The 20 tracks issue is really bugging me

[paulpg87]

Ok, so which 'locations' are the traditional Gran Turismo tracks at?

They're not, they are fictional circuits at fictitional unspecified locations. Which is why locations can only refere to tracks not countries.

Maybe there is a location named Pdland o smething like that for the original tracks like high speed ring .. for original tracks in cities like NY.. they have a specific location.

Imo 20 is a joke.

 

[paulpg87]

1. Eiger - Switzerland
2. London - England
3. High Speed Ring - Unknown
4. Fuji - Japan
5. Suzuka - Japan
6. Daytona - USA
7. Nürburgring - Germany
8. Tuscany - Italy
9. Indianapolis - USA
10. Madrid - Spain
11. Top Gear - England
12. Le Mans - France
13. Tsukuba -Japan
14. Tokyo R246 - Japan

That's 8 or 9 locations. Where are the other locations? GT4 only had 3 further country 'locations' The whole 20 locations as seperate countries just isn't a well thought out argument.

they can add in the game several new circuits and rally tracks so you can reach easily 20 location.

 

[Goldrusher]

GT4 & TT locations:

1. Le Mans
2. Nürburg
3. Fuji
4. Tokyo
5. Suzuka
6. Motegi
7. Tsukuba
8. Monaco
9. Laguna Seca
10. Sears Point
11. Hong Kong
12. Paris
13. Assisi (Citta di Aria)
14. Capri (Costa di Amalfi)
15. Seoul
16. Yosemite (El Capitan, Cathedral Rocks)
17. Grand Canyon
18. New York
19. Las Vegas
20. Seattle
21. Alps (Chamonix, Swiss Alps, Eiger)
22. Tahiti
23. Valencia
24. Polyphony Valley

GT5P & GT5 locations:

1. London
2. Madrid
3. Tuscany
4. Indianapolis
5. Daytona

Weather infobar locations:

1. Spa-Francorchamps
2. Zolder
3. Shanghai
4. Magny-Cours
5. Monza
6. Imola
7. Estoril
8. Jerez
9. Kent (Brands Hatch)
10. Silverstone

Of the GT4 tracks, I can see them dumping Tahiti. But nothing else.
Add the GT5 tracks we know so far and you end up with 29 "locations". Why didn't they say "30" then ?

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Ignore post.

 

[Tapey]

It probably will be just 20 tracks with roughly 70 variations. I know it's frustrating and seems like a low number (especially with PD not detailing exactly what they mean) but the numbers tie in to other games and are comparable to the tracks/variations numbers from Shift and Forza 3.

In the case of Forza 3 I think they have 20-25 actual tracks. They reach a total of 100 variations though because some of their courses have as many as 8 or 9 layouts.

When it comes to rally stages in GT5, I imagine you will have one location such as the Swiss Alps, that might have say 5 rally stages or something, and then again for another location with a few stages again. Likewise with Daytona Speedway from GT5P, that has the oval variation which will be for Nascar races (as we saw in E3 trailer) and then there's the central course for other races. I imagine they will have other tracks with Nascar variations that double up as tracks for normal races too.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Tapey KY confirmed 20 locations & 70 tracks.There are 70 tracks with variations to some of them & i guess 90% will be reversed too.

 

[Tapey]

Tapey KY confirmed 20 locations & 70 tracks.There are 70 tracks with variations to some of them & i guess 90% will be reversed too.

Oh ok well I'm still a bit unsure. I'm hopeful that it is 70 tracks with god knows how many variations, but I'm worried something was lost in translation or that we're misunderstanding something. I'm gonna stick to thinking it's just 20 tracks, if it turns out to be 70 then it will be a pleasant surprise

 

[Zathra5_]

Lets just hope that one of the interviews clarifies this. There is still the rumoured track editor to think about and DLC. With close to 1000 cars already, I don't see cars being a huge draw for DLC. With only 20 tracks, I do see tracks being a huge draw for DLC. 20 tracks is fine to start if more are coming. If all the tracks in GTpsp are not in GT5 to start with, I can't see them not being offered as DLC later.

 

[paulpg87]

Lets just hope that one of the interviews clarifies this. There is still the rumoured track editor to think about and DLC. With close to 1000 cars already, I don't see cars being a huge draw for DLC. With only 20 tracks, I do see tracks being a huge draw for DLC. 20 tracks is fine to start if more are coming. If all the tracks in GTpsp are not in GT5 to start with, I can't see them not being offered as DLC later.

after 5 years 20 tracks is not fine to start.. 20 tracks .. they gotta be kidding me.

 

[Dave A]

People are digging a hole for themselves, it's obviouse that each location is talking about a specific track venue and not a country. The only possible exception I can see is maybe on the rally tracks if they're done as proper stages, we might see several rally stages classed as one location.

 

[Goldrusher]

it's obviouse that each location is talking about a specific track venue

I refuse to believe that.
We already saw 14 "track venues". So if they add the following:

Grand Valley
Midfield
Deep Forest
Trial Mountain
Autumn Ring
Apricot Hill

That means all of these won't be in ?

New York
Seoul
Hong Kong
Seattle
Paris
Amalfi
Aria
Monaco
Cathedral Rocks / El Capitan
Grand Canyon
Laguna Seca
Valencia
Infineon
Motegi
etc.

 

[opladener]

20 Tracks with 70 variations is ridiculous.
How are they going to make 3 Variations of every Track ?
I can see variations of Fuji, Suzuka, maybe even Nürburgring (Südschleife would be awesome !) But i really don't see 3 variations of HSR or the other fantasy tracks.

I really, really hope locations mean "real life locations" and the fictional tracks are added on top of that. OR they are going the $$$ way and release "track packs" as DLC

 

[FLASH48]

20 locations, not 20 tracks!! And over 70 variations!(meaning tracks!)

 

[opladener]

Thats what i hope for, but some people still believe its gonna be 20 tracks, of which there are 70 variations.

 

[blinky77]

I'll believe the track list is this low when I see an official list.

 

[Dave A]

I refuse to believe that.

Then refuse to believe it, but that's what we've been told.

I'm expecting 20 different track venues, any more is a bonus and I'd expect the rest to be released when completed and to be available via DLC. Look at Forza 3, that's got something like 19 different track venues. It's not unreasonable or like 20 tracks is suddenly a stupidly low number. GT4 was the second GT on the PS2 remember, so they already had the tracks built for GT3 and just made new ones. It's logical that GT4 would have more locations than GT5 will.

I just think everyone is setting themselves up for a fall by reading thier own ideas into what is a pretty clear and straightforward peice of information.

 

[Bank]

@ Dave A

Damnnnn man.

Chances are, you'll probably be right man.
Because the world always finds a way to disappoint us and crush our dreams - in the end.

Am I right? *holds up beer glass*

[this wasn't a sarcastic reference at anything you said. It sounds like it lol]

 

[Delta-64-]

Then refuse to believe it, but that's what we've been told.

I'm expecting 20 different track venues, any more is a bonus and I'd expect the rest to be released when completed and to be available via DLC. Look at Forza 3, that's got something like 19 different track venues. It's not unreasonable or like 20 tracks is suddenly a stupidly low number. GT4 was the second GT on the PS2 remebmer, so they already had the tracks built for GT3 and just made new ones. It's logical that GT4 would have more locations than GT5 will.

I just think everyone is setting themselves up for a fall by reading thier own ideas into what is a pretty clear and straightforward peice of information.

If i remember right, PD built a completely new engine for GT4 than they had for GT3, so they still had to remake all the GT3 tracks therefore your point isnt that valid.

I really think there is a confusion and something wasn't translated right. I dont think 5 will have less tracks than the other games. Even the PSP game has 35 unique tracks.
I think they are talking 20 Locations, (countries, regions, or whatever) and 70 unique tracks with a possibility of having a couple hundred variations.

We dont know what is meant by 20 locations. It is quite possible that they could reach 20 countries if they have actual rally races, not circuits, but point to point. Rally is all over the world.

 

[daus26]

20 locations, not 20 tracks!! And over 70 variations!(meaning tracks!)

I think the "variations" on the 70 is what gets most people, including me. If we can get a solid proof that "variations" mean tracks, then I think people would be less worried. Also the fact that PD rarely combines their track number with a location number, add up that much more fuel to the fire. In the past, including GTPSP, it has always been tracks/variations. Perhaps GT5 will be the first to mention location, but that we don't know. Let's hope you're right.

 

[Dave A]

If i remember right, PD built a completely new engine for GT4 than they had for GT3, so they still had to remake all the GT3 tracks therefore your point isnt that valid.

Eh!!! No i think my point is pretty valid. Why would building a new game engine mean they have to remodel all the tracks they already have models for? PD could have used GT1's track models in GT4 if they wanted, they'd look crap but as long as they were compressed to whatever file format they used for GT4's tracks they'd fit into the game.

The PSP has 35 tracks because again, it is re-using GT4's track models only using lower textures.

I'm not trying to be a doom merchant, but everything is pointing to it being 20 odd tracks yet people are just not believing it simply because they don't want to. I wanted mroe than 20 tracks, but after recent revelations that Forza 3 won't have all that many I think maybe to expect a lot more is unreasonable. Sure you can argue Forza 3 hasn't taken as long to develop, but track wise at least, they've just re-textured the Forza 2 tracks, so they've haven't actually managed to create that many new tracks in 2 years. If you do the math, it works out at a similar track to time ratio as PD.

 

[Delta-64-]

Eh!!! No i think my point is pretty valid. Why would building a new game engine mean they have to remodel all the tracks they already have models for? PD could have used GT1's track models in GT4 if they wanted, they'd look crap but as long as they were compressed to whatever file format they used for GT4's tracks they'd fit into the game.

The PSP has 35 tracks because again, it is re-using GT4's track models only using lower textures.

Look, im no game developer but i do know a little about how game engines work and programming work.
When a new engine is used, they cant just simply use the old code and put it into the new engine. If they want to use the same track, they have the design, but they have to completely reprogram it from the ground up.
It is evident throughout GT4 that they used a new engine.
Compare Laguna Seca from 3 to GT4. It was completely redone.It isnt just a "prettier" version.
Thats why it took almost 4 years between GT3 and GT4. They built a new engine and had 4X's the cars and around twice the tracks.
My point is im not worried about the number. I bet 90% of GT4's tracks will return with quite a few new ones debuting in the series along with some stage rally's to go with it. I dont know why everyone is freaking out about this.

PS i know someone is going to ask why development for GT3 was short when they had to build a new PS2 engine. Well, if you remember, GT3 wasnt concieved as the next gran turismo in the series. It was called GT2000 and wasnt intended to be a full GT experience. In terms of numbers it was a step back from GT2. It only took around 2 years cause there was only a fraction of cars and tracks compared to GT2 and 4.

 

[Dave A]

No I don't think the tracks were re-done, they used new textures. Thats why from what I've seen, the bumps and straight edges are all in the same places. They even used exactley the same monkey in exactley the same place on exactley the same tree on Trial Mountain.

At the end of the day you said that because PD made a new engine for GT4 they had to remake all the tracks for GT4. The truth is that even if they did for some tracks "which I haven't seen any evidence of", they didn't have to. It's a hell of a lot easier converting a track from one file format to another and to match the code than to build a whole new track from scratch. In fact, if you already have a good enough track model and GT3's were good enough, then it makes every bit of sense to just convert them it save a lot of time and money. If you have any evidence then I'm more than happy to see it, and if your evidence is good proof thet you're right on this matter then fair play to you, otherwise there is nowhere this discussion will get us.

 

[Tapey]

I'm not trying to be a doom merchant, but everything is pointing to it being 20 odd tracks yet people are just not believing it simply because they don't want to. I wanted mroe than 20 tracks, but after recent revelations that Forza 3 won't have all that many I think maybe to expect a lot more is unreasonable. Sure you can argue Forza 3 hasn't taken as long to develop, but track wise at least, they've just re-textured the Forza 2 tracks, so they've haven't actually managed to create that many new tracks in 2 years. If you do the math, it works out at a similar track to time ratio as PD.

Actually as far as I know, not all tracks in Forza 3 were made by Turn 10. They outsource development to other small studios to make tracks for them. For example in Forza 2, that Snakes track which had about 10 variations was made by another development studio, not Turn 10.

I think the difference is Polyphony Digital does everything themselves.

Also regarding the tracks from GT3 to GT4, a new engine makes no difference. The tracks are 3D models that are imported into the game, they don't need to be remade. That's why the special editions of GT5P with La Sarthe and Nurburgring look so much like the GT4 versions, they just imported the 3D models into the engine, and added higher res textures etc.

 

[Delta-64-]

All right i'll do some digging and research when i got time. I will admit my mistake on the new engine. It was a new physics engine. But i will find where i saw that they re-did every track. And perhaps i was mistunderestood that part...it was a long time ago i read the article on that, ill try and find it.

I guess my original point was is that i highly doubt we are going to see less tracks. You said you wouldnt be surprised if we did on the fact that it is new hardware. I just dont see that happening.
I think this is all a big translation mistake. Non one knows what 20 "Locations" means.

But dave, you could be right, and that would be dissapointing to see less tracks. Everyone says this game has been in development for over 5 years, which isnt the truth. GT 4 was released 5 years ago in Japan. Then, there was Tourist Trophy, in 2006. They worked on GTHD. They Started GT Mobile. Then there is GT5P, which, i remember KY saying after its release, they were concentrating on Prologue and getting that right before continiung on the full game. Number of specs followed prologues release. These dont sound major, but all took away from working on GT5 at 100% strength. So it may have been 5 years, but in terms of true development, maybe only 2-2.5 of those years have been dedicated to GT5.

So, you could be right, and we could see less tracks. Im contradicting myself now, and i wrote way too much. I need to go to bed...

 

[Delta-64-]

Actually as far as I know, not all tracks in Forza 3 were made by Turn 10. They outsource development to other small studios to make tracks for them. For example in Forza 2, that Snakes track which had about 10 variations was made by another development studio, not Turn 10.

I think the difference is Polyphony Digital does everything themselves.

Also regarding the tracks from GT3 to GT4, a new engine makes no difference. The tracks are 3D models that are imported into the game, they don't need to be remade. That's why the special editions of GT5P with La Sarthe and Nurburgring look so much like the GT4 versions, they just imported the 3D models into the engine, and added higher res textures etc.

That is a good point. Lots of games do that. Big Sandwich games is one of those company's. They apparently did all of Uncharted 2 MP maps, and some of the SOCOM Maps. So, i stand mistaken, sorry. If PD is doing it all themselves it is possible we could see less...

 

[paskowitz]

Just as a reminder I am going to go through this again. This is why 20 unique tracks... ie London, HSR, etc is bogus.

These are the tracks (not variations) we already know:
-HSR
-Suzuka
-London
-Fuji
-Eiger
-Le Mans
-The Nurburgring
-Tskuba
-Toscana
-Dayton
-Indianapolis
-Top Gear Test Track
-Madrid
-Tokyo

That leaves 6 more unique track locations. If you put in the inevitable PD designed test tracks thats 5. Laguna Seca has been in the game since forever, so even though its weak, thats 4 left. That leaves 1-2 rally, PD designed, real tracks left. Oh yeah then there are those tracks that were in the GTPSP trailer and GTPSP promotional screen shots (NY, etc). Then there are the locations on the weather map in GT5p. Yeah right! Say is 29... it still does not work. GT4 had 39 unique tracks if you combine all the "locations" in GT4, TT, GT5p, GTPSP, and GT5 you get about 30. I could see some PD designed tracks getting cut and maybe a rally track but other than that... plus you add all the new locations never before seen in GT. My guess for GT5 will be between 35 and 40 unique tracks (without variations).

Also like others have pointed out the Nurburgring GP course is totally different than the North Loop. Same with Silverstone. Each variation is very different.

Lastly I am sure PD will offer tracks as DLC. So even if the number the worst case scenario is we will have to pay like $5-10(max) per track.

 

[fasj6418]

Five dollars would be an obscene price for a track. In a game that puts 70 tracks and 950 cars for 60 bucks, you can't have a DLC model like this. If they do this, they will not get any sales.

Most i would pay is 0.49 a car and 0.99 a track, and that, only in speacial cases.

If people start accepting high prices than it would be an invitation for them to keep doing an evil business plan.

5-10 bucks for a track is absolutely nuts.

 

[Devedander]

Five dollars would be an obscene price for a track. In a game that puts 70 tracks and 950 cars for 60 bucks, you can't have a DLC model like this. If they do this, they will not get any sales.
Most i would pay is 0.49 a car and 0.99 a track, and that, only in speacial cases.

If people start accepting high prices than it would be an invitation for them to keep doing an evil business plan.

5-10 bucks for a track is absolutely nuts.

Don't be so sure of this... DLC regularly gets ridiculous prices all things considered, and yet once some people buy it (some people will at almost any price) and the rest get bored of what they have and want something new... well the temptation to race with your friends on tracks you don't have makes that $5 seem like just a few bucks... I mean $5 is barely a meal at McDonalds and that only lasts a few minutes, only keeps you full for an hour or two... a new track could be fun for quite a while...

 

[ryanVAMPIRATE]

Has any one thing to take in to account that 20 locations could be just that a Location as in USA, UK, Japan, and so on to be locations. That meaning the USA track variations would be Daytona, Indy, Laguna, etc. I just think every one is looking for reasons to hate GT5 by reading way to into things. I find it hard to beleive with WRC and Nascar license, and the tracks we know about that they only are going to have those tracks. I think every one that thinks that there is only 20 tracks needs to take a chill pill. If i am wrong then yes this would suck but I personally would still want the game for the same reasons i have always loved and played the game. The selection of cars. I always loved the fact they always had everyday cars that you could drive and cars you will never get the chance to drive or less your bill gates. GT1 was so small compared to where it has gone today, but yet still i can sit down and play it to remember why i loved the game o so much.

 

[Devedander]

I actually think people do the opposite more ie read positive but unlikely things in just because they want them and they aren't expressly excluded due to the wording of the text.

Just look around the forums, people are finding ways to make anything true (ie they said full damage on some cars but didn't say no damage on other cars so maybe its damage on all cars - yeah maybe, not likely).

I think until we have reason to belive otherwise we should just take them at their most likely meaning and if something better comes along, hey great.