Setup tweaking destroy physicsF1 2010-2016

[Mr. S]

A racing simulation game will always simulate everything up to a certain point: when it's not fun anymore. Almost nobody would play a game for the sake of the simulation, without having fun.

 

[DanRicciardo]

You are the biggest idiot known to man. People like you are ruining F1 2011 online. CM has already been notified about the issue and they're working on fixing it this second, what we don't need is idiots like you posting this everywhere so that online turns into a cheatfest. It's bad enough as it is with the rammers, but now there is no skill involved with this setup. Don't post this anywhere else, don't tell anymore of your friends, don't tell anyone actually. If word gets around, time trials will be ruined also, we'll never beat the best times ever again, and if the times get reset, then everyone with a legit time will be angry.

 

[Olvi]

I think F1 2010 already had the same thing. Tried some setups from racedepartment and it took 2-3 seconds off lap times every track, but atleast the car wasnt glued to the track

Please type something to my topic on cm-forums

http://community.codemasters.com/fo...403/472535-f1-2011-suggestion-setup-lock.html

 

[JJ72]

I love how people pretend that a real F1 sim would actually be drivable by mortals. I seem to recall a feature on the BBC coverage a couple of races ago where they stuck Coulthard, Christian Horner and Jake in the Red Bull sim rig. It's probably a fair assumption that the RB rig will be basically state of the art, the best sim that is technically possible today.

Jake couldn't drive it to save himself.

I'm not knocking his skills, that would probably be the result were most normal people to try and drive the thing. It's just way beyond our ability, and it's not even the slightest bit fun. No doubt there's a market out there for a serious SERIOUS sim like that, but I bet you it's bloody small.

Given this, it's obvious that any F1 game is going to have to be dumbed down at least some amount in order to be accessible. In my opinion, CM did a good job of striking a balance between drivability and the characteristics that make F1 cars unique. You can feel the downforce, the temperature and wear of the tyres, the edginess, the throttle control needed. It simulates the parts of the experience that people want to enjoy at a level that they can deal with them.

No, it's not full sim. But nothing is, really.

An F1 car, given the downforce and traction level is mostly correct in the game, shouldn't require god like ability to drive.

I have driven single seaters in anger, although very low tier one like Formula Renaults, the main difference between real life and a sim is the assault of sensations that distracts you from concentrating on the actua driving, then it's the fact of physical abilities.

The act of driving a racing car itself isn't in nature difficult, compare the amount of grip vs horsepower the traction you have in an F1 car isn't too different from a caterham on road legal tires. It only becomes difficult when you get to the last 5% of performance envelope or when the physical force outraces your body and mind speed.

To drive a Formula 1 car at a leisurely pace (say 3 second off pace) without the physical demands doesn't require immortality, it does take someone with track experience and a careful pair of feet.

 

[tribolik]

Because newspapers are the go to place for games and simulators, and everything in general! Newspapers are very reliable sources of information!


I'm not sure how cutting corners has anything to do with gaining time from a setup? I can cut corners and gain a few seconds without touching the car settings, where is the connection? iRacing claim to be the top racing sim game, their Formula 1 car drives like a slightly more punishing and over sensitive version of F1 2011. Personally I think that F1 2011 got the handling model pretty nailed for a game, while toning it back enough so that non hardcore sim racers can play it. I honestly think they did a fantastic job of this F1 racing game, if you want a simulator then you should know better than to buy a mass market codemasters game.

I just keep «pushing the same button» because Im amazed that people freak out with the setup issue making you gain about 3 or 4 seconds (maybe 1 second more than it should no big deal) and no one seems to care about the lack of a proper penalty system (from what I saw in this video) that allows you to gain 2 to 3 seconds each lap...

 

[paulpg87]

yes it give you extra speed but if you do long races with that setup tyres get destroyed fastly.

 

[Green]

I love how people pretend that a real F1 sim would actually be drivable by mortals. I seem to recall a feature on the BBC coverage a couple of races ago where they stuck Coulthard, Christian Horner and Jake in the Red Bull sim rig. It's probably a fair assumption that the RB rig will be basically state of the art, the best sim that is technically possible today.

Jake couldn't drive it to save himself.

I'm not knocking his skills, that would probably be the result were most normal people to try and drive the thing. It's just way beyond our ability, and it's not even the slightest bit fun. No doubt there's a market out there for a serious SERIOUS sim like that, but I bet you it's bloody small.

Given this, it's obvious that any F1 game is going to have to be dumbed down at least some amount in order to be accessible. In my opinion, CM did a good job of striking a balance between drivability and the characteristics that make F1 cars unique. You can feel the downforce, the temperature and wear of the tyres, the edginess, the throttle control needed. It simulates the parts of the experience that people want to enjoy at a level that they can deal with them.

No, it's not full sim. But nothing is, really.

LOL what are you talking about F1 drivers aren't Gods they don't have crazy superpowers to help them drive theses cars. Most people could drive these cars with the right kind training even that jake guy could get round monza. (Don't get me wrong this would be alot of training and practice) Also I seen Jake driving F12010 against hamilton and his brother needless to say he's rubbish at that too does that mean that would be the result of most normal people.

Anyway I'm not talking about building a red bull sim in my living room, I just think that if codemaster spent all year in F1 collecting data then the setups should reflect real life and the times that are possible should be really close to this years times in F1.

 

[Bigbazz]

One thing you should not do is compare the hopeless jake humphries with your average racing enthusiast or sim racer. You damn well better believe that these non mortal talented sim racers can drive a F1 car.

What will happen is.

1. They will be too physically challenged to last long in the car, for the majority.
2. They will obviously be a lot slower than an F1 driver due to the above reasons and lack of experience.


But don't go pretending that just because some clumsy tv presenters with absolutely no clue can't drive it that some young determined enthusiast is going to be the same. I'm not saying that we can all go around driving F1 cars, but I am saying that those guys driving those cars are just like you and me, humans. I can guarentee you that the fastest guys on GT5 here on GT Planet, and the fastest guys in F1 2011 and the fastest guys in any sim, you put them in the Red Bull F1 simulator and sure they will probably crash a few times, but give them the chance and they will be just as fast in that simulator.


And you better believe that with my previous karting experience, and the ammount of time I spend playing sims, I damn well think I could apply myself to properly drive an F1 car. I definitely won't be pulling anywhere near fast laptimes, nor 30lap sessions, but I'm absolutely sure that I could pull off a few decent laps without ******** my pants, I recon i'd give Tom Cruise (who recently drove one) a run for his money, and I bet there are some guys on these forums that given the chances in life could have been great race drivers. Its all in the mentality.

 

[Green]

^ agree

 

[mu22stang]

Setup bug aside, the fact that the lap times on the game aren't true to reality means nothing. It isn't reality. Let's look at the track simulation by itself...

This isn't the typical "it's a video game argument" we are so used to hearing. It's much more primitive. If this video game simulates the RB7, for instance, 100% correct and there is just ONE FLAW in the simulation of a track, the lap times will differ from reality.

To illustrate my point, let's imagine that the Melboune circuit was replicated in another city (we're talking planet earth here, not the simulation world). Engineers could measure every last bump, surface variation, curb and wall in an attempt to create a carbon copy at this new location. The chances of the lap times being identical or near exactly similar are slim, but possible.

Now, what if this Melbourne copy track had 15' added to the main straight? What if Turn 1 had a radius 1' less? What if the entire track surface was homogeneous throughout the entire circuit? What if the track was enclosed and wind wasn't a factor? What if the track temperature was the same throughout the entire length? What would happen to the lap times?

Now, what if this track wasn't replicated on planet earth and it was actually replicated in virtual reality? All the flaws of trying to replicate reality would combine, leaving a realistic, but not necessarily real, experience. Congratulations! You just discovered that video games aren't real.

 

[tribolik]

One thing you should not do is compare the hopeless jake humphries with your average racing enthusiast or sim racer. You damn well better believe that these non mortal talented sim racers can drive a F1 car.

What will happen is.

1. They will be too physically challenged to last long in the car, for the majority.
2. They will obviously be a lot slower than an F1 driver due to the above reasons and lack of experience.


But don't go pretending that just because some clumsy tv presenters with absolutely no clue can't drive it that some young determined enthusiast is going to be the same. I'm not saying that we can all go around driving F1 cars, but I am saying that those guys driving those cars are just like you and me, humans. I can guarentee you that the fastest guys on GT5 here on GT Planet, and the fastest guys in F1 2011 and the fastest guys in any sim, you put them in the Red Bull F1 simulator and sure they will probably crash a few times, but give them the chance and they will be just as fast in that simulator.


And you better believe that with my previous karting experience, and the ammount of time I spend playing sims, I damn well think I could apply myself to properly drive an F1 car. I definitely won't be pulling anywhere near fast laptimes, nor 30lap sessions, but I'm absolutely sure that I could pull off a few decent laps without ******** my pants, I recon i'd give Tom Cruise (who recently drove one) a run for his money, and I bet there are some guys on these forums that given the chances in life could have been great race drivers. Its all in the mentality.

I was gonna be a race driver, before I got high
I coulda' won all thoses races , but then I got high
Now I walk on foot to work and I know why, (why man) 'cuz I got high
Because I got high
Because I got high

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I love how people pretend that a real F1 sim would actually be drivable by mortals. I seem to recall a feature on the BBC coverage a couple of races ago where they stuck Coulthard, Christian Horner and Jake in the Red Bull sim rig. It's probably a fair assumption that the RB rig will be basically state of the art, the best sim that is technically possible today.

Jake couldn't drive it to save himself.

I'm not knocking his skills, that would probably be the result were most normal people to try and drive the thing. It's just way beyond our ability, and it's not even the slightest bit fun. No doubt there's a market out there for a serious SERIOUS sim like that, but I bet you it's bloody small.

Given this, it's obvious that any F1 game is going to have to be dumbed down at least some amount in order to be accessible. In my opinion, CM did a good job of striking a balance between drivability and the characteristics that make F1 cars unique. You can feel the downforce, the temperature and wear of the tyres, the edginess, the throttle control needed. It simulates the parts of the experience that people want to enjoy at a level that they can deal with them.

No, it's not full sim. But nothing is, really.

Ferrari Virtual Academy had Massa, Alonso and Fisichella set fast laps and all of them were beaten by quite a few sim racers.

Vettel X Challenge has been golded by many too. In F1 sims used by teams (Red Bull use rFactor Pro), I suspect the best out there will beat F1 drivers by at least half a second if they all did the lap at the same time with same preparation. Real life is different as you go by feel in your body, not just steering wheel feedback or sound and also fear factor. You can't just drive off the track to test the limit so you have to gradually build up speed and I'm sure sim racers with real life experience will get better overtime. GT Academy is an example, Lucas has progressed well and that comes with experience.

You are the biggest idiot known to man. People like you are ruining F1 2011 online. CM has already been notified about the issue and they're working on fixing it this second, what we don't need is idiots like you posting this everywhere so that online turns into a cheatfest. It's bad enough as it is with the rammers, but now there is no skill involved with this setup. Don't post this anywhere else, don't tell anymore of your friends, don't tell anyone actually. If word gets around, time trials will be ruined also, we'll never beat the best times ever again, and if the times get reset, then everyone with a legit time will be angry.

It is already known, I don't see anything idiotic about it being posted as the top times will be already using the setup and someone online will be always using it. Word has got around more or less at release, and I don't think people will be that angry if the boards get reset if they are not even in the top 1000-3000. People might not just bother, the quicker Codemasters fix it the better. Not hope that someone just does not use it.

 

[Bigbazz]

I still find it amazing that people think that gaining time from setting up a car is a bug, every sim out there it is exactly the same, you can make the car easier to drive and much faster while it chews up tyres by setup. And boy does the F1 2011 11/11 setup chew through tyres, but sure its what 3 seconds faster?

Codemasters aren't likely to change it, they still havent fixed the issues with F1 2010. They should stamp down on corner cutting, but that is gonna be the last of it.


To Tribolik : Sorry if you lack the driving talent or self confidence in yourself to believe that others can do it, but you keep singing that song to yourself if it makes you feel better .

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I still find it amazing that people think that gaining time from setting up a car is a bug, every sim out there it is exactly the same, you can make the car easier to drive and much faster while it chews up tyres by setup. And boy does the F1 2011 11/11 setup chew through tyres, but sure its what 3 seconds faster?

Codemasters aren't likely to change it, they still havent fixed the issues with F1 2010. They should stamp down on corner cutting, but that is gonna be the last of it.


To Tribolik : Sorry if you lack the driving talent or self confidence in yourself to believe that others can do it, but you keep singing that song to yourself if it makes you feel better .

Gaining time for a good setup is OK. However by the looks of this specific setup tweak, it hits the sweet spot on the physics and makes the car planted and allows you to use DRS easily where it was not possible before. It is like an exploit. Imagine say iRacing, one setup value makes you 3 seconds a lap quicker and makes the car much easier to drive but it works on all tracks and cars. Then you change it by an increment and you are 3 seconds slower surely iRacing people will fix the loophole in the physics. I don't have this game yet but will get it once they fix the issues. The price should come down for the PS3 version I hope.

 

[Bigbazz]

Gaining time for a good setup is OK. However by the looks of this specific setup tweak, it hits the sweet spot on the physics and makes the car planted and allows you to use DRS easily where it was not possible before. It is like an exploit. Imagine say iRacing, one setup value makes you 3 seconds a lap quicker and makes the car much easier to drive but it works on all tracks and cars. Then you change it by an increment and you are 3 seconds slower surely iRacing people will fix the loophole in the physics. I don't have this game yet but will get it once they fix the issues. The price should come down for the PS3 version I hope.

The cars get gradually faster (but wear more tyres) as you increase the stiffness, the default setups are soft and very generic so you would expect a proper setup to make you a lot faster.

As it turns out the biggest gains are from setting the suspension to the hardest setting, which appears to give the car more stability (though you can certaintly still spin in career mode) but does wear the tyres a lot faster, the result is more responsive and takes away understeer issues meaning you can brake a little later and still hit the apex, allowing you to get on the throttle a little earlier, I personally I've been gaining around 2 seconds from it in qualifying, I had already got my first podium in career while using the default setups, to me the difference is not as big as people seem to make out.

Why do people think DRS through eu rouge is unrealistic? As I already said, they banned it this year in real life because they knew drivers would use it there despite the obvious dangers.



For clarification

Suspension stiffness default is 6 (of 11), the higher the setting the more stable the car becomes and understeer is removed, so it isnt a magic 11 is awesome and 10 is useless, 10 is just slightly worse than 11. The fact that the cars are universally faster this way is probably not right, but the time gained from setting up a car is about right. These setups destroy your tyres in the race, you will find yourself sliding around and losing time, even spinning before the pitstop window if you don't drive careful.

 

[tribolik]

To Tribolik : Sorry if you lack the driving talent or self confidence in yourself to believe that others can do it, but you keep singing that song to yourself if it makes you feel better

Im an 39 year old Architect - professionaly speaking (studied 17 years to become one) and as hobbie Im a DJ... if I wanted to have become a race driver I would probably be a race driver (though I think its a little late for that ) I just thought it was funny what you said IF they sim racers wanted to be race drivers they could/would... I dont think its that simple, every profession takes very hard work to get good at it isnt sitting in your living room in front of a TV that you will accomplish anything and I was only trying to be funny... but I guess Im not all that funny after all...

 

[Bigbazz]

Im an 39 year old Architect - professionaly speaking (studied 17 years to become one) and as hobbie Im a DJ... if I wanted to have become a race driver I would probably be a race driver (though I think its a little late for that ) I just thought it was funny what you said IF they sim racers wanted to be race drivers they could/would... I dont think its that simple, every profession takes very hard work to get good at it isnt sitting in your living room in front of a TV that you will accomplish anything and I was only trying to be funny... but I guess Im not all that funny after all...

No I said they could drive an F1 car, given the chance. I never said anything about becoming an F1 driver. I said that they would be fast in the simulators, I never said anything about being fast in an F1 car. I meant that there is the talent to become a racing driver, not that it is easy to become one if you have talent.


I'm talking about being able to drive an F1 car, if one had the opportunity, or being able to be a racing driver given the opportunity. I don't know how my post shows otherwise? hmm :|.

 

[tribolik]

No I said they could drive an F1 car, given the chance. I never said anything about becoming an F1 driver. I said that they would be fast in the simulators, I never said anything about being fast in an F1 car. I meant that there is the talent to become a racing driver, not that it is easy to become one if you have talent.

OK sorry, my bad... guess I shouldnt try to be so bloody funny all the time... most of the time I seem to FAIL

Theoretically speaking... they would have an edge on a normal person but only on small stints if not fit enough...

 

[JJ72]

I dont think its that simple, every profession takes very hard work to get good at it isnt sitting in your living room in front of a TV that you will accomplish anything and I was only trying to be funny... but I guess Im not all that funny after all...

People achieve a lot sitting in front of a computer. 👍

Give me a physio, 3 to 4 months to get into shape, some decent track time in go karts/ Formula 3 and I am very confident I can lap in an F1 car without doing silly mistakes.

 

[Imari]

People achieve a lot sitting in front of a computer.

Give me a physio, 3 to 4 months to get into shape, some decent track time in go karts/ Formula 3 and I am very confident I can lap in an F1 car without doing silly mistakes.

Anyone could drive a F1 car. At an entirely pedestrian (ha!) pace. What are we talking about in terms of a reasonable pace here? 5 seconds off a top level driver in equal machinery? 10 seconds?

It seems like you, and several other people in this thread are of the opinion that if only you had got the breaks that some of the F1 drivers had when they were younger, you'd be behind the wheel of the RB7 right now.

Fat chance.

Even leaving the physicality of an F1 car out of it, which can be trained up to for most normal people if needs be, F1 drivers are ENORMOUSLY skilled. They are the gold medal Olympians of their profession, no non-professional should even be considered in the same sentence.

Let us look at another example, the Top Gear Reasonably Priced car challenge. The original Liana ran for several years and took a range of drivers of various skill levels. The fastest was Ellen McArthur at 1:46.7, a professional athlete.

The fastest F1 driver is Vettel, at 1:44.0. That's a lot in such a slow, forgiving car.

I find it hard to believe that an ordinary person with a little track experience could expect to be within even 10 seconds of Vettel in an F1 car. Assuming they were suitably physically prepared and everything.

And that's the beauty of F1 2011. It makes you feel as though you *could* hang with the stars of F1. Even though normal people know that they very much could not.

 

[JJ72]

I think before you open your mouth you shouldn't assume people here have no track experience in high powered and high grip level cars.

I raced karts at regional level, some of my old rivals are now in Formula BMW/ Formula 3 and competes with the best the world has to offer. I had the chance to drive one of their Formula Renaults and I can be 2 seconds within their pace on old training tires and only a base setup. The thing about driving fast is, once you know about how to go fast, you don't forget about it, the rule of going fast is universal.

10 second off pace in an F1 car means you are only using about 80% of the car's potential.....and driving at 80% is piss easy. In a well sorted well balanced racing car, and paddle gearbox with autoblip coded in it is even easier than a road car.

Don't know what is the point of the Liana example, a professional athlete in something not related to car racing means....what? The skill set is not related at all.

 

[Bigbazz]

Anyone could drive a F1 car. At an entirely pedestrian (ha!) pace. What are we talking about in terms of a reasonable pace here? 5 seconds off a top level driver in equal machinery? 10 seconds?

It seems like you, and several other people in this thread are of the opinion that if only you had got the breaks that some of the F1 drivers had when they were younger, you'd be behind the wheel of the RB7 right now.

Fat chance.

Even leaving the physicality of an F1 car out of it, which can be trained up to for most normal people if needs be, F1 drivers are ENORMOUSLY skilled. They are the gold medal Olympians of their profession, no non-professional should even be considered in the same sentence.

Let us look at another example, the Top Gear Reasonably Priced car challenge. The original Liana ran for several years and took a range of drivers of various skill levels. The fastest was Ellen McArthur at 1:46.7, a professional athlete.

The fastest F1 driver is Vettel, at 1:44.0. That's a lot in such a slow, forgiving car.

I find it hard to believe that an ordinary person with a little track experience could expect to be within even 10 seconds of Vettel in an F1 car. Assuming they were suitably physically prepared and everything.

And that's the beauty of F1 2011. It makes you feel as though you *could* hang with the stars of F1. Even though normal people know that they very much could not.

Practice makes perfect. You're talking about drivers who spent their whole lives practicing and racing, obviously that is what makes skill. When I was young and did karting and I was good and I was told I had talent, I had no fear of speed and I put everything into being the fastest I could be. I had one dream then and it was to be like Damon Hill, an F1 driver, but my family did not have the money to let me go further, furthermore my grandmother didnt want me to do it due to the death of ayrton senna highlighting the dangers of racing. Reality kicked in and like most people I did not get the chance to further my love for it, so I got into music (my dad was a musician).

Could I have become an F1 driver? The chances are, like for every other race driver or talented driver. No. But can a sim racer become a racing driver from his practice with a lot of fitness training and proper guidance? Obviously yes. Would Lucas Ordonez be fast in a F1 car, absolutely. Would he be as fast as Vettel, definitely not. But lets get this clear, we're talking about being able to drive an F1 car in the real world without crashing or spinning or without driving it so slow that a road car can beat you (jeremy clarkson). Can a talented sim racer that didnt have a lifetime of practice do this, absolutely. How much off the pace are we talking? probably 10 seconds or more, but as I said practice makes perfect.


I play the guitar, have played it for just over 10 years and I am very proficient at it, I am a musician by career, but a talented enough kid can get very near the level that I play at in maybe 3 years. Now he won't have the knowledge or the nuances of control that I have, but physically he will be able to perform just as accurately as I can. Everything in life is about how you apply yourself and your mentality, you can do anything if you put your mind to it, and someone who is really confident and focussed towards something will achieve it. There is nothing magical about F1 drivers, they just worked hard at their craft, like any other athlete or professional.

 

[JJ72]

doubled

 

[Imari]

If you believe that all it takes is practise to be a world-class driver, more power to you. F1 drivers do work bloody hard to get where they are, and bloody hard to maintain and improve that skill set.

Obviously we all agree that without at least several months of training and experience in relevant and similar racing categories, a normal person wouldn't stand a chance in an F1 car. With that training could they be competitive? Maybe.

I do believe however that there's a certain level of innate affinity for a sport that drives some athletes to be better than others. Part of it is a love for their chosen sport, allowing them to devote their whole lives to it without regret. Part of it is being naturally quick to learn and understand the concepts on which the sport hinges. Part of it is the physical attributes relevant to the sport. And part of it is just good old fashioned hard work.

Anyone can put in the hard work, but without all those aspects you will lose to those that do have them. Because they are working harder, longer, and more efficiently.

I don't believe that you can do anything if you put your mind to it. That's obvious bollocks. Some people will never be able to understand advanced physics, no matter how much they study. Some people will never be capable of driving an F1 car, no matter how much they practise.


And JJ72, we were talking about ordinary people driving an F1 car. By having experience in Formula cars you're pretty much automatically not just and ordinary person, from a racing perspective.

 

[Green]

Imari no one here thinks they could jump in a F1 car on Friday qualify pole saturday and cruise round the track for an easy victory on sunday. But your trying to say that because Jake from the bbc can't drive then that means everyone has no chance of driving a F1 car. Then you've been backing tracking ever since, BigBazz is right practice makes perfect anyone who wanted to learn how to drive an F1 car could if they put the effort in and had the money to fund it (and has arms, legs, brain,eyes ect). They might never be as good as vettel as he's been training his whole life and pretty much dedicates his whole life to being the best. But mortals can drive F1 cars and do drive F1 car just like mortals can do advanced physics.

 

[tribolik]

Imari no one here thinks they could jump in a F1 car on Friday qualify pole saturday and cruise round the track for an easy victory on sunday. But your trying to say that because Jake from the bbc can't drive then that means everyone has no chance of driving a F1 car. Then you've been backing tracking ever since, BigBazz is right practice makes perfect anyone who wanted to learn how to drive an F1 car could if they put the effort in and had the money to fund it (and has arms, legs, brain,eyes ect). They might never be as good as vettel as he's been training his whole life and pretty much dedicates his whole life to being the best. But mortals can drive F1 cars and do drive F1 car just like mortals can do advanced physics.

Can you do advanced physics??? if you can you know that you had to study at least 16 or 17 years to be able to do that...and its no diferent from F1...

 

[Bigbazz]

Read up on Neurophysiology and some of the research and experiments put into it, you can create "talent" within yourself and the brain can make new connections that will allow you to develop in ways that would help you improve in areas, beyond simple practice. There are obviously limitations to everything, but someone with enough belief in themselves and what they do, with enough dedication can achieve anything.

The point is that these individuals are usually the ones that do, and the guys that don't are generally those who do not have the mentallity to make it through. Most of the people who do not have what it takes, are not the ones who are "applying themselves" and progressing in the right direction with the kind of dedication it needs to be the best in something.

But lets not forget that the original subject was just the ability of a normal person to drive an F1 car and a real F1 simulator, not to be the next world champion.

 

[Imari]

But lets not forget that the original subject was just the ability of a normal person to drive an F1 car and a real F1 simulator, not to be the next world champion.

Quite.

My point was as follows:

1. A game is something you sit down to play from time to time.
2. Driving an F1 car or full-spec F1 simulator is incredibly demanding and difficult (requiring much training and practise).
3. No normal person (defined as no serious racing experience) can expect to sit down and play such a full-spec sim, any more than you would expect them to jump in and drive an F1 car.
Therefore, a full-spec sim marketed as a game would be a disaster and terribly frustrating for the majority of people who play it.

Jake Humphries was and is a perfect example of your average consumer. He's a motorsport presenter, so I'd be surprised if he doesn't have the odd casual lap of a track sometime, but he's obviously not a pro. A good everyman.

I don't care if specific people on here think they're the next Sebastian Vettel. Or if you believe that all your dreams come true if you only wish hard enough. The fact is that a normal person cannot drive a F1 car or sim without serious training, by which point they are not normal any longer.

 

[Bigbazz]

I guarentee you that you put me into a full simulator and within 20-30 mins I would be comfortable enough to run fairly consistant laptimes. Your iRacing and Netkars of the world are intended to be full simulations, many real drivers say they are harder than the real thing. If anything a full spec simulator like the Red Bull (which ran Rfactor Pro last year, not sure about this year but I know the Williams simulator still runs Rfactor pro) would be slightly easier and more consistant to drive than the commercial available game based ones like iRacing and NetKar.

Simulators are essencially computer games with data input/output.


Jake Humphries is a clumsy hopeless lump, he tried sports car racing in a low powered Lotus and he was hopeless. Again, you need to take "Normal people" and then narrow it down a bit more than that. Sim racers, pro gamers, athletes and racing enthusiasts are a different kind of breed to clumsy tv presenter "normal" people.

I'm not even fast, but among all my friends they all think I am some sort of awesome beast of a sim racer and driver, and they often have me to explain to them different driving techniques and how to go faster. And don't forget now, by sim racing standards I really am not fast, not in these circles.

There is a massive difference between your average joe and your enthusiast driver type. It doesnt take months of training to be able to drive an F1 car. The problem is not driving it, the problem is

1. Lasting more than a few laps without your body being destroyed.
2. Having the balls and the skill to push the car into working temperatures


As I said, we're not talking about racing an F1 car or setting fast laps. Were talking a theoretical test day, like as if you bought one of those £600,000 lotus F1 clone type cars.

 

[Green]

Can you do advanced physics??? if you can you know that you had to study at least 16 or 17 years to be able to do that...and its no diferent from F1...

No I can't but yes if I spent the next 15-20 years dedicated to learning it I could answer your question with a yes. I most likely would not be the best at it but I could do it. This is my point people aren't born great they become great.