The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread
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csmeteora9
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Tuna sandwiches are their favourite, I heard.
Honestly, it would be a great thing for F1 as an entertainment "show". Imagine the drama! The battles to see Hamilton defeat his former team! The pressure on Petrov! The excitement at wherever Hamilton ended up!
I'm surprised Bernie doesn't orchestrate a few of these sort of moves to boost ratings. Nothing gets people watching like drama. Look at LeBron James.
csmeteora9
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Indeed. Being serious now however, the chances are so slim that personally I wouldn't consider it a possibility even. After all, there are far tastier treats in existence than tuna sandwiches!Honestly, it would be a great thing for F1 as an entertainment "show". Imagine the drama! The battles to see Hamilton defeat his former team! The pressure on Petrov! The excitement at wherever Hamilton ended up!
I'm surprised Bernie doesn't orchestrate a few of these sort of moves to boost ratings. Nothing gets people watching like drama. Look at LeBron James.
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I really cannot see Hamilton leaving Mclaren, not even for 2013. I can see Massa being dropped from Ferrari as a probability though (but not mid season), and I don't see Mark Webber at Red Bull in 2013, unless he pulls out some magic next year(but also, he won't be dropped mid season).
I don't see why Virgin would drop Timo Glock and Charles Pic is already signed too, if they had to drop one driver for Petrov it would be Pic, unless Timo Glock is actually going to Williams... Ahh its all confusing. About Kobayashi, he has been awesome. Why would they drop him? He's already confirmed with the team and has proven he is more than worthy of his seat, or a better one.
I don't see why Virgin would drop Timo Glock and Charles Pic is already signed too, if they had to drop one driver for Petrov it would be Pic, unless Timo Glock is actually going to Williams... Ahh its all confusing. About Kobayashi, he has been awesome. Why would they drop him? He's already confirmed with the team and has proven he is more than worthy of his seat, or a better one.
MagpieRacer
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http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/272622/raikkonen-given-all-clear-after-skidoo-crash/
Raikkonen almost did himself out of a seat.
Raikkonen almost did himself out of a seat.
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- gdwest1
McLaren would kick themselves later down the road if they let Hamilton go. As far as drivers go, I'd say he's one of, if not the quickest. Granted, I am slightly biased, but theres no denying his speed.
That just seems foolish... Surely he was having fun, but come on, you just got a contract for a decent team and then you go out and potentially mess up this fancy new contract. That would throw another loop into the Petrov game, but it sounds like he's alright.
That just seems foolish... Surely he was having fun, but come on, you just got a contract for a decent team and then you go out and potentially mess up this fancy new contract. That would throw another loop into the Petrov game, but it sounds like he's alright.
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Indeed very lucky
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It wouldn't be the first time a team made a bizarre decision. When Felipe Massa was racing for Sauber, he was very erratic, and a lot of people questioned it when he joined Ferrari - but they straightened him out. Heck, they did it with Jenson Button; a lot of people throught Button would be annihilated byt Hamilton, and yet Button beat him in his second year with the team. Assuming that this rumour (which I must stress is very thin) is true, the McLaren evidently see something in Petrov that they can mould and shape into a strong driver.
There is nothing to suggest Glock would go to Williams. There is a clause in his contract that says he may leave early, but only if one of the top-four teams offers him a ride. The only rumour that suggests Glock will go to Williams is people assuming Petrov would replace him and looking at the vacant seats that Glock could take.
No. The speculation specifically says that Kobayashi would be replaced by Jules Bianchi.
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- F1fan1
The only reason Kobayashi would be dropped is if someone came along with Significant money. They wouldn't replace him for Sutil.
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Have we all suddenly forgotten how to read?
The rumours make it pretty clear that Kobayashi would be replaced by Bianchi because Bianchi is a Ferrari development driver and Sauber is a Ferrari customer team. Adrian Sutil has nothing to do with this.
The rumours make it pretty clear that Kobayashi would be replaced by Bianchi because Bianchi is a Ferrari development driver and Sauber is a Ferrari customer team. Adrian Sutil has nothing to do with this.
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The irony of that is that you seem to have "forgotten to read" Tom Brook's post previously. I was just stating why Sutil to Sauber wouldn't be happening. Personally, I would hate to see Kobayashi get screwed out of a drive like that.
I'm not so sure about the rumour anyway as only one source has picked up on this so far and Autosport haven't even bothered to mention it. That's how reliable it is.
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- mrvajj
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I just said that there is nothing connecting Sutil to a buy-out of Kobayashi's seat. The only rumours about it specifically state that if anybody is going to replace Kobayashi, it will be Jules Bianchi. There has not been anything connecting Adrian Sutil to the seat, except for alarmists like yourself who are clearly blind. Especially since this is the third time that I have had to explain it.
How about the next time you decide to post in a thread, you actually read it before doing so? It will save you the embarrassment and me the frustration.
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I sure hope Bianchi isn't replaced by Sutil!
PS Next time chief, check who I'm talking to before you have a stompy.
RTSolvalou
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This is an article with some quotes, from Nov 17 I just came across.
http://www.f1zone.net/news/petrov-slams-renault-and-admits-exit-possible/10370/
The main quote that is of importance to me is "Look at the queue of drivers at Williams — I believe there are 20 people eager to take the second place there. Thank god I’m not in it.
Now this was Nov 17, and things can change, but if these quotes are genuine, this more or less seems to suggest Petrov/His Manager was never in talks with Williams, it just an obvious possibility.
In this case, (and in my eyes) it just leaves Force India, Marussia, the McLaren rumour/rumbling, and going back to GP2... (GP2 I figured from that Oskana Q&A posted earlier).
http://www.f1zone.net/news/petrov-slams-renault-and-admits-exit-possible/10370/
The main quote that is of importance to me is "Look at the queue of drivers at Williams — I believe there are 20 people eager to take the second place there. Thank god I’m not in it.
Now this was Nov 17, and things can change, but if these quotes are genuine, this more or less seems to suggest Petrov/His Manager was never in talks with Williams, it just an obvious possibility.
In this case, (and in my eyes) it just leaves Force India, Marussia, the McLaren rumour/rumbling, and going back to GP2... (GP2 I figured from that Oskana Q&A posted earlier).
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It's already been suggested. Petrov's girlfriend/close friend (I'm not really sure what she is) reckons an annoucement will be made on Friday.
Petrov doesn't really have sponsors. He has money, but it comes from the Russian government. Lada is perhaps the biggest sponsor he brought to Renault, but that was because Renault agreed to buy a stake in Lada's parent company AvtoVAZ, in exhcange for Petrov.
However, Petrov in a Marussia will likely attract more Russian sponsors.
Petrov doesn't really have sponsors. He has money, but it comes from the Russian government. Lada is perhaps the biggest sponsor he brought to Renault, but that was because Renault agreed to buy a stake in Lada's parent company AvtoVAZ, in exhcange for Petrov.
However, Petrov in a Marussia will likely attract more Russian sponsors.
RTSolvalou
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I do suspect Marussia will be in F1 for the long haul (10+ years), and end up developing their own engine for F1 (which is a substantial extra financial undertaking since F1 engines don't go in road cars), but for now they'll have to tough it out at the back of the grid and improve in the other areas. It'll be terrible to see Petrov move back in the field, but if Marussia plan to make their own engines etc then it will be worth the wait.
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Marussia have no current plans to develop their own engines. Their road cars are powered by Cosworth, so they're happy to continue with Cosworths in their Formula 1 cars. Although the engine might have been a little down on power this year, that was mostly due to the way Cosworth could not get their throttle mapping to work as well as the other engine suppliers. With the ban on off-throttle mapping and blown diffusers in 2012, the gap in performance should be significantly less.
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But I'll eat my hat if actually is.
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Why? The engines are build to the same sepcifications. The Renault might be the most fuel-efficent and the Mercedes might have the most raw power, but all of the engines are very similar. If there is any gap in performance between the Cosworth teams and the rest of the field, it will be because the Cosworth teams are Marussia and HRT, and not because they are using Cosworth engines.
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Only reason Caterham was knocking on the midfield's door so much this season, especially Williams' door, was probably because of the Renault's superior throttle mapping compared to any other engine, allowing them to get a lot more out of the diffuser. You could say the same for Renault. For the first half of the season, when everyone was still only just implementing these hot blown diffusers, Renault had their already, and so was knocking on Ferrari's door for a bit, and beating Mercedes.
Hell, to be honest, if it wasn't for the Renault's throttle mapping, Red Bull probably wouldn't have been so dominant in qualifying of the race.
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How long has it been since any Cosworth engine did well in F1? Yeah, exactly, you have to go back to almost the DFV days to find Cosworth car (Benetton's cheater car notwithstanding) that was competitive. They just don't have the technological lead, or resources, or consistent level of involvement of the others. AAAAAAND even if they make similar power, I'll bet it isn't as much as the others, and I bet the driveability is nowhere near as good.
Weak engine + rubbish chassis/aero is always going to be a recipe for fail.
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Well, you could say that - but you'd be wrong. Throttle mapping worked because it blew exhaust gasses over the diffuser, the part of the car that produces the most downforce. However, Renault had forward-mounted exhausts, blowing exhaust gas under the car. While that still produced downforce, the difference was that the other teams could precisely angle their exhausts to produce the most downforce when Renault could not.
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Massa would be nice to see dropped but I doubt it for some reason. As far as Webber goes, he said it himself yesterday or the day before that he doesn't see himself going beyond next year. I believe that's even if he pulls off massive results like 2010 or better. I think Webber has had a great racing career, not too many people can flip an lmp and F1 car backwards in one lifetime and tell their kids.
Cosworth aren't that bad, you're going to an extreme on that, and they're supposedly suppose to be making good power. If they were a new engine company like Pure will be in 2014 then that might stand, but they've been making engines as long as the other teams almost. Also from what you say that would be like saying that Honda engines sucked, since Super Augiri never did well yet that doesn't explain BAR. Same goes for Renault with RBR and Renault, they both had the same engine and mapping system, yet one was awful and the other was amazing. I would say that it's more of Cosworth being the money saving option when compared to other engines and being bought by teams with so far horrible chassis. Last years williams was pretty good, but this years was awful, yet nearly the same engine is in the car.
Also Williams is most likely able to afford Renault engines now because of PDVSA, and is a company they've done work with before, but also probably feel it will suit the car better than the cosworth or any other make.
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What, you got shares in Cosworth or something? If Cosworth were any good, McLaren would be looking at them, so would Red Bull, so would Force India. Face it, any team with money will buy the best engines, and no one with money has bought a Cosworth Engine for ages. Cosworth F1 engines not that bad? Yeah, maybe compared to an Indy Motor, but compared to other F1 engines (which seems natural given they compete in F1) they are the worst.
PS BAR never really did well either. Especially given the prodigious amount of money poured down their toilets (I'm only assuming that's where it went, because it didn't go into race-winning cars).
OH and PPS - where was I being extreme? Jordan won with a Cosworth Engine in 2003 when everyone else made like it was a GT5 shuffle race and punted each other off the road, but they haven't had a consistent winner in F1 (as I said, besides the cheater Benetton) since the very early 80's.
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Yes and no. I mean, clearly it's the worst engine in F1. But it's a bit of a chicken or the egg problem. Do Cosworth powered teams fail because the engine is a real stinker? Or do they fail because they're cheap teams who can't keep up technologically in other parts of their car, and the engine looks bad by association? The engine could be only marginally worse than the other F1 engines, but crippled by being in a bunch of lackluster chassis that are unable to express it's true performance.
I mean, even if you gave Marussia and HRT Mercedes engines I wouldn't really have expected them to be finishing much higher than they do. I believe Williams was the only one of the three to have a KERS system.
And in that sort of situation, Cosworth is kind of crippled. I doubt they're getting the kind of strong feedback that they'd get from a championship winning team, so they're unlikely to make as much progress as the other engine manufacturers. RBR and McLaren have seen success with their current engine suppliers, so Cosworth would have to be an obvious step up over what they already have. But it's tough to prove yourself when you're working with Williams, HRT and Marussia.
I think Cosworth's best bet is the engine reg changes, when everyone gets a clean slate. At the moment, they're at the bottom and they'll probably stay there.
I mean, even if you gave Marussia and HRT Mercedes engines I wouldn't really have expected them to be finishing much higher than they do. I believe Williams was the only one of the three to have a KERS system.
And in that sort of situation, Cosworth is kind of crippled. I doubt they're getting the kind of strong feedback that they'd get from a championship winning team, so they're unlikely to make as much progress as the other engine manufacturers. RBR and McLaren have seen success with their current engine suppliers, so Cosworth would have to be an obvious step up over what they already have. But it's tough to prove yourself when you're working with Williams, HRT and Marussia.
I think Cosworth's best bet is the engine reg changes, when everyone gets a clean slate. At the moment, they're at the bottom and they'll probably stay there.
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