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The 2018 F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation threadFormula 1
- Thread starter EngieDiesel
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- 340
- Swansea
- Rhodriewilliams
Yes I understand I'd be perfectly happy for Kubica to come in and do a few f2 races but that will never happen as its a junior formula. I think learning Pirellis is a thing for a one off drive but if he gets a season it wont be an issue at all. What Kubica is doing hanging round a pit garage being 3rd driver is not helping him back into F1 winning a super formula title would put his name in lights
- 6,293
- Canada
Roberto Meri is doing F2 again, after having been in F1. Technically it’s possible, but I highly highly doubt Kubica would do F2
I’m pretty sure if a Super Formula title was the best way to get to F1, Kubica would be in Japan doing just that. As a third driver, he’s getting at least some seat time in an F1 car, which is more important.
Doing something like winning a super formula or F2 title is important for a young driver, but the significance of it is more about the mental aspect, not the physical driving. Winning a championship proves a driver has what it takes to put a full race , full weekend, full season together. Kubica doesn’t have to prove any of this.
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- HamiltonMP427
Agreed. The irony is that it doesn't work for Stroll
It seemed to help when the car actually worked. Like last year.
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Nobody in the paddock would be impressed about SF title, he would have more to lose there, while not being representative of how he would do back in F1, GP2/F2 champions only go there cause there is no seat for them in F1 and they can’t do another season in F2.
I believe that his reputation, combined with his FP outings and testing is plenty enough to show off for people in paddock
- 340
- Swansea
- Rhodriewilliams
It might be plenty but the only
way back in for kubica will be to bring sponsors like stroll etc
What I am thinking is there are far more deserving drivers winning in f2. So if kubica is more deserving than them he should be beating them on track. Johnny Herbert went down to Japanese f3000 came back and then won 3 Grand Prix
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Kubica would bring performance, good feedback/technical direction and a lot of publicity. And he has money backing, just less then Williams duo.
There are only 2 F2 drivers deserving to be in F1 next year, and neither of them is related to Williams, or to potentially Haas or Sauber. Then there is Giovinazzi, so we would have Russell in FI, Norris in Mclaren, Giovinazzi in Sauber. That leaves one seat each at Sauber and Haas.
Who should get those seats before Kubica does?
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Why do the guys in F2 “deserve” a shot in F1 more than Kubica? In my opinion, no one “deserves” a shot in F1. On top of that, other than Russell and Norris, there isn’t any junior drivers out there who “deserve” an F1 seat period, let alone “deserve” one ahead of Kubica.
I swear most F1 fans just simply get bored of hearing the same names, and somehow think throwing school boy at he car will spice up the show.
- 340
- Swansea
- Rhodriewilliams
Right First of all Giovinazzi 100% proves the point I am making this guy is quality. If he had been racing in F2 last year against Leclerc I don't see why he won't have beaten Charles to a championship and who would ferrrari be after now? I like Kubica not being disrespectful towards him at all but he hasn't raced for years. He's not driving much this year there are plenty of series out there to race in and be winning in.
For me I could list loads of ex F1 drivers, DTM, sports car drivers & IndyCar drivers who deseve an F1 shot more than Kubica.
Why should Kubica get back in without having to prove himself again?
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Let's go.
Why shouldn't he? He's a proven talent, everybody in paddock knows his potential, which can't be said about most guys from other series, hell, even with F2 guys you can't see in future, while everybody knows what he's capable of.
Also, people in paddock have much more info than we do, he's doing Pirelli tests, I'm pretty sure that such direct info is worth more than beating somebody in SF, Indy or even F2.
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- HamiltonMP427
I would question how good Kubica's feed back truly is after all this time and primarily being more invested into Rally cars.
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Sorry but I'm finding it difficult to follow what you're saying so I'll just drop it here. Forget I said anything.
- 340
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- Rhodriewilliams
My point is Kubica needs to race If he races and is winning F1 teams will remember the 2012 guy we all love. The whole concept of 3rd driver's sucks
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- HamiltonMP427
That's the issue though, people are clinging to a dream, and a silly one that hasn't much merit. Sure it'd be nice to see something of a feel good story with him, especially for us fans, but reality among fans would probably be better.
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And my point is that Kubica is the same guy that had already proven his talent, had a Ferrari deal. If people in paddock decide he’s worthy based on his testing performances, then why shouldn’t he get a seat? There are way lesser drivers on the grid, and why shouldn’t for example Haas take his talent and backing (with Williams it was reported to be ~7m€ for a race seat) instead of Grosjean? Sauber instead of Ericsson?
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- Anoka, MN
I have a feeling it would be similar, yet worse than when Schumacher returned. A lot of PR surrounding the return followed by the slow realization that despite showing glimpses of their former talent they just don't have it any more. Kubica's return would likely be worse since he's been away longer than Schumacher and likely would be stuck in a backmarker.
I certainly would like to be proven wrong though.
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- HamiltonMP427
You have absolutely no way to quantify that. Ferrari deal means nothing if it actually existed, because that was during a time before his accident, and before he'd been away from F1 for several years. He got a test role because Rosberg helped him gain that, and because teams believed that if he was mostly recovered, he'd be quite a useful person to have. Even teams are banking on the same hopes fans are, but teams are quickly finding out that is misplaced. There is a reason Renault let him go, there is a reason Williams rather see him in a test/development role. There is a reason other mid field teams have said they're uninterested. So I'm curious what you know that they do not?
Again Sauber are owned by Ericsson's backers, if Vasseur were to get rid of him and then his (Marcus) backers left, the team would crumble. Perhaps you forgot how dire the outlook was under Monisha. Haas would take a bigger risk on someone with hardly any backing than a driver that is actually capable of getting points and is having a bad year and making it worse by letting the frustration get to him? I don't think so.
- 340
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- Rhodriewilliams
Kubica isn’t testing much that’s why he needs to race! Hass could take Kimi for next year who’s a proven front runner and knows next years car better than the Hass team do
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- HamiltonMP427
You're basing that on the idea that Haas will do what they did this year, and basically run the previous Ferrari and update it through out the year. However, that might not be the case. One, Haas might go their own route and evolve this years car based on what they learned, by themselves. They may even have to do this because the FIA may step in and claim unfair advantage. However we're ignoring the most basic reason why that wouldn't work, and that's because the aero rules next year will change the cars anyways.
The front wing will be largely different than this year, and that will factor in greatly.
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There are two reasons, namely Sainz and Hulkenberg, and I would make the same call.
Many millions reasons
Which mid field team have said they’re uninterested?
So are they owned or backed? If they’re owned, then they would be silly to employ guy who is going half a second a lap slower than the car is capable of just because they are buddies/family, last year they could make strong case for Marcus, but this year he got exposed and Vasseur will (ok I would) do everything he can to find a replacement.
If they’re backed then fair play you have a point
It’s not as if I said something along the lines “Kubica is the goat, hurr durr, give him a Ferrari”, I was merely saying that some teams could as well go for it rather than employ drivers that are heavily underperforming
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- mustafur
Fairy Tales don't happen like they should in the real world.
Unless he gets more financial backing or an injury to a Williams race driver takes them out of a few races, I don't see him getting into F1 again, too many risk factors.
Kubica is not in the same position as when Kimi came back into F1 and even that was considered risky at the time.
The cars have changed significantly, his body is not the same, and he is not young even if he was to have some speed still he would only have a few good years left.
He would be better served doing Touring cars or Rally.
Unless he gets more financial backing or an injury to a Williams race driver takes them out of a few races, I don't see him getting into F1 again, too many risk factors.
Kubica is not in the same position as when Kimi came back into F1 and even that was considered risky at the time.
The cars have changed significantly, his body is not the same, and he is not young even if he was to have some speed still he would only have a few good years left.
He would be better served doing Touring cars or Rally.
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- HamiltonMP427
delete double post
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- HamiltonMP427
Ericsson is backed by Longbow, after he joined the team and Sauber started to look like it may crumble, Longbow bought majority share of the team. Thus the group that backs Ericsson owns the team as well. You may not like it but this is the world of F1, and we don't always get what we as fans think is best. However, just because that is such, doesn't mean we ignore the facts and history of why certain decisions will probably happen, like Ericsson keeping said seat.
I would also ask what reason do Longbow need to be in F1. It's interesting they only took interest when they had a native driver to back, thus they could leave that if they no longer have a driver to back.
Also I never said you implied Kubica was great or anything of the sort, I'm simply giving you the reason as to why for now it isn't likely Kubica will move to a race seat. While asking how you know he'd outperform those you think are underperforming.
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They are team owners, they don't only sponsor the team, they make money off it. In previous years Marcus wasn't that bad compared to his team mates, this year they have a really talented driver in the other seat which exposes Marcus as average or below average driver. Keeping him means Longbow loses money. Based on last year, Vasseur couldn't build a case for team owners to drop Ericsson, this year he can.
It would be business decision, nothing more.
I don't know that, but why should teams keep subpar drivers who have never been and never will be a top driver?
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- HamiltonMP427
How do you know Longbow makes money from this or loses it based on Ericsson being there or not? Companies invest into things plenty of times and lose money or only break even, they don't automatically make money just because they bought an F1 team. Especially with how the concord is still set up. Also you're of the assumption that Vasseur can simply say Ericsson isn't performing and thus get rid of him. He has many years of experience with the team, can help with development, as well as be a benchmark for new drivers. Especially if Ferrari wants to keep the seat at Sauber on loan.
Again not saying I want Ericsson to stay I'm just making an argument for the evidence at hand and what history has shown.
Your wanted replacement is arguably worse or equal and brings hardly any money to the seat. So by the same litmus test, that replacement driver will probably not ever be a top driver, why give him the shot other than fan desires? Also what subpar drivers are being kept (other than Ericsson), that don't have the potential to be top drivers?
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Well, with Sauber’s upward trajectory we could say they will be consistently getting points and getting into Q3 on regular basis. Now if you had two great talents, and popular ones to that, you get more air time and more (positive, don’t give me Mclaren as example
) air time gets you better sponsorship deals. It also gets you potentially better WCC position which even with how bad Concorde is, it means more money. It might not be that much in F1 world, but I’m pretty sure that any investment company given a chance to spend millions less just by changing one thing in their company, will take that chance.
Last year I would agree with you, he was very close to Pascal, so with his Longbow connection it made sense, but right now he’s been exposed as being much slower than his team mate, and being a waste of a seat.
I think we should end this one here and there, neither of us can prove drivers’ potential, and arguing about opinions is... meh
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- FutureF1
I looooove the silly season so here we go...
Ferrari: Vettel, LeClerc
Mercedes: Hamilton, Bottas
Red Bull: Ricciardo, Verstappen
Force India: Ocon, Perez
Renault: Sainz, Hulkenberg
McLaren: Vandoorne, Norris
Haas: Magnussen, Giovinazzi
Toro Rosso: Gasly, Wickens (Showing he’s still got it in an open wheeler)
Sauber: Ericsson, Ilott (Assuming he has enough super lisence points)
Williams: Stroll, Russell(Merc pays Williams to give him a drive)
Ferrari: Vettel, LeClerc
Mercedes: Hamilton, Bottas
Red Bull: Ricciardo, Verstappen
Force India: Ocon, Perez
Renault: Sainz, Hulkenberg
McLaren: Vandoorne, Norris
Haas: Magnussen, Giovinazzi
Toro Rosso: Gasly, Wickens (Showing he’s still got it in an open wheeler)
Sauber: Ericsson, Ilott (Assuming he has enough super lisence points)
Williams: Stroll, Russell(Merc pays Williams to give him a drive)
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- HamiltonMP427
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Ahh that’s where he went. GP3 is the one series I’m behind on at the moment, I usually leave it to watch during the summer break or off season.
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