requests gone too far

[Samus]

We don't know the real answer, we can only speculate
.

Which is exactly what I said to start with. If PD told us what the problem was we wouldn't have to speculate.

 

[ch3ng]

Gaikai is an investment for the whole Sony Playstation brand, and possibly even their mobile electronics division. It's an investment that will carry into the long future. You can't compare that to an investment of a TEMPORARY sub-license for Porsche for a single racing franchise, which btw seems to be doing just great without. I think their (Sony) priority is elsewhere for now if they're to help PD.

Of course. But you can't compare the 380.000.000 investment with a sub-license or license deal. They don't need so much money for that. Obviously.
I just wanted to say that Sony has enough money. It depends on other things and Sony.

Money is not a problem for them too. Some people say MS has more money and this is true, but we aren't talking about investments like Gaikai here. We are talking about a manufacture license which cost not so much. Sony and MS can afford them easily.

Which is exactly what I said to start with. If PD told us what the problem was we wouldn't have to speculate.

Maybe they can't tell us. NDA.

 

[Johnnypenso]

T10 has Microsoft money, nothing's out of their reach. That's pretty much why they got it, big bucks!

Good point microsoft has and are willing to throw the money around pd and sony are not.

This is like saying that because I have $2Billion and you only have $1Billion, I can afford to buy a Lamborghini and you can't. Both companies have more than enough money to buy any license or make any improvement to the game that they want to.

However, the answer still lies in economics. PD is obviously not seeing a large enough return in the DLC to justify more frequent and larger commitments simple as that. If each DLC cost them $2Million and they made $10Million, there would be a DLC every month, assuming they had the staffing resources to do so and they weren't tied up with something else, like GT6. The economics aren't working out as well as they'd like, so you get just barely enough to keep the fanboys interested and no more.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

Which is exactly what I said to start with. If PD told us what the problem was we wouldn't have to speculate.

I'm merely speculating about speculation but I'm trying to help. Is it possible EA, Porsche, and SONY/PD somehow wrote up a non-disclosure agreement which involves patent laws and by default classifies certain dealings or information confidential?

EDIT: Tree'd by Ch3ng. What he said.

 

[Samus]

I can't think of a reason for an NDA when nothing has been done for so many years. I mean we can assume PD have wanted Porsche since GT2, 13 years ago. They've still not got it from EA so what would there be an NDA on? Have PD tried to negotiate a sub-license, been turned down and then EA denied them from talking about it? Doesn't make much sense to me, especially when T10 were allowed to be pretty transparent.

 

[mikecustom]

I gladly pay 60$ each 5 years than buying a "full price demo" each 2 years,
GT5 did everything I expected GT to do, yes, I was shocked about the standard / premium cars at first but then just got over it and. Career is also abit too short but isnt as hearbreaking as some people tends to name it.
Dont know how many here does work as a game developer, but to think how much work does it need to create a racing game like Gran Turismo, especially when they coded GT5 from scratch (Physics, graphics, sounds, tracks, layouts, online etc)

I say people are expecting way too much these days, and still the same people buy every CoD game once a year, which doesnt change one bit.

Afterall, as their first big title for PS3, GT5 really added alot of things that havent ever been in the franchise until now, so are we really the people to judge them about their work ?

More simple, once you buy a product, you voted for YES, if you didnt buy the game, you did vote for NO.

that last sentence says it all, and i would like to convince people to wait until they read some reviews before buying gt6, do not preorder it or buy it on launch day, i think this is the only way our message can get across, lets make Sony/PD have a heart attack on GT6's launch date, if the game is good enough, then we'll go out there and buy it, if not, at least we won't feel ripped off

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Career is also abit too short but isnt as hearbreaking as some people tends to name it.

A lot more people would say it's more than just "a bit" and they aren't exaggerating either. The rally portion of the game is very poor compared to previous GTs. There also less championships and endurance races than previous GTs. No manufacture events. It's obvious that the career mode didn't get a lot of work put into it. On top of that, even Kaz admitted there wasn't enough events. You can't get closer to the truth than that.

Dont know how many here does work as a game developer, but to think how much work does it need to create a racing game like Gran Turismo, especially when they coded GT5 from scratch (Physics, graphics, sounds, tracks, layouts, online etc)

Not everything in GT5 is from scratch.

I say people are expecting way too much these days, and still the same people buy every CoD game once a year, which doesnt change one bit.

All I exptected was a consistent game with a long and fun single player that was in previous GTs. Don't think that's asking too much.

Afterall, as their first big title for PS3, GT5 really added alot of things that havent ever been in the franchise until now, so are we really the people to judge them about their work ?

Who better to judge than the consumer who gave up their money to get the game?

 

[Earth]

I gladly pay 60$ each 5 years than buying a "full price demo" each 2 years,

They use to release Flight Simulator every two years. Flight Simulator where they have to model the entire world. The whole world! 40 racetracks a problem for PD? Flight Simulator has thousands of accurately modeled airports. 20,000 to be exact. And when they were released every 2 years it didn't feel like a demo.

Theres nothing wrong with PD releasing a full Gran Turismo every two years with improved AI, sound, and physics, more cars, and more tracks. I don't care if it's the same events over and over. As long as the gameplay keeps improving enough they can release one every year and I'd be fine with it.

GT5 did everything I expected GT to do, yes, I was shocked about the standard / premium cars at first but then just got over it and. Career is also abit too short but isnt as hearbreaking as some people tends to name it.

There were whole stretches of weeks in GT4's career mode where I didn't run the same race twice. GT5? I found myself grinding every. single. step. of. the. way. And it felt as tedious as it was to read that last sentence.

Take that forced grinding factor out and GT5's career mode can be completed in a few snaps of the finger.

Only Formula GT had races of any length. 10 lap NASCAR races? Does PD not know real NASCAR races are between 200-500 laps in length? NASCAR races can last up to 4 hours.

10 lap Super GT races? I'm not too familar with the series but their races are so long they have two drivers per car. I believe the average Super GT race is about 3 hours long or even longer in some instances. In GT5 Super GT races are 15 minutes long.

Dont know how many here does work as a game developer, but to think how much work does it need to create a racing game like Gran Turismo, especially when they coded GT5 from scratch (Physics, graphics, sounds, tracks, layouts, online etc)

Spread out too thin comes to mind. Stop messing around with portable GT, stop dreaming of creating a Formula 1 game, and start focusing on the main entry to the GT franchise. Stop adding 80 HP pieces of crap and Samba Buses and start adding exciting cars so your premium car list doesn't look so dated and irrelevant

I say people are expecting way too much these days, and still the same people buy every CoD game once a year, which doesnt change one bit.

I'm not interested in CoD but Madden comes to my mind as an annual franchise that barely changes every year. I use to buy it annual but stopped a long time ago. I bought it once over the last 6 years and that was a mistake. I don't expect a new game every year, but every 2-3 years is reasonable, especially for a racing game which can reuse most of it's car models and tracks.

 

[NCRthree]

Really, how hard would it be to add an Event Generator?

PD has already made an AI difficulty for Arcade and made limited class and car options for online. Having adjustable credits shouldn't be hard-we've got that in the latest seasonals. No extra tracks or new cars need to be created. So much has been adjusted since GT5 started- tire wear, overall physics, wheels for standard cars etc... That part's all done.

Quite frankly I feel like this should be the No. 1 priority. We've had enough 5 lap races with the parked car AI already. Give us the ability to make our own Endurance races with same class cars providing the same options as Arcade. Doesn't seem like that's asking for too much.

 

[Zuku]

MuoNiula pretty much said it best.

GT5 Career mode is so small compared to the previous GT games which is a big no-no I'm happy for the online and even some other stuff, but you know GT in my eyes I felt like they prided themselves on that single player experience.

Quite honestly I was happy with B-spec the way it was before I'm not one to sit around for the 24 hour even the 4 hours races. Shoot I barely stayed awake with the 2 hour races(Indy 500).

 

[mikecustom]

if car spunds were realistic and good i would honestly drive them around just to hear them, even if i had no more events to do or added features to discover, i mean of course an event generator would be awesome but what do i want it for if i cant stand the sound in the first place? no matter how good physics get or how detailed a premium car can be or how entertaining the game can be, the sound alone just kills it for me, i mean why do we watch videos of cars in youtube?, its not because they're incredibly detailed, we just want to hear the sound of it, sure there can be other reasons but sound is one of the things that make a car as an entity, its unacceptable that a game like GT "the real driving simulator" lacks so much in this department, even arcade racers get better engine sounds than gt, i've been playing NFS MW 2005 and that game sounds better than GT5,

 

[Zuku]

Well that finally answers a question I asked back on page 8 you guys are talking about the sounds of cars.

Honestly that's one of those things I ignore not that it's not cool or anything it's not one of those at the top of my lists type things.

Then again maybe I shouldn't as that would add to being immersed into the world of GT. I'm actually having more problems with the weather effects than anything rain not sounding like rain **** it looks very fake actually it's cool that it's there, but it's not as good as it was made out to be.

Also one thing I'm really hoping for GT6 is the crowd and environment interaction being much better then what we dealt with here.

When I played NBA 2K11 two years ago and even today still I felt into the game like I was there(My player mode helped too). With GT5 more and more after the excitement wore off I'm not feeling the same way.

 

[Bluntified]

This is like saying that because I have $2Billion and you only have $1Billion, I can afford to buy a Lamborghini and you can't. Both companies have more than enough money to buy any license or make any improvement to the game that they want to.

But, the one with $2 Billion as an extra Million to seal the deal. My whole thing from before was about Porsche. EA has exclusive rights to Porsche, MS has the money to own EA, that leaves PD/Sony in the background.

Isn't that who EA works? Have you only just heard about EA? They own rights to anything the can get their hands on and sell/auction sub-licenses' to other developers? They had a lock on sport franchises for years now, there is no game that can use Official Team logos (until now with a few baseball games) as no one could put the money up/unwilling to pay, to get a sub-license from them.

I know it's only speculation and assumption here, but doesn't one thing that EA is doing the same thing with Porsche? I for one do!

Edit, to anyone saying "Well Sony can afford it too", afford it yes, have more money than the competition to out-bid, no. It's not the question of Sony affording it or not, it's the matter of if they're willing to put up the money or not, especially if the tag is high. Almost everything here I've mentioned, has to do with winning bidding wars, just to be clear.

 

[sdf]

T10 has Microsoft money, nothing's out of their reach. That's pretty much why they got it, big bucks!

That wasnt my point, you should read the italics above the line that you quoted and what thelvynau and I were talking about.

To say that Sony doesnt have enough money for that kind of things its not serious.
To buy out MS yes, they dont have the money but to buy a license?
Some corporations like MS, Sony, Mitsubishi, Apple have so much money and if they need/want can find even more.
Sony has the money, the question is if porsche sells? and if they do, in what price? and the 1million question is...Will sony ever make a profit out of it?
--------------

I've done a little excavation to my archive to find the 2nd Disc of GT4rologue - Making of... cause i was pretty sure that porsches were showed in there....and for some odd reason my memory served me well.....anyway...

Dont get your hopes high we are talking about an old DVD and porsches may be there cause they share so much with RUF's and PD needed somehow to collect data.

Here's some interesting Screenshots (The ones with black frame are from a slide show that's in the DVD).

 

[Bluntified]

@sfd

I was, and still am, talking about obtaining sub-licenses from exclusive license holders. I agree that anyone can get a license! But rather than repeat myself, just read my previous post, it should clear things up.

Here's a hint, EA is the exclusive license holder's in this case.

Edit, I don't think it necessarily has to to with "if it sells", Porsche, and a lot other other cars in the game, won't make or break the game. Unless you're talking about DLC, that's different as DLC has to be sold separately.

Following these forums long enough, you'll find if it'll sell as DLC or not.

 

[ch3ng]

But, the one with $2 Billion as an extra Million to seal the deal. My whole thing from before was about Porsche. EA has exclusive rights to Porsche, MS has the money to own EA, that leaves PD/Sony in the background.

Not this again.

Isn't that who EA works?

We don't know. Every company likes and wants money, but a Deal isn't only about money.

Have you only just heard about EA?

Have you only heard just yet about Sony and that GT sold over 7.000.000 copies. Sony can afford to pay 1.000 - over 1.000.000 for a license.

They own rights to anything the can get their hands on and sell/auction sub-licenses' to other developers?

No. F1 for example.

They had a lock on sport franchises for years now, there is no game that can use Official Team logos (until now with a few baseball games) as no one could put the money up/unwilling to pay, to get a sub-license from them.

Do you know GT, Forza, PES and other sports games? No?
They can use official teams, manufacture and other stuff. Without asking EA.

I know it's only speculation and assumption here,

Ok.

Edit, to anyone saying "Well Sony can afford it too", afford it yes, have more money than the competition to out-bid, no. It's not the question of Sony affording it or not, it's the matter of if they're willing to put up the money or not, especially if the tag is high. Almost everything here I've mentioned, has to do with winning bidding wars, just to be clear.

Not this again. As long as MS didn't pay over 1.000.000.000 Sony can easily outbid MS. And we didn't know what EA wanted fo accept the Deal.

Gran Turismo sold much better than other racing games and they could sell a DLC and make enough profit in my opinion.

Yes it is about three things.

1. Are Sony willing to agree a Deal with EA for the sub-license.
2. Do they face other problems except money?
3. Do PD has enough ressources left to create Premium Porsche.

I think Porsche isn't in their Top30 To Do list yet.

 

[Bluntified]

@ch3ng

Wow, its like talking to a brick wall, you don't read well do you? You take one of my points and make 3 points that are the same (not as mine but as each other).

I didn't say EA owns rights to ALL manufacturers, I used sports games as an example, this is where I'm unclear of your reading comprehension.

As for not knowing about EA's history, come on, everything in media has exposed them, from newgroups to South Park. South park painted a pretty nice picture if I might add. They are a money hungry organization that will do anything to keep costs high. This includes buying something (holding exclusive rights) and selling some of it (not the whole thing) others for a price. Hence EA owning "exclusive" rights to Porsche and sub licensing to T10.

And, I will repeat myself. Most, if not all, deals have to do with money (or something else monetary value)! What else would there be? These are big corporations we're talking about not some "mom and pop" store, the only thing on their mind is money.

Please, before you make another post, take your time read everything not just bits and think rationally. It also might help if you read my posts on a desktop, you will notice the italics of things to be pointed out.

Edit, before you go on the "we don't know" spree again, just know that it's easy to judge a companies intentions by past activities.

 

[Zuku]

Funny though while I have heard about EA's practices it's been Activision that's more of a dick if you will. EA has done some terrible things, but if out of two of them I'd choose work with EA if I had no choice I'm sorry.

Especially after what happened with Guitar Hero and IW yeah no thanks.

 

[sdf]

@sfd
I was, and still am, talking about obtaining sub-licenses from exclusive license holders. I agree that anyone can get a license! But rather than repeat myself, just read my previous post, it should clear things up.

I was gathering the SS from the dvd and i havent seen your last post.

Here's a hint, EA is the exclusive license holder's in this case.

....and that is the proof that you havent re-reed my previous post to see what i was talking about....Anyway...
With thelvynau we were talking how dev's are communicating and/or share things with their fans.
That is why i told you that this wasnt my point.
I used T10 and Porsche license as an example.

Edit, I don't think it necessarily has to to with "if it sells", Porsche, and a lot other other cars in the game, won't make or break the game. Unless you're talking about DLC, that's different as DLC has to be sold separately.

Following these forums long enough, you'll find if it'll sell as DLC or not.

Now honestly how many chances do you give, if lets say tomorrow PD gets the green light from EA, to release porsche's as a free DLC? I give 0.

As for not knowing about EA's history, come on, everything in media has exposed them, from newgroups to South Park. South park painted a pretty nice picture if I might add. They are a money hungry organization that will do anything to keep costs high.

+1
For me, EA is the cancer of the Video Game industry.

btw...We are way-way off topic here.

 

[gt4viper]

Well when PD finally finish mapping the entire planet, and every means of transportation is available for use, people will start complaining that we don't have space shuttle launches in the game. Some people will never be satisfied, while I love the GT5 as it is, I'm just happy they're still hacking away at the games flaws! Keep it up Kaz!

 

[mikecustom]

Well when PD finally finish mapping the entire planet, and every means of transportation is available for use, people will start complaining that we don't have space shuttle launches in the game. Some people will never be satisfied, while I love the GT5 as it is, I'm just happy they're still hacking away at the games flaws! Keep it up Kaz!

dude no offense but we are discussing adult stuff here, we love GT too, thats why we can't stand PD's actions

 

[gt4viper]

dude no offense but we are discussing adult stuff here, we love GT too, thats why we can't stand PD's actions

Sorry I intterupted, I wasnt talking to anyone in paticular, I was just replying to the OP, my bad. I'll watch out for traffic better next time.

 

[ch3ng]

As for not knowing about EA's history, come on, everything in media has exposed them, from newgroups to South Park. South park painted a pretty nice picture if I might add. They are a money hungry organization that will do anything to keep costs high. This includes buying something (holding exclusive rights) and selling some of it (not the whole thing) others for a price. Hence EA owning "exclusive" rights to Porsche and sub licensing to T10.

Yes EA is the devil. Gues what google company and you will notice that every company only cares about money.

South Park is funny but not a good source.
They only done it with Porsche.

And, I will repeat myself. Most, if not all, deals have to do with money (or something else monetary value)! What else would there be? These are big corporations we're talking about not some "mom and pop" store, the only thing on their mind is money.

Marketing, Advertisment, and many other reasons.

Did you read my example with "Limbo".

Edit, before you go on the "we don't know" spree again, just know that it's easy to judge a companies intentions by past activities.

What i didn't read it correctly. So we don't know
Sry i had to do this.
Did you work for EA? Yes of course money is the most important thing for a company but sometimes you want other things.

- Less costs. Sony and MS want money for every game and content on PSN and retail. Maybe thes said we will not charge money for 1 game.

- Other stuff. Information, license, and so on.

- Or they do it for the relationship to achieve better results if EA wants something from MS for example. They have the Viper in NFS MW which is Turn10 exclusiv if i remind correctly.

But you say they just bet like people bet on ebay. And this is not always true. Money is a part of the Deals.

for example:

Limbo didn't is a PS exclusiv because the devs don't want to lose the rights on the IP.

FC Arsenal sold Fabregas and did get money + Barcelona are not allowed to bet for the 2 youngsters Toral and a defender anymore.
Fabregas, Toral and the defender came from the Barca youth Academy to FC Arsenal.

You see money isn't allways everything.
But this is off topic.

 

[R34EVO9]

People are asking for way too much. Come on, understand that Porsche won't be coming to GT for a while. Think of reasonable DLC requests, not "add everything exotic".

why not?

And theres no such thing as too much its a game anythings possible. Let them ask away and then let pd pick the ones they like..

 

[thelvynau]

why not?

And theres no such thing as too much its a game anythings possible. Let them ask away and then let pd pick the ones they like..

Yeah but you have to agree some of the requests arent exactly whithin the realms of reality and the reality is for a game of its age theres not alot of time to implement them.

 

[MeanElf]

...And theres no such thing as too much its a game anythings possible. Let them ask away and then let pd pick the ones they like..

Not really, there are hardware/software limitations - I mean, be reasonable.

PD I'm sure do pay attention and they have chosen what they like - at least that's clear to me. Just look at the spread of vehicle groups, the cars they've chosen within those groups - classically they are very similar between each game. I think that says enough about what anyone who has played the series consistently can expect.

If people aren't happy with those choices, then there are other games that do have those - feel free to go and play them. I mean, I enjoyed racing trucks in DiRT - I wouldn't expect them to be implemented in GT5 or 6 though - I just go back to DiRT when I want to race one...

 

[Sampyla20plus]

Noticed that many disagrees with me, and I do understand most bits.
But I also noticed that someone dislikes 80 hp cars because these are "crap" and all I can say to that it is wrong to judge every regular car because these arent Lamborghinis, Koenigseggs, Maseratis and so on.
Not everyone cares about the most powerful cars on the planet.

I do agree that Rally, Nascar and Formula got too less attention from PD, previous GT's had alot more variety on Rallying.

Customisable Event Creator would fill that hole just nicely, it was firstly introduced in GT2 anyways.

PS. PD has still continued their work with GT5 even they got hit by a Tsunami last year, and still most people cant think anything but their own belly buttons about this game some tends to dislike so much. Hypocratic ?

 

[Zuku]

Sampyla20plus

I think most people do remember that, and they felt sorry that it happened to them.

Thing is though it doesn't change the fact that GT5 isn't where it should be in terms of a GT game the lacking of Events for Rally, Nascar, and other sports. It's like what are they there for that space could have been used much better than what we got.

It's also kind of funny my friends and I use to have this saying, and I don't know if you guys got it as well, but we'd say "Every time a game has online play the single player part suffers greatly compared to a previous game in a series."

 

[Sampyla20plus]

Sampyla20plus

I think most people do remember that, and they felt sorry that it happened to them.

Thing is though it doesn't change the fact that GT5 isn't where it should be in terms of a GT game the lacking of Events for Rally, Nascar, and other sports. It's like what are they there for that space could have been used much better than what we got.

It's also kind of funny my friends and I use to have this saying, and I don't know if you guys got it as well, but we'd say "Every time a game has online play the single player part suffers greatly compared to a previous game in a series."

That last line is absolute true what comes in about Videogames overall.
I'd like to add that they did something right when considering about how much mileage people does Online each week, millions of kilometres covered, not bad for a racing game I'd say.

 

[Giygas]

I read that Famitsu(a japanese gaming magazine) recently did a Q&A about japanese gamers, and they appear to buy much less dlc than other countries. Maybe this could be a factor for slower dlc rates?

http://kotaku.com/5895474/these-jap...hock-you-they-might-not/gallery/1?tag=famitsu