- 531
- Colorado
- Just Chyllan
This is like my current set up in my evo. Discuss.
off road 4wd
Don't get me wrong, I prefer manuals, but autos are taking wheeling by storm. It's so much nicer. And you don't burn through a clutch every hour.
Really? Because last I remembered, most professional drift cars were running sequential gearboxes of some sort instead of the conventional 5/6-speed manual.There are motorsport fields where auto will never be able to replace manual, like in drifting, off road 4wd, those 2 comes to my mind and maybe there's more ?
I prefer manual over auto for the simple reason of clutch slip, somehow I felt more in control of giving power to the wheels especially when less is necessary, unlike auto where there are only 2 state, have power or none![]()
Don't get me wrong, I prefer manuals, but autos are taking wheeling by storm. It's so much nicer. And you don't burn through a clutch every hour.
Really? Because last I remembered, most professional drift cars were running sequential gearboxes of some sort instead of the conventional 5/6-speed manual.
Boo!I will never own a auto. My kids will be taught on a stick. Should be fun.
Do they have auto 4wd on off road challenge / adventure events ? Like in these :
I am thinking with auto, the car would have serious issue when going through rocky surface, mud, waist/chest high river crossing etc.
Well, not all of them use it, I wonder if the driver ever need to clutch kick... I am sure there will always be drifter with good 'ol manual, not all have the money to spend on expensive sequential box, I mean not all competing at high level pro drift events.
What? Like I said I prefer manual. I learned on it. 3/3 cars I own now are manual.
........... but autos are taking wheeling by storm.
I cannot speak for the professional arena, but as far as recreation goes they are very popular. They have no trouble water fording, and I can't imagine why you think they would.
A sequential setup like that still has a clutch, so they can still clutch kick.
My apologies. Wasn't meaning to offend by any means. Hence the smiley. In fact, the boo was more directed at this:
I'd be looking forward to that if I were you!
Three of the four kids are girls. Which means I'll be teaching three teenage girls to drive stick. Pity me.
Technologically a DCT is superior* and a manual is antiquated technology. It's not a sweeping statement, it's a fact.
No one would say an SNES is technologically better than a PS3 or that a record player is technologically superior to an iPod.
I couldn't agree more. 👍The way I see it is, shifting is pretty much second nature to me, call it me being good at operating a poor interface/outdated technology, whatever floats your boat, but when I don't need the benefits of a manual, I'm not bothered by the "inconvenience" of having to shift gears, but when I do need them, they're there. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever "needed" something that an automatic has to offer, and NOT having the benefits of the manual is annoying. And I'm not talking about being able to shift down manual to pass a car.
The clutch. The whole point is the clutch. For those of us who derive objective utility and value from that control, the DCT will never replace manuals because the whole point of DCT is to eliminate the manual clutch. That's why we won't be convinced to accept DCT as the future; it's why we're so stubborn about it. You're asking us to abandon the very foundation of why we drive what we drive.What I'm talking is about is those who use the argument you have more control over your car with a manual. I know you know this, but car control is way more then just gear selection. I think you have to be specific with what exactly you have control over.
If a manual clutch offered literally nothing unique over driving a DCT, then it would be correct to say that it's simply a preferred method of picking gears. But it isn't just a different method of picking gears. The clutch isn't just a "press this to move the stick" lever, like the button on an automatic gear selector. It offers a whole other layer of control. As someone interested in taking advantage of that extra control, manual is objectively superior. You can't deny it. You can only say that the extra control isn't important to you.My only point with the antiquated technology is that manuals have been replaced with something superior and new things should move forward with new technology. You might prefer the old methods or even if you think it's better, and once again that's your choice and I don't think anyone can really fault you for thinking it's better. I just think people should recognize that a manual isn't the most ideal application for the given task currently (ie changing a gear) and there are technologically superior methods of doing it, which will only continue to get better with time.
This is not true, unless you're only using antiquated to mean "old". Yeah, manual is an older technology than DCT, but DCT is not strictly superior to a manual. See low speed issues.
This is a good point. A PS3 (or modern computer) IS strictly superior to an SNES. A modern computer can emulate an SNES as well as do many other things besides. It's an SNES plus more, so what's not to like?
The clutch. The whole point is the clutch. For those of us who derive objective utility and value from that control, the DCT will never replace manuals because the whole point of DCT is to eliminate the manual clutch. That's why we won't be convinced to accept DCT as the future; it's why we're so stubborn about it. You're asking us to abandon the very foundation of why we drive what we drive.
If a manual clutch offered literally nothing unique over driving a DCT, then it would be correct to say that it's simply a preferred method of picking gears. But it isn't just a different method of picking gears. The clutch isn't just a "press this to move the stick" lever, like the button on an automatic gear selector. It offers a whole other layer of control. As someone interested in taking advantage of that extra control, manual is objectively superior. You can't deny it. You can only say that the extra control isn't important to you.
DCT isn't a replacement for manual. It's an alternative.
A sequential setup like that still has a clutch, so they can still clutch kick.
That's all I'm saying when I say antiquated. The manual is old and outdated, it doesn't mean that there still aren't some merits to it but to say it's technologically superior to a DCT just isn't true.
And like a modern computer, a DCT can emulate a manual, although like with emulation on a computer it's not the same as the original. When you emulate an SNES game on a computer you don't always have the same controller, you sometimes can't save your games right, and sometimes the graphics aren't quite as good.
This is my point. DCT's are the superior piece of technology and that's what should be in new vehicles coming out, but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for manuals in vehicles that are older (even a few years older). With technology changes you're always going to give up something but that shouldn't prevent the industry from moving forward.
Just recognize that it's a superior (or say more advanced if you prefer) piece of technology and that you prefer the older (or simpler) way of doing something because it offers you something you feel is important, whether that be the clutch or just driving enjoyment.
I'm with you, except for the outdated part. There are things a manual can do that a DCT cannot, and as such it is absolutely not outdated.
And like a modern computer, a DCT can emulate a manual, although like with emulation on a computer it's not the same as the original. When you emulate an SNES game on a computer you don't always have the same controller, you sometimes can't save your games right, and sometimes the graphics aren't quite as good.
Can you elaborate on what it's like to have a sequential dogbox like yours in a street car?
Pull it back to upshift, push forward to downshift.
where god intended it
Forward to downshift, back to upshift is just the proper layout. Many many automatics (including one I own) have the manual mode with back to downshift, forward to upshift, which is just wrong.
OhhYeah, it does feel weirdly natural that way. You know I wasn't talking about an auto though, right?
I've pondered it a bit. I think it comes from the fact that in each straight portion of the H you're pulling back to upshift and pushing up to downshift. Obviously there are plenty of shifts that go the other way (2nd to 3rd, 5th to 4th), but for some reason those aren't the default in my brain - so when it's just forward or backward, I emulate a straight shift on an H pattern.
For me, nothing will ever replace this
I enjoy manual so much, I would feel at lost without it.
I do.
I've pondered it a bit. I think it comes from the fact that in each straight portion of the H you're pulling back to upshift and pushing up to downshift. Obviously there are plenty of shifts that go the other way (2nd to 3rd, 5th to 4th), but for some reason those aren't the default in my brain - so when it's just forward or backward, I emulate a straight shift on an H pattern.