requests gone too far

[obsessive rules]

@ obesessive rules

Wow the same can be said about GT5 actually PD helped me buy my way through Career mode in GT5 by giving me the X2011, and also those extra bonuses for logging in everyday too.

Also I said in another thread I created that GT5 is between a 8.0 to 8.5 for me as well.

No I mean you pay a tenner in the uk to get ALL cars and events unlocked. Not worth the money.

 

[Zuku]

I didn't know about that, but even still again at least for me in the XL Edition with the DLC they give you coupled with bonuses it could be said you buy your way to finishing the game mucher quicker than the other GT's.

Also about the 70 Tracks it's more like 55(not including reverses) or in that area I don't count the Weather Variation as a new track. Plus the number is a tad bloated thanks to all those variations for certain courses Cape Ring and Nurburgring comes to mind.

I realize GT4 also had this with Fuji and a few others, but it's not nearly amount that GT5 got not by a long shot.

 

[Bluntified]

I didn't know about that, but even still again at least for me in the XL Edition with the DLC they give you coupled with bonuses it could be said you buy your way to finishing the game mucher quicker than the other GT's.

Also about the 70 Tracks it's more like 55(not including reverses) or in that area I don't count the Weather Variation as a new track. Plus the number is a tad bloated thanks to all those variations for certain courses Cape Ring and Nurburgring comes to mind.

I realize GT4 also had this with Fuji and a few others, but it's not nearly amount that GT5 got not by a long shot.

What about time change? I certainly consider it a new track, in the sense that it's a totally different driving experience in the night than from driving in the day. I have a pretty solid line for Nurb in the day, I don't even come close to it in the night, so it really is like learning a new track.

To someone that said there aren't 1000 cars, I've read on these forums that there's 1250.

 

[ch3ng]

👍

And this is why I haven't made a post in here yet. Promise? Huge budget?

DLC wasn't a promise. It was clearly worded in a way that made it an announcement that we'd continue to get DLC, free or paid. Huge budget doesn't speed the process up. It'll make everything take longer if they can spend more money to get what they need/want. A smaller budget should do the opposite.

Sony was the decision-maker with GT5's release date. By definition, GT5 was released too early so it wasn't the fault of the developer.

Sixty-eighty million dollars spent on 100-140 workers (five years of pay for an average of 100 people since at the start of development there were only about 80-100), over 1,000 cars and 20 tracks that they needed to get the licenses for, the new to the series NASCAR license, and this server room http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_K73QfbfhM&feature=player_detailpage#t=9s.

There's gotta be a lot more that I have no idea about. Not sure if it matters at all, but let's not forget that Tokyo, where PD's headquarters were/are at, is one of the most expensive cities in the world.

And have in mind, the Premium cars have the backseats modeled which pCARS doesn't even have done nor is there anything to look at when using looking back in cockpit view. I'm not seriously suggesting that this matters like the rest though.

Five years - GT HD was scratched (the game was meant to be an online-only functioning kind of game), PD had to downsize GT for PSP and use Prologue's physics for it, GT5 Prologue beta/demo was updated twice with Spec II/III and brought a free track and cars, the collaborations PD has had with car manufacturers, and finally, the PS3 is/was the most difficult system to make games on. We are finally seeing multiplats that are just as good if not better than the 360 version, I think, and it's because developers, in layman's terms, made the games for the 360 to transfer to the PS3 afterwards.

let's not forget weather, course maker, time change blah blah blah

You made some interessting sentence.
Should we blame PD or Sony or both?

DLC pricing? Sony

unfinished GT? Sony because Yamauchi wanted two more years. But i think PD could have work faster.

PS3 the hard to develop with hardware? Sony

not possible targets? This is not clear. I think Sony did this to gain auttention and hurt the competition.

 

[thelvynau]

You made some interessting sentence.
Should we blame PD or Sony or both?

DLC pricing? Sony

unfinished GT? Sony because Yamauchi wanted two more years. But i think PD could have work faster.

PS3 the hard to develop with hardware? Sony

not possible targets? This is not clear. I think Sony did this to gain auttention and hurt the competition.

With the budget they were handed could they have hired more staff? just seems weird a large title being worked on by a few people.

 

[another_jakhole]

I don't like doing this since I can't be as specific as possible, but amar212 has already said that the budget (stuff like that) for Sony's game developers is a lot less than we think. I'm summarizing if you can't tell.

You made some interessting sentence.
Should we blame PD or Sony or both?

DLC pricing? Sony

unfinished GT? Sony because Yamauchi wanted two more years. But i think PD could have work faster.

PS3 the hard to develop with hardware? Sony

not possible targets? This is not clear. I think Sony did this to gain auttention and hurt the competition.

This, I don't agree with. Some of the workers sleep at the headquarters to reach their deadlines.

Things like this convince me that the slow work thing is likely to be untrue.

June 2009

AW: How hard was it to make that first game?

KY: It took five years. In those five years, we could not see the end. I would wake up at work, go to sleep at work. It was getting cold. so I knew it must be winter. I estimate I was home only four days a year.

AW: With advances in technology, is it easier to make video games now?

KY: It’s more difficult now because it has become more complex. But the scale of the games has changed. The first one took seven people five years. If you were to try and do it today, it would take 10 times that many.

December 2007

MS: Will you take a rest after GT5's release?

Yamauchi: Due to the online nature of this game, we still need one more year to get it out. We'll progress day by day. The plan is not to start working on GT6 immediately after that. We'll keep adding features or improving things in GT5 taking advantage of the Internet connection. That's why I won't have time to rest. In these 15 years of Gran Turismo I haven't had any holidays.

15 years is when the first GT released, yet in actuality, he's been working on the series since the second half of 1992.


May 2004

PtP: Please complete the following sentence: "When improved hardware like the PlayStation 3 is released...

KY: ...we will have more work, as we will have more polygons available to work with and we will have to use them."

 

[thelvynau]

I don't like doing this since I can't be as specific as possible, but amar212 has already said that the budget (stuff like that) for Sony's game developers is a lot less than we think. I'm summarizing if you can't tell.

I must have missed that thanks.

 

[ch3ng]

With the budget they were handed could they have hired more staff? just seems weird a large title being worked on by a few people.

I don't know. I think a huge part of the budget was used for the 800 standard cars license and marketing.

I don't know how much can PD decide on their own. I think Sony has the last word if they want to add new staff.
And from a company point of view. Why they should add new staff? The game sells very good no need to do anything.
At GT5 start of development and launch Forza was a little franchise and it is not a direct GT competition, because it is Xbox exclusiv.

They didn't need to do anything. Now it can change. GT will get competition with Project Cars and Forza is growing. Some people are disappointed with GT5 and have hopes for GT6 - The real GT5 racing game.

Let's see what Sony will do. I think PD hiring some new staff. Which could be a normal task if we think about PS4. In my opinion every studio needs more staff to develop games when the new consoles arrive.

We will see if GT6 will be on PS3 or 4.

I don't like doing this since I can't be as specific as possible, but amar212 has already said that the budget (stuff like that) for Sony's game developers is a lot less than we think. I'm summarizing if you can't tell.

Interesting. The only thing i know is that Heavy Rain reached the cost on the first day. That means they earned enough money Day1 to get benefits. According to Sony.

So what Amar212 say's could be true. Maybe the 75000000 busget includes marketing.

Has amar212 a good source?

This, I don't agree with. Some of the workers sleep at the headquarters to reach their deadlines.

Ah ok. Ok unfinished GT was Sony's fault.

 

[Zuku]

@ Bluntified

That's almost like saying if I play NCAA or Madden Football every field should be counted differently because of different teams that play there. When the reality is it's the same 100 yard field except Boise St.(In terms of NCAA) cause they have a blue field.

 

[Bluntified]

@ Bluntified

That's almost like saying if I play NCAA or Madden Football every field should be counted differently because of different teams that play there. When the reality is it's the same 100 yard field except Boise St.(In terms of NCAA) cause they have a blue field.

BUT, it would be a different experience if you played them, at night!

Sure the field is the same but the atmosphere is different for each stadium, hence giving it its own uniqueness.

Coming back to what I said earlier, I'm not saying that the tracks are different, I'm only stating that you get a different experience with time change, that's all.

 

[JDMeddie]

What I want will most likely never happen, so I just keep my mouth shut.

 

[ch3ng]

BUT, it would be a different experience if you played them, at night!

Sure the field is the same but the atmosphere is different for each stadium, hence giving it its own uniqueness.

Coming back to what I said earlier, I'm not saying that the tracks are different, I'm only stating that you get a different experience with time change, that's all.

Of course it is a different experience, but it's still the same track. I expected on every track day-/night cycle in GT5. the nurnburg ist awesome with the cycle. I thing that's GT strongest point.

Now i expect weather and day-/night cycle on every track in GT6. Including some race series with latest cars and 2+ tracks from the race series. Better tyre model because it's not good enough compared to other racing games. Livery Editor, real track creator and different other things.

I don't think i ask to much. But some people do.

 

[sdf]

*long a$$ reply post...

So you're ignoring the fact that 1000 premium cars was not possible to do over 5 years with only 150 people

No i am not ignoring it, but the gamers arent to blame and on the other hand they could have selected better premium line up.
Also, horns,museum cards suits and helmets are a nice touch but the spine of a racing game is circuits and cars.
They should have made a solid core first, and then spend time on the secondary things.

I saw the trailers too but I didn't remember seeing saying word for word promises, other than for dlc. Did Kaz also promise we can fly those jets that flew over Daytona in one of those trailers?

Have i said that we should be able to fly the jets? No i havent.Moving on.
My point was that they have showed off too much and they have released many trailers with various staff that everyone was expecting to be in the game.

And this game is way more complete than many others on the PS3. Some games hardly get patched let alone updated.

I said that before mate, do not compare PD with e.x. ninja theory that they dont have the slightest idea how to make a game.
If you want to compare PD with another studio have them against Kojima or Santa Monica.
About Transformers..... is developed by High moon studios?? Do you have any idea what games this studio have released? check wiki....and it is made with unreal engine 3, one of the worst and most lame engines for PS3.
Every multiplatform game that you see made with UE3, 99% is made on 360 an it is imported to PS3.
Mate PD have no excuses on this, is unimaginable for a studio like PD to release a patch to fix 1 thing and brake 4... as there are no excuses for the Gear/transmission chart, that we have the exact same rear spoilers for the last 8000 years, and so on...
People got bored and they need/want new things.

Edit: man I need a smoke.

I've smoked a bloody pack wile writing this post....

And this is why I haven't made a post in here yet. Promise? Huge budget?

DLC wasn't a promise. It was clearly worded in a way that made it an announcement that we'd continue to get DLC, free or paid.

This looks like the bible that everyone interprets it as he sees fit.
I wont get in to that, cause words have a meaning, if PD wanted to mean something else they would have used different words...they arent women that they say one thing and mean another. (sorry girls but is the truth)

Huge budget doesn't speed the process up. It'll make everything take longer if they can spend more money to get what they need/want. A smaller budget should do the opposite.

Yeah tell that to the ignorant people that paid for Burj Khalifa...they've paid 1.5billion so it can be ready in 6 years.
If they knew they would have paid 750millions and the on the top of that it would have been ready in 3 years...with the minor issue that would have been half the building that it is today.
You are joking right?

Sony was the decision-maker with GT5's release date. By definition, GT5 was released too early so it wasn't the fault of the developer.

After 5 years? and multiple delays? and sony facing troubles moving consoles? is sonys fault that PD broke every promise to deliver on time?

Sixty-eighty million dollars spent on 100-140 workers (five years of pay for an average of 100 people since at the start of development there were only about 80-100), over 1,000 cars and 20 tracks that they needed to get the licenses for, the new to the series NASCAR license, and this server room http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_K73QfbfhM&feature=player_detailpage#t=9s.

1-I dont think that the server room is counted in GT5 budget
2-I wont count right now but there are no 20 Real tracks in GT5.
3-About the the 1100 something cars in gt5, i dont have a clue how much a license costs but, if you consider that most of them are Japanese and most of them are copies of gtr's,s2000's,rx7's etc i believe that they havent spend that much in this section.

There's gotta be a lot more that I have no idea about. Not sure if it matters at all, but let's not forget that Tokyo, where PD's headquarters were/are at, is one of the most expensive cities in the world.

Have No idea at all too.

And have in mind, the Premium cars have the backseats modeled which pCARS doesn't even have done nor is there anything to look at when using looking back in cockpit view. I'm not seriously suggesting that this matters like the rest though.

Its look great no doubt about that.

Five years - GT HD was scratched (the game was meant to be an online-only functioning kind of game), PD had to downsize GT for PSP and use Prologue's physics for it, GT5 Prologue beta/demo was updated twice with Spec II/III and brought a free track and cars, the collaborations PD has had with car manufacturers, and finally, the PS3 is/was the most difficult system to make games on. We are finally seeing multiplats that are just as good if not better than the 360 version, I think, and it's because developers, in layman's terms, made the games for the 360 to transfer to the PS3 afterwards.

PS3 was difficult back in 2006-07-08 now we are past half 2012, all of the devs have spend a lot of time learning how to write a code in the bloody thing, it would be stupid not to know after all this years.
Plus that Sony have made some price cuts in SDK's.

let's not forget weather, course maker, time change blah blah blah

No one is forgetting anything mate, but the game needs new things and gamers arent the ones to blame for asking them.

 

[TheProcrastin8r]

Next time I log into gt5, I want a man from PD, preferably Kaz, to come to my house in a helicopter and fly me and the car of my choice to the track of my choice. In no way is this unreasonable.

 

[Bluntified]

@sdf

Sounds like you should be a dev, you make everything sound so easy! Not to mention, you know how to take other games and in-corporate them into one.

GT isn't one of those games that PD can please everyone with! Everyone has different needs and wants out games, how can any dev keep up with it?

As for licensing, I'm almost certain that the lawyers at any AAA Studio's, are working overtime just to keep lawsuits (infringement etc.) down. It's not as easy as, "hey lets put this in it", there's a legal process involved! Lets not forget the legalities in the gaming industry.

 

[tpark103]

Expecting 600 premium cars for GT6 is "going too far", unless PD outsource.

BUT, here's what any average fan should expect from Gran Turismo 6 (and I still cannot believe GT5 is missing these).

Cadillac (only one Cadillac in GT.....EVER! That is pathetic).

Koenigsegg (Sweden's killer supercar manufacturer)

Gumpert (Germany's insane car manufacturer)

RUF (still standard? HOW!?)

Bentley (Have had the license for a while, but why no production cars?)

SSC (Ultimate Aero TT: second fastest car in the world)

Bugatti (Veyron is standard?)

Chrysler, Plymouth, Pontiac, Saleen (Standard? How?)

Noble/ Ascari (add at least ONE British supercar manufacturer)

GT fans should expect more, within reason. This is reasonable. And damnit! This is GT.

It's never a bad idea to have big dreams, they sometimes come true.

 

[Earth]

I don't like doing this since I can't be as specific as possible, but amar212 has already said that the budget (stuff like that) for Sony's game developers is a lot less than we think. I'm summarizing if you can't tell.



This, I don't agree with. Some of the workers sleep at the headquarters to reach their deadlines.

Things like this convince me that the slow work thing is likely to be untrue.

June 2009



December 2007

15 years is when the first GT released, yet in actuality, he's been working on the series since the second half of 1992.


May 2004

If all of that is true, why does GT5 feel so rushed, and why is the A-Spec mode so awful? You'd think if you devoted that much time to a project it would feel polished and the A-Spec mode would be fun, lengthy, and balanced.

Can't say I feel sorry for them sleeping in the office if all the work is going towards modeling the 50th variation of a Skyline or the Nissan Leaf

 

[Zuku]

@ Bluntified

Here's my problem though GT5 came out in 2010 Nov. It would have been one thing had GT5 came out back in 08 or even 07 then at the time we were only dealing with PGR and Forza 2.

Why I say this is by the time GT5 is out MC:LA, Forza 3, Dirt 2, and others had been out.

Basically GT5 didn't benefit like GT3 did it wasn't able to set the bar cause it had already been set by other racing games. While MC:LA is a arcade racer it doesn't matter it's racing all the same.

I do realize PD can't please everyone and I don't expect them too, but I do expect them to keep in mind why we play these games.

Photo Travel and Photo Mode are nice, but when the career mode is as short as it's ever been again that's a problem. Yeah you could say go online, but what if I live in a rural area with terrible internet that options not easy.

 

[Bluntified]

@ Bluntified

Here's my problem though GT5 came out in 2010 Nov. It would have been one thing had GT5 came out back in 08 or even 07 then at the time we were only dealing with PGR and Forza 2.

Why I say this is by the time GT5 is out MC:LA, Forza 3, Dirt 2, and others had been out.

Basically GT5 didn't benefit like GT3 did it wasn't able to set the bar cause it had already been set by other racing games. While MC:LA is a arcade racer it doesn't matter it's racing all the same.

I do realize PD can't please everyone and I don't expect them too, but I do expect them to keep in mind why we play these games.

Photo Travel and Photo Mode are nice, but when the career mode is as short as it's ever been again that's a problem. Yeah you could say go online, but what if I live in a rural area with terrible internet that options not easy.

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and a more dignified response, but you think Midnight Club is the same as GT?? Wow.

I will leave you with a tip though, move! Most, if not all, games are gearing the game towards online. Most games I've played have really short/sloppy single player modes. COD's the first one that came to mind, but there are many others.

Anyone else thinks this thread is getting off track?

 

[thelvynau]

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and a more dignified response, but you think Midnight Club is the same as GT?? Wow.

I will leave you with a tip though, move! Most, if not all, games are gearing the game towards online. Most games I've played have really short/sloppy single player modes. COD's the first one that came to mind, but there are many others.

Anyone else thinks this thread is getting off track?

Yep

 

[Zuku]

@ bluntified

I made the mention of knowing Mc:la was a arcade racer, but I said it's a racing game all the same.Also I was saying that with gt3 pd had a leg up on competition, but with gt5 they did not. Which is why I named some of those other games like midnight club because they had premium vehicles in that game.

I'll continue this later typing on phone sucks lol.

 

[Bluntified]

@ bluntified

I made the mention of knowing Mc:la was a arcade racer, but I said it's a racing game all the same.Also I was saying that with gt3 pd had a leg up on competition, but with gt5 they did not. Which is why I named some of those other games like midnight club because they had premium vehicles in that game.

I'll continue this later typing on phone sucks lol.

Sure they share the same genre but comparing the two is like apple and oranges, sure they're fruit, but they're different.

 

[Zuku]

Not necessarily trying to compare the two games head to head it's more example. Like I said before GT5 Didn't get the same leg up on comp like gt3 did long ago.

Again though I'll finish out this post tomorrow now I go to sleep....... zzzzzzzzzzz

 

[MeanElf]

...for me in the XL Edition with the DLC they give you coupled with bonuses it could be said you buy your way to finishing the game mucher quicker than the other GT's...

As you mentioned in a previous post to the above, you got the XL edition last week.

Originally the career mode took a lot longer, before all the raised bonuses were implemented. It kept most players busy for most of a year to complete - that is if they wanted to do all of the periphery stuff too.

I lost my original lvl 40/40 save when it corrupted, so had to re-start a few months ago - I'm at 38/40 already. I'm only pointing this out as the game initially was far more demanding and not just a quick playthrough as you have experienced.

Now I'm guilty of going off topic...again.

 

[Zuku]

@ MeanElf

In response to you I never knew that I won't be able to experience that either. The only difference between 1.0 and 2.07 as far as A-spec goes is no bonuses correct?

@ Bluntified

Ok like I was saying yesterday Gran Turismo 5 did not get the same advantage GT3 had on PS2. You know as I know GT3 was probably the first racing game on PS2 or at that point best looking on PS2.
I used Midnight Club and other racing games to say this because GT5 came out in 2010 other racing games had already got a leg up on them. Midnight Club had Premium vehicles with interiors I could argue that I was more impressed with MC:LA interiors then I was with GT5. Also games like Wipeout HD/Fury and MC:LA also had a photo mode.

These are reasons why I feel as though the requests for GT5 aren't very demanding. Because as good as the game has been it could have been so much better.

The Gems that were GT3 and GT4 at their respective times did so much more than GT5 did. Cause again for me GT5 doesn't stand too far out it stands out, but it's not that far above many other racing games.

 

[mikecustom]

some of them have gone to far because they request stuff that just wont happen, but in the other hand people who demand more realistic stuff should be heard since they're not demanding new things, they're demanding things that should had been in the game since launch day, all i want is realistic sounds, i dont see how 6-5 years of development could lead to such a bad sound, honestly, it must require more effort to create such a bad sound

 

[MeanElf]

@ MeanElf

In response to you I never knew that I won't be able to experience that either. The only difference between 1.0 and 2.07 as far as A-spec goes is no bonuses correct?

That's why I posted - more of an FYI really.

Prize money was also lower, ditto for XP - that all got hiked quite later on There were the occasional XP/Cash boosts for a month or so during the first year too - in the end though it still took a long time. The changes were made due to gripes about needing to 'grind' which has always been an unofficial part of GT games.

 

[Zuku]

@ mikecustom

See it's funny about the sounds I can't really get into that only because are you guys talking about sounds overall or sounds just on the cars?

@ MeanElf

Well I just have to take your word for that I remember people complaining about it awhile back, but I think people were okay grinding out GT3 and GT4 career modes because there was more to really do in those career modes.

@ mikecustom

I do agree some requests get far out of hand, but again this is GT we're talking about here it's not that run of the mill game for racing it was for the longest THE RACING GAME!
I don't think people expected perfection, but they expected a more complete package then what GT5 1.0 or 2.07 gave out.

 

[sdf]

@sdf

Sounds like you should be a dev, you make everything sound so easy! Not to mention, you know how to take other games and in-corporate them into one.

I am in a way in the industry...but that has nothing to do with common/plain logic.
Some things are easy, for example how hard can it be to make wider the transmission chart? There are some things like that make you genuinely believe that no one from PD is actually playing the game.

GT isn't one of those games that PD can please everyone with! Everyone has different needs and wants out games, how can any dev keep up with it?

They cant and it is simple as that, i am with you in this... and it isnt just PD/GT, no game can have every single fan happy.
However many studios have forums that they really listen/interact with their fans, they even post poles on their sites.
PD isnt doing any of that.

As for licensing, I'm almost certain that the lawyers at any AAA Studio's, are working overtime just to keep lawsuits (infringement etc.) down. It's not as easy as, "hey lets put this in it", there's a legal process involved! Lets not forget the legalities in the gaming industry.

As i said before i have no clue at all how this thing works.
My best guess is that some companies like Nissan,Toyota etc must have good relationships with PD/Sony.

My point is that request have gone too far cause PD's actions.
Gamers arent the ones to blame.

 

[thelvynau]

I am in a way in the industry...but that has nothing to do with common/plain logic.
Some things are easy, for example how hard can it be to make wider the transmission chart? There are some things like that make you genuinely believe that no one from PD is actually playing the game.

They cant and it is simple as that, i am with you in this... and it isnt just PD/GT, no game can have every single fan happy.
However many studios have forums that they really listen/interact with their fans, they even post poles on their sites.
PD isnt doing any of that.

As i said before i have no clue at all how this thing works.
My best guess is that some companies like Nissan,Toyota etc must have good relationships with PD/Sony.

My point is that request have gone too far cause PD's actions.
Gamers arent the ones to blame.

So would it be better for pd to state we cant get x car due to we arent allowed the licence?

would the dlc requests reduce with more communication from pd?