The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[prisonermonkeys]

No, he crashed into Damon Hill, and Jacques Villeneuve.

No, he didn't. Not at Spa. tombrooks97 was drawing a comparison between Schumacher and Senna, and the way they both qualified seventh at Spa. Michael Schumacher made it through La Source. Bruno Senna didn't. That's the point I was trying to make, but thank you for muddying everything with a completely unrelated point.

 

[peter_vod69]

No, he didn't. Not at Spa. tombrooks97 was drawing a comparison between Schumacher and Senna, and the way they both qualified seventh at Spa. Michael Schumacher made it through La Source. Bruno Senna didn't. That's the point I was trying to make, but thank you for muddying everything with a completely unrelated point.

Has anyone ever told you that you seem like an arrogant idiot with no sense of humour?

I mean, besides now?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Kubica-Lotus relations at "zero point".

 

[aarror]

Sauber shoots down Kobayashi leaving rumors:

Sauber F1 Team
Unfortunately someone published nonsense about Kamui leaving our team. Stupid. We are very fond of him, he stays with us!

On Facebook

 

[Prince.M5]

Sauber shoots down Kobayashi leaving rumors:

Sauber F1 Team
Unfortunately someone published nonsense about Kamui leaving our team. Stupid. We are very fond of him, he stays with us!

On Facebook

That's probably the best thing I've heard today. He's got a lot to show as I'm expecting the Sauber to be quite strong next year.

Now it's a waiting game until the end of December until Sutil and others confirmed their seats...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's probably the best thing I've heard today.

I can't believe you took it seriously. Kobayashi has not dodged a bullet because there was clearly never a bullet to dodge. By taking the report from Blick seriously, you're just giving the tabloids what they way - your attention. If Sauber hadn't shot this down, Blick would likely run another story in the next few days, further claiming that Bianchi/Ferrari/Santander would buy Kobayashi out of his seat, and like the last story, it would be carefully written to keep your interest up and your bum firmly on the edge of your seat. The tabloids don't care that this is made up; they just want your attention so that you will keep reading.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Ralf Schumacher for Williams!

I think Hulkenberg is a dead cert for Force India, and hopefully Di Resta will stay, they'll make a good team.

 

[hawkeye122]

Ralf Schumacher for Williams!

I think Hulkenberg is a dead cert for Force India, and hopefully Di Resta will stay, they'll make a good team.

Mercedes is REALLY going to need him this year in DTM...

Di Resta and Hulkenberg= McLaren Young Driver development squad.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Saward reckons Hulkenberg and di Resta are both signed for 2011, but Vijay Mallya has had a change of heart and is now trying to get Hulkenberg out of his contract and keep Adrian Sutil. I know I think little of Saward, and that it is very difficult to take anything he says about Mallya seriously because of his grudge, but this would explain why Force India promised a driver annoucement in Abu Dhabi and then fell silent.

 

[Centura]

I can't believe you took it seriously. Kobayashi has not dodged a bullet because there was clearly never a bullet to dodge. By taking the report from Blick seriously, you're just giving the tabloids what they way - your attention. If Sauber hadn't shot this down, Blick would likely run another story in the next few days, further claiming that Bianchi/Ferrari/Santander would buy Kobayashi out of his seat, and like the last story, it would be carefully written to keep your interest up and your bum firmly on the edge of your seat. The tabloids don't care that this is made up; they just want your attention so that you will keep reading.

Well, thank you for posting the rumor here so they got even more attention. Good job, buddy.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yes, I did. And I made it quite clear that it was a rumour from an unreliable source - because I knew that if someone else posted it, they would only be alarmist about it and that they probably wouldn't check the source.

 

[Tom]

The key difference here is that Michael Schumacher didn't crash into Jaime Alguersuari.

Very true, but he did make a hash of it in his later years, that and Alguersuari was only a few months old at the time.

 

[fps_christian]

Yes, I did. And I made it quite clear that it was a rumour from an unreliable source - because I knew that if someone else posted it, they would only be alarmist about it and that they probably wouldn't check the source.

Yes, certainly, like I need you to tell me that rumors aren't facts..

 

[Seismica]

I'll be disappointed if Hulkenberg doesn't get a seat. Ignoring his Brazil performances for a moment, he matched and beat Barrichello for most of the season. But at the same time he didn't make many mistakes, he was a consistently good driver who brought the car home.

Also, if you think how he managed to qualify regularly in the top 10 when the car was behind both Mercedes and Renault for most of the season.... and obviously his pole position in Brazil (Changeable conditions, everybody was on slicks, how was he so fast?).

It's a bit of a dilemma because Sutil doesn't deserve to lose his seat as he has done extremely well this season. The Force India has not been quite as competitive as it was at some points last year. Mallya has a very tough decision to make. Why does Schumacher have to be here... he's like 43? That seat could give space for Di Resta so that Hulkenberg can come in.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Schumacher's not done yet, and I can proudly say that although I'm not a fan as such, I never believed the rubbish about him having 'lost it' in terms of ability since he started his comeback journey. If Mercedes move up into being a top 3 team next year, we'll see a shvtstorm fight for the title, honestly, it would be cool to see the emotion on all fronts if Schumacher won an 8th title, and who's to say he's not staying on for 2013+.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Why does Schumacher have to be here... he's like 43? That seat could give space for Di Resta so that Hulkenberg can come in.

Because teams are obligated to take whoever they think are the best drivers for them at any given time. So long as Mercedes think Schumacher is the right driver for them, they will continue to run him. Where is it written that they must consider the future careers of other drivers when they make their driver decisions?

 

[Peter.]

Has anyone ever told you that you seem like an arrogant idiot with no sense of humour?

I mean, besides now?

Not really, he is just a big fan of Vitaly Petrov, and not one of Senna. He tends to throw things under the mat to prove his point, that Senna is a useless pay driver and Petrov is the best thing ever!

 

[peter_vod69]

Petrov did nothing in his two seasons except annoy Fernando Alonso in Abu Dhabi. He's completely unremarkable.

 

[Azure Flare]

^Red Bull are pretty fond of him

 

[Seismica]

Schumacher's not done yet, and I can proudly say that although I'm not a fan as such, I never believed the rubbish about him having 'lost it' in terms of ability since he started his comeback journey. If Mercedes move up into being a top 3 team next year, we'll see a shvtstorm fight for the title, honestly, it would be cool to see the emotion on all fronts if Schumacher won an 8th title, and who's to say he's not staying on for 2013+.

I don't think he's past it either, I just think it's better for the future of F1 is the older drivers step aside.

Because teams are obligated to take whoever they think are the best drivers for them at any given time. So long as Mercedes think Schumacher is the right driver for them, they will continue to run him. Where is it written that they must consider the future careers of other drivers when they make their driver decisions?

It isn't written anywhere. I guess the nature of F1 now is that drivers are expendeable in that teams prefer to get the best drivers they can short term, rather than find a talented driver and train them up. Rosberg is more than capable of leading the Mercedes team; he has been for the last two years. I don't see why a driver like Hulkenberg or Di Resta wouldn't suffice.

I'm not saying it's better to take on young drivers, I just don't agree with the way things are done. I'd rather see new up and coming drivers having a shot. F1 seats are sought after enough as it is, without older drivers taking up the seats.

I just had a brainwave. Launch a new series: Formula Seniors! Like Formula one but for drivers that are passed it. De la Rosa and Barrichello can head the lineup. Free recovery bus service back to the paddock for when Countdown and/or Countryfile starts.

But seriously, the average age in F1 is steadily increasing. There is an increasing number of drivers who perform well in GP2, maybe get a test role and then just... disappear

 

[Alex.]

^Red Bull are pretty fond of him

Everypony? Could you be trying any harder?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sauber shoots down Kobayashi leaving rumors:

Sauber F1 Team
Unfortunately someone published nonsense about Kamui leaving our team. Stupid. We are very fond of him, he stays with us!

I saw this and thought it was quite funny, it was on a twitter post as well. Good times, good times...

Also it looks like Romain was picked also (probably obvious) because Total wanted a french driver and pushed and more money would have been given by them. Also it seems Senna is fine with a third driver role...in other words he probably isn't but wants to stay in F1. Hopefully Senna will get a third chance, since third time is the charm; first obviously HRT last year, second being LRGP this year.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Also it looks like Romain was picked also (probably obvious) because Total wanted a french driver and pushed and more money would have been given by them.

I don't think it was a case of them offering more money. I seem to recall reading somewhere that a French driver was a condition of Total offering the same amount of money. Total was connected to the team through Renault. With the team severing ties with Renault by becoming Lotus, Total needed a reason to stay. Given the close alliance between Total and Renault, Total's products for Formula 1 are no doubt the best for the Renault engines, because they would have been developed for those Renault engines.

Hopefully Senna will get a third chance, since third time is the charm; first obviously HRT last year, second being LRGP this year.

Most drivers don't get a second chance. Senna did. Timo Glock did. Romain Grosjean is getting his. Nico Hulkenberg might be. But I can't really name anybody else who got a second bite at the apple. And based on his performances in 2011, I can't really see why Senna should get a third.

 

[Peter.]

Most drivers don't get a second chance. Senna did. Timo Glock did. Romain Grosjean is getting his. Nico Hulkenberg might be. But I can't really name anybody else who got a second bite at the apple. And based on his performances in 2011, I can't really see why Senna should get a third.

Do you really consider the year he spent at HRT a chance? There was little light at the end of the tunnel with a car that was 7 seconds off the pace, but he still managed to beat all of his teammates bar Klien, evne Klien he was faster than more than 50% of the time, taking practice sessions into account.

He jumps into the Lotus in the second half of the season, outqualifies Petrov first time in. Not impressed? At this moment he basically showed everyone he meant business. Yes, he wrote off that race in turn 1, but he managed to beat Petrov twice for the rest of the year, both times several tenths faster, and was never more than 3-4 tenths off of Vitaly. Petrov has been with the team since 2010, and got several hundreds of miles of testing off season, as well as more than half a season already. Senna got 1 testing day, and a FP1 Session before debuting at Spa.

Aside from a collision with Schumacher, Alguersuari, and some bad luck, and bad strategy, he has done well. Well enough, in my eyes to warrant a second chance to get some more experience under his belt and improve. If he were doing poorly, Nelson Piquet style, them my argument would be downright stupid, but he didn't do poorly. At the moment, we don't know where he is set to go, whether he may take a seat at Williams, or remain in the Lotus reserve driver role. Neither seems unlikely.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I don't think it was a case of them offering more money. I seem to recall reading somewhere that a French driver was a condition of Total offering the same amount of money. Total was connected to the team through Renault. With the team severing ties with Renault by becoming Lotus, Total needed a reason to stay. Given the close alliance between Total and Renault, Total's products for Formula 1 are no doubt the best for the Renault engines, because they would have been developed for those Renault engines.

That's not what I was saying, this is all fine and dandy what you've said here and I understand all that on the technical side. My point isn't any of the that but I see why you're using it. I'm just simply quoting an article of what Jean Alesi said, a person probably more in the know than your or I. He says they pushed for a french driver and also said that they'd pay a little more for one.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But what Alesi isn't saying is that Total would likely have pulled out if the team did not take a French driver.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

But what Alesi isn't saying is that Total would likely have pulled out if the team did not take a French driver.

Okay that's likely but not what I was trying to say.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I know what you're trying to say: that a French driver in the team made the team more attractive to Total. But underneath it all, they threatened to withdraw if there was no French driver in the team.

Do you really consider the year he spent at HRT a chance?

Yes, I would. Just as I would say that Jerome d'Ambrosio and Lucas di Grassi had their chance at Virgin. Or the way that Karun Chandhok had a chance at Hispania.

There was little light at the end of the tunnel with a car that was 7 seconds off the pace, but he still managed to beat all of his teammates bar Klien, evne Klien he was faster than more than 50% of the time, taking practice sessions into account.

So ... why are you so quick to say that his season with Hispania did not represent his first chance in Formula 1?

He jumps into the Lotus in the second half of the season, outqualifies Petrov first time in. Not impressed?

I was very impressed ... for about seven seconds, or roughly the amount of time it took for Senna to get from the start line to collecting Jaime Alguersuari. Qualifying seventh for his first race with the team was very impressive. Taking another driver out at the first corner was very embarrassing.

Yes, he wrote off that race in turn 1, but he managed to beat Petrov twice for the rest of the year, both times several tenths faster, and was never more than 3-4 tenths off of Vitaly. Petrov has been with the team since 2010, and got several hundreds of miles of testing off season, as well as more than half a season already. Senna got 1 testing day, and a FP1 Session before debuting at Spa.

Why are you so in love with the idea that qualifying pace means something? Sure, Senna out-qualified Petrov three times. Out of eight. And of those three times, he actually only beat Petrov in the race once - in Singapore. In fact, of the other two times he out-qualified Petrov, Petrov went on to score points when Senna simply went backwards.

Well enough, in my eyes to warrant a second chance to get some more experience under his belt and improve.

All I can say is thank God you aren't running a team. Drivers don't need "second chances to get more experience and improve". They need results.

At the moment, we don't know where he is set to go, whether he may take a seat at Williams, or remain in the Lotus reserve driver role. Neither seems unlikely.

Why would he take a seat at Williams? Williams have specifically stated that the driver of their second car will be "more experienced" than Maldonado. And while Senna technically is more experienced than Maldonado, it's only by seven races. Which, considering the team's other options - Adrian Sutil, Vitaly Petrov, etc. - is not much to brag about.

 

[Prince.M5]

I can't believe you took it seriously.

Not that I'm taking it seriously. Just that the other day I have nothing interesting to be heard of, and that was probably the best... I mean, come on. I understand these tabloits were just making stories up.

 

[Pupik]

But I can't really name anybody else who got a second bite at the apple. And based on his performances in 2011, I can't really see why Senna should get a third.

Luca Badoer
Pedro de la Rosa
Alexander Wurz

...spring to mind on the past couple of years.

Mika Salo
Roberto Moreno

...were some of the more successful ones who re-launched their careers, although on a bit of a temporary basis.

In modern F1, it seems you really require some hardware to get back into any seat, unless it's the sponsor-desperate end of the grid.