Staying on this side of the Atlantic

[Diego440]

Hmmmm i'd have to agree with you to some extent BUT, crime is pretty high in america, I just wouldn't feel safe to live there.

Well Bee, the UK is the second country in the world with the highest Assault victims, burglaries, car thefts, convictions and frauds per capita... Hey did you know Venezuela is the 4th country with the highest rate of murders per capita? OK; enough off-topic

Diego...
Don't give me that...
You made major generalizations about myself, my country-men, and my country as a whole.

You insult us because of personal interactions between yourself and unknown members then expect me not to take offense?

I did not insult YOU as a whole... as a matter of fact I didn't insult you at all, Kent. I'm part American, so insulting you would be insulting myself. The generalizations you refer to (and I hate to repeat myself on this) were not generalizations at all; I stated pretty clearly that I do not consider all Americans aggressive, nor do I consider all aggressors to be American. Some of my best friends are American, I went to college in the US and for some time lived there and considered staying there for good. I also said I did not mean ANYTHING on the post to be an insult.

Oh no.
I do take offense and I will continue to do so until you can address the real problem at hand- The Members Who Offended You- Not the country they came from.

The members who offended me.... see, the thing is that speaking of them would be going off-topic... partly because the thread would be become a whining session and also because the purpose of the thread is not the offensive people themselves, but the nature and reason behind the offensiveness, and the common denominator, which seems to be the origin.

If you really really really must know who I've been offended by, I'd say M5Power, mainly. But as I said in the post where he and I flame each other, I wouldn't take that matter forward for two main reasons: 1) it was essentially a misunderstanding, product of his stubborness and my taunting, and 2) it would be giving the matter much more importance than it really deserves... i mean, I said something he didn't like, he flamed me, I flamed him and he got angry enough to leave the forums. Case closed.

I've had similar experiences with other people on GTP and the common denominator has been their origin, which is why I opened this thread. However, neither of the arguments I've had with other people have gone to the level the argument with M5Power did. Of course, the safest (and sanest) response would be to settle my differences privately with said user, which whether I have or haven't done is not pertinent to this thread. The question I asked was if my perception seemed correct: that most aggression was coming from the States.

If you consider this thread to be offensive or it goes against the AUP and TOS, by all means, Kent, feel free to close it. Matter of fact, I've been debating as to which Mod I should send the request to do so, if the arguments escalated to a certain point. I guess it all goes back to Duke's comment on American culture; it's funny when Americans make fun of themselves, but very unfunny when foreigners make fun of the US.

 

[Lee]

Yeah i really do think this thread should now be closed before it gets even more out of hand.

Peace guys PEACE!!

 

[Taurine]

Well I'm really dissapointed that this thread turned out the way it did.

It really is saddening that the very topic this thread was about caused it's demise.

But I will say that I do see where you are coming from Diego, not as far in depth as you but I do agree with what you say. It's always been my unpopular opinion which sadly gets brushed aside far too often.

 

[a6m5]

I'm sure there are few members who's lost it, here and there(myself, included). At least, it's nowhere near the level of hostility in the Creation vs. Evolution thread. It's just sad in there.

 

[Blake]

The question I asked was if my perception seemed correct: that most aggression was coming from the States.

Have you considered that most members of these forums are from the US?

Blake

 

[Swift]

I guess it all goes back to Duke's comment on American culture; it's funny when Americans make fun of themselves, but very unfunny when foreigners make fun of the US.

I wouldn't say that we make fun of ourselves. I'd say we rip on our gov't a lot(constitutional right) but when it comes down to it, the majority of us have a good sense of patriotism and don't insult each other on basis of origin. Political stance maybe but not origin.

 

[xXSilencerXx]

What gets me going is that from my expirience on here is that I see alot of bashing of America by Euorpeans but rarely anything good said about America. I don't go around bashing other countries because I'm jealous of them,don't agree with them or anything else. I actually try to see it from there point of view before degrading them.

 

[Diego440]

Have you considered that most members of these forums are from the US?

Blake

Yes, actually, Sukerkin suggested that initially and I agreed with him.

I wouldn't say that we make fun of ourselves. I'd say we rip on our gov't a lot(constitutional right) but when it comes down to it, the majority of us have a good sense of patriotism and don't insult each other on basis of origin. Political stance maybe but not origin.

Well (do NOT take this out of context... we have enough discussions as it is right now), it's funny when say, an Southern-Mississippi resident says something like "I'm sorry I can't type well, I'm from the South"... but it wouldn't be funny if I said "He can't type well because he's from Southern-Mississippi", or from the US for that matter. That's what I'm implying there.

I know about the political stance. My mom is half American and full republican, while I'm more of a pro-democrat (US Political system, in case anyone's wondering), and you should hear our discussions. Believe it or not, even US internal policies are discussed externally.

What gets me going is that from my expirience on here is that I see alot of bashing of America by Euorpeans but rarely anything good said about America. I don't go around bashing other countries because I'm jealous of them,don't agree with them or anything else. I actually try to see it from there point of view before degrading them.

Good policy. I actually have defended the States a lot, although not on GTP. The anti-American sentiment in Spain (and in most of Europe) is very strong right now, and I'm always out there defending your sorry asses! But seriously, I think most of the America-bashing lately has to do with Dubya and the war.

 

[ledhed]

I get your point... but I don't think think (enlighten me if you must) there is a way to tell it in a softer tone that would not raise victimization feelings. I said I would not point fingers, because although I've had some aggression directed at me, I don't really want to make it such a big deal. The lack of examples is not to blame it on others, but to move the attention from the aggressions themselves towards the overall attitude.

Sorry if you feel a victim about it... it's not meant like that. That's the problem when you express something... someone's always going to take offence, and someone's always going to assume you're talking about them. If you'd rather I say specifically who have offended me, I will; but I don't think that would merit a whole thread. I know, I speak of Americans and obviously, I'm talking about you, but I later said that I definitely don't mean all Americans. That would be taking it out of context.



I got the joke, ledhed. But I sort of expected something like that. Don't get me wrong, I thought it was funny enough... MOF I like ironies and sarcasm very much. But just so you know, Spain isn't in Ohio... it's in Europe. Madrid is in new York, though

But Toledo is in Ohio ! How did move ? The spaghetti monster maybe ? Not to mention Madrid ....Maybe Zorro did it ...I know he's retired out in California ..but maybe he's got a son . could of been the wind mill guy too ...you never know .

 

[Flame-returns]

What?

 

[Diego440]

But Toledo is in Ohio ! How did move ? The spaghetti monster maybe ? Not to mention Madrid ....Maybe Zorro did it ...I know he's retired out in California ..but maybe he's got a son . could of been the wind mill guy too ...you never know .

Yep, you're right. And being that Toledo is about an hour from Madrid... perhaps we should study the map more closely. And after closer examination, there is a Madrid in Iowa and in Nebraska, and a New Madrid in Missouri... can't you guys get original names for cities?

 

[K_Speed]

Very interesting topic. I lived in europe and the US.

All the tention between USA and the rest of the world is came and still comes from Bush and his Iraq war.

A lot has changed in Germany concerning america. Pretty much anyone in high schools here diss the US. They wear anti bush t-shirts, talk **** on americans etc etc. This was 100% not before the war.

Lots of the kids are just going with the flow. They dont even nkow what the war is about, they dont know **** really, they just say Bush sucks and that was it.

The re-election of Bush was a high point. the europeans jsut couldnt believe how "stupid" americans are. After he got re-elected and I went to school the next day people just came to me and talked to me about how it is possible that americans re-elected him. I couldnt answer them.

My friends do make stupid statements about me coming fomr the US, makin fun, whatever.

But at the end of the day they wear american clothes, listen to american music, eat american food and would give anythign to once go to the US.

 

[K_Speed]

In these years there have just been too many differences in political oppinons between the US and the rest of the world. US lost its certain dignity to europe.

 

[Duke]

Hmmmm i'd have to agree with you to some extent BUT, crime is pretty high in america, I just wouldn't feel safe to live there.

Uhhh, yeah, OK, sure, whatever.

You see my point about why Americans get offended so much?

I guess it all goes back to Duke's comment on American culture; it's funny when Americans make fun of themselves, but very unfunny when foreigners make fun of the US.

I didn't say that.

What I said is it gets offensive when people from other countries have a smug and self-righteous attitude towards us when they are just as guilty of many of the same things we are.

Hypocrisy sucks in all forms, and a large amount of it is directed toward the US these days.

 

[Young_Warrior]

50% of all jokes are true.

 

[Flame-returns]

80% of all statistics are false.

 

[Blake]

Uhhh, yeah, OK, sure, whatever.

You see my point about why Americans get offended so much?

What? He’s just saying that all Americans are gun-toutin’ theives… I don’t see the issue?






()

Hypocrisy sucks in all forms, and a large amount of it is directed toward the US these days.

I’m not suggesting that it’s ok, but that’s to be expected when you live in the most powerful country in the world.

Blake

 

[Zrow]

A lot has changed in Germany concerning america. Pretty much anyone in high schools here diss the US. They wear anti bush t-shirts, talk **** on americans etc etc. This was 100% not before the war.

So question to all those in American high schools: how much of your day is spent discussing European countries and how much they suck?

Though really, I couldn't care less about what German high school students think of me.

 

[Zardoz]

...Though really, I couldn't care less about what German high school students think of me.

As if it was about you, or any of us other than GWB and his inner circle.

The current super-spike in anti-American sentiments around the globe is because of them. Don't kid yourself that its anything else.

 

[Diego440]

I didn't say that.

I was sort of ellaborating on something you did say.

You try being called a stupid, fat, lazy, incompetent, tasteless, bigoted, arrogant bully for approximately 25-50% of all interaction you have with people from other countries.

That's because we're all stupid, fat, lazy, incompetent, tasteless, bigoted, arrogant bullies.

The point is... it's funny when you say it; because you're making fun of yourself and not making anyone look bad. But, if I were to say it, directed at you, you'd be offended. Clear?

What I said is it gets offensive when people from other countries have a smug and self-righteous attitude towards us when they are just as guilty of many of the same things we are.

Hypocrisy sucks in all forms, and a large amount of it is directed toward the US these days

And to make another point clear to everyone: I've never intended this thread to become a bashing place for the US, so don't accuse me of insulting Americans, because I haven't.

In the future I'll try to avoid taunting anyone, regardless of where they're from. That's the moral of this thread; or at least it seems like it. The subject is clearly not intended for everyone as it gets pretty difficult not to seem hypocritical when making statements about other people's attitudes.

 

[Zrow]

As if it was about you, or any of us other than GWB and his inner circle.

The current super-spike in anti-American sentiments around the globe is because of them. Don't kid yourself that its anything else.

Hey! But wait...didn't he say something...

talk **** on americans

couldnt believe how "stupid" americans are

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. Don't kid yourself to think that none of their hostilities are directed at American citizens.

 

[Solid Fro]

As if it was about you, or any of us other than GWB and his inner circle.

The current super-spike in anti-American sentiments around the globe is because of them. Don't kid yourself that its anything else.

What is the alternative of the US being the "bully" of the world?

What happens when Bush leaves office in 2008, is the anger truly aimed at Bush or is it at America?

 

[Zardoz]

Hey! But wait...didn't he say something...

Quote:
talk **** on americans

Quote:
couldnt believe how "stupid" americans are

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. Don't kid yourself to think that none of their hostilities are directed at American citizens.

What are you doing? Why the selective phony "quotes" taken completely out of context? Here's what he actually said:

All the tension between USA and the rest of the world is came and still comes from Bush and his Iraq war.

A lot has changed in Germany concerning america. Pretty much anyone in high schools here diss the US. They wear anti bush t-shirts, talk **** on americans etc etc. This was 100% not before the war.

Lots of the kids are just going with the flow. They dont even nkow what the war is about, they dont know **** really, they just say Bush sucks and that was it.

The re-election of Bush was a high point. the europeans just couldnt believe how "stupid" americans are. After he got re-elected and I went to school the next day people just came to me and talked to me about how it is possible that americans re-elected him. I couldnt answer them.

My friends do make stupid statements about me coming from the US, makin fun, whatever.

But at the end of the day they wear american clothes, listen to american music, eat american food and would give anythign to once go to the US.

My sister and several of my friends do a lot of international travelling. They all report the same thing: People in other countries were a bit suprised that we elected him the first time, but they can't comprehend how we did it again four years later. Certainly you've all seen this:

Sure, we'll always be resented just because we're the last superpower left standing, like I said before, and our support for Israel will always make us a pariah thoughout the Muslim world.

But electing GWB twice is another thing altogether. That has taken anti-Americanism to a new level. Is it any surprise that some Americans on this forum get a bit testy about the abuse they get?

Of course it isn't. The point is, though, that it has reached this level (that is intolerable for some) because of who we have elected to lead our government. Think of it as "chickens coming home to roost".

 

[a6m5]

I'm sorry for going off-topic, but in the first election, didn't Al Gore win the popular vote? Which I think meant the American "people" did't choose George W. Second time around, I think Democrats blew it big time. Howard Dean got himself recognized as a freak-loser, so they came out with Kerry. Kerry seemed like a nice enough guy, but he didn't have much to say and only supporters he had were Democrats and Anti-Bush people.

 

[Solid Fro]

Yeah, Gore did get the popular vote, but it's all about the Electoral College. You know, checks and balances.

I can go on for days about how the Democrats lost in 2004. Besides the major things like Kerry's flop flopping, his misadventures in Swift Boats, and weak stance on foreign policy, I believe it came down to 9/11. You are with us or against us.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Just to point out, i know many people who cant belive Bush got voted in a 2nd time. But my knowledge on America's govt isnt very good and most of the things i know come from the media, which for those of us who are smart will know not to trust it as the whole truth.

Hm, Why do Americains get so offended so easily? I find it is true indeed, it is very hard to have a debate about any issues regarding USA and not have some Americans get totally offended and take everything personally. To answer this question one has to look at what they have to put up with. No one can tell me that a single country gets bashed more than America. How easy is it to find an Anit-America thread or argument compared to an Anit-Australian or even Anti-UK. But still we must go deeper to find out why more people choose to bash America and not bash other countries who can be much worse. Media.... I for one can say that 90% of what represents America in the media in my country is negative!!. Im sure its similar in many other countries except of course America, where it will most likely be more good than bad, which may or may not show all the facts. Propaganda would be quite big in America im sure. Now i know America has its faults but im sure they are not 90% bad!, but sadly thats how many will see it. Just because its in the media all the time means it happens very regulary and is the majority right? Certain types of behaviour can be declining but if it gets more and more attention in the media people will be fooled into thinking it is occuring more and more frequently. But still one has to ask the question why, why is America portrayed to be such a big bad country in the 'rest of the world' media? You could just about bet your left nut that if 70% of all media shown outside America was good, then the atitude towards our great Superpower would be a hell of a lot better. Now it doesnt help America's cause when foreign people meet an American who totally fits and backs up all those lovely stereotypes (that Americans love ) that are shown in the media at their home country.

Of all of this, you can understand why some Americans get so jumpy about issues or arguments against their beloved country. They have to deal with it so often, more often than people from other countries. Plus as many know GTP has the most American's here then anyother country. This doest help out either. Say out of the 700 UK members, only 10 get 'fired' up and get easily offended, this gives us a 1.5% or so. Now say their are 3000 Americans and 45 get angry and easily offended, This seems like many more but it is still only 1.5%.

Another reason why American's can get offended easier than other country's is that American's are one of the most patriotic countries that i know of, and when they have to deal with so much 🤬 about their country which is more than any other country, being so patriotic only fires them up more, which leads to them taking offense and thus responding.

Of all of this the main factor/question remains, Why is America represented as such a negative/bad country in the 'rest of the world' media? I believe this is responsible for many of the Anti-American arguments.

With our media today it is extremely difficuilt to get the whole facts. Remember, there is ALWAYS two sides to a story and before you can jump to conclusions and make up your mind you must analysis BOTH sides with no bais, something which I found is hard for many people when the issue is so close to their heart.

Their has been many cases where ive totally changed my opinoin on subjects after hearing BOTH sides. To many people only hear what they want to.

While i dont agree with a few things that goes on in America i dont belive they should be bashed as much as they are. I just hope that American's have an open mind when others bash them and actually think about whats being said. We get a totally different veiw from the 'outside' looking in.

Open mind, and consider both sides.

This is my .02cents worth 👍

 

[Max Powers]

This is my .02cents worth 👍

Wow, .02 cents? You must have cut a penny into 50 pieces!

On topic: It doesn't bother me too much if you bash my country, just be sure you have your facts straight before you do it.

 

[Solid Fro]

...just be sure you have your facts straight before you do it.

Which they never do.

 

[Gen.]

Shouldn't be taking much attention to those type of people anyway.

They usually provoke things to indulge their own egos and be apart of the "crowd".

 

[Small_Fryz]

Which they never do.

It is extremely difficuilt.

You guys in amercia dont get the whole truth, and Neither do I.

I bet we get totally different representations though.

Is very hard to argue about such things and have 100% fact.