SHOE's COMPLETE GUIDE TO LE MANS 24h RACING

  • Thread starter Shoe67
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^^^ exactly

You have no fear of death in the game, however, in real life, you experience the Gs and the bumps in the track, and realize that if the smallest thing goes wrong, it will go really wrong in a hurry. (Group B anyone?)
 
Awesome stuff man, I think when I have my DFGT me and my housemates are going to attempt a 24h race. I have the 905 too so one of the best cars on paper is available. Only worry now is my housemates. only one of them plays gt5 and casually! may have to give some instruction befoe I hand over a potential 2 lap lead to someone who may cock it up! :nervous:
 
mini28
Awesome stuff man, I think when I have my DFGT me and my housemates are going to attempt a 24h race. I have the 905 too so one of the best cars on paper is available. Only worry now is my housemates. only one of them plays gt5 and casually! may have to give some instruction befoe I hand over a potential 2 lap lead to someone who may cock it up! :nervous:
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If they are worse, just drive faster :sly:
 
Or... you get sports softs, the casual player gets race hards, and the novices get race softs and the DS3. :) Or whatever it works out to. Biggest problem is likely getting the others to practice enough before the race, and I suppose finding the correct-paced car to even it all out(especially if they don't practice).
 
Shoe67
Great job on the race ^^^ 👍

I agree with the slower car idea. I don't like getting too far ahead. I am actually planning to do a 24h Nurburgring in a xj13 :scared: it will be a tough race
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That's a bold plan. The XJ13 is not that slow though and nice to drive, so you might have a chance.

I would love to try the Ring with something in the class that they actually do it in nowadays (GT3-class cars), i.e. my favourite would be the Audi R8 Playstation. With all the corners involved you might have a chance against the LMPs, especially, if you can squeeze one more lap out of the tires than them. (which is also true of the XJ13 - I tried it for an online race and was able to go considerably longer than more modern LMPs on Le Mans, so this should also be true for the Ring)

The "highest" I would want to go car-wise would be the BMW McLaren F1 GTR, if other GT-class cars prove to be too slow.
 
Shoe67
As people are always asking about “what is the best car for the 24hour races?” and “what strategies and tips do I need to know?” and other related questions, I decided to end the dozens of pointless threads made every day and make a complete guide to endurance racing at Le Mans.

The first question is always;
“What car is the best?”
The best can mean a lot of things, so I have ran all of the LMP cars, and gathered the data on them, so you can decide for yourself whether you want longer tire life, fuel life, of faster lap times.

[NOTE] ALL CARS ARE RUN ON STOCK SETTINGS WITH RH TIRES FRONT AND REAR ON THE LE MANS ’09 CIRCUIT WITH CHICANES.

CAR...............................................LAP TIMES......TIRE LIFE.......FUEL USE……………..STARTING PP
Peugeot 905 Race Car '92..................~3:16-3:20.....6 laps...........52 liters…………….719pp
Audi R10 TDI '06..............................~3:26-3:28.....6 laps...........53 liters……………….673pp
Audi R8 '01.....................................~3:16-3:20.....6 laps...........55 liters………………..705pp
Audi R8 '05.....................................~3:18-3:22.....6 laps...........54 liters………………..702pp
BMW V12 LMR Race Car '99................~3:19-3:23....5 laps...........44 liters……………708pp
Bentley Speed 8 Race Car '03.............~3:20-3:24....6 laps...........51 liters…………….712pp
Mazda 787B Race Car '91...................~3:18-3:22....5 laps...........45 liters…………….708pp
Peugeot 908 Team Oreca Matmut '10...~3:21-3:25....5 laps...........44 liters………..697pp
Peugeot 908 Team Peugeot Total '10...~3:21-3:25....5 laps...........44 liters………….697pp
Toyota GT-ONE (TS020) '99...............~3:20-3:23....6 laps...........52 liters……………...699pp
MINOLTA Toyota 88C-V '89................~3:13-3:18....5 laps...........48 liters……………..723pp
Pescarolo Courage C60 Race Car '03....~3:24-3:28....5 laps...........45 liters……………700pp
Pescarolo Courage GV5 '04.................~3:16-3:20....5 laps...........45 liters…………….700pp
Pescarolo C60 Hybride '05..................~3:18-3:21....5 laps...........49 liters…………….720pp
Nissan R390 GT1 Race Car '98.............~3:27-3:30....4 laps...........38 liters……………683pp
Nissan R89C Race Car' 89...................~3:12-3:16....5 laps...........49 liters…………….716pp
Nissan R92CP Race Car '92.................~3:13-3:17.....5 laps..........50 liters…………….717pp
Sauber Mercedes C9 '89....................~3:14-3:18.....5 laps..........50 liters……………722pp
Jaguar XJR-9 LM Race Car '88............~3:20-3:24.....5 laps..........49 liters……………711pp
Mercedes CLK-LM Race Car '98............~3:21-3:26....4 laps..........38 liters…………..681pp
Panoz Esparante GTR-1 Race Car ’98..…~3:29-3:33…...4 laps………..…40 liters…………...656pp
Gillet Vertigo Race Car ’04…………………..~3:32-3:40…..5 laps………….50 liters………..672pp



If anyone has any questions about the data above, or suggestions for other cars I should include, ask! I have no problem adding cars to my table. (No Toyota 7 or FGT because they have no lights and it is suicide to drive them at night).

The next step in choosing a car is deciding which ones you enjoy to drive. If you want the interior view with full detail, your only options are the 787b, 908, R10, and XJR-9(DLC version). Also, the open top LMPs have cockpits, just no working gauges. Narrow your choices down to 3 or 4 cars you might want, and drive them around for a few hours. Make sure they handle the way you want them to, and make sure they can drive well in rain (i.e., windshield wipers allow you to see out of the windscreen), and that the headlights work well enough for you to see the next corner during the darkest point of the night.


THE SETUP:
Setting up a car is very important before tackling a 24 hour race. You want to make sure that it is smooth enough so that you can drive it subconsciously and just let the hours flow past, but you need to be able to still drive it full out in the case that you find yourself a lap behind with 2 hours to go. So the next question is, “What kind of setup should I have for a 24h car?” There are a lot of things you should do. First thing is to make understeer and oversteer completely gone. Any understeer burns up your front tires, and any oversteer will burn up your rear tires, and you need your tires to survive as long as possible in these races. Every car is different in setting up to prevent under and over steer, so you will have to figure it out yourself, or get a tune from someone else, but the general idea is that if you are understeering, soften the front suspension, and if you are oversteering, soften the rear suspension. Also, you can help prevent understeer and oversteer by using the LSD. Lowering the value will prevent understeer, and raising it will prevent oversteer, so you must find the balance between the two under both acceleration and braking. Another thing you can use is the brake balance adjuster. Add more braking to the front to prevent oversteer under braking, and add more rear brake to prevent understeer. The brake balance adjuster can also be used to affect your tire wear. If your rear tires are wearing to fast, add more front brake. The same goes for the fronts, add more rear brake if your front tires are wearing too fast. Next part of the setup is to take care of camber and toe. Having more camber will help your lap times, but makes your tires wear faster, while having less will increase your tire life. Find a balance between the two that fit you. Generally I keep my camber between 0.5 and 1.5, however some cars may vary. As for toe, having both front and rear set to 0.00 is ideal for tire life, but not for handling. Generally you will have front set to slightly negative and rear set to slightly positive, but rarely exceed -0.15 or 0.15. The next part of this is to set up your driving aids. This is mostly to your personal preference, but to make the race as easy as possible, it is best to have ABS and TCS at least turned on. ABS prevents tire lock up, allows for faster laps, and longer lasting tires. TCS prevents wheel spin, and allows for faster acceleration, longer lasting tires, and saves fuel. (NOTE, having TCS set too high will make your laps much slower). ASM helps to prevent you from skidding and sliding around on the track, and increases tire life, and allows for faster laps. Active steering will help correct a mistake you make when sliding out of control. Although it does help with lap times somewhat, it will not make any majorly noticeable difference in performance, so it is up to you. Also, if you are driving correctly, you shouldn’t need active steering. SRF is an unreal aid. It pushes your tires into the ground and allows you to take corners at greater rates than you normally could. Although it can greatly help lap times and tire life, don’t use it if you have any respect for yourself. Lastly is tire selection. Always in LMP cars, the rear tires will wear out faster than the front tires. Therefore, you can run a softer compound tire in the front than in the rear, which gives you more grip and increases lap times. Some cars you can run softs in the front (most Group C cars), but in some of the more modern LMPs you can only run a medium in the front. You want your front and rear tires to wear out at the same rate. One thing you can do if you feel really good about your tuning ability and really want to get into perfectly tuning your car, you should tune the car to perform best at about half a tank of fuel. The physics in GT5 do include fuel weight, so as you use fuel in the race, your car becomes lighter and a larger percentage of weight is in the front of the car. If you look at the table above you can see that most of the cars use around half a tank of fuel per tire stint, therefore you never need more than 50-60 liters of fuel in your tank. And a good endurance racer will never have more than that in the fuel tank at any given time.



HOW TO TACKLE THE COURSE:
Many people don’t know how to drive a car for endurance races. It’s not about driving all out and going for extremely fast times. It’s about being able to find a balance between performance and endurance. There are several key elements to extending tire and fuel life. Mostly, do all of your braking in a straight line, coast through corners, and be very easy and smooth on the throttle. Never brake while turning as it puts a lot of strain on your front tires and wears them out faster. Also, never throttle heavily when turning as it puts strain on your rear tires and wears them out faster. Never go straight to full throttle as it wears your tires faster and uses lots of fuel. Another key thing is to stay on the track. Going off on the Mulsanne corner or the Porsche curves or the Esses section can use as much as 2 extra liters of fuel to get back on course. And going off 3 times in a stint can cost major time in the pits. An often overlooked but still very important aspect of extending tire life is using the curbs. To run fast laps and fast corners, generally you hook your inside front tire on the curb and throttle around the corner. However, this will burn up your outside rear tire extremely fast. It is good to be right up against the curbs and run a proper racing line, but never stick your tires over them to help take a corner faster. Also, never use first gear, as accelerating out of first gear using more fuel and is harder on your tires. An extra thing you could do (if you choose to use a manual transmission) is to “short shift”, or shift before you normally would. This will slightly lower your lap times, but save up to 2 or 3 liters in a stint. The next most important thing about being able to drive a good endurance race is to know the track better than the back of your hand. You have to be able to drive similar lap times lap after lap after lap for hours on end. Here is what I have found to be the best way to lap the Circuit de la Sarthe in the Le Mans cars. Go down the main straight past the pits, coast through the right hander then brake as needed to in order to enter the Dunlop Chicane (usually into second gear). Use the throttle lightly coming out of the chicane than accelerate through the left hand bend leading into the Esses. Some cars you may need to coast through the first right bend, others you can hold the throttle. Then brake before the sharper left, and throttle through the left and right handers. Next is the Tertre Rouge corner, which leads onto the Mulsanne straight. Brake before you hit the corner, then coast through the corner, trying to stay above 120mph (~200kph). Then you go down the Mulsanne leading into the first right hand chicane. Brake after the first braking marker where there is a split in the guard rail (painted yellow), then coast through the chicane feathering the throttle as needed. Next is the second part of the Mulsanne leading into the left hand chicane. On this chicane you can wait to brake until just before the last braking marker, because the turn-in isn’t as sharp for the second chicane as it was for the first. Then you feather the throttle as needed to get through the chicane. Avoid hopping the curbs in either of those chicanes, as they are the tallest on the course. After leaving the second chicane and going down the third Mulsanne stretchy, you reach a kink in the road. Brake and shift down a gear, coast through the bend, then do necessary braking to go around the Mulsanne corner (avoid first gear if possible). Next is the kinked straight. Stay wide open through the first two kinks, then brake and shift down a gear, coast through the right hand bend, and then do necessary braking into Indianapolis. Be sure to coast through this corner as you can really shred your tires here. Next is the tight right hand Arnage corner. This is the slowest corner on the track, yet still avoid first gear. Accelerate down the curved straight staying to the left side. Brake as you need to for the first of the Porsche curves, then coast through the right hander, then throttle the left hander. Next you reach a left hander followed by a long sweeping right, and a quick left. Brake then feather the throttle as needed to go around the corners at decent speed. Next you will have a quick right-left “lane change chicane” which you can throttle through. Next is the Ford Chicanes, which you brake as needed for, then coast through each, avoiding first gear and the curbs on the second of the two chicanes. Now you are back on the main straight after 38 corners across 8.47 miles. Once you get the track memorized, it’s just a matter of staying consistent.


Another commonly asked question about endurance racing is “How long should I drive?” This question is all about personal preference. I personally enjoy getting another person or two, and taking turns doing ~2 hour stints each. However, some people prefer doing it alone. I wouldn’t recommend sitting for more than 8 hours nonstop playing (although I am sure many people have done the whole 24h race nonstop by themselves in real time). I would recommend either doing 3 or 4 hour stints with an hour rest in between to move around, stretch, get some food, go to the bathroom, and do whatever other business you need to do.


The AI;
Another important thing of endurance racing is to know your opponents. The AI generally complete around 380 laps (depending on weather and what cars are in the race). An average pace for a leading AI is generally around 3:30 in the dry, then 4:00-4:10 in the rain. So make sure in practice that you can run at least those times consistently. The best car you race against is the Pescarolo C60 Hybride ’05, so if you aren’t feeling confident, don’t start the race with that car in the field.



Some final tips;
NEVER NEVER NEVER use any RedBull x1 cars, as it is so tedious and takes so much concentration to drive that you will stab your television by the end of the race.
Try using a car that is roughly the same pace as the AI. You don’t want to win by 7 laps.
The next thing is to not cheat (i.e., cut corners, bump AI off track, use rain glitch). Only do any of those if you find yourself a lap down with 2 hours remaining (as you don’t want to redo the whole race).


So there it is. Everything you need to know about how to handle the 24h of Le Mans. With all 2,498 words (including what I am typing now), and all 14,739 characters (including spaces), I am sure you grammar Nazis can find something that I messed up. I tried to make this as thorough as possible and answer most of the commonly asked things surrounding the 24 hour Le Mans race. If anyone has any comments or questions about this, just ask. I am open to criticism and suggestions. 👍
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Shoe do you run your cars with traction control
 
Shoe67
It's for consistency. Usually I use ASM and ABS only
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I'm surprised you prefer ASM, it's usually a Car-Killer for me, ESPECIALLY with the LMPs. May not be too noticeable on Sarthe, but on the 'ring it feels like I'm being held back with a leash! :indiff:
 
Haha, wait 'til you drive an LMP car with EVERY assist on. :lol: I understand wht GT5 A.I. is so slow, now. My Hyundai doesn't need TCS, ABS, or other tomfoolery. Why does Emmanuelle Pirro? :lol:
 
I'm so glad they reduced the tyre wear again. It was so tedious having to pit every 5-6 laps....

I've just started the race again in the Peugeot 908 but reduced the power to around 580hp to keep myself pulling away too easily from the pace setting Audi R8 '01. It's been very close so far with the Audi usually around 8 seconds ahead by the end of his ten lap stints.

He's clearly quicker as he'll pull over a 20 second advantage at the beginning of the stint but as the tyres wear I always manage to claw back around 12 seconds.

But I've got a ace up my sleeve as long as I don't make too many mistakes... I'm doing 11 lap stints so on lap 100 I should gain around a minute over the Audi.
 
I wish you the best of luck. Also, I just realized that I might have to re-run all of the cars to get new data on them. The tire wear, and suspension physics is different now because of the update. :grumpy:
 
Shoe67
I wish you the best of luck. Also, I just realized that I might have to re-run all of the cars to get new data on them. The tire wear, and suspension physics is different now because of the update. :grumpy:
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Thanks.

Start with the Audi R10 please. I remember it being very gentle on it's tyres so I was wondering with the new update if something ridiculous like 20 laps was possible per stint on hard tyres.

Although thinking about it I'd guess you'd be resticted by fuel... Maybe if it can run a decent pace on medium tyres and almost empty it's fuel tank (13-14 laps?) then it might have a chance.
 
Has it always been the case that GT5 can't remember the weather you had when you save it mid race?

Just asking because after saving on a bone dry track I load it up to find 100% rain.... Wasn't having that and thankfully it's dry again on the second attempt.

Sorry to double post but wasn't sure where else to post this.
 
That is correct. Actually, it's more of a glitch. People are behind in the dry, so they reload it for it to be rain, an that allows them to make up more time
 
You'll probably know shoe, how many laps do the computer drivers complete? rough obviously. Don't want an exact amount because you have to factor in rain etc. :)
 
387 is about the highest (could be possibly a bit more in 100% dry for full race. Around 380 for most races.

And thank you photonrider and jedikeeper :cheers:
 
I'm considering doing it in an X1, just to get the LeMans one done. The 2 24h races are all I have left in the game.

I may do the Nurburgring race properly. But I don't have the patience to do a whole LeMans race with a half broken controller.

I did a quick run in the X1 a little while ago. Can do 7 laps on 90 litres of fuel. 2:30 a lap.
 
I wouldn't run an x1. I can't concentrate while driving that thing (especially with ds3) for more than an hour. I'd go insane
 
I've read this thread and now doing my 2nd hour of legit le mans ( i said legit because back then i wasted 24h using an x1 cutting corners and stuff :( ) . Because of this guide while I'm racing with my personalized 908 i can run 11-12 laps after pitting and man it's so fun that i become 4th sometimes and 1 and it just changes and changes i can feel the pressure which makes me want to stay up later well thanks for sharing your knowledge with le mans racing.
 
Great post. I'll try Le Mans again soon, I've done it before once with the X1, just for getting it done. Now I'll try to make it less boring, more competitive.
 
I haven't finished the 24H le Mans that often, three times perhaps.

But I have tested cars no end. To me the fun is in driving a low PP car as hard as possible without crashing too hard into a barrier. This usually ends the race at some point after dark :-(

These last months I drove the Cerbera 12 and the Veyron. They can be a bit twitchy and I always ended by crashing out. The Cerbera has the best exhaust of them all.
But a present the Tommykaira ZZII is great fun! 575 Performance Points when I start on a dry track, Racing Soft tyres and no aids except ABS. 11-14 laps between pit stops depending on engine/downforce ratio. I tend to prefer avoiding the R8 Race Car '01 however. On a wet track I can go below 565 PP and hope that the rain will last, 15 laps between pit stops.

The races always end when I push too hard or the opposition cars misbehave after a suspended race is resumed.
 

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