SCHUMACHER will (not) drive Massa's car at Valencia!!!

[Hun200kmh]

I'm not interested in Schumacher vs. Hamilton or Alonso.

What I'm interested in is:

Schumacher vs. Kimi - both WDC winners, both driving for Ferrari, no team orders.

and

Schumacher vs. Vettel - Two generations of Germany's finest.

 

[mustang245]

Schumacher is in his own special league. I expect nothing of him. Just seeing a great warrior do battle a few more times, priceless. I just hope he brings his 'crown'; you know, the red one... with 7 stars. How I hate/ love that magnificent SOB!

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I'm not interested in Schumacher vs. Hamilton or Alonso.

What I'm interested in is:
Schumacher vs. Kimi - both WDC winners, both driving for Ferrari, no team orders.

and

Schumacher vs. Vettel - Two generations of Germany's finest.

Pretty much

It should be interesting to see if Raikkonen can keep his hand off of the snooze button.

 

[LancerEvo7]

I really don't care about Schumacher vs. insert random driver here. I'm interested to see him back in an F1 car, something I've never seen before (I started following F1 in '07) and something we'll probably never see again.

Although I do kinda want him to win one last race.

 

[Mr P]

Hamilton and Button look forward to sharing the track with Schumy which is a good thing...

http://aol.autosport.com/report.html/id/77435

Wondering how the hell we can wait another 3 weeks for this to happen ... I hate the long breaks in F1 boo!!

 

[Ardius]

Now that's totally unfair.

By my count, only three of those championships were won with team orders...

That said... Schumi was a brilliant driver in his day... whether or not he was an arrogant, cheating arse doesn't change that fact.

My main worry is that he will underperform... Ferrari needs points... badly... to salvage what is left of this season for themselves.

But all seasons he competed in were with preferrential treatment
I recall Herbert and Irvine getting sick of it once upon a time.

I agree though, you only have to look as far as the 1994 Spanish Grand Prix to see his talent. Its just a shame he chooses to cloud it all with team orders and cheating.

 

[Boundary Layer]

I understand the complaints about Schumi's sometimes questionable ethics, infact I agree with them. I still haven't fully forgiven him for the collision with Villeneuve in the 97 European GP.

But why the fuss over team orders? That's just a part of F1.
Teams, if there is enough pressure from the rest of the grid, naturally should want to get the best equipment and choose the optimum strategy for the driver most likely to make the most of it. And it doesn't make sense to keep a driver bottled up and and lapping well below his potential when all it takes to remove the roadblock is a quick word on the radio. Get the fast one up the road and remove any risk of having both your drivers jumped in the pits by someone fueled farther.
If it came down to it at season end, where the winning constructor missed taking the drivers championship as well by something like 1 or 2 points because they were too proud to use team orders to move their number 1 past his out-of-contention team mate, how stupid would they look to their sponsors, or the larger F1 community?

There is still some negativity out there with regards to Hakkinen's championship in 98 and the role team orders had in it, but nowhere near what I see directed towards Schumi. In my opinion Hakkinen/McLaren is just as deserving if not more deserving of the same sort of criticism, but somehow this is forgotten whenever I see his career being reflected on... I don't get it.

If I were to go out on a bit of a limb, I'd say the last to win the drivers championship and beat his team mate squarely in the process was Damon Hill in 96 - and that is only because the rest of the grid was so woefully unreliable that Williams could afford to let his drivers race. I think they had the constructors championship clinched by maybe 11th or 12th rd, but it was totally clear by the 5th round that they weren't going to be touched.

 

[niky]

But all seasons he competed in were with preferrential treatment
I recall Herbert and Irvine getting sick of it once upon a time.

I agree though, you only have to look as far as the 1994 Spanish Grand Prix to see his talent. Its just a shame he chooses to cloud it all with team orders and cheating.

Preferential treatment is usually based on the "A" driver's chance of winning the whole banana.

Mclaren have publicly shunned the "A" driver route in recent years, and when they had two drivers of arguably similar talent, look where that led them...

Of course, as Schumi's career went on and on... the case for preferential treatment for political reasons rather than for reasons of him being faster became more and more apparent.

RBR are definitely going to have to figure out which driver is going to be driver "A" for the next half of the season if they're to have any hope of claiming victory. At this point, with the scramble for points amongst newly reinvigorated teams, Jenson just needs to score points in as many races as possible to claim his championship.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Team orders applying between equal teammates who fight it out for the championship is one thing. One of them gets an advantage as the season progresses therefore the team throws its weight behind that driver. Both drivers had the opportunity to challenge though so it is not an issue.

Schumacher insisted on number one status in the team and that his teammate was contractually obliged not to race him. in seasons where Ferrari had the best car, that led to a walk over for the championship which is not sport.

 

[-Fred-]

But why the fuss over team orders?

Let me just say: Austrian GP, 2002.

I don't mind team orders. Just don't make it blatantly obvious and insult the spectators who paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars to witness the greatest drivers in the world in the most technologically advanced racecars... and instead show up to see one of the greatest farce in motorsport history. See also Indy with the "payback" finish, same year I believe.


All I see in there, is, sadly, another way for the FIA to get ratings and get more money in their pockets. Valencia was a total snooze fest last year, so what better way for to get a few more million people to watch what will most likely still be a boring race... Wouldn't be surprised if Max and Bernie had a word with Schumachin, seeing how he wasn't interested the day before.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Wouldn't be surprised if Max and Bernie had a word with Schumachin, seeing how he wasn't interested the day before.

holy biased batman. let me just digest your post for a bit...

btw schumuacher always stated he was interested, it was HIS manager willi weber who stated he wouldnt be driving the day before.....

 

[Masi_23]

Yes indeed, his manager did. His reason being is high expectations from everyone. Personally, i dont think Schumi will be at all rusty. Great ones do great things under pressure ;] Hmmm... now what if Schumacher wins in Valencia? Basing on how Brawn has fallen off pace after dominating the first 7 races, i wouldn't be surprise.

 

[Ardius]

I understand the complaints about Schumi's sometimes questionable ethics, infact I agree with them. I still haven't fully forgiven him for the collision with Villeneuve in the 97 European GP.

But why the fuss over team orders? That's just a part of F1.
Teams, if there is enough pressure from the rest of the grid, naturally should want to get the best equipment and choose the optimum strategy for the driver most likely to make the most of it. And it doesn't make sense to keep a driver bottled up and and lapping well below his potential when all it takes to remove the roadblock is a quick word on the radio. Get the fast one up the road and remove any risk of having both your drivers jumped in the pits by someone fueled farther.
If it came down to it at season end, where the winning constructor missed taking the drivers championship as well by something like 1 or 2 points because they were too proud to use team orders to move their number 1 past his out-of-contention team mate, how stupid would they look to their sponsors, or the larger F1 community?

There is still some negativity out there with regards to Hakkinen's championship in 98 and the role team orders had in it, but nowhere near what I see directed towards Schumi. In my opinion Hakkinen/McLaren is just as deserving if not more deserving of the same sort of criticism, but somehow this is forgotten whenever I see his career being reflected on... I don't get it.

If I were to go out on a bit of a limb, I'd say the last to win the drivers championship and beat his team mate squarely in the process was Damon Hill in 96 - and that is only because the rest of the grid was so woefully unreliable that Williams could afford to let his drivers race. I think they had the constructors championship clinched by maybe 11th or 12th rd, but it was totally clear by the 5th round that they weren't going to be touched.

I'm obviously not bothered about team orders themselves as they have always been a part of motorsport. I am however bothered about teams deciding that even though they are not even fighting for the championship yet, they feel they need to order one driver to lose on purpose (Austria 2002).
At least with examples like Belgium 1998 they were ensuring they would finish 1-2 rather than being in dominant cars and making sure one person won despite not even being at a critical stage of a championship.

I do believe that Raikkonen won his championship with little/no team orders and Alonso was simply faster than Fisichella from the start. Hill's championship was indeed the last one with teammates of somewhat equal skills (though nowadays I rate Massa equal to or above Kimi).

Preferential treatment is usually based on the "A" driver's chance of winning the whole banana.

Mclaren have publicly shunned the "A" driver route in recent years, and when they had two drivers of arguably similar talent, look where that led them...

Of course, as Schumi's career went on and on... the case for preferential treatment for political reasons rather than for reasons of him being faster became more and more apparent.

RBR are definitely going to have to figure out which driver is going to be driver "A" for the next half of the season if they're to have any hope of claiming victory. At this point, with the scramble for points amongst newly reinvigorated teams, Jenson just needs to score points in as many races as possible to claim his championship.

Yes it secured McLaren the constructors championship and almost the drivers championship, its just they also had a spy scandal

As a team, you want 2 dominating drivers, it means you secure almost all the wins and the constructors is easy. The only danger is allowing other drivers to catch up in points. But it worked with Hamilton and Alonso and it worked with Senna and Prost.
If you go for the number 1 and number 2 driver pairing, ok, so you have better chances of a drivers championship for 1 driver but it overall makes your team weaker in the long run. Look at Renault or current McLaren. 1 driver scoring points, the other lagging behind. When your number 1 driver is out of the race or out of points, the number 2 driver may not be good enough to stop number 1's rivals from scoring.

I'm not really bothered by number 1 and 2 teams, but I am bothered that Schumacher had contracts defining him as the dominant driver and taking fake race wins.

In my opinion, Red Bull are doing fine with no preferrences, they are catching Brawn and putting on a spectacular show. Ok, so if Jenson manages to win some more races, they will find it harder but overall I think the chances for 2 drivers to win are better than 1 .
And besides, who would you pick? Its too close to choose and you don't want to ruin the drivers relationship with the team.

 

[GTP_Ingram]

I do believe that Raikkonen won his championship with little/no team orders and Alonso was simply faster than Fisichella from the start. Hill's championship was indeed the last one with teammates of somewhat equal skills (though nowadays I rate Massa equal to or above Kimi).

I would agree with the Damon Hill statement. As for Massa, while he has improved hugely, I also think it is partly down to the fact that Kimi cant really be bothered anymore. It's as if he feels he has proved his ability after his title, and now he performs when he feels like it. Case in point: last year, Massa was the higher scoring Ferrari driver, but Raikkonen set 12 fastest laps, normally near the end of the race, as if to say 'yeah i could have set this pace all race if i'd wanted, but I'm not going to win the title anyway.' Hopefully Schumi's return will give Kimi some motivation to pull his finger out, and we can see him back to his brilliant and exciting best again.

 

[mipuumal]

I'm not really bothered by number 1 and 2 teams, but I am bothered that Schumacher had contracts defining him as the dominant driver and taking fake race wins.

Prost had a similar contract for Williams in 1993, he even had the power to approve his teammate which is why Williams couldn't sign Senna in 1993.

I'm sure there have been other similar contracts in the past, so Schumacher wasn't the only one to get this treatment.

 

[Roo]

Schumacher testing old F1 car at Mugello

By Pablo Elizalde Friday, July 31st 2009, 10:38 GMT

Michael Schumacher has began his preparation to return to Formula 1 action at the European Grand Prix next month.

The seven-time world champion will replace Felipe Massa in the Valencia race as the Brazilian continues with his recovery following the accident he suffered at the Hungarian Grand Prix last weekend.

Schumacher travelled to Ferrari's factory in Maranello yesterday, where he worked at the static simulator to check the functionality of the steering wheel.

The German has borrowed an F2007 car and he is reported to be testing at the Mugello circuit today since 11am.

Schumacher admitted that he is trying to get as much mileage as possible before his return, even if it means driving old cars.

"There is this test ban in Formula 1, therefore I contacted some of the guys from F1 Clienti if they could give me a car," Schumacher wrote on his website.

"Although those cars are not current or last year's ones, I simply like to drive as much as possible, so this is a good option. The next weeks will be totally on preparation then."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77445

So yes, he can drive an F1 car for a bit before he races.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Cant they give MS last years F1 to try? at least he can "test" an F1 sorta car again, i know its not the same one but its gotta be better than nothing.

oh yeah... I was sure they could arrange something like this.

Its not the same car per se.. but its similar enough to make the transition far far easier than with no seat time.

 

[livemusic]

I wonder if some guys from F1 Clienti would give me a car to practice too...

 

[bicycleshorts]

Schumacher travelled to Ferrari's factory in Maranello yesterday, where he worked at the static simulator to check the functionality of the steering wheel.

GT5p?

 

[Ardius]

I would agree with the Damon Hill statement. As for Massa, while he has improved hugely, I also think it is partly down to the fact that Kimi cant really be bothered anymore. It's as if he feels he has proved his ability after his title, and now he performs when he feels like it. Case in point: last year, Massa was the higher scoring Ferrari driver, but Raikkonen set 12 fastest laps, normally near the end of the race, as if to say 'yeah i could have set this pace all race if i'd wanted, but I'm not going to win the title anyway.' Hopefully Schumi's return will give Kimi some motivation to pull his finger out, and we can see him back to his brilliant and exciting best again.

Motivation and race skills are as much a part of a driver's overall profile as fastest lap records
Massa has Raikkonen beat hands down on race day, and thats what counts in the end.

There's not much use in a driver who can only set fastest laps but has rubbish race craft. Fastest laps are a rather pointless statistic anyway - seeing as the drivers at the front rarely need to push hard and so more often than not drivers in the middle of the pack on low fuel will be setting the new fastest laps as they attempt to catch their rivals. Drivers at the front regularly cruise to save their tyres although this was more a problem back in the 80s, its still a relatively pointless statistic.
It says to me that Kimi spent most of his time being faster than the cars in front but could never put the car ahead into corners. I'm surprised he hasn't had more points finishes from leapfrogging people in the pits, it seems Massa is the one who does this more often.

Prost had a similar contract for Williams in 1993, he even had the power to approve his teammate which is why Williams couldn't sign Senna in 1993.

I'm sure there have been other similar contracts in the past, so Schumacher wasn't the only one to get this treatment.

Yeah but Prost didn't take many wins in the same fashion as Austria 2002. Thats the sticking point.

 

[GTP_Ingram]

I agree wit all of your arguements Ardius, it is just that i feel that if Kimi could be arsed, he could have the better of Massa. He dosen't have the comittment of his McLaren days, I remember him driving through a cloud of engine smoke at the top of Eau Rouge flat out on a hot lap and thinking to myself 'this guy has balls.' He has rarely shown similar commitment sincce, with the exception of that battle at Spa with Hamilton last year. I know that fastest laps are pretty much meaningless, but my point is the fact that he got so many in a single season suggests he can be as fast, if not faster, than anybody on his day.

He really should be more motivated though, the highest paid driver in F1 should have everthing, and he doesn't. Alonso and Hamilton are much more rounded drivers, as they seem to eek the most out of their cars even when they barely had a hope of getting any points.

 

[Ardius]

Oh yes, I think Kimi has the ability to beat Massa but because he doesn't have the motivation I don't rate him as good as Massa anymore - what's the good of a driver who can't be bothered? At least Felipe has the interest to go with ability.

 

[holl01]

Webber vs Shumacer is what I will hope to see, Webber is clearly the fastest driver currently, and I believe he will win the championship. Fastest in Q2 in Hungary and claimed the fastest lap by 5 tenths, he is on a mission at the moment

 

[Stevisiov]

Webber vs Shumacer is what I will hope to see, Webber is clearly the fastest driver currently, and I believe he will win the championship. Fastest in Q2 in Hungary and claimed the fastest lap by 5 tenths, he is on a mission at the moment

I think you need to take your webber goggles of for a second, sure he's certainly looking one of the fastest at the moment, but saying he's the fastest with only one race win and generally out qualified by his team mate sounds a bit naive to me.

 

[livemusic]

Webber vs Shumacer is what I will hope to see, Webber is clearly the fastest driver currently, and I believe he will win the championship. Fastest in Q2 in Hungary and claimed the fastest lap by 5 tenths, he is on a mission at the moment

Clearly.


By the way, FOTA allowed Schumi to test with the F60. He still needs allowance from Williams and Force India though.

 

[PeterJB]

Why would he need to drive their cars?

 

[Stevisiov]

Why would he need to drive their cars?

I hope that's a joke.

 

[holl01]

I think you need to take your webber goggles of for a second, sure he's certainly looking one of the fastest at the moment, but saying he's the fastest with only one race win and generally out qualified by his team mate sounds a bit naive to me.

I think you need to look at the facts, 4 podiums in a row, yeah thats all I have.

Webber has had a few hiccups in qualifying, some through his fault, others through blocking infringments, but all in all, he has showed/proven to be in my opinion the quickest driver, Q2 in particular, and is finally converting it into solid results come race day. I will laugh at your avatar when Webber clinches the championship.

 

[Ardius]

Although getting a little off topic, Webber has the benefit of experience over Vettel as well as being fast. But his team is rather unreliable on strategy and I'm not so sure he can win the title over Button in the end. Time will tell, but if McLaren, Ferrari and Williams have all caught up, I definitely rate Schumacher, Hamilton and Rosberg higher than Webber (despite Webber beating Rosberg when they were teammates, I think Rosberg has more speed).
Vettel is certainly not a spent force either, and is easily Webber's most challenging teammate so far.

And what's funny about his avatar?

 

[NapoleonMikey]

I think you need to look at the facts, 4 podiums in a row, yeah thats all I have.

Webber has had a few hiccups in qualifying, some through his fault, others through blocking infringments, but all in all, he has showed/proven to be in my opinion the quickest driver, Q2 in particular, and is finally converting it into solid results come race day. I will laugh at your avatar when Webber clinches the championship.

that part is confusing to me. whats so funny about stevisiov's avy? it looks like just a pit lane image. now if you meant PeterJB's avy then that is much more logical. but looking at the season standings i do agree that webber is faster then vettle not by much but he is faster.