The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[McLaren]

Google, Apple and Microsoft can stop doing business in China nothing is stopping them, well, other than greed.

That's beside the point.

With so many businesses having a place in China, it's nigh impossible for anyone to not be labeled a hypocrite when calling out human rights' issues anywhere else, whilst supporting Chinese-made products. The only way you're getting any of these companies out of China is to boycott them & that again, is going to take a global effort.

 

[DDastardly00]

That's beside the point.

With so many businesses having a place in China, it's nigh impossible for anyone to not be labeled a hypocrite when calling out human rights' issues anywhere else, whilst supporting Chinese-made products. The only way you're getting any of these companies out of China is to boycott them & that again, is going to take a global effort.

I have yet to see a boycott on a larger scale actually work though.

It would be interesting to see what could be done with an Antitrust case to Google, since they have a monopoly on internet traffic. Perhaps the US Govt can 'help' Google reorganize back into the USA.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I just found out I'm following this guy.

 

[Joey D]

You absolutely have a right to protect yourself and own a gun. You, however, do not have the right to show up and go vigilante on protesters because you think you're "helping cops".

He was also brandishing his weapon, something not kosher either. I really wish these asshats would get it through their head that their actions make all responsible gun owners look bad.

 

[05XR8]

This is messed up if true.
https://www.thenorthstar.com/shaun-...llaborated-and-strategized-with-local-police/

 

[eran0004]

the NBA protesting police by boycotting their own playoff games while virtue signaling, but are completely silent on HK and the Uighurs is completely fair game because it highlights their hypocrisy.

Sorry, but according to your own logic you’re not allowed to raise a point about that unless you also point out everything else that is wrong in the world.

Where is our GTPlanet thread about the Uighurs? How come we only talk about them in a thread about police shootings in the US? Now that’s some hypocrisy.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Sorry, but according to your own logic you’re not allowed to raise a point about that unless you also point out everything else that is wrong in the world.

Where is our GTPlanet thread about the Uighurs? How come we only talk about them in a thread about police shootings in the US? Now that’s some hypocrisy.

They have a thread, and choose not to use it.

This is messed up if true.
https://www.thenorthstar.com/shaun-...llaborated-and-strategized-with-local-police/

It would be nice if that clip continued and we could hear that individual person's opinion of what happened but of course that wouldn't fit the narrative. I was watching all night and every one of those guys (at least in the groups I saw) that was talked to was repeatedly trying to point out that they're on the same side and are here to help protect against the rioters that are destroying innocent businesses. There's that clip of one guy chasing after a group yelling "stay away from those businesses". This Kyle Rittenhouse might have been with another group but it's not right to say that all of them were there to "shoot protestors".

Edit: Just to be clear I'm not saying you are, but the article and others.

 

[McLaren]

Both Los Angeles teams have reportedly voted not to continue to the NBA season. Every other team has voted to continue.


Does this mean my Mavs win?

 

[05XR8]

They have a thread, and choose not to use it.

It would be nice if that clip continued and we could hear that individual person's opinion of what happened but of course that wouldn't fit the narrative. I was watching all night and every one of those guys (at least in the groups I saw) that was talked to was repeatedly trying to point out that they're on the same side and are here to help protect against the rioters that are destroying innocent businesses. There's that clip of one guy chasing after a group yelling "stay away from those businesses". This Kyle Rittenhouse might have been with another group but it's not right to say that all of them were there to "shoot protestors".

Edit: Just to be clear I'm not saying you are, but the article and others.

I've got to research Kenosha, but this is what I'm getting at:


Whether the three name shooter was with one group or another, as said in the video in my post, it's probably not a good idea to deputize a group of people, let alone every lawful gun owner, at this time.

If so, have that police department spoken to any lawful black gun owners for assistance? Again, I don't know the history of the department, that the quoted officer is from. Neither the history of the arresting precinct, of the three name shooter.

Edit: Guess I don't have to look too much into the KPD history... https://slate.com/news-and-politics...iskinis-blames-protesters-for-own-deaths.html

 

[polysmut]

He's saying they shouldn't be able to unionize.

I tend to agree. Public sector unions basically have the power to extort the tax payers that fund their salary. This happens all the time in SF. It's not uncommon for public union janitors to make over $100k/year here...

I get the impression from loose, second hand information that unions in the US (and possibly Canada?) are perversely powerful.
Elsewhere in the world, it would be a mischaracterisation to describe collective negotiation as extortion.

 

[Dotini]

I've got to research Kenosha, but this is what I'm getting at:


Whether the three name shooter was with one group or another, as said in the video in my post, it's probably not a good idea to deputize a group of people, let alone every lawful gun owner, at this time.

If so, have that police department spoken to any lawful black gun owners for assistance? Again, I don't know the history of the department, that the quoted officer is from. Neither the history of the arresting precinct, of the three name shooter.

Edit: Guess I don't have to look too much into the KPD history... https://slate.com/news-and-politics...iskinis-blames-protesters-for-own-deaths.html

This issue of armed citizens aligning with beleaguered police is an interesting one. I've seen and posted how it happen here in uber-liberal western Washington. I have the feeling it's a universal tendency. People of all races have worked hard to create a life (and maintain a civilization). When that threatens to break down into anarchy, naturally there will be concerned citizens. When that citizen happens to be trained in arms, hey presto, instant vigilante and inchoate deputy.

 

[05XR8]

You all see I rarely post in the Opinions & Current Events forum. I just want to share some things and those things to young people and maybe some that have always looked outside of the states. Every place have their problems.

Just had a blank look about a couple things I've watched today. A piece on Ethiopian Jews in Israel. Looks exactly like the states. Just a different colour flag waving. Same signs for Black Lives Matter and some with Hebrew words. We see it's all over.

What got me with the blank look, was the numbers game. Statistics. Someone in the states argued about there being more whites killing whites. More whites in jail. More whites in the overall population.
I mean, why are there more whites in the states population? Really? It's not like the white people what sailed over, all of a sudden were more rabbit than another people. When a whole people are nearly wiped out, of course the invaders are going to flourish.

This is for the young people. I'm tired of seeing what I've seen from as far as I can remember. 400 years keeps being brought up because, as a black man, when is the change going to come? I made a sea change not for racism sake.(the state's politics drove me away).
The change will come with the youth, starting right now.

The youth are realising they have a voice. Sports players walking off the courts. Enough is enough. I don't give a hoot about the damn statistics. My Son is over there in North Carolina. My little cousins held a rally in Co-op City in The Bronx.

There's too much for me to express, that really can't be done online. If the youth want change, they'll have to be the change. From what I'm seeing, they can do it. They'll have to do it. They won't stop til it's done.

Edit: Last one. I'm done here. Love one another.. please...
https://atlantablackstar.com/2020/0...-after-three-days-of-outcry-mayors-statement/

 

[HenrySwanson]

They have a thread, and choose not to use it.

People have brought it up in the Islam thread (and others IIRC)

 

[Groundfish]

I think that you got protests...
Then you’ve got professional paid agitators.
You got election year, so the Rodney King race war incitement (prolly not a word) technique is getting rolled out again and again.
My biggest takeaway from all these events is that it shows that Democrat leaders condone lawlessness, probably because their owners are not Americans.
Bottom line you have a group assembled in a peaceful protest, but once the violence begins that’s a riot/insurrection, and full military force should be used on vandals looters and people like the arsonists attempting to seal people into buildings and burn them alive.
The takeaway is that Democrats like this they want this again probably because of interests that have nothing to do with doing anything besides bankrupting America.

 

[Joey D]

full military force should be used on vandals looters and people like the arsonists attempting to seal people into buildings and burn them alive.

That's not exactly legal. You can't have the military gunning civilians down.

The takeaway is that Democrats like this they want this again probably because of interests that have nothing to do with doing anything besides bankrupting America.

The Republicans are trying just as hard, if not harder, to do the same thing.

 

[McLaren]

I think that you got protests...
Then you’ve got professional paid agitators.
You got election year, so the Rodney King race war incitement (prolly not a word) technique is getting rolled out again and again.
My biggest takeaway from all these events is that it shows that Democrat leaders condone lawlessness, probably because their owners are not Americans.
Bottom line you have a group assembled in a peaceful protest, but once the violence begins that’s a riot/insurrection, and full military force should be used on vandals looters and people like the arsonists attempting to seal people into buildings and burn them alive.
The takeaway is that Democrats like this they want this again probably because of interests that have nothing to do with doing anything besides bankrupting America.

Multiple high-profile Democrats have spoken out against violence at Black Lives Matter protests, sparked by the death of George Floyd at the hands of a Minneapolis police officer in May.

On May 31, the fifth night of demonstrations, former Vice President Joe Biden, the party’s presumptive nominee, wrote in a statement that protesting police brutality is “right and necessary” and the “American response."

“But burning down communities and needless destruction is not,” Biden wrote. “Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not.”

On June 3, Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C., the majority whip of the House of Representatives, told The Washington Post that the movement for racial justice suffers when it is “hijacked” by violence.

"We have to make sure we do not allow ourselves to play the other person’s game,” Clyburn said. “Peaceful protest is our game. Violence is their game. Purposeful protest is our game. This looting and rioting, that's their game. We cannot allow ourselves to play their game."

Black leaders in many communities have echoed these calls, urging protesters not to shift their focus from "justice" to "violence." Some also blamed the violence on "white fringe elements" infiltrating the demonstrations.

And after clashes between protesters and police turned violent in Chicago last weekend, Democratic Mayor Lori Lightfoot said there is "no justification for criminal behavior," according to The New York Times.

"There cannot be any excuse for it, period. This was not legitimate First Amendment protected speech," she said. "To those who engaged in this criminal behavior, let's be clear: We are coming for you."

Regardless of whether that violence is attributable to anti-fascist activists, the city's Democratic Mayor Ted Wheeler recently condemned the actions of some protesters, including attempts to set fire to police union headquarters.

"When you commit arson with an accelerant in an attempt to burn down a building that is occupied by people who you have intentionally trapped inside, you are not demonstrating, you are attempting to commit murder," he said, according to The Washington Post.

In addition, when there have been clear instances of violence attributed to anti-fascist activists, some Democrats have spoken out against it.

In 2017, Pelosi condemned “the violent actions of people calling themselves antifa" after a protest in Berkley, California, according to The Washington Post.

“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts,” Pelosi said at the time.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ondemned-violence-linked-protests/3317862001/

I'd wager it must be hard to Google these claims for yourself, but you're more worried about the Trump kool-aid ending up tasting sour.

 

[Groundfish]

That's not exactly legal. You can't have the military gunning civilians down

You can’t have terrorists firebombing courthouses and murdering police.
The democrat leaders in these areas are complicit in these activities.

I feel that yes let’s just say you are growing up inner city. All you know is violence crime and parents unemployed/absent.
Your experience of police is bad, because in actual fact police only enter these areas when things get really bad.
Drug dealing stealing fighting are normal life in these areas.
The streets are not safe for citizens to walk, peoples property is not safe from harm, and Democrats are complicit in all of these things.
What needs to happen is far increased police budgets and presence in these bad areas. First, make them safe.
Uphold the law. That’s not being done by Democrats in control of these areas.
First establish order and provide a safe environment.
Anyone ought to be able to walk the streets anytime in safety.
After law and order is restored further improvements can start.
Fact is the left wants disorder. The extremist regressives want anarchy because they are funded by people outside America.

I do understand why minorities dislike police in these areas, it’s because the gangs run these areas it’s join or deal with being a perpetual victim of crime.
Sad but true. MORE police to UPHOLD the law and provide PUBLIC SAFETY is the first step.

The leftists are more interested in orange man bad and racist propoganda tho.

 

[Danoff]

What needs to happen is far increased police budgets and presence in these bad areas. First, make them safe.
Uphold the law.

You're plugging your ears to a very loud message being said right now. Which is that for some people, police does not mean safety. That's a failure of the police, and you can't address it by doubling down.

 

[Exorcet]

What needs to happen is far increased police budgets and presence in these bad areas. First, make them safe.

Even if we wanted to take everything else that you mentioned as a given, would just pumping more money into the police be the best way to fix things? What if the police force is poorly structured to deal with the areas you mention?

 

[McLaren]

I'm more interested in orange man good and police propaganda tho.

I don't care if that's actually true or not, but I figured I'd just edit your post for you since you're already 10 lines deep in sharing nonsense.

 

[Groundfish]

Even if we wanted to take everything else that you mentioned as a given, would just pumping more money into the police be the best way to fix things? What if the police force is poorly structured to deal with the areas you mention?

Imo you have bad areas that are dangerous that Americans including law enforcement avoid. Law enforcement only goes in in numbers when there’s very serious 911 calls.
That’s wrong.
No wonder police are hated there. The inequity of enforcement resources is the problem, not the resources themselves!
Jmo the streets of a podunk town in Idaho should be equally safe to Compton or Oakland or SF or Portland or wherever.
Imo, and I dunno how but imo you got to put resources in to maintain SAFETY.
FBI National guard police SWAT military, at first you might need these extreme measures.
The inequity of safety is unacceptable imo.
The only answer imo is rooting out the gangs rooting out the meth factories rooting out the violence and establishing law order and safety.
I’m not an expert on how to do that but when dealing with violent gangs and drug cartels some social worker with a degree in ethnic equality gender studies ain’t gonna cut it!

 

[Joey D]

You can’t have terrorists firebombing courthouses and murdering police.
The democrat leaders in these areas are complicit in these activities.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there shouldn't be rioting. But, the military doesn't exist to "restore law and order" in American cities. That's called martial law and I don't want to live anywhere that thinks martial law is even remotely acceptable.

I feel that yes let’s just say you are growing up inner city. All you know is violence crime and parents unemployed/absent.
Your experience of police is bad, because in actual fact police only enter these areas when things get really bad.

I grew up in an inner-city with my hometown being Pontiac, Michigan. Yes, there was violent crime, but my parents were both apart of my life and very much employed.

But that didn't taint my view of the police. The fact that the police are downright useless tainted my view of them. Anytime I've ever needed the police for anything, they either don't show up, take hours to show, or when they do show up, fail to do anything worthwhile. I've now just gone back to, I'm going to protect myself and my family and not rely on the police for anything. This is why I have a 9mm within arms reach. If someone breaks into my house, I'm not going to ask questions, especially with my son here.

All cops do is generate revenue for municipalities by giving out asinine tickets and arresting people because they have a small bag of weed on them. If they'd actually protect and serve, I'd probably have a better outlook on them. But when I get ticketed for having mudflaps that are too small, cops can get bent.

What needs to happen is far increased police budgets and presence in these bad areas.

Police are notoriously overfunded. Here in Salt Lake, we have 30 brand new, unused cops cars sitting in a dirt lot near I-15. The reason the officers aren't using them? They're not SUVs and they don't want to drive around cars. If a department can afford to let 30 cars just sit there without being used, then they have too much money.

Police need to be demilitarized and put through better training. Until that happens, there won't be much in the way of change.

The leftists are more interested in orange man bad and racist propoganda tho.

Trump is terrible and I'm about as far from left as you can get.

 

[Groundfish]

Police are notoriously overfunded. Here in Salt Lake, we have 30 brand new, unused cops cars sitting in a dirt lot near I-15.

Do you work in PD? Any FIRSTHAND knowledge? Or just anecdotal observations?
Look the situation in these riots isn’t much different than this movie...
Go to 1:30 and it’s almost a verbatim Biden quote...

Truth can be stranger than fiction.
Advocating less law enforcement is advocating lawlessness.
You are advocating a society that’s not safe for citizens.
I fail to understand the Libertarian position here.
No drug cartels don’t just go away when you leave them alone.
Do you think Nancy Pelosi enjoys safety in her travels equally to citizens in inner cities?
Do you think she doesn’t exist behind walls guarded by men and women with guns?
Advocating lawlessness is anarchism.

I fail to see how total lack of public safety is good for anyone. Maybe for you you grab your guns and try to defend yourself, but when a drug cartel comes in that’s got more money than many corporations you got. No. Chance.
Californians and New Yorkers are leaving in droves and they are coming your way and they will vote in more of the same!
That’s what it’s like in America.
Democrats want it, again because their funding comes from interests that want America to be bankrupted and destroyed.
That’s why the silent majority is what it is.

 

[DesertPenguin]

You do know there's more crime than just drug cartels right?

 

[Danoff]

Do you work in PD? Any FIRSTHAND knowledge? Or just anecdotal observations?
Look the situation in these riots isn’t much different than this movie...
Go to 1:30 and it’s almost a verbatim Biden quote...

Truth can be stranger than fiction.
Advocating less law enforcement is advocating lawlessness.
You are advocating a society that’s not safe for citizens.
I fail to understand the Libertarian position here.
No drug cartels don’t just go away when you leave them alone.
Do you think Nancy Pelosi enjoys safety in her travels equally to citizens in inner cities?
Do you think she doesn’t exist behind walls guarded by men and women with guns?
Advocating lawlessness is anarchism.

I fail to see how total lack of public safety is good for anyone. Maybe for you you grab your guns and try to defend yourself, but when a drug cartel comes in that’s got more money than many corporations you got. No. Chance.
Californians and New Yorkers are leaving in droves and they are coming your way and they will vote in more of the same!
That’s what it’s like in America.
Democrats want it, again because their funding comes from interests that want America to be bankrupted and destroyed.
That’s why the silent majority is what it is.

Keep arguing with yourself against anarchy then.

 

[novcze]

Did you guys searched for informations about the latest shooting?
https://nypost.com/2020/08/26/jacob-blake-had-a-knife-in-his-car-when-he-was-shot-by-police-doj/
It doesn't look like completely innocent guy who just tried to drive away.
And btw. since when is fleeing from police investigation accepted way to end interaction with the police.

 

[Scaff]

Do you work in PD? Any FIRSTHAND knowledge? Or just anecdotal observations?
Look the situation in these riots isn’t much different than this movie...
Go to 1:30 and it’s almost a verbatim Biden quote...

Truth can be stranger than fiction.
Advocating less law enforcement is advocating lawlessness.
You are advocating a society that’s not safe for citizens.
I fail to understand the Libertarian position here.
No drug cartels don’t just go away when you leave them alone.
Do you think Nancy Pelosi enjoys safety in her travels equally to citizens in inner cities?
Do you think she doesn’t exist behind walls guarded by men and women with guns?
Advocating lawlessness is anarchism.

I fail to see how total lack of public safety is good for anyone. Maybe for you you grab your guns and try to defend yourself, but when a drug cartel comes in that’s got more money than many corporations you got. No. Chance.
Californians and New Yorkers are leaving in droves and they are coming your way and they will vote in more of the same!
That’s what it’s like in America.
Democrats want it, again because their funding comes from interests that want America to be bankrupted and destroyed.
That’s why the silent majority is what it is.

You actual believe that the Democrats want the US bankrupt and destroyed?

Oh and defunding police and putting the money into other areas to reduce crime before it happens doesn’t equal lawlessness.

 

[evldave333]

The land of the free...

 

[Exorcet]

Imo you have bad areas that are dangerous that Americans including law enforcement avoid. Law enforcement only goes in in numbers when there’s very serious 911 calls...

The only answer imo is rooting out the gangs rooting out the meth factories rooting out the violence and establishing law order and safety.

I’m not an expert on how to do that...

I'm not an expert either and I don't have a complete solution. I just want to make sure that we look into what is happening and why before assuming we can brute force our way past our problems. If resources aren't being divided properly, adding to the total resource pool isn't necessarily a solution.

 

[Joey D]

Do you work in PD? Any FIRSTHAND knowledge? Or just anecdotal observations?

I mean it was all over the news and the police chief himself commented on it. You can also see the lot when you drive down I-15. They claim that they aren't suitable for use because they're smaller than the Ford Explorers.

I fail to understand the Libertarian position here.
No drug cartels don’t just go away when you leave them alone.

If you get rid of the war on drugs and legalize them, you put a huge damper on the black market for them. This gives cartels less power because there will be far more competition from everything from the small business owner (your friendly neighborhood weed store) to a major corporation (Coke R Us, INC).

fail to see how total lack of public safety is good for anyone. Maybe for you you grab your guns and try to defend yourself, but when a drug cartel comes in that’s got more money than many corporations you got. No. Chance.

I don't think I have to worry about a drug cartel busing down my door. Cops though, I do need to worry about them busting down my door with a no-knock warrant after they got the wrong address.

As for public safety, what exactly are cops doing? They rarely show up to a scene while a crime is in progress, they come after the fact, after the damage is done, and potentially after a victim is dead or injured. Ticketing me for mudflaps isn't doing jack for public safety. I'd rather provide my own private safety instead of relying on public safety.

Californians and New Yorkers are leaving in droves and they are coming your way and they will vote in more of the same!
That’s what it’s like in America.

New Yorkers are not coming to Utah. Californias are and it's making the state better because it's forcing out the theocracy.