not have a 1000 year reign! What's up with that? Like I said before, I refuse to believe in a religion that's is so vastly divided.
It took more than just a web-site for me to be converted to be an athiest.
Good, your faith is strong. But I still recommend that you research Christianity, have you got undeniable proof that God exist's? Tell us! Don't just blindly subscribe to this "faith".

Well, the scripture in the King James Version is:

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Uh...so what's the deal. This chapter is describing the second coming of Christ. What's the issue?

What I know is that the second coming of christ isn't the issue
here in this thread. I quoted those verses because I wanted to make an analogy.
What if his return is symbolic? Some verse in the the book of The Revelation
states that "He shall come on a white horse with all of his followers."
(Revelation 19:11-14, basically summed up in a few words) Or if these events will literally never happen but will repeat itself like it always does in history?

 

[Danoff]

So if I'm being closed minded with that statement then it follows suit that you are being closed minded with yours. Can't have it both ways bud.

Neither can you.

Yep, so you pay rent right. because you want to or because you like where you live and don't want to be kicked out? You will serve someone or something. If you sit and think about it, like you told me to do with your volcano example in the other thread, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have sole control over what you do. You may have the final choice, but most times you don't get to setup the options.

I choose to pay rent because I think it's worth it. I choose to work because I want to pay rent. I choose almost every aspect of my life. I choose to come in to work every day - I chose to live where I do, drive what I drive and how far I drive. I choose to pay high prices for gas.

It's all choice. I serve nothing.

 

[Swift]

What I know is that the second coming of christ isn't the issue
here in this thread. I quoted those verses because I wanted to make an analogy.
What if his return is symbolic? Some verse in the the book of The Revelation
states that "He shall come on a white horse with all of his followers."
(Revelation 19:11-14, basically summed up in a few words) Or if these events will literally never happen but will repeat itself like it always does in history?

Asking someone to prove God exists on scientific terms is a contradictions. If you don't beleive in God, I honestly feel sorry for you. I too believe that it's ludicrous that humans have divided Christianity so much. It truly defeats the purpose of what christianity is at a fundamental level.

But Christ's return will a literal as his first visit.

 

[Famine]

But Christ's return will a literal as his first visit.

So all you'll need is a bloke on a white horse saying he's the Son of God and that'll be enough for you?

 

[Swift]

Neither can you.

Exactly! So we're both closed minded. Ok, I'll live with that if you can.

I choose to pay rent because I think it's worth it. I choose to work because I want to pay rent. I choose almost every aspect of my life. I choose to come in to work every day - I chose to live where I do, drive what I drive and how far I drive. I choose to pay high prices for gas.

It's all choice. I serve nothing.

You serve yourself, and last time I checked, that's something.

 

[Danoff]

Exactly! So we're both closed minded. Ok, I'll live with that if you can.

Except that mine was in response to yours. You initiated a closed minded statement (with the help of Pako) and I responded in kind.

I'm fine with that if you are.

You serve yourself, and last time I checked, that's something.

Ok. I think that proves you wrong.

 

[Mark T]

Asking someone to prove God exists on scientific terms is a contradictions. If you don't beleive in God, I honestly feel sorry for you. I too believe that it's ludicrous that humans have divided Christianity so much. It truly defeats the purpose of what christianity is at a fundamental level.

But Christ's return will a literal as his first visit.

No need to feel sorry for us at all. As I posted previously I know when I die I will cease to exist.
Maybe you should feel sorry for the people have died at the hands of extremists who are "following" there religion, and the suicide bombers who believe they will go to heaven if they sacrifice themselves. What a waste of life.

 

[Swift]

No need to feel sorry for us at all. As I posted previously I know when I die I will cease to exist.
Maybe you should feel sorry for the people have died at the hands of extremists who are "following" there religion, and the suicide bombers who believe they will go to heaven if they sacrifice themselves. What a waste of life.

Right, so now I'm of the same people that flew the planes into the world trade center?

 

[Mark T]

Right, so now I'm of the same people that flew the planes into the world trade center?

Did I say that?

I said you should feel sorry for the people who have died at the hands religion.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Asking someone to prove God exists on scientific terms is a contradictions. If you don't beleive in God, I honestly feel sorry for you. I too believe that it's ludicrous that humans have divided Christianity so much. It truly defeats the purpose of what christianity is at a fundamental level.

But Christ's return will a literal as his first visit.

*Smacks Forehead* Noooo, even I know that. I meant any healings or any unexplainable phenominon.

 

[Swift]

*Smacks Forehead* Noooo, even I know that. I meant any healings or any unexplainable phenominon.

Ah well yes, I have a few that I've witnessed and know of personally. Such as a man being healed of AIDS, Diabetess and other chronic illness.

 

[Famine]

So all you'll need is a bloke on a white horse saying he's the Son of God and that'll be enough for you?

?

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Ah well yes, I have a few that I've witnessed and know of personally. Such as a man being healed of AIDS, Diabetess and other chronic illness.

Well, I guess I'm speaking for everybody here when I say that these healings should be confirmed by doctors and documented. they should pay close attention to the healed ones, I've heard that some of those diseases tend to come out of remission. But not only that, these healings should be confirmed by doctors and documented.

 

[Swift]

Well, I guess I'm speaking for everybody here when I say that these healings should be confirmed by doctors and documented. they should pay close attention to the healed ones, I've heard that some of those diseases tend to come out of remission. But not only that, these healings should be confirmed by doctors and documented.

I agree, the AIDS case has been I know for a fact. The diabetess was quite recently so I'm not sure, along with the numerous cancer healings.

 

[Duke]

Bottom line, if you were to exercise your ultimate free will, you would'nt be able to function within your society. I know it wasn't your will to study and work as hard as you did for your master's degree, but it was something you felt you needed to do so you did it. You were in subjection to your ambitions and goals.

I'm not saying subjection is a bad thing, infact it's an excellent thing. When we're in subjection to the right things.

I'm not in subjugation to my goals and ambitions. If anything, thay are in subjugation to me. My choices are based on how I want to live. Therefore I do the things that are required to reach those goals. That means that I have a job and a boss and rules to follow - but it does not mean that I am subservient to my boss or my job or those rules. I am free at any time to change my goals so that I am not required to have a boss or a job. And although it's under discussion in the Libertarian thread, there are a minuimum of rules I'm required to follow.

If I choose not to go to work any more, I'm under no obligation to do so. Of course that means that my ex-company is no longer under any obligation to pay me. So neither of us is subservient to the other because we are both free to change our goals in order to meet what we are willing to do, OR change what we are willing to do in order to meet our goals.

I see no subservience there. And remember, I don't expect to be excused from the consequences of my choices.

 

[Pako]

I'm not in subjugation to my goals and ambitions. If anything, thay are in subjugation to me. My choices are based on how I want to live. Therefore I do the things that are required to reach those goals. That means that I have a job and a boss and rules to follow - but it does not mean that I am subservient to my boss or my job or those rules. I am free at any time to change my goals so that I am not required to have a boss or a job. And although it's under discussion in the Libertarian thread, there are a minuimum of rules I'm required to follow.

If I choose not to go to work any more, I'm under no obligation to do so. Of course that means that my ex-company is no longer under any obligation to pay me. So neither of us is subservient to the other because we are both free to change our goals in order to meet what we are willing to do, OR change what we are willing to do in order to meet our goals.

I see no subservience there. And remember, I don't expect to be excused from the consequences of my choices.

I serve my family through a lot of things, do you?

 

[Swift]

I serve my family through a lot of things, do you?

Yes he does. But he will then say that he chose to have a family so that's the results of his choice.

And that's the thing, I choose to serve Jesus Christ. But that doesn't mean I don't serve him.

 

[Duke]

Correct, that's precisely what I was going to say. In fact it's still on my clipboard.

If you are the one who chooses to serve Christ, then you are not subservient to Him. You can always choose not to. You may serve him, but you are not subservient to him.

Where was this whole 'subservient' thing going again?

 

[Famine]

Not to mention the fact that doing things for my family makes them happy, so I'm more likely to choose to do them since their happiness is intrinsically linked to my own.

 

[Swift]

Correct, that's precisely what I was going to say. In fact it's still on my clipboard.

If you are the one who chooses to serve Christ, then you are not subservient to Him. You can always choose not to. You may serve him, but you are not subservient to him.

Where was this whole 'subservient' thing going again?

Not sure. I was saying that you are submissive to someone or something. Period. You can choice the object of it, but you will be in submission to something.

 

[Duke]

Not sure. I was saying that you are submissive to someone or something. Period. You can choice the object of it, but you will be in submission to something.

I'm submissive to the physical reality of my existence on earth. Period. Ultimately, that's it. The way I choose to deal with that - from being a true Type-A corporate shark pulling in 6 or 7 figures a year, to being a hermit living in a cabin in Montana and hunting/scratch farming for my food, to simply committing suicide so I don't have to be submissive to it - is 100% my choice.

 

[ledhed]

I can think of a couple babes to be submissive to 💡

 

[Pako]

I'm submissive to the physical reality of my existence on earth. Period. Ultimately, that's it. The way I choose to deal with that - from being a true Type-A corporate shark pulling in 6 or 7 figures a year, to being a hermit living in a cabin in Montana and hunting/scratch farming for my food, to simply committing suicide so I don't have to be submissive to it - is 100% my choice.

Ummm.... Montana? Something wrong with Montana? Are you saying I'm a hermit living in a cabin?

 

[Duke]

"Hermit" just means "living alone without contact with society". Nothing wrong with movin' to Montana and raising dental floss. Now, if I'd mentioned "psycho" or "gun nut" or "unabomber"...

 

[PS]

Nope, sorry. Let me prove it to you. Do exactly what you feel like doing when you feel like doing it for a week. See what happens.

You don't get it!

HE CAN CHOSE TO DO ANYTHING HE WANTS. YES, THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES, BUT HE STILL DID WHAT HE FELT LIKE DOING. THERE IS ULTIMATELY NOTHING TO STOP HIM/HER FROM ACHIEVING HIS/HER GOALS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY ARE.

If someone wants to kill someone, then they can. But they'll go to jail. If someone wants to ignore their boss, then they can do it. But they'll get fired.

See? Noone is in subjection to anything (*except possibly you, and whoever else has a similar opinion), they can chose to do whatever they want, but will have to deal with the consequences. Chosing not to do it because of a consequence is also a choice they have made by their own free will— there is ultimately no subjection.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

You don't get it!

HE CAN CHOSE TO DO ANYTHING HE WANTS. YES, THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES, BUT HE STILL DID WHAT HE FELT LIKE DOING. THERE IS ULTIMATELY NOTHING TO STOP HIM/HER FROM ACHIEVING HIS/HER GOALS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY ARE.

If someone wants to kill someone, then they can. But they'll go to jail. If someone wants to ignore their boss, then they can do it. But they'll get fired.

See? Noone is in subjection to anything (*except possibly you, and whoever else has a similar opinion), they can chose to do whatever they want, but will have to deal with the consequences. Chosing not to do it because of a consequence is also a choice they have made by their own free will— there is ultimately no subjection.

Who says the consequences only affect them? You're advocating murder because of choice? Choice is more important than life? If you don't have life, you can't make choices.