So......what are Sony and Yamauchi waiting for?

  • Thread starter Kingdizzi
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After watching various interviews I would love to say GT5 is coming out in October but I still think Dec is more realistic.

What I believe will happen (only guessing!) is GT5 will be announced at TGS with a release date set for Dec. Between Oct-Dec Sony will go into over drive promoting GT5 because lets face it GT5 will be a console seller especially if the rumoured PS3 price drop occurs.

If I was the marketing manager responsible for promoting GT5 I will really use the fact that the Top Gear test track is on this game. We all know how popular Top gear is and I reckon many who watch the show who aren't even into video games will purchase a PS3 & GT5 on the strength of this.

As for Turn 10 well all I can say is the words desperation, fear, inferiority come to mind. If you watch the press conferences of Forza 2 and then Forza 3 their attitude is chalk and cheese. I said in the forza forums that they should stop making comments about their competitors because its having the reverse effect.

The video below sums up my feelings perfectly and towards the end when the E3 09 trailer is shown it makes my hair stand up on the back of my neck. Apologies if you have already seen this, but if not turn up the volume and enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNDoYUsRrjI
 
Dan Greenwalt has obviousely been to sales and marketing school since Forza 2 because all this in our face agressive hyping of his own product is the very basics of sales and marketing being done badly. You become more subtle as you improve but thoes smaller more subtle peaks can be used oh so effectively by thoes blessed with proper sales ability. Dan hasn't got it.

I'm sure Forza 3 will be a great game, I hope it is but like so many here I am not warming to Dan right now. He came across okay when they were making Froza 2 and not beacuse he was slightly complimentary about Gran Turismo back then, but because overall he wasn't trying to be in your face we are best at what were doing pompousness that he's picked up since then.
 
I agree with everything, whether it be buy both games and enjoy them for what they are, or some of the personnel at Turn 10 are being a bit flaky, but what I just realized by watching the awesome trailer again is we shouldn't let Dan, or Che dilute the game.

Why should Forza 3 suffer for their 'maculate' boasting? I'm probably saying nothing different from "Play both games and enjoy them" but, the perspective itself is different...so I think. It's like when critics berate a movie for whatever dull reasons most critics have, and you're sitting on your couch or whatever saying "🤬 you, that movie was great."

Same thing, but reverse logic. 👍

EDIT: Another thing, I hope they've got working mechanics this time around because the idea of certain vehicles that use air-brakes that deploy at a certain speeds not being present in the game, resulting in what I've been calling "Invisi-force" bugs me for some reason.
 
Terronium-12
I agree with everything, whether it be buy both games and enjoy them for what they are, or some of the personnel at Turn 10 are being a bit flaky, but what I just realized by watching the awesome trailer again is we shouldn't let Dan, or Che dilute the game.

Why should Forza 3 suffer for their 'maculate' boasting? I'm probably saying nothing different from "Play both games and enjoy them" but, the perspective itself is different...so I think. It's like when critics berate a movie for whatever dull reasons most critics have, and you're sitting on your couch or whatever saying "🤬 you, that movie was great."
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Whatever. Double standards when it comes to Need for Speed Shift and other games.
 
II IVORBIGUN II
I said in the forza forums that they should stop making comments about their competitors because its having the reverse effect.
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But it's not is it, it's having exactly the desired effect...it's getting people talking about Forza 3. It's getting more and more interest because of his claims. Look at game forums everywhere....they're alive with FM3 debate. It's all publicity.

It's naive to think that Dan and Turn 10 don't know that GT5 is going to surpass them when it comes out; and that's they key word, when. All they have to say is that GT5 wasn't out at the time they released FM3, so they're fully justified in saying FM3 is a definitive racing game.

I just don't understand how else he his supposed to approach promoting his game; a game in direct competition with GT5. What is he supposed to say..."Yeah, we won't be as good as GT5, but buy a copy anyway"? That's ridiculous. And anyway, look at the Blur/NFS:S/Forza mix...they're all taking jabs at each other.

It's clear FM3 will ship before GT5, and however you cut it, 400 cars and 100 tracks with near limitless cutomisation options will, at the time, be definitive.

Sony are waiting for the re-launched PS3 slim to come, along with a price drop before they release GT5, that should be clear to everyone. The waiting game has nothing to do with the status of GT5. What we're really waiting for is the slim PS3 at the $299 price tag; not development of the game to be completed, as Kaz has already said that it's virtually ready to release, and also that it's a matter of timing.

The slim PS2 was released around the time of hugely anticipated GTA: San Andreas (currently the top selling PS2 game), so it makes sense for Sony to relaunch the slim PS3 around the time that the most anticipated PS3 game in GT5 is released.
 
Yeah If its like previous Forza's its alot of hot air, i know alot of people who have been disssapointed than impressed by both previous games. The way MS are working to get attention is via PS3 and GT5 envy/hate. Emotional reasoning always triumphs over the rational. The 360 fanbase is very rabbid. They will buy and they will naysay other games. The whole compare with GT5 thing is to put it above the other racers. No doubt EA will be scrambling with their NFS Shift product. They should be aggressive too. Their e3 showing was a failiure.

The gaming media also gave Forza 3 e3 awards ahead of GT PSP , Split Second and other games. Obviously the approach is working. Personally i am not seeing what is special or unique about Forza. Its another me too game. Its hard to get excited. So i guess bring in the dumb fanboy crap...

It's clear FM3 will ship before GT5, and however you cut it, 400 cars and 100 tracks with near limitless cutomisation options will, at the time, be definitive.
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Being first to market hardly makes anything definitive. Maybe if it was a new and unique product like Split Second. But Forza is the epitome of a me too game.
 
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Terronium-12
Why should Forza 3 suffer for their 'maculate' boasting? I'm probably saying nothing different from "Play both games and enjoy them" but, the perspective itself is different...so I think. It's like when critics berate a movie for whatever dull reasons most critics have, and you're sitting on your couch or whatever saying "🤬 you, that movie was great."
Click to expand...
The thing is, just like your movie example, when developers/movie makers go to the extent of including the word "best" & "definitive" to describe their products, there will be people going in with high expectations expecting such.

However, being humans, many people will go to see the movie/try the game, many won't like it & won't buy it because they'll feel lied to about what the developers/makers boasted about.

We won't hear about it, but there will be people out there really 'bothered' about Dan's words when the game wasn't anything to them.
deep_sky
It's clear FM3 will ship before GT5, and however you cut it, 400 cars and 100 tracks with near limitless cutomisation options will, at the time, be definitive.
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Having 400 cars isn't definitive. GT4 had 700; nothing definitive about numbers.
Having 100 tracks isn't definitive, esp. when you consider it's not actually 100 tracks, just 10 locations. & 12 independent courses so far.
The paint editor in a game is the only thing they can really claim, but there's really nothing definitive about it any more, just the improvements they've added to it.
 
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It's a definitive racing game in the generation at the time of release...that's the point. 400 cockpit cam enabled cars on current gen hardware against 700 cars on last gen hardware is no real comparison.

GT5 could surpass FM3, but it's not out yet, so what are Turn 10 going to say? That they're not a definitive racing game because at some point in the future a game may come out and surpass it?

And when, or if, GT5 does surpass FM3, T10 can say that at the time of release they were the definitive racing game of the generation, because they were; and it's pretty likely that 2 years down the road (pun intended) an FM4 will come out to try to leap GT5.
 
Except there's nothing definitive about it. Mixing a bunch of other ideas (& calling them your own none the less) doesn't make you definitive.

Tell me, what makes this game "definitive", what about it has nobody else done before besides its paint editor?
 
There is no doubt customization of a vehicle's visual appearance would be an improvement on the series. I don't see why people wouldn't want it. Racing goes beyond just the track, and for many, it starts in the garage. It starts with a brush, some paint and a beat up car. From there you let your imagination run free and that beat up Sally becomes "your own". That is always the fun part! Then there's winning, and from there it only gets better. So yes, I fully support and encourage customization. And never be jealous or angry because one game does it first. It's never about that.
 
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It's definitive at the time of release because it's the only fully spec'd racing simulator on the market at that time with next gen graphics, physics, damage, cockpit cam, tracks, online support, customization, etc, etc.

Something is absolutely definitive when it has no competition; and when FM3 is released it will have no competition as GT5 won't be released; hence why it's definitive.

And as SrRd RacinG said, customisation is hugely important to some, if not most. That's why Forza has such an engaging online community; showing and sharing their car creation is what a large part of Forza is about, and I hope GT5 has something similar.

We don't even know if GT5 will support in depth customization, we don't know whether GT5's online mode will be up scratch, we don't know the extent of the damage to be incurred, we don't know whether GT5 will have rollover (granted, the way FM3 cars are rolling over is suspect, but hey), hell, we don't even know anything concrete about something as pretty basic as the number of cars or tracks GT5 will have.

In short, we don't yet know anything "definitive" about GT5 to claim that it will give more than what FM3 will offer.

Hopefully though that will change soon...
 
deep_sky
It's definitive at the time of release because it's the only fully spec'd racing simulator on the market at that time with next gen graphics, physics, damage, cockpit cam, tracks, online support, customization, etc, etc.

Something is absolutely definitive when it has no competition; and when FM3 is released it will have no competition as GT5 won't be released; hence why it's definitive.
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I guess Need For Speed: Shift is the definitive racing game then because it's doing everything you just mentioned, but it's being released the month before Forza 3. :rolleyes:
Oh, and before you play the NFS is arcade card, better read up on how it's coming along because it's doing very well with its physics engine.

Nothing about that is definitive, though. GTR2 had physics, damage, cockpit cam, tracks, online support, in-depth tuning, etc., yet Simbin didn't call it the definitive racing game.
Again, just because you mix a bunch of ideas doesn't make you THE definitive racing game. You need something unique, something that excels in every single area of your game. Forza 3 doesn't look to be that far, but then again, no one does because where everyone is accelling in 1 area, someone else is beating them in another. Polyphony have bested Turn10 in the lighting department & number of cars on track, but Turn10 will more than likely beat out PD with its experience in online support & customization.

It's probably me, but when I see someone throwing around the word "Definitive" to describe their product whether its racing, RTS, or FPS, I'm expecting someone to show something new, unique, & a vastly improved idea of the genre. Turn10 hasn't shown me anything I haven't seen before.
 
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deep_sky
It's definitive at the time of release because it's the only fully spec'd racing simulator on the market at that time with next gen graphics, physics, damage, cockpit cam, tracks, online support, customization, etc, etc.

Something is absolutely definitive when it has no competition; and when FM3 is released it will have no competition as GT5 won't be released; hence why it's definitive.

And as SrRd RacinG said, customisation is hugely important to some, if not most. That's why Forza has such an engaging online community; showing and sharing their car creation is what a large part of Forza is about, and I hope GT5 has something similar.

We don't even know if GT5 will support in depth customization, we don't know whether GT5's online mode will be up scratch, we don't know the extent of the damage to be incurred, we don't know whether GT5 will have rollover (granted, the way FM3 cars are rolling over is suspect, but hey), hell, we don't even know anything concrete about something as pretty basic as the number of cars or tracks GT5 will have.

In short, we don't yet know anything "definitive" about GT5 to claim that it will give more than what FM3 will offer.

Hopefully though that will change soon...
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About time someone came in and said what you just did. What that guy in the stupid/lame youtube video is the truth, FM3 has been announced, we have a lot more info on it.

And until GT5 is announced and we know whats included then so be it FM3 #1.

And with the amount of cars, I am worried about the GT5 amount, I mean, they already said there won't be as many as GT4 right?

If you minus the Nascars/Rally cars then how many are there?

Those 2 racing modes are stupid IMO.
 
eastley
About time someone came in and said what you just did. What that guy in the stupid/lame youtube video is the truth, FM3 has been announced, we have a lot more info on it.

And until GT5 is announced and we know whats included then so be it FM3 #1.

And with the amount of cars, I am worried about the GT5 amount, I mean, they already said there won't be as many as GT4 right?

If you minus the Nascars/Rally cars then how many are there?

Those 2 racing modes are stupid IMO.
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Rally cars have always been part of the GT car spectrum, so you can't discount them. The Nascars could make way for some of the cars that didn't even have enough power to complete a lap on the Ring (yeah stupid carriages, I'm looking at you) and some other less interesting cars. We'll lose a good deal of other cars, but I'm hopeful we'll get a lot more than in GT3, the first GT on the PS2.

If we get anywhere aroung Forza 3's number, we're fine. If we get even more, fantastic. The most important thing for PD will be to pick the most interesting models while still maintaining a good variety. "Not as many as in GT4" could mean up to 500 or even 600 cars. That's a very good number no matter how you look at it.
 
I'm not sure how anyone else played the games but for me:

I am never big on damage due to stupid AI in games. Even the best AI out there is still pretty poor IMO. So I like to race around, tune and get most out of the cars, do lap after lap hitting the curbs harder every time. GT4 was great for this, no thrills, long races and huge amount of cars. I hated rally, and will hate Nascar.

Forza was there for those times I wanted to have a real race, one where I got to ride bumper to bumper with out making contact. The game if I wanted to pimp my ride I could.

For me GT5 was the winner, only due to my likes. But with a smaller car base, damage, rally, Nascar and online it is becoming more like forza, and no offense but Forza does damage a lot better, does online better and we all know you can't pimp your cars in GT5.
 
eastley
If you minus the Nascars/Rally cars then how many are there?

Those 2 racing modes are stupid IMO.
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I don't understand this comment because rally cars have always been a part of the GT Franchise. Also I feel these cars add greater depth to the game.

You know its funny because some people on the forza forums think im a GT fanboy. What they don't realise is I have played FM2 every day since release and continue to play even today aswell as GT5P. However I shall purchase FM3 but then again I shall trade FM3 in when GT5 is released.

My attitude is simple, if you're a fan of racing games you simply must own GT5. I can never understand why the Forza forums members make such comments as "GT sucks" or "Forza kills GT" when they are supposed to be fans of racing games. Any real fans would never make such comments unless they are youngsters who have never appreciated the GT series.



P.S just realised i've gone completely off topic whilst ranting lol.
 
eastley
I'm not sure how anyone else played the games but for me:

I am never big on damage due to stupid AI in games. Even the best AI out there is still pretty poor IMO. So I like to race around, tune and get most out of the cars, do lap after lap hitting the curbs harder every time. GT4 was great for this, no thrills, long races and huge amount of cars. I hated rally, and will hate Nascar.

Forza was there for those times I wanted to have a real race, one where I got to ride bumper to bumper with out making contact. The game if I wanted to pimp my ride I could.

For me GT5 was the winner, only due to my likes. But with a smaller car base, damage, rally, Nascar and online it is becoming more like forza, and no offense but Forza does damage a lot better, does online better and we all know you can't pimp your cars in GT5.
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Some weird statements in that post. How do you get the idea that Forza does damage a lot better? We've yet to see what sort of damage both GT5 and Forza 3 will offer. Previous GT's didn't have any damage and previous Forza's left me unimpressed as far as damage is concerned.

And a smaller car base doesn't mean it's becoming like Forza at all. You do realize that Forza 3 will have more cars than half of the fully released games so far in the GT series? The lesser car count has everything to do with the time required to redevelop all those car models for a new platform. If we'll see another GT on the PS3, it'll have way more cars, just like we've seen with GT2 and GT4.

Also, how does the addition of rally (which isn't even a new addition, just the license) and NASCAR mean GT is becoming more like Forza? Forza doesn't do any of those things. This has always been Kaz's vision, GT5 is just the next step.

And finally, I have to add I also hated rally in GT4, but that's just because it was so poorly implemented. I'm a big fan of rally and I liked it in earlier GT's. But the poor rally physics, lacklustre tracks and frustrating penalty system ruined it for me. I'll LOVE the WRC in GT5 if it's implemented well. Same for NASCAR I guess. I want to give everything a chance, as long as it's done well.
 
II IVORBIGUN II
I don't understand this comment because rally cars have always been a part of the GT Franchise. Also I feel these cars add greater depth to the game.

You know its funny because some people on the forza forums think im a GT fanboy. What they don't realise is I have played FM2 every day since release and continue to play even today aswell as GT5P. However I shall purchase FM3 but then again I shall trade FM3 in when GT5 is released.

My attitude is simple, if you're a fan of racing games you simply must own GT5. I can never understand why the Forza forums members make such comments as "GT sucks" or "Forza kills GT" when they are supposed to be fans of racing games. Any real fans would never make such comments unless they are youngsters who have never appreciated the GT series.


P.S just realised i've gone completely off topic whilst ranting lol.
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+1 👍
I could not agree more.
 
deep_sky
It's a definitive racing game in the generation at the time of release...
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I'm sorry, but I just can't take this seriously. How is Dan the Mouth supposed to market FM3? How about

"What we have here is the Froza you've been waiting for. There are 400 of the prime cars you'd want from sports to race cars, and 100 tracks taken from locations you've been wanting to race, along with challenging courses created by the fertile imaginations of our design team. And if you liked customizing your car, we've taken that to a whole new level. I know there's another racing game coming out sometime, but I'm here to talk about what you can be racing in a little over four months from now on 360 (with a hard drive), and I haven't even mentioned yet the extras we've come up with to make our game even more fun. So, let's get into it..."

I know acting like a bratty chimp and flinging poo in our faces gets attention, but to many of us, it's the WRONG KIND. I don't like Dan or Che any more. I don't like Turn 10 now. I despize Ms more than ever. And it's affecting my opinion of FM3 much more. I haven't checked out any videos or screenies for a while, and that's too bad on them. Yeah, Froza's coming. Yeah, it's bigger.

Yeah, whatever. Now my focus is on Gran Turismo 5 completely, and I'll nab a copy of the definitive Foza 2 game when I get an inclination.
 
Nattefrost
Some weird statements in that post. How do you get the idea that Forza does damage a lot better? We've yet to see what sort of damage both GT5 and Forza 3 will offer. Previous GT's didn't have any damage and previous Forza's left me unimpressed as far as damage is concerned.

And a smaller car base doesn't mean it's becoming like Forza at all. You do realize that Forza 3 will have more cars than half of the fully released games so far in the GT series? The lesser car count has everything to do with the time required to redevelop all those car models for a new platform. If we'll see another GT on the PS3, it'll have way more cars, just like we've seen with GT2 and GT4.

Also, how does the addition of rally (which isn't even a new addition, just the license) and NASCAR mean GT is becoming more like Forza? Forza doesn't do any of those things. This has always been Kaz's vision, GT5 is just the next step.

And finally, I have to add I also hated rally in GT4, but that's just because it was so poorly implemented. I'm a big fan of rally and I liked it in earlier GT's. But the poor rally physics, lacklustre tracks and frustrating penalty system ruined it for me. I'll LOVE the WRC in GT5 if it's implemented well. Same for NASCAR I guess. I want to give everything a chance, as long as it's done well.
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Ok sorry, it was an assumption to say Forza 3 will have better damage. I still dislike damage regardless of how good it is.

And due to the poor implementation of rally in GT4 is the reason why I dislike the cars even be there, hated rally due to same reasons as yourself.

Nascar is well, boring sorry, so something I will not really look at.

This is why I will not use Nascars and Rally cars, and for the coming more like Forza, I meant everything but those 2 features you mentioned.

I liked GT series to due mass cars, no damage and the fact if you don't upgrade the cars and do some minor tweaking races can be close, you can win on skillfull driving without worrying about stupid AI taking you out.
 
Rally cars are fun to drive also on a lot of race circuits. I think that rally cars have to stay in GT. As for rally mode, I did not play GT4, but if it will be as fun as tarmac racing I will like it a lot!

About NASCAR - these ar really fast machines, so they also can be quite fun to play with on many tracks. The more cars we get, the better (how much time will take the modeling of multiple nascar cars, if they are almost identical, at least I think so).

GT is all about normal road cars, racing, tuning and collecting the cars. So, if I like rally I can have in my garage many rally cars, and someone else can ave a lot of stock cars f.e. They are in the game - this does not mean I have to race them.
 
eastley
And due to the poor implementation of rally in GT4 is the reason why I dislike the cars even be there, hated rally due to same reasons as yourself.
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That sounds like you'd still be willing to give rally a chance if it's drastically improved in GT5. Let's say we get great rally physics and some very interesting WRC stages, would you not consider the rally part of the game a valuable addition? I definately would.
 

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