The definitive GT5 transmission tuning guide.

[grenadeshark]

Yeah no kidding there buddy we also are doing acceleration test.

Your tossing the Beemer up f-Ed up the simplicity of these test as I'm bouncing 2 cars with 2 tunes.

I'm going to set aside the Beemer because you want me to look at the Volvo.

So one sec, but I would suggest you try out the 3.967 FD as I do so.

I've yet to drive the car, leaving Bob break it in and wanting the program to produce the tune, that's why the 3 FD's with different uses.

4.441
3.967
3.492

Il jump in for a drive now and put the Beemer down for the moment.

You have to take your spoiler off your car for my tune to work. That might be the problem...

 

[grenadeshark]

I just tested your 3.967, my car happily left it in its dust again. I can make a youtube video if you want... Take off the spoiler...

 

[AssassinTuner]

You have to take your spoiler off your car for my tune to work. That might be the problem...

I haven't run the Volvo, yet (I am now) that was with the Beemer, it's wingless.

Sorry if that got mixed up.

The Beener bogs down to 3000rpm, I haven't run a launch on the Volvo yet.

 

[grenadeshark]

Here is a video of the acceleration test from SS7, your car versus my ghost. Nothing changed but the transmission settings. This was your "balanced" tune. Your top speed was 2 mph under mine. Other then that, we weren't far off each other outside of the initial 5th- 6th gear pull I had over your car.

 

[AssassinTuner]

Here is a video of the acceleration test from SS7, your car versus my ghost. Nothing changed but the transmission settings. This was your "balanced" tune. Your top speed was 2 mph under mine. Other then that, we weren't far off each other outside of the initial 5th- 6th gear pull I had over your car.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhNZgbw0jio">YouTube Link</a>

I hit 170mph with my Top Speed FD

I hit 169 with your car. I accelerated faster with a lower shift point, yours like shifting a bit higher, mine accelerated faster.

Your set up seems to match up with my Top Speed FD, makes sense you tuned it at Daytona. But I just want to be sure you haven't hit faster then 169mph incase I need a oil change.

 

[grenadeshark]

I hit 170mph with my Top Speed FD

I hit 169 with your car. I accelerated faster with a lower shift point, yours like shifting a bit higher, mine accelerated faster.

Your set up seems to match up with my Top Speed FD, makes sense you tuned it at Daytona. But I just want to be sure you haven't hit faster then 169mph incase I need a oil change.

169 was my tune for daytona. Not ss7. But, yes it was what I hit on SS7 while tuning the car for Daytona...

I have another video from my point of view with your ghost.

I have yet to see one race where any of your tunes outruns mine. Please explain to me how your car is accelerating faster....

Here is my car with your ghost now..

Btw, use MY SHIFT POINTs, not whatever you come up with...



Well your balanced tune and your acceleration tune both get pulled on by my every track tune.

 

[AssassinTuner]

169 was my tune for daytona. Not ss7. I have another video from my point of view with your ghost.

I have yet to see one race where any of your tunes outruns mine. Please explain to me how your car is accelerating faster....

Here is my car with your ghost now..

Btw, use MY SHIFT POINTs, not whatever you come up with...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPhgiVW83u4">YouTube Link</a>

Umm I'm pulling 170mph at ssr7 and it gets there quicker. I can make vid if you want, I'll put something together. Shifting IS important with this car, where do you want me to shift at? That's probably why you pulled on me, bad shifts in my car or FD not catered to top speed.

Use 3.492 if we are running Top Speed, mind you for track racing 162 is better to gear the car to, as she won't make it to 169 or 170 anywhere other then ssr7 & Daytona.

 

[grenadeshark]

Your lower final drive tune pulled on me through 5th gear only to get pulled back in on 6th. I was not able to see the final results as of yet.

 

[grenadeshark]

Umm I'm pulling 170mph at ssr7 and it gets there quicker. I can make vid if you want, I'll put something together. Shifting IS important with this car, where do you want me to shift at? That's probably why you pulled on me, bad shifts in my car or FD not catered to top speed.

Use 3.492 if we are running Top Speed, mind you for track racing 162 is better to gear the car to, as she won't make it to 169 or 170 anywhere other then ssr7 & Daytona.

That's not what I am seeing. I am seeing your car pull on me only to get pulled back in with your FD 3.492 tune. This car doesn't do well in high RPMs. I shifted early in the last video on your car. Watch the shift points.

On another note, that is your best tune by far. But, mine is balanced all around. I just ran against my ghost and I was not able to catch up any time despite you getting 1 mph faster on the back straight. The only thing I can account for is differences in driving and maybe slight differences in gearing/rpms of our two setups.

 

[AssassinTuner]

When? When I'm doing 170mph and your doing 169mph? You can't shift these 2 gearboxes at the same place they are not geared the same. Shifting my car at your gearbox shift points will screw my car in the middle, but in the end it will still cruise by regardless at 170mph... If you shift right, it will just sit in front, and as we reach speed, just pull away (slowly) but further and further.

So I ask, When do you want me to shift your car, without looking in the vid, tell me when to shift and I will if you don't like how I'm shifting.

 

[grenadeshark]

When? When I'm doing 170mph and your doing 169mph? You can't shift these 2 gearboxes at the same place they are not geared the same. Shifting my car at your gearbox shift points will screw my car in the middle, but in the end it will still cruise by regardless at 170mph... If you shift right, it will just sit in front, and as we reach speed, just pull away (slowly) but further and further.

So I ask, When do you want me to shift your car, without looking in the vid, tell me when to shift and I will if you don't like how I'm shifting.

I already told you my shift points. 7300, 7300, 7300, 7200, 7000.

Yours are definitely lower. When I changed your fifth to 6th from about 7000 to 65/6600 it definitely helped it out.

Please tell me what you want me to shift YOUR car at?

P.S. Its distance and time that determines how fast a car is, not mph. I am testing right now to see why I didn't catch up with my car even though you definitely had a 1 mph top speed. I have a feeling I got to my speed a bit quicker. I could be wrong...

On another note, your 5th gear is definitely better then mine. I like where your 6th gears power band is as well. That's what I was trying to get, but could never make the gears fit.

 

[AssassinTuner]

I already told you my shift points. 7300, 7300, 7300, 7200, 7000.

Yours are definitely lower. When I changed your fifth to 6th from about 7000 to 65/6600 it definitely helped it out.

Please tell me what you want me to shift YOUR car at?

Lol I just did a lap racing your ghost against your tune and 3 out of 5 times it looked like your Tune was spanking your Tune the other 2 the Ghost of your Tune was spanking your Tune.

What would this show if I made a video of This?

I find we hit markers at the same speed when shifting high for you, lower for me. Interesting.

Your shifting high up there, just like I thought (as I said, your car likes high shifts) Let me get back into mine.

 

[grenadeshark]

Lol I just did a lap racing your ghost against your tune and 3 out of 5 times it looked like your Tune was spanking your Tune the other 2 the Ghost of your Tune was spanking your Tune.

What would this show if I made a video of This?

I find we hit markers at the same speed when shifting high for you, lower for me. Interesting.

Your shifting high up there, just like I thought (as I said, your car likes high shifts) Let me get back into mine.

I am not even sure what you said just there. But, I congratulate you on your high speed tune as it was better then mine. Just for giggles I tested it on daytona and it was basically a wash.

I am pretty happy that my every track tune managed to do so well against 3 tunes tailored by math!

On another note, I've asked you for your shift points already. If you can give them to me, I can make better quality videos

 

[AssassinTuner]

Ohh my bad.

I haven't calculated shift points yet, hers what I've been using with the too speed FD.

1 - 2 at 48mph (yes let her go)

2 - 3 at 7200rpm

3 - 4 at 7000 rpm

4 - 5 at 6500 rpm

5 - 6 at 6000 rpm


When doing this, I see better acceleration all the way to top speed.

 

[grenadeshark]

Ohh my bad.

I haven't calculated shift points yet, hers what I've been using with the too speed FD.

1 - 2 at 48mph (yes let her go)

2 - 3 at 7200rpm

3 - 4 at 7000 rpm

4 - 5 at 6500 rpm

5 - 6 at 6000 rpm


When doing this, I see better acceleration all the way to top speed.

Well, I changed two numbers and managed to hit 170 as well. But, your car definitely out accelerates me in 5th gear every time. In 6th gear, we are dead even. 1st-4th I have a hare on you (from a roll, I think i win pretty easily from a stop).

Anyways, that's a quality high speed tune regardless. I am not as excited about the other two tunes as they don't bring anything to the table. They are not any faster through 5th gear and they are slower top end.

The fact of the matter is that this car sucks above 6k RPMs and we have to use transmission gearing to exploit that.

I am heading out for the night for real this time. I'll be back tomorrow.

If you don't mind testing your FD 3.492 versus my all tracks tune in your other tests, that would be nice.

On another note, I changed my shift points up a bit. 7300, 7300 7100, 7100, 6900.

 

[AssassinTuner]

I made the video you asked for

I'm driving my car yours is a ghost using your shift points. I'm not worried and move over to the side to get a little side by side ghost action, then look what happened every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6EDHcOyGMA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You made me do it.

 

[shirakawaa]

Are you people accounting for engine and transmission inertia, losses in each gear (which rise proportionally with rpm), losses at the differential and joints (which rise proportionally with speed)? These factors, although small when taken individually, lower optimal shift points and cannot be calculated easily as the game doesn't provide public data for them. Surprisingly (as several other aspects of car dynamics/physics in GT5 have very noticeable flaws) GT5 appears to take them into account.

This is by the way one of the reasons why a power limited engine in GT5 with a flat power curve doesn't perform as well as theoretically calculated (with a spreadsheet and gear and torque/power curves) at higher rpm.

In the end, the best way to determine optimal shift points is to do that empirically by measuring acceleration in each gear instant by instant (by doing "sweep runs" from low to high rpm) and see at what speeds the measured acceleration curves in each gear cross.

 

[AssassinTuner]

Are you people accounting for engine and transmission inertia, losses in each gear (which rise proportionally with rpm), losses at the differential and joints (which rise proportionally with speed)? These factors, although small when taken individually, lower optimal shift points and cannot be calculated easily as the game doesn't provide public data for them. Surprisingly (as several other aspects of car dynamics/physics in GT5 have very noticeable flaws) GT5 appears to take them into account.

This is by the way one of the reasons why a power limited engine in GT5 with a flat power curve doesn't perform as well as theoretically calculated (with a spreadsheet and gear and torque/power curves) at higher rpm.

In the end, the best way to determine optimal shift points is to do that empirically by measuring acceleration in each gear instant by instant (by doing "sweep runs" from low to high rpm) and see at what speeds the measured acceleration curves in each gear cross.

Yup in the end you can use tq, hp, or a few other ways.

We are WAY past that & now comparing end results of Gear Tuning.

As it stands my Gear set accelerates & goes faster on Top Speed Runs, from Stand still & Rolling Start (it's not a race from a standstill) but that's not the entire picture.

While my set goes faster and better uses gears around Tracks with corners (first is too long for Grenadesharks set) it's more torque down low and while this is good for going faster, Grenadesharks set is easier to manage I assume this trait would only get more clear and prevalent as the Hp figures rise, making it's use on Hyper powered cars potentially beneficial to Drivers still getting used to high power and no TCS. The only Problem with that is this will only be good for cars with big low end power. Cars like the Beemer, This method crippled. I'll post a vid up of how terrible first gear is later.

It's late and we been at it for a while, I'm going to chill out for a bit.

@ Grenadeshark
Both the balanced FD and Top Speed FD out perform the competition, except for 4.441 This will get to 150mph faster, but falls behind as speeds near 155 - 160 after 162 you leave it in the Dust. However take em both to 90% of the Tracks in GT5 and you won't ever get to speeds fast enough for it to matter. The extra acceleration before 150mph churns faster laps. The balanced FD maxes out at 167mph but again on 90% of Tracks this car won't even hit 165mph making 167 & 170 irrelevant.

The balanced FD overall is the best UNLESS doing Top Speed Runs.

Been at Fuji & Nurb GP/F running laps.

 

[grenadeshark]

Yup in the end you can use tq, hp, or a few other ways.

We are WAY past that & now comparing end results of Gear Tuning.

As it stands my Gear set accelerates & goes faster on Top Speed Runs, from Stand still & Rolling Start (it's not a race from a standstill) but that's not the entire picture.

While my set goes faster and better uses gears around Tracks with corners (first is too long for Grenadesharks set) it's more torque down low and while this is good for going faster, Grenadesharks set is easier to manage I assume this trait would only get more clear and prevalent as the Hp figures rise, making it's use on Hyper powered cars potentially beneficial to Drivers still getting used to high power and no TCS. The only Problem with that is this will only be good for cars with big low end power. Cars like the Beemer, This method crippled. I'll post a vid up of how terrible first gear is later.

It's late and we been at it for a while, I'm going to chill out for a bit.

@ Grenadeshark
Both the balanced FD and Top Speed FD out perform the competition, except for 4.441 This will get to 150mph faster, but falls behind as speeds near 155 - 160 after 162 you leave it in the Dust. However take em both to 90% of the Tracks in GT5 and you won't ever get to speeds fast enough for it to matter. The extra acceleration before 150mph churns faster laps. The balanced FD maxes out at 167mph but again on 90% of Tracks this car won't even hit 165mph making 167 & 170 irrelevant.

The balanced FD overall is the best UNLESS doing Top Speed Runs.

Been at Fuji & Nurb GP/F running laps.

Well its funny how in your testing my car lacks and in my testing your car lacks. Even when I changed the shift points...

I disagree with most of your points. Especially the bit about your gearset being better for turns. My 2nd gear will suit a very large range of corners from super slow to only midly slow. It also allows you to get on the gas sooner and not worry nearly as much about traction issues.

Almost every person I have given a car to said their car "handled better" when I didn't even change a single suspension setting. The reason being is the gear sets I provide are USABLE in racing as is. Your putting too much of your points based off of the BMW tune that I put together in 10 minutes while I was waiting for you to get done. The volvo doesn't have any of the problems you are talking about and in my testing, met or beat every one of your tunes outside of the F/D 3.492 tune where my car performed better across the board outside of 150-169 where yours won by tenths of a second.

I went through a lot of effort to document my tests being equal and I even asked for your shift points to help your cars do better after you claimed I wasn't doing it right. All I have seen from you is a bunch of hearsay.

Your early gears are rubbish and useless. My cars are built to almost never have to get into 1st gear more then once a track (indy non withstanding). On those tracks, I regear a bit anyways. There is no point in downshifting into first and blowing your tires off when you can stay in second and get better acceleration since the amount of power being sent to the wheels does not immediately overpower them.

Get PSN. Otherwise your claims of your cars outdoing mine are invalid to me. My testing proves otherwise.

EDIT

Watching your video, I see that you hit 160 mph around 37.758 seconds. Give or take half a second.

In my testing, I hit 160 @ 37.483 seconds. Give or take half a second. I find this ackward as in your video, I am substantially behind you. Yet, on my screen, I would be ahead of you... This is what I am talking about. There is something that is not right here. All my testing shows one thing. When I watch YOUR video, it shows me the same thing I am seeing. Then you are telling me your testing is showing me behind you. You are doing something wrong with my tune.

I just tested this another 6-7 times and I cannot get your car even with your shift points to outrun me to 160. 150 sure, you generally win by half a second or so. At 160, we are dead even or I am a bit ahead. That is using YOUR shift points. I am not comparing ghosts. I am comparing how long it takes to get to 160 mph via the Total time in the top right corner. The ghosts already say what I am saying. But the timer is showing me the same as well.

Our cars are very close and on a race track with draft, it would not be noticeable which one is faster. But, all these tests you keep bringing up are in direct contradiction to the evidence I am gathering. That's all I am saying.

 

[AssassinTuner]

Moved

 

[grenadeshark]

Achooo, sorry allergies.



Yup and it sit ahead of your car on the Track from then on......



No we are not, your car is behind my car AND STAYS THERE, never coming beside me again...... Sitting in my rearview....



Thanks

Btw, for all your talking about my first gear...

On your medium tune. 55 mph in 1st
On your top end tune. 62 mph in 1st
On my every track tune. 63 mph in 1st.

The power being sent to the wheels is nearly the same with our gearing sets.

By the way I just did some 160 mph testing. Here is what I came up with

Your top end tune. Using shift points 7200, 7000, 6500, 6000
38.066 to 160

Your medium tune.
37.966 to 160

My every car tune.
37.750 to 160

Now, I am telling you, that you are doing something wrong on my tune. My car is running slower then it should be. There is no way that even when I use your shift points and my car still beats yours to 160 that I am behind you on your screen unless you are doing something wrong...

The only thing I can think of is shift points. Try shifting a bit earlier and see if that helps a bit. I told you my shift points, but I don't always follow them. I listen to the engine and that's when I know to shift.

 

[CSLACR]

Your medium tune.
37.966 to 160

In Assasin's video it hits 160 at the 37.600 mark.

You guys know neither of you is ever going to be convinced by any of this right?

 

[AssassinTuner]

Well its funny how in your testing my car lacks and in my testing your car lacks. Even when I changed the shift points...

Even YOU admit from 5th I pull away from you.....

I disagree with most of your points. Especially the bit about your gearset being better for turns. My 2nd gear will suit a very large range of corners from super slow to only midly slow. It also allows you to get on the gas sooner and not worry nearly as much about traction issues.

Your extended 1st makes this all BS. Your 1st is longer then it need be for no reason. My set is better suited to low speed corners by far. Take a few laps around a Track and it's evident. Yours is only easier to drive, but slower down low if you know how to handle the power. Yours gets even worse on R tires, try it out, mine works fine.

Almost every person I have given a car to said their car "handled better" when I didn't even change a single suspension setting. The reason being is the gear sets I provide are USABLE in racing as is.

What does that have to do with anything, we are comparing the Volvo, I got plenty of people liking my Tunes, I got the PMs thanking me for my Tunes. That's really irrelevant.

Your putting too much of your points based off of the BMW tune that I put together in 10 minutes while I was waiting for you to get done. The volvo doesn't have any of the problems you are talking about and in my testing, met or beat every one of your tunes outside of the F/D 3.492 tune where my car performed better across the board outside of 150-169 where yours won by tenths of a second.

Nope again wrong (although the M3 is a joke) maybe when you were fubaring the shifting, but when you shift right (as I've tested) the video is repeated with 3.967, but as I said it tops off at 167mph

I went through a lot of effort to document my tests being equal and I even asked for your shift points to help your cars do better after you claimed I wasn't doing it right. All I have seen from you is a bunch of hearsay.

Exactly, and when you did it right using MY shift points, not the ones you used on your gear set, it became...

But, your car definitely out accelerates me in 5th gear every time.

Your early gears are rubbish and useless. My cars are built to almost never have to get into 1st gear more then once on the Track

Aside from extreme low speed hairpins and getting off the line my first is not used at all, like it's supposed to be. Rubbish? I get in front of you don't I, you don't even have a clue of what your running your mouth about...

On those tracks, I regear a bit anyways. There is no point in downshifting into first and blowing your tires off

Blah blah blah, big whoop, my first gear tops off at a lower speed then yours it's IMPOSSIBLE for my set to use first around a Track more then your set your set is more probable to fall into first around a Track

Get PSN. Otherwise your claims of your cars outdoing mine are invalid to me. My testing proves otherwise

Not by your own admittance, YOU NEVER get close to me after 5th gear, it's all over from that point on.

From 5th gear on YOU LOSE, Simple As That!

Achooo, sorry allergies.

But, your car definitely out accelerates me in 5th gear every time.

Yup and it sit ahead of your car on the Track from then on......

In 6th gear, we are dead even. 1st-4th I have a hare on you (from a roll, I think i win pretty easily from a stop).

No we are not, your car is behind my car AND STAYS THERE, never coming beside me again...... Sitting in my rearview....

Anyways, that's a quality high speed tune regardless.

Thanks


You want another video??? Okay, gimme a minute, you asked for it....

 

[grenadeshark]

You guys know neither of you is ever going to be convinced by any of this right?

Well, I agree with that. But, I haven't seen him concede on anything since this whole thing has started...

He doesn't read what I write and then his "tests" show data that doesn't correspond with my "testing". I am to the point where I am just going to be happy that my tune works great and in my opinion, outperforms his as an overall tune.

 

[CSLACR]

Well, I agree with that. But, I haven't seen him concede on anything since this whole thing has started...

He doesn't read what I write and then his "tests" show data that doesn't correspond with my "testing". I am to the point where I am just going to be happy that my tune works great and in my opinion, outperforms his as an overall tune.

There is no "perfect" tune.
Take a look at the WRS sometime, I think we've got 5 tunes running, and nobody insists their tune best, as different drivers even of the same skill level still look for different things.

You can drag race all day to claim "best gearing", but there's still driver error involved, and straight line speed is only part of a race cars gearing setup, a higher portion is how your gears effect turn exits, on specific tracks.

Don't get me wrong, drag racing is lots of fun, but it won't give a definitive answer to whose gearing is "best".

 

[grenadeshark]

There is no "perfect" tune.
Take a look at the WRS sometime, I think we've got 5 tunes running, and nobody insists their tune best, as different drivers even of the same skill level still look for different things.

You can drag race all day to claim "best gearing", but there's still driver error involved, and straight line speed is only part of a race cars gearing setup, a higher portion is how your gears effect turn exits, on specific tracks.

Don't get me wrong, drag racing is lots of fun, but it won't give a definitive answer to whose gearing is "best".

I just made 3 videos. That is going to put my side of the argument to rest. I will be done after I upload these. 3 time trials with the 3 different tunes in question. Please, find some way to tell them these videos are BS... Even if you take my reaction time into account, this puts all of our cars at the exact same place on the track at about the exact same time. There is no way you could have 2-3 car lengths on me.

EDIT. I am just waiting for the BS that is about to come out of your mouth to disprove this one.
On another note, just pause the video yourself when you see 160. Don't trust me. You can pause it before I hit the start button. Shows the exact same thing I said above.

Video 1. My tune 37.333 to 160

Video 2. His medium tune. 38.006 to 160

Video 3. His high end tune. 38.216 to 160

 

[AssassinTuner]

This will put it to rest...

First run YOUR Tune

Second Run My Tune with a 3.967 FD

Watch it passing you, I did YOU first right after a oil change and car wash, left mine as is after your run, just with my Gears...

Jokes anybody can jump in them an repeat, it does the exact same thing every time, Pass you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6EDHcOyGMA&feature=youtube_gdata_player


You can see me run your car on smooth lines, watch me at full throttle no sandbagging...

Jokes!

 

[grenadeshark]

This will put it to rest...

First run YOUR Tune

Second Run My Tune with a 3.967 FD

Watch it passing you, I did YOU first right after a oil change and car wash, left mine as is after your run, just with my Gears...

Jokes anybody can jump in them an repeat, it does the exact same thing every time, Pass you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6EDHcOyGMA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You can see me run your car on smooth lines, watch me at full throttle no sandbagging...

Jokes!

You didn't even watch my videos... You never posted one video of you driving my tune. It was always you driving your tune with my ghost... I wonder...

In your video, it takes you high 37's to hit 160. In mine, low 37s. In your video, my ghost is quite a bit behind you...

This makes me believe you are shifting wrong or just plain bsing. Make a video of you driving my car with my gearing and it running slower then the video I posted of me driving my car.

 

[CSLACR]

I ran 36.112 to 160 only up to 331HP.

This is what I mean about driver error. My shift points are 6500 and lower, every single one.

But there's more problems than this, one could add some extra power to their ride without being seen, the test should be done, (if it "should" be done at all) with engine stage 3, you can verify a turbo, so that doesn't need to go on, but everything else you want, should be allowed.

 

[AssassinTuner]

Posted the wrong Link here I am your tune first mine second. Look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUOhZ003VJg

Same thing every time. Your don't get this??