- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
Word of mouth marketing could explain it's success.
Did any comparable games released around the same time have more cars than GT3?
Sound Update (PD is now hiring! + Email!)Answered
- Thread starter FoRiZon
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Word of mouth marketing could explain it's success.
Did any comparable games released around the same time have more cars than GT3?
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
@Tenacious D, have you ever played any of the previous GTs? Ie the ones on PS2?
Even though I played GT1 (demos though) and had GT2 all the way up until the GT6 we have now, GT3 was best experience I've had. I have to agree with @Johnnypenso, 180 cars was a slash from GT2 but the selection of cars was good. There was a balance of hero cars, supercars and even regular cars.
This is why I can respect Turn 10s decision to do some slashing for Forza 5. Though many complained, it was a good decision. Car count isn't everything. Gameplay and your other supplementaries will make the game. Hence why the GT3 formula won it all.
If GT gets their sounds right along with the other stuff that people have mentioned then hands down they've beat the Competition. If it's something like PGR4s sounds the. I'll be quite happy
- 8,721
Many of the people who bought GT3 didn't play GT2. The explanation for GT3's success has always been unexpected popularity in the US / NA market that just hadn't been there before. I did miss all those cars, but GT3 was fun enough on its own for a while. I did get anxious for GT4 rather quickly, though.
The only thing hurting GT at the moment in respect of its car count is its (visual) aesthetic inconsistency. The lack of (variety in) events has nothing to do with the car count, how could it?
And the sound issue is on the recording side, in the sense of capturing the cars in the most authentic light, not content authoring side (there have always been a lot of sound designers, although they have been conspicuously idle since GT4...). With the new method, a lot of the holes in the recordings can be much more easily and convincingly plugged by a good / attentive sound designer.
- 4,382
- 8,721
Dude, it's all about 2. Blates.
Great tracks, eclectic mix of cars, loads of events (and an event generator) etc. Also, massively improved sound over GT1, and just generally at the time.
Great tracks, eclectic mix of cars, loads of events (and an event generator) etc. Also, massively improved sound over GT1, and just generally at the time.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I did kind of forget to address that. I think it can all be chalked up to a seriously improved next gen experience. The Saturn, PS1 and Ninty64 - with its stingy cartridge format - ushered in some amazing looking graphics for its day. But when the PS2 brought gaming resolution close to that of the TVs we were playing it on, we were flabbergasted. When I toyed around with it at Best Buy on a dinky 13" TV, I could tell it looked better than the PS1 games. But when someone brought over their PS2 and some games to show off, and I saw GT3 on a real TV, I could hardly believe my eyes. Replays looked close to racing video from the Speed Channel! Before it was taken over by NASCAR, but I digress. Even with the flaws, the physics were amazing. There was simply nothing like it at the time.
Yes I did, which was why I mentioned how I would go back to GT2, on Bleemcast with a wheel to boot
, when I grew tired of the limited car and racing choices in GT3. While I loved GT3 for what it was at the time, I really hated losing all those cars and the tracks too, like Grindelwald, Pike's Peak and Red Rock Valley from GT2. Obviously, as I kept going back to the archaic predecessor. So unlike you, it wasn't the greatest GT experience for me, and like Griffith500, I became quite anxious to get my hands on GT4. This was the Gran Turismo which had me in awe for years. Until GT5 Prologue had me angsting all over again for GT5 proper. And then the issues in GT5 had me grateful that GT6 was only three years away, and it's still good enough to pull me away from other racers.Unlike others here, I'm fine with most of the car sounds. I manage to have good racing with the bots, and saved a whole gob of replays of those races, many of which I lost, imagine that. Losing to bots?? Impossible!
I'm with you guys on wanting GT6 to get better, and get more stuff in it. I've only posted my own wants for GT6 all over the boards, and am hitting the ground running with GT7 wishes. What I really want is GT7. NOW. I want to see an even more mature Course Maker than we'll get in GT6. A super Event Maker. A serious Race Mod and a Livery Editor which works with most or all of the cars, even Standards. An even better online build, with those online user hosted racing leagues in place. Better bots. More cars on track. Weather and time of day transition for most or all of the tracks. A lighting engine that's a thing of beauty, and night racing with a LOT more than two cars casting headlight beams.
But in the meantime, GT6 is still on a pretty potent system, and is a good platform for a lot of added goodies. But next year, I want a major reason to fire up that PS4. As good as GT6 is, it's on an old console and it shows.
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- Tayeedz1
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- ProjectWHaT
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I've always turned the music off first thing when I get a game.
mister dog
(Banned)
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
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The man's got a point
Although i don't know how GT6's soundtrack is; Kaz seemed in love with this Japanese teen rock music in a lot of trailers, so i hope the Jazzy atmosphere remained?
Well, yeah, it has a very jazzy atmosphere, except for racing, of course.
But it's music that I could listen to ALL DAY -3-
- 4,382
The only music you need while racing is the intake, exhaust and engine sound coupled with the tires howling and squealing.
Dat.. about... it!
Dat.. about... it!
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
I do like the ocasional jazzy drum & bass When I drive though
- 4,382
^^ What? Aren't PS4 games region free this time too, just like the X1?
I've never had issues with GT's menu music... the other tunes.. I used to have them playing during replays at times, but never in the middle of a race.
I've never had issues with GT's menu music... the other tunes.. I used to have them playing during replays at times, but never in the middle of a race.
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
Nah I meant for the Sound Engineer positions available at PD. Mainly because there's an email on the first post for this thread now.
- 4,382
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
Since I like sharing clips. I've played PGR4 a lot when I visited my cousin on holiday, sadly I heard the sounds on some weak TV volume. Now hearing them on a headset on Youtube is blowing my mind now....
Callaway Sledgehammer, dat turbo dose
Some Ferrari Action
And lastly, a video from my old Youtube channel, from that same Holiday in Zambia , imagine how straight pipes could sound in GT!
Another I took, Toyota Supra in Johannesburg.
PD, please live up to the hype
Callaway Sledgehammer, dat turbo dose
Some Ferrari Action
And lastly, a video from my old Youtube channel, from that same Holiday in Zambia , imagine how straight pipes could sound in GT!
Another I took, Toyota Supra in Johannesburg.
PD, please live up to the hype
- 4,382
I got PGR4 just a few months back actually, as I had liked reading the reviews. Well... not overly impressed with the visuals or physics. The sounds... they are sooper dooper!
I think the following specific sound should be improved:
1. "vacuum cleaners" exhaust as everyone has mentioned should be replaced with more realistic sound.
2. The intake sound, upon upgrade, should sound meaner than standard.
3. Engine, intake, exhaust sound should be recorded separately from at least 2 sources. Not the same one sound source like in the current game.
Regarding #2, and #3, I actually drive a Lexus IS350 with both FSport intake and exhaust add on (hence my screenname FSport IS). The exhaust starts to growl from 2500 RPM to 3500 with a low vrrooom sound and @3500 + it growls with higher pitch. The intake only kicks in @3500 RPM or higher. I'm not saying all cars have to follow this pattern. Each car has its unique pattern with the sound varying at different RPM. It would be awesome if they capture this.
watch this
4. Sound of car bumping into each other is like two wooden boxes hitting each other. It should be metal crashing sound.
5. The tire squeak sound is too simplistic. 3a-the volume of the sound that should be adjusted depending on the condition of the available traction so it actually varies in different time and not flat level like in game. 3b-Different tires compounds gives out different warning sound when push to the limit.
6. Brake does squeak sometimes in real car which is not modeled in game. If they can add this in, that is a plus.
7. When real cars go over bump, you might hear squeak from the windows or body frame especially when the car is getting old. If they can add this in, that is a plus.
I will have to gives props to PD for modeling the sound with consideration of the distance. If you notice, depending on different views (interior, chase etc), the sound is reflected differently. It is not perfect but quite good enough.
I have a Master degree in engineering but not specifically sound engineering. I would volunteer to help them on a short term project for free if I specialize in sound. Anyways, I hope the sound engineers would take some of my points above into consideration.
1. "vacuum cleaners" exhaust as everyone has mentioned should be replaced with more realistic sound.
2. The intake sound, upon upgrade, should sound meaner than standard.
3. Engine, intake, exhaust sound should be recorded separately from at least 2 sources. Not the same one sound source like in the current game.
Regarding #2, and #3, I actually drive a Lexus IS350 with both FSport intake and exhaust add on (hence my screenname FSport IS
). The exhaust starts to growl from 2500 RPM to 3500 with a low vrrooom sound and @3500 + it growls with higher pitch. The intake only kicks in @3500 RPM or higher. I'm not saying all cars have to follow this pattern. Each car has its unique pattern with the sound varying at different RPM. It would be awesome if they capture this.watch this
4. Sound of car bumping into each other is like two wooden boxes hitting each other. It should be metal crashing sound.
5. The tire squeak sound is too simplistic. 3a-the volume of the sound that should be adjusted depending on the condition of the available traction so it actually varies in different time and not flat level like in game. 3b-Different tires compounds gives out different warning sound when push to the limit.
6. Brake does squeak sometimes in real car which is not modeled in game. If they can add this in, that is a plus.
7. When real cars go over bump, you might hear squeak from the windows or body frame especially when the car is getting old. If they can add this in, that is a plus.
I will have to gives props to PD for modeling the sound with consideration of the distance. If you notice, depending on different views (interior, chase etc), the sound is reflected differently. It is not perfect but quite good enough.
I have a Master degree in engineering but not specifically sound engineering. I would volunteer to help them on a short term project for free if I specialize in sound. Anyways, I hope the sound engineers would take some of my points above into consideration.
Last edited:
- 4,382
^^ Hefty demands. Good luck!
Doubt it. But here's hoping.
Doubt it. But here's hoping.
- 8,721
I think the following specific sound should be improved:
1. "vacuum cleaners" exhaust as everyone has mentioned should be replaced with more realistic sound.
2. The intake sound, upon upgrade, should sound meaner than standard.
3. Engine, intake, exhaust sound should be recorded separately from at least 2 sources. Not the same one sound source like in the current game.
Regarding #2, and #3, I actually drive a Lexus IS350 with both FSport intake and exhaust add on (hence my screenname FSport IS
watch this www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpn8PTyNgj4
4. Sound of car bumping into each other is like two wooden boxes hitting each other. It should be metal crashing sound.
5. The tire squeak sound is too simplistic. 3a-the volume of the sound that should be adjusted depending on the condition of the available traction so it actually varies in different time and not flat level like in game. 3b-Different tires compounds gives out different warning sound when push to the limit.
6. Brake does squeak sometimes in real car which is not modeled in game. If they can add this in, that is a plus.
7. When real cars go over bump, you might hear squeak from the windows or body frame especially when the car is getting old. If they can add this in, that is a plus.
I will have to gives props to PD for modeling the sound with consideration of the distance. If you notice, depending on different views (interior, chase etc), the sound is reflected differently. It is not perfect but quite good enough.
I have a Master degree in engineering but not specifically sound engineering. I would volunteer to help them on a short term project for free if I specialize in sound. Anyways, I hope the sound engineers would take some of my points above into consideration.
Nice post!
Some comments:
1. The "vacuum cleaner" sound is rarely due to the exhaust, except in the case of the generated (!) flow noise on stock cars (which is really rather realistic).
2. The game does not have intake sounds at all - this is indeed a major issue.
3. The sources are separate, but without intake, there's little real benefit (except the sense of space given by the directional exhaust sound). That separation caused issues in previous games because the 3D mixing favoured some sources over others, and it changed if you looked behind etc. Now they use fixed, bespoke mixes for certain situations (i.e. interior views) to alleviate that. There is also an issue with gamers not setting their audio output correctly for their hardware, in respect of the audio channels, but that was also partly alleviated by the "remix".
* The interior shots in your video highlight this issue magnificently; GT will not sound correct in the interior views without a properly represented intake sound, for practically any car. I would personally love, and fully believe that games are screaming out for, a level of customisation that would grant me the possibility of changing that exhaust from the Nissan VQ-like sound it has on the stock manifolds and y-pipe to something a little more raucous, or anything I could think of.
4. This is a matter of perception. Car collision sounds are dull when heard at low volume. I don't know that the aesthetic change by doing Hollywood-style collision sounds, for example, is really a good idea.
5. I personally like the tyre sounds, I think they're the best I've ever heard in any game; but they could still do with improving, for sure. Volume options would probably fix most of the complaints.
6. Brake squeal has to be done right. I hate the way it's implemented in most games. I think Kaz would agree, and it's probably why he wants people who can "make" sounds, rather than rely on recordings (which are repetitive and contribute to listener fatigue).
7. The same applies here. I have had some ideas for some time on how to do this "properly", and have successfully prototyped a few of the precursors to a full "solution", but it's a lot of work to tune it etc. pCARS has a nice little filter-based embellishment that works quite well, though, but I think it only responds to the engine sound. This would automatically improve collision sounds, too.
Their source rendering is superb, and will come into play once they get the source fidelity itself up to par.
- 4,382
Nice post!
Some comments:
1. The "vacuum cleaner" sound is rarely due to the exhaust, except in the case of the generated (!) flow noise on stock cars (which is really rather realistic).
2. The game does not have intake sounds at all - this is indeed a major issue.
3. The sources are separate, but without intake, there's little real benefit (except the sense of space given by the directional exhaust sound). That separation caused issues in previous games because the 3D mixing favoured some sources over others, and it changed if you looked behind etc. Now they use fixed, bespoke mixes for certain situations (i.e. interior views) to alleviate that. There is also an issue with gamers not setting their audio output correctly for their hardware, in respect of the audio channels, but that was also partly alleviated by the "remix".
* The interior shots in your video highlight this issue magnificently; GT will not sound correct in the interior views without a properly represented intake sound, for practically any car. I would personally love, and fully believe that games are screaming out for, a level of customisation that would grant me the possibility of changing that exhaust from the Nissan VQ-like sound it has on the stock manifolds and y-pipe to something a little more raucous, or anything I could think of.
4. This is a matter of perception. Car collision sounds are dull when heard at low volume. I don't know that the aesthetic change by doing Hollywood-style collision sounds, for example, is really a good idea.
5. I personally like the tyre sounds, I think they're the best I've ever heard in any game; but they could still do with improving, for sure. Volume options would probably fix most of the complaints.
6. Brake squeal has to be done right. I hate the way it's implemented in most games. I think Kaz would agree, and it's probably why he wants people who can "make" sounds, rather than rely on recordings (which are repetitive and contribute to listener fatigue).
7. The same applies here. I have had some ideas for some time on how to do this "properly", and have successfully prototyped a few of the precursors to a full "solution", but it's a lot of work to tune it etc. pCARS has a nice little filter-based embellishment that works quite well, though, but I think it only responds to the engine sound. This would automatically improve collision sounds, too.
Their source rendering is superb, and will come into play once they get the source fidelity itself up to par.
Hmm, whatchu think about FM4 and FM5 tyre squealing sounds?
- 8,721
Not heard much of 5 in action, but they were reasonably communicative in 4; just a bit over-done for my tastes. It seems there is a stigma against anything "high-pitched" in US American culture, though.
The tyre sounds are obviously sampled, and the pitch shifting is annoying in both games. You can hear the sampling in GT6, too, but the pitch shifting is transparent. Not sure how they did that.
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
So @Griffith500 , according to Kaz the best thing to do at this point in time would be to acquire a Sound Engineer that can "make" sound. Is the reasoning behind this because once you 'make' a sound, it's very easy to manipulate the sound for what ever purpose you choose as opposed to a sample because working with it gives very limited options. Once you go over that limit you'll end up with a messed up sound.
I'm sure that since there's individuals that can replicate sounds from things like a Coke can and Electric guitar then it's plausible to find an engineer that can 'make' sound.
Am I on the right track?
I'm sure that since there's individuals that can replicate sounds from things like a Coke can and Electric guitar then it's plausible to find an engineer that can 'make' sound.
Am I on the right track?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 8,721
Pretty much, yes. I don't really understand their use of the terminology, though: "Sound Engineer" seems to mean too many things. But then I'm not one, so that probably doesn't help!
Anyway, it means you build the sound up from approximations to the phenomena that create the real sound (which obviously implies you need know what those phenomena are). Then you can tweak all of those components separately based on the associated changes to the underlying physics, such as cam timing, firing order, exhaust tract changes etc.
Some of the components are "additive", like playing two musical notes simultaneously, others are compound, modifying some other sound ("modulation"). It's the compound effects that are the most flexible and expressive (and important), and are the hardest to "reverse engineer" and, arguably, to control (that's why a sound physical basis is important, to inform how to constrain that expression within realistic limits). With samples, you can only reverse engineer; that is, any process you apply to samples that's not "backwards" in that sense is effectively wasted potential. Going forwards, using physical modeling, the correct behavior just falls right out. Once the model is correctly constructed, working, and covers just enough of the pertinent phenomena, that is...
It works both ways, too. I finally figured out how to get a (particular) straight six sound from a V6 today, because of some fundamental "tools", in the form of a basic understanding of why each engine configuration sounds the way it does. I'd originally thought it would be obvious / easy given the similarity, but there was some nuance I was missing. The lesson is that, if you get the physics right, the sound should follow.
I wonder what it would mean if there were an easy way for anyone to do that, say, by glossing over all the slightly tedious busy-work with a nice result-oriented UI? And then apply that to their own, real-world cars!
- 4,382
Not heard much of 5 in action, but they were reasonably communicative in 4; just a bit over-done for my tastes. It seems there is a stigma against anything "high-pitched" in US American culture, though.
The tyre sounds are obviously sampled, and the pitch shifting is annoying in both games. You can hear the sampling in GT6, too, but the pitch shifting is transparent. Not sure how they did that.
Reasonably communicative? Overdone you say?
Hmm, I find them far better than GT's and they get the job done for sure. You know when you're on the edge.
Anyhooo.... *whistles*
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