Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[eran0004]

Lavrov says he is prepared to talk if Ukraine stops fighting.

This means two things:
1. The war is not going as well as Russia had hoped.
2. Lavrov is too dumb to realise that Russia is the aggressor and that all they need to do to stop the fighting is to call off the invasion.

 

[Gas12]

How on earth can anyone in Russia or elsewhere believe in what Putin and his war criminals are doing or saying ,if only the Russian people would get rid of them on their own,these idiots have stolen so much money from their own Russian people.They are a disgrace to humanity.

Many do, but they don't last long.
I have many a pop shot at the governments and MP's of the UK over the years. I'm pretty anti authority although as i age that lessens.

But the truth is the very fact i can openly mock for example Boris or whoever and not end up imprisoned or worse, is the true meaning of freedom.
I know it doesn't always feel like we are free and in reality democracy is a bit flawed.
But seeing this play out and how Russia treats its critical citizens, well, I'd take what we have any day...

 

[Bram Turismo]

Lavrov says he is prepared to talk if Ukraine stops fighting.

This means two things:
1. The war is not going as well as Russia had hoped.
2. Lavrov is too dumb to realise that Russia is the aggressor and that all they need to do to stop the fighting is to call off the invasion.

Whenever I hear Lavrov talking, I feel like he is equally as wicked and dangerous as Putin.

Yesterday morning my girlfriend woke up in tears. It's absolutely heartbreaking for us to see the destruction of beautiful Kiev. Her family is safe for now, but unfortunately they have nowhere to go, so every minute we pray that they continue to find safety.

I prepared everything here in Belgium for her mom and brother to visit her after they haven't seen each other for a over a year. And to wake up to these events is absolutely horrific. Everything was ready until we heard all air traffic was stopped.

I pray for every Ukrainian currently seeking shelter and safety, and may God be with its defenders.

I also have an incredible amount of respect to the protestors in Russia, they are literally risking their freedom to show up out on the streets.

 

[Daz555]

The same thing applies though, would NATO risk a nuclear war by defending Lithuania? If Putin sees that the nuclear threat works to deter NATO from intervening, he can apply the same threat when it comes to NATO members.

100% yes. Lithuania would be defended robustly as it is a NATO member.

 

[Nielsen]

... what makes you think it would be taken seriously? What benefit do you think threatening the Russian people will bring? What makes you think that even if it was an effective threat, that it would act to de-escalate things, rather than being met with similar actions from Russia?

Because I believe power politics are the way forward when diplomacy doesn’t work. I don’t think it would de-escalate the current conflict, but I think it would help to prevent it from escalating beyond Ukraine.

It's a waste of credibility in my opinion. The USA hasn't put a troop on the ground in Ukraine yet, there cannot be an emptier threat than pretending you'll bring about the end of the world as we know it when you're not actually prepared to risk 1 soldier.

I’m talking about deterrence here. You make it sound like I’m suggesting American aggression, which I’m not.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I think United States needs to conduct a nuclear test. Just to underscore the sanctions with a military statement.

Part of the problem is that Europe has just waited for the US to step in for the last 70 years... probably a good time to start pivoting away from that

 

[Nielsen]

Part of the problem is that Europe has just waited for the US to step in for the last 70 years... probably a good time to start pivoting away from that

Part of what problem? I see no connection between your reply and my quote.

 

[Daz555]

It's at times like these I hate the military. "Thankyou for your service and all that" but ultimately it is those who are willing to murder at the orders of a politician who are the biggest part of the whole problem.

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.” – Albert Einstein

 

[Touring Mars]

Horrible news coming from Ukraine, and my thoughts are with the Ukranian people right now. I also feel somewhat sorry for the Russian people who also stand to pay a heavy price for the barbaric and atrocious actions of Putin and his odious regime.

I doubt many people outside of his corrupt inner circle ever truly trusted or respected Putin before, but he has now removed any doubt whatsoever that he is a bare-faced liar who will stop at nothing to realise his ambitions. The question is now, however, if Putin is prepared to behave like an animal, who is going to stop him and how...?

What sickens me the most is the supposed justification that Putin and his supporters have repeatedly made for this, and yet I also get the distinct feeling that even those who have previously attempted to rationalise Putin's behaviour have been caught off guard by the reality of what Putin is now doing. 'Self-defence', 'demilitarisation'? A load of ********. There can be no justification for what Putin has chosen to do, and he and his regime will pay for it. Let's just hope that vast numbers of innocent people - be it in Ukraine, in the wider region and indeed in Russia too - don't end up paying for it too, though many already have and many more will undoubtedly die at Putin's hand.

Putin is finished as a world leader, but what makes him especially dangerous is that he likely knows this and is now executing his 'do or die' gambit.

 

[Scaff]

'Self-defence', 'demilitarisation'? A load of ********.

Don't forget 'de-nazification' of a country that, checks notes and shakes head, has a Jewish president

 

[Dotini]

Horrible news coming from Ukraine, and my thoughts are with the Ukranian people right now. I also feel somewhat sorry for the Russian people who also stand to pay a heavy price for the barbaric and atrocious actions of Putin and his odious regime.

I doubt many people outside of his corrupt inner circle ever truly trusted or respected Putin before, but he has now removed any doubt whatsoever that he is a bare-faced liar who will stop at nothing to realise his ambitions. The question is now, however, if Putin is prepared to behave like an animal, who is going to stop him and how...?

What sickens me the most is the supposed justification that Putin and his supporters have repeatedly made for this, and yet I also get the distinct feeling that even those who have previously attempted to rationalise Putin's behaviour have been caught off guard by the reality of what Putin is now doing. 'Self-defence', 'demilitarisation'? A load of ********. There can be no justification for what Putin has chosen to do, and he and his regime will pay for it. Let's just hope that vast numbers of innocent people - be it in Ukraine, in the wider region and indeed in Russia too - don't end up paying for it too. Putin is finished as a world leader, but what makes him especially dangerous is that he liekly knows this and is now executing his 'do or die' gambit.

Passionately said, and I sincerely share your hopes for a peaceful future.

With regard to your question, I would say that Putin has made abundantly clear the disunity and dysfunctionality of NATO, the one and only organization capable of stopping Putin in his tank tracks. The US and Germany are obsessed with navel gazing social, economic and energy problems, and chasing down mad dictators has long been off their radar screen.

 

[dacc10]

Part of the problem is that Europe has just waited for the US to step in for the last 70 years... probably a good time to start pivoting away from that

The lack of investment in their militaries as become a problem. Flexing the muscles, without having muscle at all is pretty much pointless. We will see if this conflict changes that. Right now, even the richest European countries, don't bother reaching the 2% of GDP on military budget per year, that NATO demands.

It's at times like these I hate the military. "Thankyou for your service and all that" but ultimately it is those who are willing to murder at the orders of a politician who are the biggest part of the whole problem.

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.” – Albert Einstein

It's... not that simple. There's always two sides of the coin. If the ones attacking Ukraine are military, the ones defending it are military as well. You hate them both, and both are murderers? Or just the Russians? In a war it's kill or be killed. At the end, it's just survival and self preservation. You may ask why they went to war in the first place, but between being brainwashed, obligued, there are multiple reasons to go to war by the orders of a politician. Some of those soldiers might also be psychos, sure. Then culturaly everyone is different, so they will have different takes on "war".

There's a narrative that says that if there were no military forces, there would be world peace. But that is a lie. War is inherent of the human species (and competition is inherent to life itself). There were wars way before there were weapons or militaries. Removing weapons as a whole from the face of the earth will mean that humans will fight with anything else, be it a stick, a chair, a pencil, or their bare hands. It's inevitable, we can only try to avoid it as much as we can.

 

[Liquid]

Slovakia has made all rail transport for Ukrainian citizens free of charge; the Slovakia-Ukraine border has seen a surge of people in the last 24 hours.

Košice, Slovakia's second-city and about an hour away from Ukraine, has already seen its first influx of refugees. Bratislava, the capital and where I live, is way at the other, western end of the country but I expect we will have a lot of Ukrainian refugees sooner rather than later. The Mayor of Ružinov, the Bratislava borough where I work, has begun arranging empty properties for temporary accomodation.

 

[Joey D]

Don't forget 'de-nazification' of a country that, checks notes and shakes head, has a Jewish president

A Jewish president who also had at least three family members (grand-uncles) murdered due to the Holocaust.

 

[Dennisch]

Would be nice if Vladimir suffers from a stroke this weekend.

 

[Blitz24]

Don't forget 'de-nazification' of a country that, checks notes and shakes head, has a Jewish president

Jews get called Nazis, white supremacists, racists and other derogatory terms all the time depending on the person making the statement. This is nothing new.

 

[Dotini]

I found this on another loud noises and stinking smoke forum:

This operation has been planning since 2014 when the US State Dept and the CIA covertly interfered in the Ukraine by toppling Putin's puppet.

US and NATO knew this and sat on their hands for 8 years. Zhirinovsky even announced the exact day of the invasion in an address to the Duma in October whose video was openly published then.

Putin had 8 years to game all this out including any reactions from the west. Apparently the west didn't game out anything. Sad.

Putin may or may not be a madman, but the west is collectively the stupid man.

 

[Danoff]

China has border disputes with pretty much every country around them. If they see Russia get away with this then they will most likely do the same thing.

I think China is a bit more... careful... in these regards than Russia. I'd expect it to be much more smooth.

 

[Rage Racer]

Reportedly, Zelensky and Putin agreed for peace talks in Minsk. Hopefully, they actually end this mess once and for all and it won't be another useless asswipe paper signed like the previous two Minsk agreements. But I have little hopes for that.

The video apparently showing a Russian tank swerving to intentionally flatten a Ukrainian car, speeding in the opposite direction, was my morning dose of "what-the-****-is-going-on!".

This one?
It's a Ukrainian Strela-10 launcher vehicle, not a tank. The place is identified as Kyiv, Obolon district. I don't think a single Russian anti-air vehicle would be freely roaming around Ukraine-held capital. The car driver survived. I think it wasn't intentional, since armored vehicles like this have poor visibility from inside.

Here's another footage of the same Strela-10 in living blocks of Obolon, Kyiv. And another. Looks like it's lost its way. There are no "Z", "V" or other invasion markings of the RF ground troops. But the propaganda calls this vehicle Russian, and the fact that Ukraine mostly uses Soviet equipment helps doing so.

Remember: there's an infowar also going on. Propaganda, disinformation and misinterpretation are coming from ALL sides. Use critical thinking and maintain informational hygiene.

 

[Famine]

there's an infowar also going on

Heh, quite.

 

[McLaren]

Reportedly, Zelensky and Putin agreed for peace talks in Minsk. Hopefully, they actually end this mess once and for all and it won't be another useless asswipe paper signed like the previous two Minsk agreements. But I have little hopes for that.

Do you know if that means a temporary cease-fire for the time being?

 

[MatskiMonk]

I’m talking about deterrence here. You make it sound like I’m suggesting American aggression, which I’m not.

The USA can set off as many nukes as it wants in order to 'threaten' Russia, but unless Russia believes the USA will risk its own obliteration, it knows they won't use them - that's the deterrent - mutually assured destruction. The deterrent isn't to imply "better do what we say or we'll nuke you...", which is how 'power politics' sounds to me.

 

[Liquid]

Belarus is like... the second-worst place for peace talks? Zelenskyy is all but walking into a kidnap trap going for peace talks there instead of, say, Sweden, Switzerland or Austria (also non-NATO members to placate Putin's insanity).

 

[Blitz24]

Curious as to why Minsk and not a neutral site? Is Putin afraid he will receive negative press elsewhere or is he looking for a way to execute the, in his words, "Nazi"?

 

[Dennisch]

I think it wasn't intentional,

Here, you dropped this:

 

[Dotini]

Curious as to why Minsk and not a neutral site? Is Putin afraid he will receive negative press elsewhere or is he looking for a way to execute the, in his words, "Nazi"?

Beggars can't be choosers. Zelensky is probably eager to salvage something from the carnage - not least of all his life.

 

[Blitz24]

Just Russia casually threatening other countries if they join NATO:

 

[Rage Racer]

Here, you dropped this:

Alright, I believe you have enough experience of driving an armored vehicle on streets with traffic to assume that a Ukrainian Strela-10 driver would smash a car of a Ukrainian civilian only intentionally.

Or you assume he did it intentionally to be filmed and blame Russia for this?

 

[McLaren]

From the Middle East, comes an unexpected voice.

 

[Dennisch]

Alright, I believe you have enough experience of driving an armored vehicle on streets with traffic to assume that a Ukrainian Strela-10 driver would smash a car of a Ukrainian civilian only intentionally.

Or you assume he did it intentionally to be filmed and blame Russia for this?

It's an all but empty street, it drives in a straight line and as a cars passes it suddenly steers.

Honk Honk.