Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[eran0004]

@prisonermonkeys , @eran0004
I've been talking with some people from Ukraine and they say that Tyahnibok is a "clown politician" and almost nobody takes him seriously, just like Vladimir Zhirinovskiy (the leader of LDPR party who's sitting in the Duma) in Russia.

Sometimes the clowns are the most dangerous ones. Just look at Kim Jong-un.

Well, if they really are not about racial discrimination, just about struggling the oppressing regimes - then what's bad about them?

If that was all the were about... sadly it isn't.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The rock, the hard place.

Right now Ukraine has the chance to hold the most-monitored elections in world history. That's still a better option than what was in place, at least that's how it seems to me.

 

[Sanji Himura]

The question is will they be fair though?

Huffington Post is reporting by this link, that any ballot that says that they want to maintain the status quo (i.e. remain a part of Ukraine) will be counted as "spoiled" by the Russians and won't be tallied.

So basically you have two speeds on reunification with Russia, fast and pedal to the metal.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Take the quote marks out of your link

 

[Sanji Himura]

Is that better?

 

[SMfan]

@eran0004 - you do have legitimate points in your posts, but the fact that you are talking exclusively about Svoboda and nazis is kinda, uhm... odd.

 

[Rage Racer]

Sometimes the clowns are the most dangerous ones. Just look at Kim Jong-un.

Kim Jong Un is much different kind of clown. He has unlimited authority in his country, and anything he orders is enforced right away. He also probably has no idea how ridiculous he is, while Tyahnibok and Zhirik actually suppose their statements less real and they just don't have the authority to make them come true.

Yesterday, I asked a Ukrainian guy, what does he think about Tyahnybok. He answered:
"I don't understand why there's so much fuss about him in Russia. Tyahnybok was never respected as a politician, he's a political impotent. Even more idiotic clown than Zhirinovskiy of yours. I've never taken him serious."

 

[MHPALA]

 

[Chrunch Houston]

@MHPALA wow, that video nearly brought me to tears. Such cruelty.

@Rage Racer Is there some cultural significance about the ethnic Russians wanting the Ukrainians to get on their knees? I saw this in another, much less graphic, video a few days ago.

 

[Rage Racer]

@Rage Racer Is there some cultural significance about the ethnic Russians wanting the Ukrainians to get on their knees? I saw this in another, much less graphic, video a few days ago.

Well, depending on what you mean by "get on their knees".
Most Russians always referred to Ukrainians as "brothers". But now, those who believe the media propaganda think: "We used to be brothers! But now you've prostituted yourself to the West! Traitors! Fascists!"

But I know they are just frazzled out by the regime. Millions of people cannot be fascists like the media says.
Our government does not want anything like that happen in Russia, so they do everything so people don't sympathize the Maidan. Anyone protesting against the government is a "traitor paid by the West" and/or a "fascist".

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Well, depending on what you mean by "get on their knees".

I meant what is happening in this video:

The ethnic Russians want the pro-Ukrainians to get on their knees. And after the Pro-Russian crowd breaks through the police barakade they force the pro-Ukranian protesters to their knees.
I saw another group of ethnic Russian people in Crimea saying the same thing to a different group of pro-Ukrainians just the other day.

I was just wondering if getting on your knees had some type of cultural significance to Russians.

Here in the US the cops will tell you to get on your face, or to get on the ground face down. Both terms mean to lay face down on the ground.

 

[Rage Racer]

I was just wondering if getting on your knees had some type of cultural significance to Russians.

Ah, yes. Putting someone on the knees is a form of humiliation. But it's not about Ukrainians specifically, it doesn't matter who gets put on the knees.
Ukrainians have this too, for example, the Maidan rebels have been putting the captured police officers on the knees.

 

[Dennisch]

Putin is shutting down websites he doesn't like..


So, censorship is getting worse. Be careful what you say in the future, @Rage Racer

 

[Sanji Himura]

This isn't a laughing matter. You would expect this sort of business out of China, North Korea and Iran, but what Putin is doing here is controlling the free flow of information that contradicts his agenda, which ultimately is strong arming control of Ukraine as a free nation. Why else is Reuters is reporting that Russia is shipping more troops and armor into the Crimea for war games?

Also, with the EU basically under threat by Russia's energy spicket, they are basically powerless to stop them from taking over the rest of the former soviet republics.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-holds-war-games-near-ukraine-merkel-warns-003811476.html

 

[Rage Racer]

Putin is shutting down websites he doesn't like..


So, censorship is getting worse. Be careful what you say in the future, @Rage Racer

Did you find it out just now? There is a law about locking websites, passed more than a year ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Restriction_Bill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Internet_blacklist

I used to read some groups on VK (the Russian social network, like Facebook) about the Ukrainian revolution, Maidan and the Right Sector, but now they are locked. Bastards. (However, their FB pages work normally)
Five more years and we'll have something like the Great Chinese Firewall.

 

[TenEightyOne]

what Putin is doing here is controlling the free flow of information that contradicts (their) agenda?

For greater accuracy replace the word "Putin" with the name of any "free world" state leader. That's just how it is, and if you think that the US, UK or Botswana are any different then you're very mistaken. We tend to put up with it more when we've been persuaded to agree with the agenda, but that's how propaganda is.

 

[Sanji Himura]

For greater accuracy replace the word "Putin" with the name of any "free world" state leader. That's just how it is, and if you think that the US, UK or Botswana are any different then you're very mistaken. We tend to put up with it more when we've been persuaded to agree with the agenda, but that's how propaganda is.

I'm not that naive. Free flow of information is blocked all the time across the globe, but the degree of that blockage goes from each leader's agenda to another leader's agenda when it suits them. That is why the UK banned the teachings of Hard Focus Training founder's Five Second Survival web page.

What Putin is doing here is similar to what China and Iran does when it wants to restrict Western information, and that is basically put up this massive internet filter at the ISP level just because they want the nation to justify the invasion, and that is simply unacceptable.

 

[TenEightyOne]

US "deeply concerned" about Russian troop movements on the Ukrainian/Crimean border (see how that almost recognises the split already ).

Not sure if just White House news or accurate, it's on the BBC Breaking feed so I'll post a fuller update if it shows up.

 

[Dotini]

Once Crimea holds its referendum, and Moscow reacts with an annexation or even something less, there will be a ripe old hissy fit coming from Kerry. Supposedly, Obama will stay cool and proceed only with minor sanctions.

I suspect those troop movements along the Russia/Ukraine border in the vicinity of Donetsk are to provoke anxiety, jitters and ill-considered actions upon the west Ukrainians.

 

[Exorcet]

Russia appears to have taken down a US aircraft.

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...mean-airspace-Russias-state-corporation-2994/

 

[TenEightyOne]

Russia appears to have taken down a US aircraft.

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...mean-airspace-Russias-state-corporation-2994/

Oh dear.....

 

[SMfan]

I meant what is happening in this video:
I was just wondering if getting on your knees had some type of cultural significance to Russians.

Ah, yes. Putting someone on the knees is a form of humiliation.

Isn't it, like, international? I don't think it goes beyond that in a more sophisticated way.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I was think more along the lines of "Boom, Boom, Boom", like Javier Bardem approaching the manor house in SKYFALL.


And Andrew Bolt.

That was an epic scene.

 

[Exorcet]

Oh dear.....

It was only a UAV, no weapons fired, it was brought down through electronic warfare.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Isn't it, like, international? I don't think it goes beyond that in a more sophisticated way.

Normal for prisoners to kneel with their hands behind their heads, certainly the way during the Argentinian surrender on the Falklands. I guess the reason is that it's easier for one person to watch the line and see movement, and it's hard to get from that position to a run without it being obvious that you're moving.

 

[eran0004]

@eran0004 - you do have legitimate points in your posts, but the fact that you are talking exclusively about Svoboda and nazis is kinda, uhm... odd.

How is it odd? The Ukrainan revolution got kidnapped by neo-nazis. What started as an attempt to get Ukraine closer to the EU got hijacked by the extreme right that wants neither EU nor Russia - they want to build a "pure" Ukraine for ethnic Ukrainans only. Swedish neo-nazis are very active in this mission, the latest development is that those who travelled from Sweden to Ukraine to help with the revolution are now enlisting in the Ukrainian army.

I think it's something that's worth talking about.

Kim Jong Un is much different kind of clown. He has unlimited authority in his country, and anything he orders is enforced right away. He also probably has no idea how ridiculous he is, while Tyahnibok and Zhirik actually suppose their statements less real and they just don't have the authority to make them come true.

Yesterday, I asked a Ukrainian guy, what does he think about Tyahnybok. He answered:
"I don't understand why there's so much fuss about him in Russia. Tyahnybok was never respected as a politician, he's a political impotent. Even more idiotic clown than Zhirinovskiy of yours. I've never taken him serious."

Kim Jong Un do have a lot of power, but Svoboda got 10% of the votes in the latest election so they're not nobodies. And now when they're in the government and their vote is required to pass new laws they'll have more power than before. Also, the Swedish extremists on site has rapported that the far-right groups in Ukraine have "the most impressive underground organization we've ever witnessed".

 

[Rage Racer]

How is it odd? The Ukrainan revolution got kidnapped by neo-nazis. What started as an attempt to get Ukraine closer to the EU got hijacked by the extreme right that wants neither EU nor Russia - they want to build a "pure" Ukraine for ethnic Ukrainans only. Swedish neo-nazis are very active in this mission, the latest development is that those who travelled from Sweden to Ukraine to help with the revolution are now enlisting in the Ukrainian army.

I think it's something that's worth talking about.

The leader of the Right Sector (the organization that acted the biggest role in the revolution), Dmitro Yarosh, had told that he does not support any racial discrimination and will prosecute this in future. I don't know why they are tagged as "nazis" by the Russian media. None of the national minority was hurt after the revolution. The Right Sector has Russians, Poles and even Jews in their units.

Kim Jong Un do have a lot of power, but Svoboda got 10% of the votes in the latest election so they're not nobodies. And now when they're in the government and their vote is required to pass new laws they'll have more power than before.

...And now they don't play Nazis anymore since their authority has seriously gone up.

 

[Dotini]

The Ukrainan revolution got kidnapped by neo-nazis. What started as an attempt to get Ukraine closer to the EU got hijacked by the extreme right that wants neither EU nor Russia - they want to build a "pure" Ukraine for ethnic Ukrainans only. Swedish neo-nazis are very active in this mission, the latest development is that those who travelled from Sweden to Ukraine to help with the revolution are now enlisting in the Ukrainian army.

I think it's something that's worth talking about.

An article from the NY Times discusses right wing mercenaries stirring up trouble in Donetsk. This could provoke a new military intervention from Russian troops, so some people are getting very worried now.

"Dmitry Cherniavsky, 22, an activist for Svoboda, a far-right political organization that supports the new Kiev government, was fatally stabbed, the first death from clashes in eastern Ukraine and a watermark in the conflict’s escalation."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/w...ukraine-fueling-expectations-of-war.html?_r=1

 

[Rage Racer]

The situation in eastern Ukraine is getting hot again, like in Kiev. The new stage of the crisis begins...

 

[Dennisch]

Ukraine is now claiming that the Russians have taken control over a village just outside the Crimea, Strilkove.

The regional parlement of the Crimea has been dissolved by Kiev, as an symbolic act for the upcoming referendum.


Also, I have been thinking. If poop goes down in Ukraine, what will happen at Chernobyl? I know they are working on a new housing for the concrete coffin.