The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1

[SVT Cobra GT]

Opportunity. He only really won those races when Mercedes imploded.

I don't deny that Ricciardo is talented. I just don't buy the "Vettel ran to Ferrari because he was afraid of Ricciardo" argument, mostly because I think it stems from people trying to undermine Vettel's status as a legend of the sport.

So why wasn't Vettel the one to grab those wins? As far as I recall he wasn't suffering from any technical issues that stopped him from doing so.

I do agree Vettel is talented but I've never been fully convinced that he's the new Michael Schumacher. Same with Hulkenberg, never been fully won over by him.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Charles Leclerc will get five practice outings with Haas, starting with Silverstone:

http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/06/25/leclerc-receives-haas-f1-practice-outings/

So why wasn't Vettel the one to grab those wins? As far as I recall he wasn't suffering from any technical issues that stopped him from doing so.

I seem to recall that it cane down to strategy, particularly in Hungary.

 

[mustafur]

Charles Leclerc will get five practice outings with Haas, starting with Silverstone:

http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/06/25/leclerc-receives-haas-f1-practice-outings/


I seem to recall that it cane down to strategy, particularly in Hungary.

in Hungary Vettel spun out though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Be that as it may, I still don't buy the argument that Vettel got out of Red Bull because he was intimidated by Ricciardo - especially when he ran to Ferrari, the one team that piles more pressure and expectation on its drivers than any other, and was partnered with one of the most experienced drivers on the grid.

Honestly, I think it's more a by-product of people trying to undermine Vettel's reputation than anything else. It's pretty much accepted that when you win three titles, you're automatically a legend of the sport. Vettel has four, but there are people who actively deny the idea that he is a legend because he had a dominant car and an ultra-tight relationship with the team, and so like to believe that a well-trained monkey could have won those titles, especially in 2011 and 2013 (never mind that Schumacher had just that, and that Vettel's 2010 and 2012 titles were some of the hardest-fought in the sport's history).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ricciardo says that he knows Ferrari are considering him if they decide to let Räikkönen go:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125007/ricciardo-knows-he-on-ferrari-list

 

[FutureF1]

Camara to drive for Toro Rosso at Young Drivers test in Silverstone.

I'd assume Gasly is testing with Red Bull.

Looks like they're prepping for Sainzs replacement whenever he leaves the team/gets promoted to Red Bull

 

[prisonermonkeys]

French media are suggesting that Ferrari aren't happy with Grosjean or Gutiérrez; Grosjean because he has been openly critical of the car this year, and Gutiérrez because he is Gutiérrez and underperforming. They seem to think that Ferrari are eyeing Sergio Pérez off as a replacement for Räikkönen.

Looks like they're prepping for Sainzs replacement whenever he leaves the team/gets promoted to Red Bull

I think they're in a bit of a conundrum. When they invested in Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz, it seemed a long-term plan. But now Kvyat has been stood down and Ricciardo has admitted that he knows Ferrari is interested if they let Räikkönen go.

If Ferrari do let Räikkönen go and pick up Ricciardo, Red Bull will most likely promote Sainz - in which case, they will probably stuggle to hold onto Kvyat (assuming they want to), who will look elsewhere if he feels like he has no chance at re-promotion. So Toro Rosso will be in a position where they have one driver in Pierre Gasly, but no-one to fill the second seat because the four drivers in the Young Driver Programme are under-developed. Camara is the only one close to being ready, and probably will be for 2018. The only thing that may buy them time would be unresolved tension between Verstappen and Sainz, prompting Red Bull to temporarily re-promote Kvyat.

Although they could invest in someone like Antonio Giovinazzi, who is doing blindingly well in GP2.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ferrari warn that Räikkönen needs to earn a contract extension - re-signing him is not a foregone conclusion:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125037/ferrari-says-raikkonen-must-earn-2017-seat

 

[RazorSharkz]

Weird to see Raikonnen being in danger. He is 4th in points, 15 behind Vettel. Hasn't finished worse than 6th all season if we ignore retirements.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

So why wasn't Vettel the one to grab those wins? As far as I recall he wasn't suffering from any technical issues that stopped him from doing so.

I do agree Vettel is talented but I've never been fully convinced that he's the new Michael Schumacher. Same with Hulkenberg, never been fully won over by him.

Because the car was different from the past 4 years, apparently Vettel didnt like how it drives and needed to relearn a few tricks while Riccardo with the new eyes had no trouble getting the best out of it. Which makes sens actually. And I think Vettel didnt like that the garage attention shifted from him to Riccardo while he was 4 times world champion. Which is understandable.

As much as I hated Vettel during the RBR area, he grew up on me, I quite like him now not to the point where I want him to win another WDC but I do respect him now and I think he's quite funny. I learned to like him in TopGear were he was pretty cool I thought. First time I heard a proper interview of him. I do think he's on the same level as Schumacher and if he had the same stable rules as Ferrari had during Schumacher wins he would probably be at 5 or 6 wdc now.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Weird to see Raikonnen being in danger. He is 4th in points, 15 behind Vettel. Hasn't finished worse than 6th all season if we ignore retirements.

He's inconsistent. Has been for years. And Ferrari are in a position where they have to be looking forwards to how they're going to take Mercedes on. Sure, Räikkönen might have another year or three in him, but what sort of quality are those years going to be? If Ferrari are in a position to pick up someone like Pérez or Ricciardo, they need to move because otherwise those drivers will be snapped up quickly and locked in for years to come. The last thing they want is a repeat of McLaren's 2008 season, where they had to take Heikki Kovalainen because there was no-one else. Mercedes have the strongest line-up on the grid in Hamilton and Rosberg, so the only way Ferrari are going to fight for titles is with an equally stong pairing - or else they may slip behind Red Bull. And McLaren seem determined to make the Honda relationship work; their chassis is good, they just need a stronger engine.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Weird to see Raikonnen being in danger. He is 4th in points, 15 behind Vettel. Hasn't finished worse than 6th all season if we ignore retirements.

Yeah but 15 points behind a driver who has had about as much bad luck mechanically as Hamilton if not more. And that's before we get started on team screw ups. Thus they "Ferrari" will take this into consideration far more than a quick peruse of the results from Australia to now.

In reality they'll probably take a look at other factors like the past couple years for that matter and how viable Raikkonen is for the future. To be honest I'd have switched him out already and had a new guy in the car for 2016 with the plan for 2017 WDC and WCC with the vast rule changes. Having someone vested with the team before the drop of big changes is what helps groups win. It's what even helped Merc formulate. And I suspect Red Bull have done the same.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

To be honest I'd have switched him out already and had a new guy in the car for 2016 with the plan for 2017 WDC and WCC with the vast rule changes.

I've said it before and no doubt I will say it again, but I think Ferrari really got caught with their pants down when it came to driver development. They seem to be content waiting for drivers to come to them, rather than actively seeking talent out. That might have worked twenty years ago, but drivers are now happy to win titles for other teams before moving to Ferrari (and it doesn't help when the team has about as much of an idea as to where it is going as Dory does). It certainly doesn't help that they've lost three of the last four big prospects: Sergio Pérez was poached by McLaren, Raffaele Marciello consistently under-performed in GP2, and Lance Stroll (who has come good this year) defected to Williams when he felt that the Ferrari program was limited. The only promising talent that they have is Charles Leclerc. I'm surprised that they haven't picked up Antonio Giovinazzi, though.

 

[TenEightyOne]

To be honest I'd have switched him out already and had a new guy in the car for 2016 with the plan for 2017 WDC and WCC with the vast rule changes. Having someone vested with the team before the drop of big changes is what helps groups win. It's what even helped Merc formulate. And I suspect Red Bull have done the same.

I'd be tempted to keep him for 2017 now that Ricciardo's unavailable til 2018 and, in many people's eyes, he's a solid number two.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

in many people's eyes, he's a solid number two.

That could be read several very different ways ...

Anyway, a strong second driver isn't going to cut it, because both Mercedes and Red Bull have outstandingly strong line-ups.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'd be tempted to keep him for 2017 now that Ricciardo's unavailable til 2018 and, in many people's eyes, he's a solid number two.

Ricciardo isn't going to play second fiddle. If the pit stop screws are anything to go by he wants to be in the fray and fighting for Victory, why would he cut himself at the knees? I'd say Perez but him leaving the Ferrari development doesn't seem likely and Hulk doesn't seem on the radar. So I'd say Grosjean would be the best option.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd say Grosjean would be the best option.

Grosjean has been getting trounced by Gutiérrez of late.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Grosjean has been getting trounced by Gutiérrez of late.

I still rate him higher than the others, he seems to be having trouble adjusting to an ill tempered car in hot conditions which has been most places.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I still rate him higher than the others, he seems to be having trouble adjusting to an ill tempered car in hot conditions which has been most places.

Oh, I agree that he would be a fine choice - I just have reservations about him over the long term. Both Grosjean and Pérez are in a remarkably similar position, having suffered setbacks early in their careers from being promoted too soon, but I think Pérez has bounced back from it better.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Oh, I agree that he would be a fine choice - I just have reservations about him over the long term. Both Grosjean and Pérez are in a remarkably similar position, having suffered setbacks early in their careers from being promoted too soon, but I think Pérez has bounced back from it better.

Yeah I feel he is showing skill like he did in Sauber, but more so. I think it's easier when you're not with a big team and you don't have this vast expectation looming over you like Perez did at McLaren, where he basically took over where Hamilton left off. Same situation I feel K-Mag had to deal with, and everyone comparing. It's hard to come to terms with but I hope one of the two does get a second chance at a big team.

 

[Samus]

The question with Perez is what Ant Davidson put forward yesterday, if he really has improved or if he is one of those drivers who just can't handle the pressure of a top drive. I can definitely see him at Ferrari if they think he can handle it, the allure and money of a Mexican driver with his sponsors must be big.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I haven't done one of these for a while, so why not?

Mercedes
#8 - Romain Grosjean
#94 - Pascal Wehrlein

After a messy 2016 season that sees Hamilton and Rosberg collide during qualifying and banned from racing by the stewards - and all in front of Mercedes' corporate leadership - Toto Wolff fires Hamilton and Rosberg on the spot, deeming them both as bad as each other. Wehrlein is promoted from Manor, and Grosjean recruited from Haas after Ferrari's plans put paid to his potential promotion.

Ferrari
#5 - Sebastian Vettel
#44 - Lewis Hamilton

Ferrari waste no time hiring Hamilton after Mercedes dismiss him, focusing on a line-up strong enough to fight Red Bull.

Red Bull-Renault
#3 - Daniel Ricciardo
#33 - Max Verstappen

(Already confirmed for 2017.)

McLaren-Honda
#14 - Fernando Alonso
#37 - Stoffel Vandoorne

As anticipated, McLaren promote Vandoorne at the expense of Button.

Force India-Mercedes
#6 - Nico Rosberg
#11 - Sergio Pérez

Nico Hülkenberg calls time on his Formula One career and moves to the World Endurance Championship. With no vacancies at the top teams, Rosberg takes the next-best option and joins Force India.

Haas-Ferrar
#26 - Daniil Kvyat
#61 - Charles Leclerc

With Grosjean off to Mercedes and Gutiérrez under-perfoming, Haas take Ferrari development driver Leclerc and partner him with Toro Rosso refugee Kvyat to judge the success of the Ferrari program.

Toro Rosso-Renault
#2 - Pierre Gasly
#55 - Carlos Sainz Jr.

Toro Rosso cut Kvyat loose and promote Gasly, figuring that they can spend several years developing him.

Williams-Mercedes
#22 - Jenson Button
#77 - Valtteri Bottas

Felipe Massa retires, with Button drafted in as a replacement. Many people think it is a swansong until Lance Stroll is ready, but Button has an option on his contract.

Renault
#20 - Kevin Magnussen
#34 - Esteban Ocon

Palmer is quietly dropped and replaced by Ocon.

Sauber-Ferrari
#9 - Marcus Ericsson
#12 - Felipe Nasr

New investment saves the team - but for how long?

MRT-Mercedes
#58 - Antonio Giovinazzi
#88 - Rio Haryanto

Indonesian petrodollars keep the twsm running smoothly, with GO2 star Giovinazzi making his début.

 

[mustafur]

Your dreaming that Mercedes would do that.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Your dreaming that Mercedes would do that.

Probably, but it would be very boring otherwise. And Christian Horner reckons that the Mercedes pairing is no longer sustainable in the long term, so rather than just write "Hamilton has a contract, but Rosberg doesn't, so Rosberg goes", I decided to make it interesting.

 

[mustafur]

The way I see it, as soon as they are not the fastest car they will split.

If Rosberg wins the championship this year I could also see him leaving, but I really doubt Hamilton would leave.

I would be really surprised if they both leave at the same time.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I would be really surprised if they both leave at the same time.

Which is why I suggested it - to shake things up.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

So I'd say Grosjean would be the best option.

I thought Grosjean was a good solution too but apparently Ferrari didnt like how he openly criticized the haas car lately.

We'll see. So far I dont think Ferrari are focusing too much on Vettel's next year teammate.

 

[Samus]

Not yet but I think Hamilton will at some point head back to McLaren before his career is over. Obviously it would only happen if they get their arses into gear though. Even if they do remain midfield for the next 10 years he still may do his last season or two there, I think, as he reaches his late 30s.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Hamilton has hinted that he'll only either stay at Merc or go to Ferrari

 

[Robin]

I would love to see Ricciardo or Alonso take the Ferrari seat.