Stock car race comparison/challenge

[Smallhorses]

You're clean. Touching the wall is allowed as long as 2 wheels are still on track. Wallriding (as interpreted by me) is when you use the wall/barrier in a corner to avoid breaking and sustain a higher speed.

I'd also say that If one accidently goes off the track (without crashing), but not to take a shortcut and no advantage made of it, let's say at the ring enduro, that will be acceptable. The rules are made to avoid cheating and make for equal conditions for everyone.

If touching actually means crashing into the wall at 300km/h it would probably be wise to try again

Hi Toronado, above is a quote from hispeed that he posted in reply to an inquiry I made about grazing the wall ever so slightly exiting a bend in a Clubman cup race. Seeing as your GVS endeavour was an accidental off, and you say it cost you rather than gained you time, the I'd say you were probably OK. I'd say the same was probably true of AI instigated voyages off track, you can't be held accountable for the AI punting you off course, and lets face it they don't often try to avoid contact when possible! The final say, as ever, belongs to hispeed though.

 

[hispeed]

Ok folks.

It's getting quite technical here, but to keep it simple; follow the rules. If you are pushed off the track by AI cars, you're not to be blamed. But if you got yourself into that trouble, i.e. by rushing at top speed into a corner and getting pushed out because of that, restart.

If you skid off the track on your own, do not crash, and can ceep up racing, It would be like in an actual race -> therefore it's OK.

PS: what did I think when I made this thread............ A simple life (starring Paris & Co.)

 

[Smallhorses]

That's what I thought!
Well, I've not done any racing so far today, but have had a major edit of the race list, and I've now included the enormous list from jdw a few pages back, even if there are no stats for the cars.
I've also alphabetised the Manufacturers race section to make it easier to find things.
All this should change next time I send hispeed the text file for updating.
In the meantime keep the races coming & I'll keep sticking them in my list. 👍

A quick question for hispeed too. (You'll be getting of these today! ) You mentioned keeping the list to the top 5 entries for each race.
There are several on the list now with more entries than that. Do you want me to start trimming them off? I suggest removing the lowest point entries first and maybe keeping them all together in a separate post. For instances where there are more than 5 200pt entries, we can keep them all since they're special!
Just asking 'cos the list is getting really long! Otherwise, we can keep it as is, and just keep adding to it. What do you think?

 

[Tornado]

If you skid off the track on your own, do not crash, and can ceep up racing, It would be like in an actual race -> therefore it's OK.

So what you are saying is that if I screwed up on my own accord but didn't hit anybody, lost time but just continued on, than the race is legit?

 

[Smallhorses]

So what you are saying is that if I screwed up on my own accord but didn't hit anybody, lost time but just continued on, than the race is legit?

Um. Yeah! Post away Toronado!

 

[Tornado]

Thanks Smallhorses for clearing that up.
Anyways:
Endurance races: Tokyo 300km
Honda S2000 LM / FR/ Tires F/R: R1/R1/ BHP: 321 (9015.2 miles on car ) Oil change)/ Weight: 1050 kg /PWR: 3.271/ 200 A-Spec Points
against this line-up:
Nissan Motul Pitwork Z (JGTC) ('04)
Mazda RX-7 LM Race Car (+12.618s)
Opel Astra Touring Car
Alfa Romeo 155 Touring Car
Honda Castrol Mugen NSX GT
A much better race considering the AI cars had much, much higher straightaway speeds than my car did and they also could take the large half-circle faster than me as well. The trick was in the high speed swooping turns and my superior tire wear.

 

[Smallhorses]

Toronado did you mean this to be your Grand Valley submission?
You've submitted the same car & different lineups for the Tokyo Endurance race twice tonight!
All the questions & answers in between seem to have confused issues!!!
if you've managed 2 sittings of 200pts at Tokyo in the same night though!

 

[Tornado]

No, it wasn't supposed to be the GV 300 KM. I reviewed about a 3rd of the replay for that race and I noticed that I whacked the Honda NSX-R pretty hard on the 7th lap of the race and passed him because of it, so I withdraw that entry. I really did the other Tokyo 300KM race yesterday. I just wrote everything down about it (competitors, A-Spec points, PWR, etc.). I did the newer Tokyo 300KM from about 7:45 to 11:00 today. I just wanted to note that this was a much more fun race. I'll go after Grand Valley tommorow.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

well, I guess I can't use that S2000 for those races anymore,....I'll find something different
anywho, I got to work on the Type R challenge last night & got most of them--the 99 Integra Type R will get 200 points with S1 tires, but I couldnt win with that(just letting others know so they can try)----I did get them with newer, more powerful civics & Integras though---you'll notice a few diff cars because I had trouble with some & needed more power
so let's see if I can get this right:
Twin Ring Motegi:
Honda Integra Type R (DC5) 04 / S1/S1 /225HP / 1170KG /175 A-Spec Points

Autumn Ring:
Honda Civic Type R (EP) 04 / S1/S1 / 218HP / 1190KG /182 A-Spec Points

Suzuka Circuit:
Honda Civic Type R (EP) 01 / S1/S1 / 215HP / 1190KG /184 A-Spec Points

Driving Park Course:
Honda Civic Type R (EP) 01 / S1/S1 / 215HP / 1190KG /184 A-Spec Points

so far I didnt win the Tsukuba race... probly get it tonight--I'll Try
Just remember if you try this to make Sure the AI cars are all either Integras-Civics-or Accords (good luck beating the NSX's) so, with that said I'll leave you with words of a very good friend of mine: I'LL BE BACK<-------Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

[Smallhorses]

Beginners hall: Sunday cup Race 4 - Special Stage 5
Car: Honda Beat Version F '92 (6.2mile used, no oil) / MR / 63HP / 760kg / 12.1kg/HP / 157 A-spec points

vs. Mazda Demio Sport '03, VW Golf IV GTI '01, VW Lupo GTI '01, Scion xB '03, Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00

A little disappointed I couldn't find anything in my garage to make 200pts here, I'm sure both the Prius' could, but I've used them already , and I don't want to re-use a car....yet!

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 1 - Tokyo
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 2 - Suzuka East Course
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 3 - Seoul
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 4 - Fuji 90
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 5 - Motegi-Super Speedway
Car: Toyota ALTEZZA Race Car '01 / FR / 321HP / 1000kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 6 - Laguna Seca
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 7 - Hong Kong
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 8 - Twin Ring Motegi Road Course
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 9 - Fuji 2005GT
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Japanese races: All Japan GT Championship race 10 - Suzuka Circuit
Car: Honda S2000 LM Race Car '01 / FR / 334HP / 1050kg / R3/R3 / 200 A-Spec

Still trying to get race 5--Twin ring motegi speedway,.....they always seem to get past me in the last turn--aaagggghhh .176 sec. is the crulest joke I've ever heard! (actually, .138 was worse) - I may need a better car....
I found the better car! so I added it to this post, Cause it's easier....the Altezza has much more downforce--I had to take 3 off the rear & 1 off the front because they tried to only give me 196! I showed them.... also got the final race at Tsukuba---type R challenge soooo...

Manufacturers Races: Honda-Type R Challenge Race 5 - Tsukuba
Car Honda Civic Type R (EP) '04 / FF / 218HP / 1190kg / S1/S1 / 182 A-spec

 

[Tornado]

Endurance Races: Grand Valley 300KM
Honda S2000 LM / FR/ Tires F/R: R1/R1/ BHP: 320 (9358.2 miles on car ) Oil change)/ Weight: 1050 kg /PWR: 3.281/ 200 A-Spec Points
Against this line-up:
Mazda RX-7 LM race car
Opel Astra Touring Car
Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car
Toyota Denso Supra GT
Nissan Xanavi NiSMO GT-R GT
Margin of victory: 8.794s over Mazda RX-7 LM Race Car
A fun race, especially since we both went through tires at the same speed and ran nearly identical laps. The best part? I didn't punt the NSX-R out of the way on accident this time.
Also, some more Lotus fun (if you can call stomping on the brakes every 7 seconds "fun"):

Endurance races: New York 200 miles
Lotus Esprit Turbo HC '87 /Oil changed/ tires f/r: S2/S1 / MR / 229HP / 1146kg / 5.0kg/HP / 200 A-spec points
Against this lineup:
Shelby Series 1
Lotus Esprit Sport 350
TVR Cerbera Speed 6
Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1
Proto Motors Spirra
Margin of victory: 2.871s over Lotus Esprit Sport 350
It really wasn't that close of a race. It was mostly because I was dead on tires for the whole last lap because I chose not to pit in, the Sport 350 got off of the last turn better than I did and he was drafting me down the final straight.

 

[Smallhorses]

A quick thinking period resulted in this:

Tire-rules: Stock tires or harder tires. Race cars can equip S2 or S1 if the track demands it (But those would probably not be hard races...)
State in your post if you used other than stock tires.

Hi LeadSlead#2 just wanted to call your attention to this post on page 1 from hispeed as I noticed a lot of your entries, while certainly impressive aren't on "stock" tyres. I'm not picking on you or anything, but I wanted you to be aware of the full rules of what's allowed for "stock" races. I also wanted to mention it for everyone's attention before we get too many entries and the list becomes swamped with races that aren't really stock. (Even if they are bloody close!!! 👍 We all know, that with a few exceptions, any 200pt race is generally pretty damned tough, and certainly worthy of kudos anytime! )

There are a few race cars that come stock with R3s, and a couple of road cars that come with S3s. The tyre debate is one of the biggest discussions here and has been through several revisions. The reason R3s are mentioned for race cars is because of those that come with R3s stock, its a little misleading from post #1, but if you look at the quote above, it makes things a little clearer. I'm sure hispeed would be happy to confirm this. The main point for everyone to bear in mind is the phrase "Stock tires or harder tires"

I'm still putting your entries in the list, but I've put the tyre combinations after the car information, like you'll notice there are some other entries by other folks listed the same way. Certainly for the endurances it's necessary to move from S2s to S1s if the field are on those tyres, and why the exception for the Laguna Seca Endurance was created.

I may be a little premature with this, as I don't own the S2000 LM or Altezza Touring Car yet, so I'm not sure if they're amongst the "comes stock with R3" exceptions that I mentioned. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll go get my hat!
Hope this doesn't cause offence, but as I said, its a clarification, as I understand it, for everyone's benefit, so we're all playing on the same field.
Look forward to everyone's continued race postings.

P.S. List is up to date again, and will be e-mailed later for hispeed to approve when Norway wakes up!

By the way LeadSlead#2 where are you located?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

no offense taken smallhorses---all I can say is that I saw it say R3-S1 tires for race cars.....plus i noticed that street cars are S2-S1 only,... i'm not quite sure why we can't use N tires on street cars if we can use S tires on race cars, honestly, It doesnt bother me anyway because I hate N tires anyway. I do believe your right about the altezza race car coming with R1's & I know the S2000 does,...I might be able to beat them with R1's----(I won two with R2's later on & they werent tooooo hard) so maybe I'll do that next.

also, does anyone have any suggestions for the polyphony digital cup? i have about 84-86 points for all of them, and I'd like more

by the by, I am VERY unfortunatly stuck in florida<-----S#!thole
where would I rather be? anywhere north of here preferably where I grew up---where the back roads resemble the Nurburgring----yes! Pennsylvania!

 

[Smallhorses]

Exactly, that's kind of what post #1 would imply, and that's what you did, so you'd stuck to the rules as you could see them, and your entries will remain on the list. 👍 Your El Capitan race is within the rules & hence you're a legitimate member of Club 200!

I wanted to point out that as the thread had progressed, the tyre rules had been up for discussion and lead to the current rules, but it requires reading almost all of this thread to find the bits & pieces! Thought it would be a good idea if I tried to tie it all together and clarify things a little in a single post for the benefit of us all, and especially new recruits.

D'oh, just realised I forgot to e-mail hispeed the updates. Will do it when I get in from work.

Sadly from what I can gather, I haven't done the PD cup myself yet, the Dodge Ram is the only thing that'll get 200pts there, against the right lineup and that's blatantly taking advantage of the bug associated with that vehicle!

 

[LeadSlead#2]

i take it the Ram gets more points than another vehicle with the same weight & hp?

 

[Tornado]

Go to a family cup with a bone stock Dodge Ram. It puts you against K-cars and crap like the Fiat Panda. So, the Ram probably has a PWR of like 5, but it is 60 A-Spec points to race something with a PWR of 16.

 

[hispeed]

Oh my. Why do cars even have tires? LOL.
I know I said stock or harder tires in some post, but why this "hubble-like" scrutinizing gaze all the time..
The rules in #1 are what counts until altered, period.
Most regular cars come with S2 tires, most (or all) race cars come with R2 or R3 tires, rally cars come with R1 tires (the lord only knows for what reason?).

To be competitive with your "stock" car within the limits set by the rules, and not to succomb to the "rookie lust" for upgrading to max power and R5 tires, is what the rules are made for.

Of course when I made this thread, I didn't even reflect on the fact that some race cars come with R2 and some with R3, but If the rules are to be changed, lot's of entries have to be changed as well. Certainly the original idea was that absolutely no change was to be made with any car, but much have changed since... Oil because engines wear, harder tires because of different lenghts of races, R3 tires on all race cars because some race cars come with it stock.

That's all folks. Speak up now or remain silent (oh bollocks, nobody ever remains silent in this site, but at least this thread was only dumped by admins 2 times (to a grave at the somewhat obscure on-line races thread that I can't even find anymore) before I could convince anyone that it had general interest, which it actually had!!)

Drive on, have fun

 

[Smallhorses]

Drive on, have fun

Sorry hispeed, I guess that ^ really is the most important point of all!
List is coming your way tonight!

i take it the Ram gets more points than another vehicle with the same weight & hp?

Yeah, its ridiculous. Enter the Sunday cup. It has a WPR of 7.0kg/HP and gets 200 points. Enter in anything else with 7.0 WPR and you'll get about 10 points!
Look at all the other 200 pt entries for Sunday cup. Once you drop below a WPR of about 12 or 13kg/HP the points drop off from 200 rapidly!
Similarly in the Sport Truck races, a 7.0 kg/HP Ram will get 200 points per race.
The Chevrolet SSR which has 289HP compared to Ram's 349HP and weighs nearly as much, has a WPR of 7.8kg/HP and gets....40 points per race. Go figure!
The Ram is a bug! In my opinion it belongs in the Truck races only. But hey, its a useful points gainer for mopping up with later on!

 

[LeadSlead#2]

well, I'm gonna go out on a limb here,...& say the Ram is the ONLY way to get 200 points in the polyphony cup----I hope not, but most likely is----anybody wonder if polyphony did this on purpose? we have to know by now they like playing games......
I don't know exactly what Hispeed meant by "speak now, or forever hold your peace", so here's my two cents, for what they're worth---I would have to say race cars R1-R3 (heck, you can't use the softer ones really ever anyway) and other cars S1-S3 maybe only using Rally cars in rally events?just throwing it out there.

This is a general interest thread & I can prove it
Try This: Amuse S2000 GT1---Oil Change / S3 Tires---Tokyo 246 Endurance--200 miles!
I tried & lost----it'll be the hardest 130 point race you'll ever try--harder than some 200's

 

[TeamWilliams F1]

ok....like smallhorses said.....this is unbelievable but trust me....i did it.

Mercedes SLK230 Kompressor '98/El Capitan/and im not sure on the HP....like around 200....no mods it was at 172 i did an oil change....BAM!!! it was at like 230

 

[LeadSlead#2]

why don't you just check your garage?
im still waiting for one to show up at the dealer

 

[hispeed]

I don't know exactly what Hispeed meant by "speak now, or forever hold your peace", so here's my two cents, for what they're worth---I would have to say race cars R1-R3 (heck, you can't use the softer ones really ever anyway) and other cars S1-S3 maybe only using Rally cars in rally events?just throwing it out there.

Some racecars are quite crappy compared to overall to racecar standards, i.e. the old Honda race car, and the civic race car and perhaps a few others. That's why it's even interesting to allow S tires for race cars. For rally cars, the in-game tire rules will most often determine the choice of tires (Dirt or S tires, and perhaps only a few possible R-tire wins), but It'll be fun to nail some races against high-end race/road-cars with a stock rallycar on R1's.

me no understand above post?

PS: Really hope the weather is considering a better behaviour for you folks in Florida.

 

[Smallhorses]

ok....like smallhorses said.....this is unbelievable but trust me....i did it.

Mercedes SLK230 Kompressor '98/El Capitan/and im not sure on the HP....like around 200....no mods it was at 172 i did an oil change....BAM!!! it was at like 230

That's not just unbelievable, that's just nonsense.
I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. The lowest possible (and therefore least worn out) mileage Mercedes SLK230 Kompressor available in the NTSC version of the game is available on days 274 - 280 in week 40. It comes with 19659.8 miles on and has 174HP. Changing the oil gives 192HP. I know this because I have that car. I've tried it, I have the car in the garage at the moment, with no oil changed. I've just been to the GT Auto center & changed oil, which leaves it with 192HP. Sadly I don't have a digital camera or I'd post some screenshots. Anyone else tried this & have means of posting pictures?
WPR of 6.9kg/HP. Current best for this race is 4.8kg/HP followed by a couple of 4.6kg/HP entries.
Your oil change guy slipped a stage 1 NA tune & racing chip on there for you too! That'd leave you with 229HP on the garage screen.
I fully believe you've beaten this race with this car. I just don't believe its been done in a stock car with just an oil change, especially not an oil change that gains you 56HP. That's a 25% gain from an oil change! No way. You have the world's most 🤬 up copy of GT4 if that's true!
When you figure out what mods you've left on the car (go to your garage screen, hit start and look at the settings for the car) then let us know.
As I said elsewhere, beating El Capitan Enduro in this car for 200 points is a great achievement, and deserves recognition, however, its not a stock race if your SLK has 230HP!
Anyone up for putting their SLK (stock, oil changed, on S1 tyres) through it's paces at El Capitan? Who knows? I may end up with egg on my face if someone like Toronado or route_66 can pull this off!
My full discussion with TeamWilliamsF1 about this can be found in LeadSlead#2's Slowest Cars Used For The Endurance Races thread in the Race Reports Forum, where he lists the AI lineup he faced.

 

[Tornado]

Hmmm... It doesn't make any sense. Maybe if he was using different horsepower units? I'm not sure I could win the race with the SLK.
Anyways:
Japanese races: Japan 80's Festival race 1 - El Capitan
Toyota MR2 1600 G '86/ MR / S2/S2 / BHP: 128 (6.2 KM)/ Weight: 1120 KG/ PWR: 8.750
Japanese races: Japan 80's Festival race 2 - Special Stage 5
Toyota MR2 1600 G '86/ MR / S2/S2 / BHP: 128 / Weight: 1120 KG/ PWR: 8.750
Japanese races: Japan 80's Festival race 3 - Tsukuba
Toyota MR2 1600 G '86/ MR / S2/S2 / BHP: 128 / Weight: 1120 KG/ PWR: 8.750
Japanese races: Japan 80's Festival race 4 - Apricot Hill
Toyota MR2 1600 G '86/ MR / S2/S2 / BHP: 128 / Weight: 1120 KG/ PWR: 8.750
Japanese races: Japan 80's Festival race 5 - Suzuka
Toyota MR2 1600 G '86/ MR / S2/S2 / BHP: 128 / Weight: 1120 KG/ PWR: 8.750
Am I the only one to try this race with the heavier (oddly enough, I noticed PD managed to switch the weight values for this car and it's Supercharged brother, as it weighs as much as the G-Limited Ver. did in real life and vice versa), lower powered brother of the '86 Mr. 2?

 

[Smallhorses]

Wow Toronado you don't cease to amaze do you?!!!!
I'm assuming they're all 200 pt races right? Just based on the PWR ratio!
Which lineup were you going against? As I recall getting 200pts with the Supercharged version at Suzuka was tricky on the stock tyres, nevermind the non-supercharged version! I found everything the AI drove was much much faster down the fast part at the back of the course and it was a struggle to keep them behind!

 

[Tornado]

I found that it didn't matter so long as the Nissan Something EXA La Version or whatever it was called wasn't in the race. The key was in the individual tracks. For example, I could win a GT500 race in a Corvette Z06 if I was at Clubman, El Capitan or Suzuka. It was still very dificult to do Tsukuba because there was no particular turn where my car completely outran the AI cars like there was on all of the other tracks.

 

[Smallhorses]

I know what you mean, I can certainly take on most things at El Capitan & Suzuka East Short course in something way underpowered, since the AI suck at those! Similarly Infineon is pretty good that way, as is Laguna Seca.
I'm not bad at Suzuka, took lots of learning to get the Gold S-Licence there in the Nissan, but the fact that the back side of the track is so much faster its difficult to stay ahead of the AI after you've exploited the fact that they're slow through the twisty section at the beginning of the lap and passed them there!

I'm not fond of Tsukuba either, still pondering what to try the 9hr enduro in.
Talk about stingy rewards too, 100,000Cr for 9hrs of racing!

 

[Tornado]

I'm not fond of Tsukuba either, still pondering what to try the 9hr enduro in.
Talk about stingy rewards too, 100,000Cr for 9hrs of racing!

Espicially 9 hours of racing at a track as "exciting" as Tsukuba in layout. Try an Alpine. I was considering it and had a good race going with the A310 until boredom set in and I quit the race around hour 4.

 

[Smallhorses]

Weeeeelll, I would, but being as I've got this crazy, not using cars more than once until I hit 100% mission going on, & I've already used the A310 to win the A110, and used the A110 for a tremendously tailhappytastic ride at one of the Yosemite rallies, I'm going to have to come up with something else. I have ideas, but I'm lacking the inclination to endure 9hrs of Tsukuba (or is that Suck-Uber?!!!! ) at the moment! I love endurance races in general, and don't consider 24hrs of the 'Ring an endurance, more a prolonged enjoyment , but 9hrs of Tsukuba for a 12th of the prizemoney of a 24hr race? Hmmmmm. That really is endurance!
I'm looking forward to it like I look forward to forgetting to wash my hands after chopping habanero peppers, then rubbing my eyes! !!!! Guess what I just did? !!!!

*edit* OK, pain is gone now, and I can see again! Can get back to what I originally came in for! Mini-vantastic!
Beginners hall: FF Challenge Race 4 - Grand Valley
Car: Renault Avantime '02 / FF / 205HP / 1741kg / 8.5kg/HP / 162 A-spec points

vs. 17th lineup after reset, (what is it about number 17 being the magic lineup?!!! It's 20pts higher than any lineup out of the 1st 20! Couldn't it be #2 like for the 4WD Challenge?!!! Especially when it takes several attempts to complete cleanly!)

*edit* Last of the FF challenge, got bored & frustrated trying for 200pts here, so I'll come back for the dropped points later on. In the meantime, this'll have to do.
Beginners hall: FF Challenge Race 5 - Twin Ring Motegi
Car: Toyota Celica GT-R (ST183, 4WS) '91 / FF / 148HP/ 1310kg / 8.9kg/HP / 148 A-spec points