Sound Update (PD is now hiring! + Email!)Answered

[Griffith500]

Reasonably communicative? Overdone you say?

Hmm, I find them far better than GT's and they get the job done for sure. You know when you're on the edge.

Anyhooo.... *whistles*

That's OK, then.

I know when I'm on the edge in GT6. :shrugs:

 

[TayeezSA]

FM5's tire sounds are just.... Ugh... Not implying that I'm a GT fanboy or anything.

GT6's tire sounds are pretty good but need work.

DriveClub in its current state has if not the best tire sounds!

 

[Speedster911]

And GAS? Now those are top notch without a doubt!

 

[TayeezSA]

And GAS? Now those are top notch without a doubt!

I agree with this, they sound really good in GAS. Even that tire chirp you get when you shift from 1st to 2nd in some cars is quite an achievement. I'd like them to be a bit more versatile though but they're still good..

Onto another topic,

The Skyline GTR R33 in GT6 sounds above average but man, I want it to sound extremely close to the real deal

Trust me, this sounds better in real life and I even got a taste of driving it.... into a garage and revving it



Turbo noises, spooling and the unique sound of an RB. The sample right now is alright but it could be better.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I agree with this, they sound really good in GAS. Even that tire chirp you get when you shift from 1st to 2nd in some cars is quite an achievement. I'd like them to be a bit more versatile though but they're still good..

It's those small details and the integration of sound, visual and tactile feel through the wheel that makes racing in Grid Autosport more immersive to me than GT6 in spite of it's lower graphic quality and less than sim physics. You see, hear and feel the shift from first to second and you have to be conscious of when and where you do it because it affects the balance and attitude of the cars, some more than others. Small details make a big difference when it comes to immersion.

 

[Speedster911]

Big difference indeed.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

It's those small details and the integration of sound, visual and tactile feel through the wheel that makes racing in Grid Autosport more immersive to me than GT6 in spite of it's lower graphic quality and less than sim physics. You see, here and feel the shift from first to second and you have to be conscious of when and where you do it because it affects the balance and attitude of the cars, some more than others. Small details make a big difference when it comes to immersion.

Agreed. Assetto Corsa includes a lot of these sounds even if some of it sounds a bit too digital, but it adds so much to the realism. I love hearing the chassis squeek and jolt, the grit and marbles hitting the undertray, cold brakes squeeling, the car bottoming out, the transmission flexing, the backfire going BANG! and crackling which echoes throughout the environment unlike GT's tiny single pop sound. There's more, and it all adds up, these all give the cars life and character.

 

[Griffith500]

It's those small details and the integration of sound, visual and tactile feel through the wheel that makes racing in Grid Autosport more immersive to me than GT6 in spite of it's lower graphic quality and less than sim physics. You see, here and feel the shift from first to second and you have to be conscious of when and where you do it because it affects the balance and attitude of the cars, some more than others. Small details make a big difference when it comes to immersion.

That's because it's all scripted, like canned animations vs. procedural animations; next-to-none of it is exclusively physics-driven. They did the same thing with the most recent NFS game.

Yes, you potentially get a great cohesion between all the aesthetic effects, but it's not actually possible for a game where the physics are meant to be first and foremost, unless all the aesthetic effects are physics driven. As such, a game like iRacing is the standard bearer for the approach games like GT should be taking, not GRID.

The reason is that, for the kind of game that GT is supposed to be, the player's inputs, not the artists' handiwork, should define the experience. There's a lot of work to be done on that front, and it shouldn't be avoided just because it's "difficult".

 

[Johnnypenso]

That's because it's all scripted, like canned animations vs. procedural animations; next-to-none of it is exclusively physics-driven. They did the same thing with the most recent NFS game.

Yes, you potentially get a great cohesion between all the aesthetic effects, but it's not actually possible for a game where the physics are meant to be first and foremost, unless all the aesthetic effects are physics driven. As such, a game like iRacing is the standard bearer for the approach games like GT should be taking, not GRID.

The reason is that, for the kind of game that GT is supposed to be, the player's inputs, not the artists' handiwork, should define the experience. There's a lot of work to be done on that front, and it shouldn't be avoided just because it's "difficult".

Seeing as how the game is more and more geared to the very casual player, I don't think that very casual player would really care if the some of the effects were canned or procedural, so long as it led to a more enjoyable and immersive experience.

 

[TayeezSA]

Seeing as how the game is more and more geared to the very casual player, I don't think that very casual player would really care if the some of the effects were canned or procedural, so long as it led to a more enjoyable and immersive experience.

Or I think what @Griffith500 is saying is get it done, and get it done properly and properly in such a way that it can surpass even what the casual player can think of.

 

[FSportIS]

I agree with @Griffith500 and @TayeezSA.

I'm not sure if it is just me, I only finds the simulating game more enjoyable and immersive when it gets real. It is when the car is handling like a real car and when the sound is recorded as real as possible based on actual real cars sound--not artist's replicating work. Grid sound is good but doesn't really cut it yet.

 

[Griffith500]

Seeing as how the game is more and more geared to the very casual player, I don't think that very casual player would really care if the some of the effects were canned or procedural, so long as it led to a more enjoyable and immersive experience.

No, there are different kinds of experience. A driving sim is built on immediate feedback, and it's the subtlety and expression of that feedback (never mind the supposed realism) that makes or breaks such games.

I've described this before, the aspect of "feel" that PD seem to focus on. Such hands-on interaction does not really suffer from the plebeian effect; anyone can appreciate it, even if they can't explain why.

Also, procedural is the opposite of canned. Check it out, in the general sense; but the specific example I used is the best analogy for sound: procedural animation.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No, there are different kinds of experience. A driving sim is built on immediate feedback, and it's the subtlety and expression of that feedback (never mind the supposed realism) that makes or breaks such games.

I've described this before, the aspect of "feel" that PD seem to focus on. Such hands-on interaction does not really suffer from the plebeian effect; anyone can appreciate it, even if they can't explain why.

Also, procedural is the opposite of canned. Check it out, in the general sense; but the specific example I used is the best analogy for sound: procedural animation.

I find GT lacking in feel, most of the time it feels very dead through my G27. Many of the little subtleties you feel in other games from full on sims to simcade games are lacking in GT. Drive over sausage curbs in many cars at speed and you feel nothing as if it's not even there. In GridAS you drive over a cobblestone street and you feel a small but noticable vibration in the wheel, as if you're driving over cobblestones. You drive over a curb and you know you've driven over a curb. You brake too hard and lockup the front end and you know it because they wheel goes light.

You say that GT is focusing on "feel" but I say they aren't doing a very good job of it, at least in my experience. Most of the time I know what is happening with the car not from subtle feedback or sound cues (other than tires) but simply from knowing what the car is supposed to be doing and from what I see on the screen and hear in the tires.

Others may have a different experience, I take it T500 users get some pretty good feedback from the wheel.

 

[Griffith500]

I find GT lacking in feel, most of the time it feels very dead through my G27. Many of the little subtleties you feel in other games from full on sims to simcade games are lacking in GT. Drive over sausage curbs in many cars at speed and you feel nothing as if it's not even there. In GridAS you drive over a cobblestone street and you feel a small but noticable vibration in the wheel, as if you're driving over cobblestones. You drive over a curb and you know you've driven over a curb. You brake too hard and lockup the front end and you know it because they wheel goes light.

You say that GT is focusing on "feel" but I say they aren't doing a very good job of it, at least in my experience. Most of the time I know what is happening with the car not from subtle feedback or sound cues (other than tires) but simply from knowing what the car is supposed to be doing and from what I see on the screen and hear in the tires.

Others may have a different experience, I take it T500 users get some pretty good feedback from the wheel.

There are other sources of feedback than just whatever peripheral you choose, otherwise the game would be unplayable on a pad. My G25 seems more disconnected in GT6 than it did in GT5, though, but I think that's the result of a higher latency, mostly. It's useful to remember that GT appears to use a clever hack for its physics simulation, still, so the FFB is more likely to be an interpretation of the chassis dynamics rendered as steering force, rather than steering force extracted from the physics directly.

Force feedback is an interesting one, because it's typically full of canned effects. That's fine, in its place. The best FFB I've experienced was the modified (community made) version released for GPL. It doesn't have all the effects (rumbles, shakes etc.), and the track geometry is a bit low-res on most of the tracks, especially vanilla, but it was so responsive and communicative nonetheless. The main reason for that is because the author disabled filtering (feedback is immediate) and carefully controlled force curves (whose inputs were extracted directly from the physics engine) to avoid spikes; the FFB was about two-to-three times more responsive as a result, and GPL was already very good (physics-only, no fluff, no nonsense; same as iRacing). This is what we should be aiming for in a game like GT; on PS4 the track detail should be there to make it really sing.


When I said feel, I meant really how the driver feels overall, just driving. If there's not enough going on for you, that's fine - you're well catered for elsewhere. But don't impose your arbitrary tastes on everyone else, please.


Now, about feedback: sound and graphics are equally important in that endeavour. Naturally, I believe sound should be driven in the same way that I think FFB should: by the physics only. Because when you take away some of that expression, all that is left is that which the artists had in their heads and were able to commit to a preset. Games like this are about reactive systems, not saved-states.

It's like GTA's animation system (licensed-in: "Euphoria") vs. most others. Yes, it looks goofy at times (part of the fun of gaming, in my opinion), but the emergent expressiveness it demonstrates most of the time far outweighs that, and it's a massive step in the right direction overall (for a game about systems, like GTA is). Sound should be treated in the same way, like iRacing's drivetrain modeling.

 

[Le_Manuz]

i laughed hard when i saw that they are hiring staff for sound department
in summary,
if anyone goes there, he have to make restrictions on how the sound is rendered or make it as an option
maybe the realistic sound from where the camera is is a good idea but at least give the option to choose the one we want
camera pov sound (default, bumper, roof, interior, engine bay, rear)
find what's wrong with the sound rendering engine when playing or make a new one
sort and refresh the sound libraries for every car
where are the clutch, brakes and transmission sounds !

then every one in Gran Turismo world will approve building up a statue of you

 

[FoRiZon]

That is RFactor, game from 8 years ago. I have one and its sounds awesome. One reason i play RFactor besides GT.

 

[SergioFilho]

can anyone tell me if there is the question of the type:
Improve volocidade simulation with greater reality
ie, the faster volocidade more sense?
GT6 200 km seems so slow
do you agree?

 

[TayeezSA]

can anyone tell me if there is the question of the type:
Improve volocidade simulation with greater reality
ie, the faster volocidade more sense?
GT6 200 km seems so slow
do you agree?

I agree. The best way to improve this would be wind and tire noise in my opinion The greater the intensity of those and it gives a sense of speed.

Like today I took the G27 out for a spin with the Ferrari F40. I turned off the race display info and didn't bother looking at the speedometer , I went on a straight thinking I'm going at 150km/h but instead according to the speedo I was going at 250km/h !!! It didn't even feel like it!

 

[Rafael F]

I still don't really understand the part 3 of the sounds answer on the blog.
If I'm not mistaken, Kaz said that they are on the mid of the process to improve the sounds, but, at the same time, he says they are hiring anyone with some knowledge because they have no idea of how to do it themselves.

 

[TayeezSA]

I still don't really understand the part 3 of the sounds answer on the blog.
If I'm not mistaken, Kaz said that they are on the mid of the process to improve the sounds, but, at the same time, he says they are hiring anyone with some knowledge because they have no idea of how to do it themselves.

The way I see it, they have a method now but they're figuring out how to perfect it. So they're pretty much looking for people to help them perfect and at the same time getting more man power so they can get the sounds done before GT7 comes about.

I get the whole under-staffing thing. It's like trying to run Watch_Dogs on Max Settings with a Celeron. Rather get more man power , train them to follow a standard and Bob's Your Uncle.

 

[SergioFilho]

KAZ be deluded with his own unfinished work
or he deludes us with this thought?

 

[TayeezSA]

My issue with PD sometimes is that they try to be too perfect sometimes. Like I felt in GT5 that they bit off more than they could chew, that's when things went a bit shaky.

 

[JHB434]

My issue with PD sometimes is that they try to be too perfect sometimes. Like I felt in GT5 that they bit off more than they could chew, that's when things went a bit shaky.

Perfection has nothing to do with promising content that does not exist. If they had shipped GT6 as it was without the lies about what was in it, they'd have been fine as it IS a good game as is. If they ever did decide to make the non-existent (so-far) content and added it, they'd have been heros for adding new stuff.

 

[fortbo]

I agree with this, they sound really good in GAS. Even that tire chirp you get when you shift from 1st to 2nd in some cars is quite an achievement. I'd like them to be a bit more versatile though but they're still good..

Onto another topic,

The Skyline GTR R33 in GT6 sounds above average but man, I want it to sound extremely close to the real deal

Trust me, this sounds better in real life and I even got a taste of driving it.... into a garage and revving it



Turbo noises, spooling and the unique sound of an RB. The sample right now is alright but it could be better.

That GTR is running an after market exhaust though so it will sound different.

 

[TayeezSA]

That GTR is running an after market exhaust though so it will sound different.

Funny enough when I compared the sound to a factory GTR, the exhaust just made the car louder but tones really to me stayed the same

 

[Johnnypenso]

delete

 

[TayeezSA]

Has anyone noticed that the Ruf Yellowbird sounds pretty close to the original?

 

[stuff1138]

Has anyone noticed that the Ruf Yellowbird sounds pretty close to the original?

Mein gott! I just noticed I haven't purchased that car yet...I wouldn't know what the original sounds like to compare but it's one of the most fun and unforgiving to drive in the GT series.

 

[Speedster911]

Has anyone noticed that the Ruf Yellowbird sounds pretty close to the original?

Well that's good news, step in the right direction.

Are the shifting sounds still the same?

 

[TayeezSA]

@stuff1138 @Speedster911 Boom

GT6- It does sound better when you play the game live though



IRL . Dat blowoff noise doh




and it's a touched up standard. Needs more Premium