Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)
- Thread starter Azuremen
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Dat wheel gap though...
The Vanishing Boy
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-> The color matches with those miscellaneous warning stickers dashed all over that BRZ.
CodeRedR51
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That's a price hike.
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- bramturismo
Oh man, it looks gorgeous in yellow... 
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I know they're for different crowds and different purposes.. But how can you justify buying this instead of Boostang?
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Dan
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Because 750lbs is a lot of extra weight for an extra 100hp.
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Different driving experiences too. Not driven an Ecoboost 'Stang yet but compared with the GT the character of each is completely different.
The Mustang is reasonably quick, sounds great, mega comfy, and feels a bit silly (in a good way). The Toyobaru on the other hand doesn't sound that great and needs working really hard before you're motoring, but it also feels every single one of its fewer kilograms in every single aspect of how it reacts and feeds back. Sharper throttle, better brake response and feel, quicker and more communicative steering, snappier gearshift, less inertia to every movement.
Of all the cars I've driven so far this year the Mustang has been one of my favourites, but the amusement value comes from the way it looks and sounds more than the way it drives. As a good old-fashioned sports car experience the Toyobaru pair is still the more satisfying.
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To each his own, I guess. I think the engine sounds great. It sounds a whole lot more natural than those fake engines of these days that for some reason have to fart whenever you downshift. Personally I think it sounds ridiculous for an engine to fart that loudly on a normal downshift in every day traffic. Makes you look like a complete knob, and you probably are if you drive a Golf R. (No disrespect to Golf R owners, but we all know what a typical Golf R driver looks like...) Or it's only in my country where Golf GTI's and R's are owned by these kind of people.
I just love how the GT86 sort of blends in. It drives just as easy as a family saloon, it's quiet (unless on the highway at which point it becomes irritating), it's comfortable, and it's not such a brash car like an Audi S-car or a Golf GTI. Personally I don't know why these cars have to be styled so overly aggressive, it's just way over the top these days. This is why I love the S2000, MX-5, RX-8, GT86. To me these cars are the definition of a sportscar. Poke it with a stick, and it'll fling its tail, but overall it's such a well behaved vehicle.
And after having owned one for a year soon, I seem to get the impression people appreciate the GT86. They have no idea what it is, what manufacturer or what model it is. But I definitely feel like the GT86 is a cool car. When the sun is out, it gets a ton of looks and attention. But otherwise it doesn't really stand out of the crowd, it's not loud and nor does the styling scream for attention. It kind of hides behind the ever in dimensions growing saloon.
As for power, it depends where you use the car. On the track, yes, it lacks severely. But then I don't think this is the car to take to a track, not if you are aiming for outright speed. I that case I think the perfect GT86 would have 250hp, an extra 50% torque, and grippier tyres. In other words, a cheaper, more luxurious, and daily driveable version to the 4C.
Would I change anything about it when I'm driving through the countryside? Hell no. A bit more torque at best, but apart from that the car is perfect in terms of driving attitude. I just love every second I spend in this car.
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It's o-kay, but it's not quite a 5-litre V8 is more what I was getting at...
Actually, I'd say totally the opposite. On the track you can keep the revs high and actually stir it along pretty quickly, and you never encounter the flat-spot it has in the mid-range since you're always above that crank speed.
On the road, where most people don't drive at track speeds, is where you notice the slightly iffy throttle mapping and the flat spot, and a slight dearth of torque. The less powerful engine in an ND MX-5 is more enthusiastic more of the time and feels the quicker car on the road.
But don't get the wrong end of the stick from what I wrote before - my point was that actually, the GT86/BRZ is a better sports car than the Mustang because it involves the driver more (it's a better sports car than the ND too, thanks to its steering and body control).
Incidentally, it'd take quite a few changes for the car to be anything like a 4C and not all of them would be positive! It'd have to offer considerably worse directional stability and a slightly unpredictable power delivery for a start...
CodeRedR51
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Let's not forget the 370Z here. Long in the tooth, sure. But it's still relevant for the price.
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The 370Z shows just how much fun a little extra power can be. Big fan of the Nismo versions, but those are a fair chunk more expensive.
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In all honesty, I do love the sound of the Mustang's 5.0, it's one of my favorite V8 sounds aside from the GT350's flat plane crank. If I could have all the brutal sounds and push of that V8 without sacrificing on the sports car feel I would in a heartbeat, as much as I love a flat engine.
But one thing that does help the BRZ by miles is a decent axle back exhaust to get rid of the extremely heavy muffler that all but mutes the exhaust(seriously, it sounds about as exciting as a base Honda Fit from the outside as stock), and plugging the "sound tube" from within the cabin. The engine noise itself isn't ideal, and plugging that tube helps make it much more liveable on the highways, plus the exhaust is pretty quiet from within the cabin at cruising RPMs, but sings when you get into the throttle.
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The Mustang is handier on the track than it's ever been, and refinement is excellent compared to something like an 86... but it's still a rather blunt weapon to be punting around. Point it. Squeeze the throttle. Hang on, by Jesus. Slam on the brakes. Turn. Repeat. Not driven the 350 or the EcoBoost, though. I do love the Stang, but it's not what I'd pick if I were going hooning down my favorite mountain.
A car like the 86 or MX-5 is more delicate... with more shades of gray in the way it oversteers or understeers or simply steers. You can approach a corner several different ways with these cars and learn something new, each time.
As with @homeforsummer , I dislike the power delivery of the 86... and further, I dislike that slightly nose-heavy feeling versus the MX-5... I do like the steering of the Toyota better, oddly, and there's no doubt the standard suspension is more steady... but the MX-5 is just so inertia-free and entertaining. Sort of like an Elise... only not as stiff... not as spartan... not as powerful... and nowhere near as expensive. (Drove an Exige once at the track. Stellar steering and a very predictable chassis... but by Gods, you'd tire of it in seconds in daily traffic...)
A car like the 86 or MX-5 is more delicate... with more shades of gray in the way it oversteers or understeers or simply steers. You can approach a corner several different ways with these cars and learn something new, each time.
As with @homeforsummer , I dislike the power delivery of the 86... and further, I dislike that slightly nose-heavy feeling versus the MX-5... I do like the steering of the Toyota better, oddly, and there's no doubt the standard suspension is more steady... but the MX-5 is just so inertia-free and entertaining. Sort of like an Elise... only not as stiff... not as spartan... not as powerful... and nowhere near as expensive. (Drove an Exige once at the track. Stellar steering and a very predictable chassis... but by Gods, you'd tire of it in seconds in daily traffic...)
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Not yet driven a GT86 on track but the above is one thing I do love about the MX-5. You can drive it pretty hard and it never feels like it's going to snap because it never feels like there's any weight to create any big inertial moments.
It's mainly on turn-in that I wish the Mazda was a bit firmer, as the combination of lack of feel from the steering just off the straight ahead, and the way it rolls, means there's a period of guesswork for those few moments after you first make a steering input. Once it's settled into a corner and you can get back on the power it's great. Pretty good on the brakes too since it's quite light.
Not driven an Elise on track yet, but spent a few hours on the road in one. I didn't think it'd be too bad to live with, but then I suspect traffic around where I live isn't so bad compared to where you are! Was also influenced by me then spending the two-hour return journey in our Caterham, which was pretty awful in comparison. The Elise feels like a luxury car when the alternative is a loud, vibrating cigar of metal with too much power.
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Did an Exige V6 for a bit, which is an awesome hunk of aluminum... and while it was thrilling when the roads were thrilling, the horrible ingress/egress and the Chinese-level switchgear and interior were a big turn-off. The lack of power steering and visibility when trying to park it between a Ferrari and an Aston was kind of worrying. Trying not scratching a Ferrari when clambering out of an Exige resulted in an embarrassing crawl along the ground between the two!
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Slightly more on topic, that's one issue with the 86, as well... getting in and out is a pain. A pain I don't recall having in the MX-5... but then again, I'm only five-foot-five.
Yeah, the MX-5 has bugger-all feel when you're not pushing hard. Which is disappointing after the way they fixed the steering on the NC2 (which is probably the MX-5 I'd buy if I wanted a track car).
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In all honesty, I didn't like my GT86 very much when driving through Germany. It revs out nicely in 5th hitting 215kph, but once in 6th it just dies suddenly, there's no power at all.
Then there are the skinny tyres on it that don't really feel steady at all at these high speeds. Maybe I was just being paranoid, and I have a lot of confidence in the car itself. But for the life of me I cannot have any confidence in the Prius tyres.
Then there's the bad finish on the way the windows close. They lower and go up automatically when you open the door, but it seems to me they don't all close properly, because at 160kph and above the cabin is loud. At 200kph the wind noise is very uncomfortable, and the bonnet acts as if it's about to come off.
No, I don't really like it at high speeds. Take it on twisty roads, and you'll never grow tired of it.
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Yeah, 6th gear is long, but without that it'd be even more brutal on longer drives. It's still got plenty of pep for me in the off chance I do have enough room to run through the gears, but I've had a tune on it that fills in that torque dip nicely, so I don't really remember pushing it that hard all the way to 6th before then. Also, wider and better tires was the first thing I ever did for this car because I daily drive it, and those Prius tires were a nightmare in the rain, considering the cars already pretty light.
And so far I've never had a problem with the windows or the wind noise in the cabin aside from what's expected from a car with relatively minimal sound deadening. I've driven the thing on couple hundred mile trips a few times now, and I don't hear much wind noise at all(went [normal highway speeds] on some clear sections several times and it got louder, but not by much). The road noise is crazy, but nothing that can't be drowned out with some good road trip tunes on a reasonable volume, even with the car's sort of "eh" audio system(new speakers are my next buy, since they seem to be the weak point) it's pretty livable to me. I've driven my buddies Fusion and that thing was damn near silent, which bothered me even more than the noise, so I guess that's just preference.
Also the hood lift is annoying, but it's that way with a lot of cars that have lightweight hoods. That's something that can be fixed with hood-pins, which there are a few relatively discrete options for the car, but it's not as bad a thing as it appears.
All in all, it's a car that had to make a lot of sacrifices in terms of trim to be what it is at the price that is. It's all a matter of whether you value comfort and livability over light weight and balance.
CodeRedR51
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All they need to do to get an increase in sales is to add supercharger for the Toyota and a turbo for the Subaru version. How hard can that be? Sure, there would be price bump but atleast it would be better justified than the 5hp/5nm tweak they just had..
