The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[huskeR32]

If that is not enough to demonstrate how fake the news is about all this, I just don't know what to say.

What part of it is fake, exactly?

 

[Dotini]

It turns out social unrest and violence may be on a normal cycle. Whew! I thought there was something we could do about it, but no. For the next 10-15 years, I can look forward to the cheery glow of cars and buildings on fire and the peppery sound of gunshots in the middle distance. I may have to sacrifice my fencing classes for refresher sessions in firearms.

Collapse Terrorism Tyranny World Affairs
Civil Unrest May Last 10 – 15 Years
August 31, 2020 admin collapse
This is an interesting study: Scientist predicted current U.S. protests and riots in 2010, says civil unrest may last 10-15 years

Goldstone’s work establishes that every major social and political movement, like revolutions, take place after a surge in births. As families have more children, the population quickly exceeds the country’s ability to take care of everyone. The standard of living drops and civil unrests begins.

While overpopulation causes daily life to crumble, the model says the financial and social elite begin taking sides. Some of these people will side with protesters against the current social system they have prospered in while others continue supporting the government. Goldstone’s models show all these factors end with an eruption of violence and even civil war in some nations.

Turchin and Russian scientists are now using this work to develop models looking at how the future will play out. These forecasts focus on four major factors:

• The state (size of the government, GDP, debts, the legitimacy of power)
• Population (its size, age demographics, level of urbanization, average wages, social optimism)
• The “elites” (their population, their sources of income, their internal competition and social norms)
• Instability (radical ideologies, terrorist or revolutionary movements, acts of public violence)

None of the models will have adequately mapped the effects of climate change, resource instability and decline, or energy decline. Which means to my awareness, that the instability will last far longer then they predict. But it is no surprise that this is cyclic and overpopulation has a lot to do with it. I’ve always said that “democracy” (fairness) can only exist in a world of abundance; when anything exceeds or threatens that abundance, problems and crisis will arise.

I think we are only at the very beginning of civil unrest, I expect the situation to get dramatically worse. The anger in the streets in palpable now, and while I think much of it is misguided based on false memes, fake facts and rampant disinformation, some of it is legitimate and authentic. That is to say – there are valid reasons to be angry. Another saying of mine: if you’re well-adjusted to this society, then there is probably something wrong with your thinking.

Our society is terribly injust and getting worse. This post won’t be about those particular points, already covered many times before. We’re going to endure, and suffer through the upheavals without any respite. If science predicts that we’re right on target now for this type of disruption, that’s just one more data point to consider as we move ever forward towards whatever comes next.

Many people are ignorantly calling for civil war, but I’ll keep saying this until I can’t: they will wind up dead, shot or in prison, because the laws of this country will STILL apply, so THINK before you stupidly decide to act. Tearing this country apart is not in anyone’s best interest, not even yours.

https://survivalacres.com/blog/civil-unrest-may-last-10-15-years/

https://www.studyfinds.org/scientist-predicted-civil-unrest-riots-in-2010/

 

[Joey D]

Shot in the chest as supporters of Trump clashed with protesters against police violence and racism. I wish we had a puke emoji.
They should have listened to Chief Chuck Lovell.
If that is not enough to demonstrate how fake the news is about all this, I just don't know what to say.

All the videos I've seen show people in the back of clearly Pro-Trump pick-up trucks shooting paintball guns and what appears to be bear spray at protesters while the protesters fought back. I'm not saying the protesters were in the right, but it's not like the Trump supporters were just standing around minding their own business. So I'm not exactly sure why saying "clashed" is considered fake news since that's what was happening.

 

[Danoff]

It turns out social unrest and violence may be on a normal cycle. Whew! I thought there was something we could do about it, but no. For the next 10-15 years, I can look forward to the cheery glow of cars and buildings on fire and the peppery sound of gunshots in the middle distance. I may have to sacrifice my fencing classes for refresher sessions in firearms.

Collapse Terrorism Tyranny World Affairs
Civil Unrest May Last 10 – 15 Years
August 31, 2020 admin collapse
This is an interesting study: Scientist predicted current U.S. protests and riots in 2010, says civil unrest may last 10-15 years

Yea... no.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Man that question messed with me a bit.
But my reaction stayed the same after thinking about it.
Not enough info to judge that. Not enough info to make a personal values related judgement.
Tbh the q offended me at first because I wondered if I’m given so little credit here that you’d be thinking like this yokel thinks justice is law enforcement officers killing at will which is obviously an abhorrent idea.
I gotta give you more credit than that though after reading your previous postings.
Tough and interesting q

Hey, no yokel assumptions are being made. Hell, my upbringing in rural Maine probably makes me one of the most yokel folks on this board.

I still think that despite this particular subject being quite possibly a terrible person (+ countless other encounters with similar results), it's important that the system of justice & enforcement does not go down in the ditch with the criminals, hopefully our institutions can stay honorable.

 

[UKMikey]

This is an interesting study: Scientist predicted current U.S. protests and riots in 2010, says civil unrest may last 10-15 years

"Protests and riots"... although the number of riots is less than a fifth the number of protests. Thanks for the proof that the vast majority of protests aren't riots, though.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

What part of it is fake, exactly?

All the videos I've seen show people in the back of clearly Pro-Trump pick-up trucks shooting paintball guns and what appears to be bear spray at protesters while the protesters fought back. I'm not saying the protesters were in the right, but it's not like the Trump supporters were just standing around minding their own business. So I'm not exactly sure why saying "clashed" is considered fake news since that's what was happening.

There was NO clashing going on as the guy was shot in the chest.

The two guys were walking down a peaceful street. You can hear people pointing them out, yelling, over here, they're over here. Then you hear two gunshots, and see the shooter run off.

This did not happen as they were clashing like the fake news says.

 

[Joey D]

There was NO clashing going on as the guy was shot in the chest.

The two guys were walking down a peaceful street. You can hear people pointing them out, yelling, over here, they're over here. Then you hear two gunshots, and see the shooter run off.

This did not happen as they were clashing like the fake news says.

The article says "as Trump supporters clashed with protesters" It doesn't say the person shot was clashing with protesters, just that there was a confrontation going on between the two groups. As a result of the confrontation, a person was murdered.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Good lord I hope this stops escalating.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

murdered

At least you admit he was murdered, that's a start.

The videos of the clashing, the trucks and the bear spray and paintballs were all filmed in the daytime. The guy was shot at night.

 

[huskeR32]

There was NO clashing going on as the guy was shot in the chest.

Joey covered this above.

The two guys were walking down a peaceful street. You can hear people pointing them out, yelling, over here, they're over here. Then you hear two gunshots, and see the shooter run off.

This doesn't make you a least a little curious as to what might have happened prior to that moment? Why were people looking for them? Why were they a known entity? ("They're over here.") Obviously nothing justifies murdering somebody, but it looks like there very well could be more to the story than a couple of quiet, anonymous boy scouts walking down the street getting attacked out of nowhere.

You yourself said that people should listen to Chief Lovell, yeah? Chief Lovell is saying that people shouldn't jump to conclusions here. So why are you?

This did not happen as they were clashing like the fake news says.

What if it happened right after clashing? Every time a black man gets shot, seems like all we talk about is what the person did before that moment, as if it justified their death. There are several reports emerging about the victim running around macing a bunch of people shortly before the shooting. Does that not enter the conversation when the victim is white/conservative?

To be clear, from what we know at the moment, this appears to be a clear case of murder, and should be investigated and prosecuted as such. But it feels like we're already seeing a sudden (and predictable) reversal from the folks who usually like to sit around and bring up past actions to justify murder when the victim isn't "normal."

 

[Joey D]

At least you admit he was murdered, that's a start.

The videos of the clashing, the trucks and the bear spray and paintballs were all filmed in the daytime. The guy was shot at night.

Why is surprising that I say they were murdered? Getting shot like that and dying is murder, it's calling a spade a spade.

But I agree with @huskeR32, I don't think we know all the details right now, but on the surface, it does look like he was murdered. Could he have done something beforehand? Maybe, but self-defense and firearm laws apply to everyone.

 

[Dotini]

Has a martyr been created? Several? Armed groups have been courting confrontation at locations around the nation. Once this gets kicked off in earnest it may be too late to stop. It may be too late to stop now.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Has a martyr been created? Several? Armed groups have been courting confrontation at locations around the nation. Once this gets kicked off in earnest it may be too late to stop. It may be too late to stop now.

Your glee is showing again Dotini.

Donald Trump needs to appeal for calm, deescalation, and unconditional unity, I think that would certainly help things. I'm afraid he will instead appeal for further division.

 

[Joey D]

Donald Trump needs to appeal for calm, deescalation, and unconditional unity, I think that would certainly help things. I'm afraid he will instead appeal for further division.

That's sort of what his campaign is running on unfortunately. He keeps claiming that what's going on right now is Biden's America, which I'm not sure how anyone buys, but apparently a ton of people do. We have no idea what Biden's America would look like, I assume there'd be division but past that no one knows.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

An account from a medic on site:

She seems to have deleted her account.

Disclaimer: I don't know if her claims are true.

 

[Dotini]

Your glee is showing again Dotini.

Donald Trump needs to appeal for calm, deescalation, and unconditional unity, I think that would certainly help things. I'm afraid he will instead appeal for further division.

No doubt. But the TV press reported yesterday that the DOJ, DHS and FBI are investigating the incident at Portland and possibly elsewhere, with a view to making arrests.

 

[UKMikey]

An account from a medic on site:
View attachment 954498

She seems to have deleted her account.

Or renamed it.

 

[McLaren]

Accusations the victim was provoking people.

Videographer Justin Dunlap was filming live late Saturday, casually noting new artwork on buildings as most of the day’s violence appeared to have ended when he suddenly turned toward shouting.
.....
Dunlap said that the victim had earlier maced people, and someone could be heard on his video shouting that the victim was a “mother****** who has been pushing people and jumping people the entire time.”

“That guy has been ******* with people the entire time,” he shouted.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/30/video...-patriot-prayer-cap-during-portland-protests/

His friend supports he had mace on him.

On Saturday night, Joey Gibson, the founder of Patriot Prayer, shared a truck bed with Aaron Danielson at a pro-Trump rally.

But hours later, Danielson, better known as Jay to his friends, was shot dead in downtown Portland.

Danielson was killed in the street near Southwest 3rd Avenue and Alder Street.

“Two bullets. One bullet hits a bear mace can, the other hits him in the chest, and he’s done,” Gibson said.

Completely ignore that the group he was with, "Patriot Prayer" has a history of antagonizing.

Patriot Prayer, a local group that says it promotes Christianity and smaller government, has repeatedly clashed with activists in Portland. The group has at times operated alongside militia groups, and the Southern Poverty Law Center has reported that some Patriot Prayer events have drawn white supremacists. Last year, Mr. Gibson, the group’s leader, was charged along with others with rioting after a brawl in the city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/30/us/portland-trump-rally-shooting.html

Or that the victim & the man he was seen with had paintball guns, mace, & knives, & inviting violence.

Chandler Pappas and the now deceased associate — whom police have not yet publicly identified — arrived together at the Clackamas Town Center mall parking lot around 4 p.m. Saturday, both wearing matching Patriot Prayer hats, visibly armed with at least one paint ball gun, knives, mace and bearing other tactical gear.

At the Clackamas mall parking lot serving as a staging ground for the Trump 2020 car parade to downtown Portland, Pappas indicated to the Tribune that he and his associate were there to perform security services, though it's not clear if they were invited or, as is often common at protests, simply volunteered. Organizers had called for participants to not openly carry firearms during the Trump event.

"I'm here to stop people from assaulting these people," Pappas said, referring to the Trump caravan.

He was even more blunt at a dueling counter protest outside Gresham City Hall spurred by the city's Black Lives Matter flag on Wednesday, Aug. 26.

Again armed with a paintball gun, Pappas said "I came here ready for war" and warned a counter-protester "I'll drop you on your ******* head."

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/...t-portland-protest-linked-to-trump-cruise-in-

There were accounts that the parade left the intended route & went into downtown.

From Highway 99 vehicles turned onto the Morrison Bridge and exited on to Interstate 5. Organizers planned to loop around downtown from I-5 to I-405.

Then around 6:45 p.m., the route shifted from Interstate 5 and into downtown. The cars wove through different streets downtown, including past the Multnomah County Justice Center, the heart of nightly Black Lives Matter protests that began 94 days ago.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland...d-of-planned-portland-rally-live-updates.html

By the arguments made in here recently, this was a justified shooting. Guy's out bear macing people, seen in a group of people shooting paintball guns at others, and someone eventually shot in self-defense. Or is self-defense only applicable if a plastic bag with a bottle & fists are threatened against you? No wait, it's justified if the people you shoot have been arrested before. My mistake.


In actuality, like the Kenosha shootings, I find both completely unnecessary & were both perfectly avoidable. But, what we have here is second instance of someone playing security guard, & going into a known hostile area. The difference is I don't think Rittenhouse went looking for trouble, but Patriot Prayer has an active history of doing just that as noted by the comment about Trump supporting cars weaving through downtown, clearly knowing they'd be met with resistance for provoking people.

And what's a good shoe-on-the-other-foot example than Trump sending "RIP" to the victim, but commenting that Kyle Rittenhouse looked like he was shooting in self-defense.

 

[Dotini]

Reporting on the Portland incident from the Seattle Times:

By
Hal Bernton
and
Lewis Kamb
Seattle Times staff reporters

PORTLAND — On Saturday evening, freelance photographer Nathan Howard phoned his fiancée from a downtown street after a chaotic few hours chronicling run-ins between a motor caravan of supporters of President Donald Trump and people protesting their presence. There had been paintball guns shot off, rocks thrown and some scuffles and pepper spray.

But shortly before 9 p.m. on this city block things appeared to be settling down. So, while on the phone, Howard didn’t think too much of two men he noticed talking in the middle of the street.

“It was possible that it was tense, but just quietly tense,” recalled Howard, a Vancouver, Washington, photographer who was on assignment that night for Getty Images.

Then, Howard heard shots. He cut short his conversation and dashed over.

The brief encounter between the two men on Third Avenue Southwest ended with one man dead, whom Portland police identified Monday as 39-year-old Aaron J. Danielson. His death came amid more than 90 days of protests in Portland, and in August, more frequent encounters between supporters of police from the right, and militant opponents of police violence.

Danielson was a supporter of the right-wing Patriot Prayer group. His killing has shaken people in Portland and the nation during a tumultuous period of protests that also brought bloodshed to Kenosha, Wisconsin, where two men were fatally shot Aug. 25 amid demonstrations after the police shooting of a Black man, Jacob Blake. A 17-year-old from Illinois has been charged in the killings.


In Portland, a Police Bureau homicide unit is investigating Danielson’s death while Oregon State Police are assigned to the city to bolster law enforcement. Police have not officially identified a suspect.

Howard’s account, and video taken at the scene, offer more insights into the slaying and its aftermath.

A video taken by a Portland protest livestreamer, Justin Dunlap, captured the moment the shooting occurred.

He told The Oregonian he saw a cloud of spray in the air and then “half-a-second later, there were two pops.”

Dunlap told The Seattle Times Monday evening he was less than a half block away from the shooting as he took the video. He believed the shooting victim was shouting toward two men crossing the street.

Then, Dunlap said, “I saw the victim bring his right hand up in a motion that looked like he was raising something off his hip. And then the bear mace just erupted and then the shots rang out.”

Dunlap said he couldn’t tell where the shots came from, but saw the two men who’d been crossing the street running away in the opposite direction.

After the gunfire, Danielson staggers a short distance and collapses face-down on the street, the video shows.

Another man rushes toward the gunshot victim. He wears a long-sleeved white shirt and jeans and carries what appears to be a can of mace. This man calls out: “You OK?” according to another video, taken from a closer angle, that has since been posted on social media.
Two bystanders, a man and a woman, soon arrive. The woman, whom Howard later identified as Sierra Boyne, knelt beside the wounded man. She brought with her a bag with medical supplies.

In the video, the man who first came to the victim’s side shoves Boyne away, yelling: “Get the (expletive) out of here.”

Boyne quickly returns, and tells the man: “Sir, I’m a medic. I just want to help.”


“Help! Help then,” the man says.

That man was Chandler Pappas, a Patriot Prayer supporter, who later gave his account of the shooting in a video interview with Andrew Duncomb, a conservative journalist and supporter of President Donald Trump who earlier this summer was stabbed while covering a Portland protest.

In the interview with Duncomb, Pappas said he thought the shooter “was looking for someone to hurt,” and that he and his friend were singled out because they were wearing Patriot Prayer hats. Pappas said he feared that he also would get shot.

After the shooting, Pappas said Danielson had no pulse. He said he briefly argued with “antifa medics,” saying he was wary of their motives before realizing they wanted to assist. He said “some of them, to their credit, really do try to go out there and help people… They came to intervene and tried to effect whatever kind of help they could.”


Police respond
The video shot by Dunlap shows Boyne offering medical aid for just under 20 seconds. She applies pressure to the wound, and reaches into her bag.

Then police arrive.

“Move back. Move back,” an officer orders, before pulling Boyne up and kicking her medical bag across the sidewalk.

Howard, the photographer, said the man on the ground was still struggling to breathe. He said Boyne tried to return to give information to police about the wound, but an officer used a baton to push her back.

Howard said that a short time later — he estimated 20 seconds — a police medic arrived to work on the wounded man.

By then, police were setting up the area as a crime scene and pushing people away.

Howard, along with some other photographers, made their way into a parking garage above the crime scene, and captured the final struggle to save the man’s life. An ambulance came, then left, with the man still lying on the pavement.


“We knew at that point he had died,” Howard said.

Howard said he watched the man who had initially come to the aid of the shooting victim, later identified as Pappas, start to get yelled at by some of the protesters. He got up and ran toward them. Police restrained him, tearing his shirt.

“People are dying”
Howard’s photographs of the shooting aftermath offered searing images of the violent Saturday night that were widely published online and in newspapers. Raised in Redmond, Howard, 29, worked at The Columbian in Vancouver until he was laid off in the spring and embarked on a freelance career that by late May became focused on chronicling the Portland protests.

The day after the shooting, Howard was back on the streets of Portland, taking photographs of an evening rally that pitted several hundred protesters against the Portland police.

“This really made clear that tensions are going to ratchet up,” Howard said. I’m taking rest where I can get it, because I’m not sure what is going to happen next.”

The Seattle Times was unable to reach Boyne, the woman who came to the aid of the gunshot victim, for comment.

In her Twitter bio, Boyne describes herself as “a tired college student and aspiring model with a lot of things to say. Black Lives Matter. No Justice? No Peace.”

During an interview in late July, Boyne described to a KOIN 6 TV news reporter how she began participating in Portland’s Black Lives Matter protests early on this spring, offering first aid. She did not detail her medical experience, but made it clear she had been assisting injured people.

“I figured this is a very important cause and it’s one worth fighting for, and I felt like my skills are best used as first-aid relief and medical relief,” Boyne said.

Boyne posted tweets Sunday saying that she barely had time to begin examining the wounded man before she was pushed away. “That man was alive when I left and it will haunt me the rest of my life,” she wrote.

In his video interview, Pappas offered a stark assessment of the impact of the shooting.

“This is now past the point of civil conversation,” Pappas said. “People are dying, and when people start dying, then people want to protect themselves. People who are still alive say, ‘I don’t want that to be me.'”

 

[huskeR32]

He keeps claiming that what's going on right now is Biden's America, which I'm not sure how anyone buys, but apparently a ton of people do.

They spent the entire eight years of Obama's presidency throwing out countless "Can you imagine if {insert Republican} did {insert thing Obama did/said}?" At some point, it clearly became acceptable to treat what-ifs and hypotheticals as reality.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

There were accounts that the parade left the intended route & went into downtown.

I read in an article that the police accidentally blocked off the intended route, but I can't find the article now.

 

[McLaren]

I read in an article that the police accidentally blocked off the intended route, but I can't find the article now.

Correlates to some Reddit comments I saw mentioning a police road block that allowed them go downtown, but I thought the commenters were being extremists with the way they described it.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Correlates to some Reddit comments I saw mentioning a police road block that allowed them go downtown, but I thought the commenters were being extremists with the way they described it.

Maybe the article got the info from reddit? I can't find it now. I checked my history. This is going to bother me.

 

[ryzno]

An account from a medic on site:
View attachment 954498

She seems to have deleted her account.

Disclaimer: I don't know if her claims are true.

Or renamed it.

Sounds legit...

 

[DesertPenguin]

Seems like a non-issue

 

[ryzno]

Seems like a non-issue

What a fake account?
The whole situation?

 

[TexRex]

Sounds legit...

What a fake account?
The whole situation?

Repeated use of the name Sierra and the same profile picture; that'd be a rather weak attempt at deception.

Video of the incident supports the story. Cops kick away medical supplies and disperse individuals attending to the victim. Language inappropriate for GTP is audible and the scene is graphic, though nothing particularly graphic is visible...I've opted to not embed directly just to be safe. Tweet

The "she" referred to in the clip is likely Sierra.

Picture depicting a black woman attending to the victim, she's likely the aforementioned "she," who is likely Sierra. Nothing particularly graphic is visible but it does show the deceased. Pic

This may not be the hill you want to die on.

 

[DesertPenguin]

https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/de...violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/

 

[ryzno]

Uh hu. Let's defund the police so the anarchist can really play!