The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[Earth]

I don't see how you can get this aggressive or anguished about GT6 from what we've heard so far.

So because PD chose not to announce at Tokyo just to annoy you, and then had a reveal at their 15TH ANNIVERSARY celebration it's a negative point.

You must of mentioned Forza as many times in your post as GT, me thinks you're in the wrong forum for that. At the end of the day PS4 is not out, PS4 is an extra 400-500 (pounds *probably), what's wrong with something which will sell, what's wrong with something accessible to most?

How do you know it won't be on the PS4 until 2017, that's a ridiculous thing to state.

I have a problem with revealing Gran Turismo 6 behind closed doors through a blog, yes. Polyphony Digital makes their own rules because they've gotten too big and arrogant.

I only mention Forza because that franchise has raised the bar in many aspects of console sims, yet Polyphony Digital has made no serious effort in upping their game.

Can you imagine Sony refusing to create the Playstation Network after Microsoft went online with Xbox Live? If you absolutely refuse to try and keep up with your competition you get left behind and look stupid, like Nintendo and their online model, and now Polyphony Digital with GT5.5

2017 is a 4 year wait after the PS4 launch. It was a 4 year wait after the PS3 launch for GT5, and Kazunori Yamauchi wanted more time.

Doesnt matter, because Gran Turismo will be an irrelevant, once great, punch line for jokes franchise like Final Fantasy by then.

At the end of a console generation, if it was all about making games the most accessible then Sony should continue to release its big exclusives for the PS3 for at least 2 more years...which they obviously wont do

 

[DaveS1138]

I agree.

IDK why PD is releasing it on the PS3 as soon as the PS4 comes out. It confuses me as well because Kaz was on a video reel the PS4 announcement.

Really bad business decision IMO.

There are 70+ million PS3 users out there......there are 0 million PS4 users out there......and you cant understand why PD would release GT6 on the PS3 instead of the PS4........really?

 

[jimipitbull]

I have a problem with revealing Gran Turismo 6 behind closed doors through a blog, yes. Polyphony Digital makes their own rules because they've gotten too big and arrogant.

You make your own rules because you are a big boy, in the same way that PD make their own rules because they are a successful company. The main difference is, PD acts like a successful company.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

There are 70+ million PS3 users out there......there are 0 million PS4 users out there......and you cant understand why PD would release GT6 on the PS3 instead of the PS4........really?

Your post would make sense if GT was coming out tomorrow, but it isn't GT6 is slated to come out around the same time XBOX infinity and PS4 will come out...during the holiday season. Thus the question becomes, will everyone wait for PS4 to drop, or will both systems be so amazing and bring a age like PS2/XBOX original did and have people run to get them? We don't know but from the features they are doing, and the sheer power both are claiming to have their predecessors look like jokes.

Also one must seriously stop and think, with a new XBOX release and the interval of time between Forza releases...will the next Forza be a launch title for MS

 

[dr_slump]

Square earnestly tried to fix many issues of Final Fantasy XIII with XIII-2. It was a honest apology game. Still though, the sales of the game dropped from 4.95M with XIII to 2.33M with XIII-2.

And the conclusion is that fixing problems didn't help? But anyway, I know what you actually wanted to refer to, XIII was so bad that people lost trust in the FF franchise.

I expect a similar, if not worse drop with Gran Turismo 6 sales. Polyphony Digital is repeating the same mistakes and is not embarrassed one bit about it. So we're not even going to get an apology game.

You'd expect a smaller drop if they release it for PS4? They'd sell even less on the PS4.

Gran Turismo 6 will be competing with both Playstation 4 and Xbox Infinity in November. Thats like an ant competing with a boot. I can honestly see sales dropping from 10.5M (GT5) total to less then 6M over the next 2 years.

GT5 will soon hit better sales numbers than GT4 with 11.7million units. At the moment it sold as good as GT1. This would make it the second most succesful GT game of all time behind GT3.
Funny thing, which honestly isn't really related to this, is the fact that GT5 only sold worse because of the NA market. Surely due to the PS3 launch disaster and GT5s big delay, which let many people buy an XBOX and Forza. But let's better not discuss about this (vs will not end well). See it as an interesting fact.

GT6 doesn't have to sell as good as GT5, like it's always been the case with the respectively second title per console gen.

You want an apology game? Spec III only with bugfixes would be a apology game. GT6 is apparently going to be quite different in it's core. And no, with core aren't meant superficial things such as cars, tracks, etc.

Also, saying PD is repeating mistakes from GT5 with GT6 is very subjective. I personally see a new GT with huge improvements in core elements such as new suspension model, new aero model, new tyre model, etc.
Sorry, but in my eyes those points are a thousand times more important than a funny livery editor, no standards, or whatever.




I also don't expect the PS4 GT to need again 4 years for release. I count with at maximum 2, which isn't a ridiculous assumption since Kaz gave us a hint about this topic.

 

[amar212]

I agree with you Slump, all points raised are valid IMO.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Also, saying PD is repeating mistakes from GT5 with GT6 is very subjective. I personally see a new GT with huge improvements in core elements such as new suspension model, new aero model, new tyre model, etc.
Sorry, but in my eyes those points are a thousand times more important than a funny livery editor, no standards, or whatever.




I also don't expect the PS4 GT to need again 4 years for release. I count with at maximum 2, which isn't a ridiculous assumption since Kaz gave us a hint about this topic.

I agree that if those core elements are done correctly PD will have brought GT back to the course it should have been with GT5. They could masterfully squash competition with massively enhanced physics. However, the very reason people like me and others want realistic physics is the same reason we think Standards should go and a livery editor should be included...due to realism. They are equally important because it doesn't circumvents certain parts that aren't as realistic for others, rather it enhances and creates what we would expect from PD and also holds them to making the entire GT world emulate realism and not just certain things.

Though I agree with your sales, talk as far as GT6 goes, I must say that I'm curious why you think GT7 will be released in two years. I'd be willing to wager the other way.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Sounds please fix them!!!

 

[Scaff]

I agree.

IDK why PD is releasing it on the PS3 as soon as the PS4 comes out. It confuses me as well because Kaz was on a video reel the PS4 announcement.

Really bad business decision IMO.

Not this again.

Its going to be at least two years before the PS4 has a user base that will be large enough to support a GT title (5 million first month sales with an attach rate of 12% for GT5, so you do the maths).

Its a perfectly valid business decision to launch it on the platform that already has a user base that is 100% capable of supporting the sales potential

 

[TokoTurismo]

Not this again.

Its going to be at least two years before the PS4 has a user base that will be large enough to support a GT title (5 million first month sales with an attach rate of 12% for GT5, so you do the maths).

Its a perfectly valid business decision to launch it on the platform that already has a user base that is 100% capable of supporting the sales potential

+1 Scaff. I wish the PS4 people had gotten that through their heads, but I guess its to hard and probably need GT6 to sell consoles... Or even needing it for graphics... >__>

 

[GordonS]

Somehow I have a feeling GT6 will be released much earlier than PS4.
Earlier than the holiday season.
That this time they are holding back something.
I hope.

 

[dr_slump]

Though I agree with your sales, talk as far as GT6 goes, I must say that I'm curious why you think GT7 will be released in two years. I'd be willing to wager the other way.

If it's a 7 or not, questionable.

I go even that far to say a possible prologue will show up in 2014.

Once players have played it all out and enjoyed themselves on the PS3, then the PS4 version might come out naturally around that time (laughs).

GT5 with 4 years after PS3 release came too late, no question. Even Kaz admitted this (indirectly as usual, not related to the quote above)

GT1-GT2 2 years
GT2-GT3 1.5 years
GT3-GT4 3.5 years (we had GT concept and Prologue in between)
GT5P 1 year after PS3 launch (3 years after GT4, but only 2 years after TT)

As you can see in previous generations we never had to wait more than 2 years for a new GT. In case of the PS3 age we got GT5 prologue after only 1 year, GT HD was even a launch title.
Especially look at GT3 and GT5P, only 1.5 years respectively 1 year after a new console launch.


I also can tell a lot more about sales:

GT1 age - 10,850 million units
GT2 age - 9.370 million units
GT3 age - 14.890 million units
GT4 age (including 3 concepts, prologe) - 14.8 million units
(GT4 without the concepts, but with prologue - 13.130 million units)
Gt5 age (including prologe) - 16.01 million units (still selling well)

GT5 unsucessful? Sure...

 

[hogger129]

The article on the homepage said engine swaps and livery editor is a "technical possibility" and laughs. Are you effing kidding me? How is it a "technical possibility?" Either say if it has it or doesn't have it. If it doesn't have it, implement it. Gran Turismo buyers have been asking for it for a long time now. Forza has it, why is it so hard for Gran Turismo to have it? I have a strange feeling that GT6 is going to be GT5.5 and leave fans wanting more once again.

I wish Forza would release on Playstation.

 

[jabofu]

Not this again.

Its going to be at least two years before the PS4 has a user base that will be large enough to support a GT title (5 million first month sales with an attach rate of 12% for GT5, so you do the maths).

Its a perfectly valid business decision to launch it on the platform that already has a user base that is 100% capable of supporting the sales potential

Yes, not this again. Saying that a PS 4 release would be stupid. We all know that the strong sales of the GT series came over the time. Someone who purchased a Playstation and like cars even a bit, probably bought a GT game over the time.

Dont get me wrong. GT 6 will probably be a good game and will most likely show the best of what the PS3 can deliver. But the time is not really that great in my eyes and many others agree. With a new PS4 coming out the same time, it is quite confusing. I would have loved to be one of the first PS4 player with GT6 as start title. But my dream bubble bursted. Well, in my case not so tragic, because I personally have a very good alternative on the horizon, but still disapointing.

GT 6 could have make the same, if not better sales on the PS4 over time. You really think that sales of GT 6 will be that strong after 2-3 years from now on? I doubt that. On the PS4 it would have sold without a drop of interest.

Just think about it. With GT 6 on the PS3 and a purchase of a PS4, you would have to update and continue to run 2 consoles. Switching back and forth between consoles. You get and invite to the new Killzone and have to change the console. Cool.

GT5.5. It remembers me about Forza 2.5 and 3.5. People just dont understand that it is just an evolution of a game and not a new revolutionary creation. It means that the core, what makes the game, stays unchanged and the key features just get heavily updated. I think with the new suspension and tyre physics, we will see the same positive change to GT as we saw the impact of the new tyre modell in Forza 4.

GT6 probably wont be a drastic change. It wont fullfill everyones hopes. Lets face it, sound wont be a new sensation and damage neither, we know that already.

 

[ghostrider135]

The article on the homepage said engine swaps and livery editor is a "technical possibility" and laughs. Are you effing kidding me? How is it a "technical possibility?" Either say if it has it or doesn't have it. If it doesn't have it, implement it. Gran Turismo buyers have been asking for it for a long time now. Forza has it, why is it so hard for Gran Turismo to have it? I have a strange feeling that GT6 is going to be GT5.5 and leave fans wanting more once again.

I wish Forza would release on Playstation.

Well said sir 👍

If nothing concrete is mentioned r.e a livery creator etc before release day then I'll just buy it 2nd hand and not give my money to PD for them to sit on their backsides while other games are leaving the GT series back on the starting line. Unfortunately not all that many people will have the same mindset as me.

 

[tankuroded]

GT1-GT2 2 years
GT2-GT3 1.5 years
GT3-GT4 3.5 years (we had GT concept and Prologue in between)
GT5P 1 year after PS3 launch (3 years after GT4, but only 2 years after TT)

As you can see in previous generations we never had to wait more than 2 years for a new GT. In case of the PS3 age we got GT5 prologue after only 1 year, GT HD was even a launch title.
Especially look at GT3 and GT5P, only 1.5 years respectively 1 year after a new console launch.


I also can tell a lot more about sales:

GT1 age - 10,850 million units
GT2 age - 9.370 million units
GT3 age - 14.890 million units
GT4 age (including 3 concepts, prologe) - 14.8 million units
(GT4 without the concepts, but with prologue - 13.130 million units)
Gt5 age (including prologe) - 16.01 million units (still selling well)

GT5 unsucessful? Sure...

The Concept games are part of GT3, not GT4. My maths makes them add up to 16.560 million units. Also, are you aware GT3 was close to be released in the PS2's first year, as GT2000?

 

[Scaff]

GT 6 could have make the same, if not better sales on the PS4 over time. You really think that sales of GT 6 will be that strong after 2-3 years from now on? I doubt that. On the PS4 it would have sold without a drop of interest.

Here's the funny thing, Sony disagree with you on this and for good reason. Maximum game profits come while the title is new, and by that we are talking in the first few months and Sony would have to break the sales record set by the PS3 and 360 to hit those kind of figures.

So you expect the PS4 to sell 50+ million units in the first two years do you?

Because that's exactly what you would need with an attach rate of 12% to obtain those kind of figures for a PS4 release, and it would easily be the worse selling GT at launch (if Sony shift 2 million PS4's in the first three months they will be luck as neither the 360 or PS3 managed that, and that would be around 1/4 million copies of a GT title (against the 5 million them shifted in the first month of GT5's sales).

So tell me why would they not release a PS3 GT and shift another 5 - 10 million units right now (not in two years time), and then follow that up with another GT title on the PS4 two years from now when the user base is in place?

Financially a PS4 launch GT title makes no sense at all over a PS3 GT title, none at all. They would see far less revenue and profit from it, its not needed to shift PS4's and it would be seen as a commercial failure in terms of release sales (and shareholders love that kind of thing).



Its not greed at all, its common sense for a business that wants to operate and function, your not going to get any more Playstation's or GT's if that doesn't happen. GT titles are among the most expensive games ever to produce and the first game on a console is just about going to offset those costs (certainly in the case of GT5), as such a second title is then far more profitable and can help fund the development of the 'next gen' versions.

Personally I'm looking at this from a logical point of view and could not care if its a PS3 or PS4 title, because after GT5 PD are going to have to sell me the reason as to why I should buy it at all. They will have a little easier job doing that on the PS3 than the PS4, but they have to do it none the less. I hope they damn well manage to as well.

From a business point of view (profit now and profit in the future), GT6 on the PS3 was and is the only sensible approach.

 

[Donald Rumsfeld]

Has anybody made a "Gran NISMO" joke yet?

 

[Youngun]

From a business point of view (profit now and profit in the future), GT6 on the PS3 was and is the only sensible approach.

Very true. But for a long business play, its risky. Lets say they bring out GT7 on PS4 2 years later and things just aren't the same. I would if rather them used the time and added loads of new features fixed the old problems and increases the current play model, using the whole new power thats due out in Q4. GT6 is squeezing the PS3 for all its power now, why squeeze when there was so much more in the PS4.

But a company thats felt the squeeze need to gather income and rather be the bench mark, there catching the competition in the same generation. Which i fear will lead to inevitable hurt to them. F5 is slated for next year and apparently demoing at the Microsoft event soooooo is it a Mistake. Drive Club may be the only option to oppose the mighty Forza now.

 

[bigspleen]

Here's the funny thing, Sony disagree with you on this and for good reason. Maximum game profits come while the title is new, and by that we are talking in the first few months and Sony would have to break the sales record set by the PS3 and 360 to hit those kind of figures.



From a business point of view (profit now and profit in the future), GT6 on the PS3 was and is the only sensible approach.

Disagree, what is more important for the long term health of GT and sony? Ps4 is, not one gt game. No matter how well Gt6 sells it will be miniscule compared to what a large conglomerate like sony will need.

rumour is now MS is preparing forza 5 for Next xbox, Sony and PD making a major mistake here.

GT would move PS4's off the shelves.

 

[MeanElf]

...If nothing concrete is mentioned r.e a livery creator etc before release day then I'll just buy it 2nd hand and not give my money to PD for them to sit on their backsides while other games are leaving the GT series back on the starting line. Unfortunately not all that many people will have the same mindset as me.

Yes, because sitting on their backsides is what they do, all day...that is when they're not sleeping under their desks...

Sure it'd be nice but really not that important.

 

[bigspleen]

Sorry please delete.

 

[Tornado]

Disagree, what is more important for the long term health of GT and sony? Ps4 is, not one gt game. No matter how well Gt6 sells it will be miniscule compared to what a large conglomerate like sony will need.

rumour is now MS is preparing forza 5 for Next xbox, Sony and PD making a major mistake here.

GT would move PS4's off the shelves.

Is that an echo I hear?

All wrong, answer me this, what is more important for sony's long term future, Ps4 or GT6 sales? GT6 sales even if massive are nothing but a tiny drop in the big sony corporate bucket.

The PS4 getting off to a strong start, and having a major franchise on it early in it's life is vastly more beneficial to Sony then 1 games sales no matter how big.

You never did answer how Sony managed to sell any PSX, PS2 and PS3s despite not having GT games on them at launch.

 

[Scaff]

Disagree, what is more important for the long term health of GT and sony? Ps4 is, not one gt game. No matter how well Gt6 sells it will be miniscule compared to what a large conglomerate like sony will need.

rumour is now MS is preparing forza 5 for Next xbox, Sony and PD making a major mistake here.

GT would move PS4's off the shelves.

Sony doesn't need GT to move PS4's off the shelf, if they can't sell all they can make for the first year without a GT title then they have a bigger problem than GT (and they didn't need one for the PS2 or PS3).

What is important for Sony right now is to get some revenue in the bank to help ofset the expense of the PS4, and a GT title on the PS3 will do that quite nicely thank you.

 

[bigspleen]

Is that an echo I hear?




You never did answer how Sony managed to sell any PSX, PS2 and PS3s despite not having GT games on them at launch.

Sony was dominant during the ps1 and ps2 era. The ps3 was struggling for years, and now have stiff competition in MS. GT should be on Ps4. Long term it is way more beneficial to get ps4 off to a good start unlike the ps3 which did struggle without big name games the first 2 years.

They cannot afford the Ps4 to get off to such a bad start like ps3 did, they are not in the financial position.

Sony doesn't need GT to move PS4's off the shelf, if they can't sell all they can make for the first year without a GT title then they have a bigger problem than GT (and they didn't need one for the PS2 or PS3).

What is important for Sony right now is to get some revenue in the bank to help ofset the expense of the PS4, and a GT title on the PS3 will do that quite nicely thank you.

Disagree, see above why. Getting ps4 off to a good start is way more beneficial then one game. one game sales won't do anything for a massive company like sony's bottom line.


You answered my question. They simply cannot afford for the os4 to struggle at first like the ps3 did.

 

[Spagetti69]

I think PS4 GT is probably miles off. To make the best of the situation a PS3 GT is better than nothing.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I think PS4 GT is probably miles off. To make the best of the situation a PS3 GT is better than nothing.

Agreed, that's what I say everytime in my head. It's funny how the PS4 folk were willing to buy PS4, just for GT just so it could move units..... I highly doubt the next gen consoles are going to sell especially priced up for $500 or even $600 (who's willing to buy that?). Also, what about the other games instead of GT?

 

[Scaff]

Sony was dominant during the ps1 and ps2 era. The ps3 was struggling for years, and now have stiff competition in MS. GT should be on Ps4. Long term it is way more beneficial to get ps4 off to a good start unlike the ps3 which did struggle without big name games the first 2 years.

They cannot afford the Ps4 to get off to such a bad start like ps3 did, they are not in the financial position.

The response so far for the PS4 has been nothing like the PS3 and I seriously doubt that they need a single title to shift units at launch.

Disagree, see above why. Getting ps4 off to a good start is way more beneficial then one game. one game sales won't do anything for a massive company like sony's bottom line.


You answered my question. They simply cannot afford for the os4 to struggle at first like the ps3 did.

Are you aware of the potential difference in revenue for a PS3 vs PS4 GT6 launch?

OK I will do the maths, but without the utterly innacurate assumptions you've made here.

1 GT6 sold on the PS3 = approx $27 revenue (PD and Sony will get around 45% of the ticket price back and that will be revenue not profit), with a potential to sell around 5 million in the first month based on GT5 levels. Which gives revenue of approx. $135 million in a month, from which you will need to deduct development and marketing costs to get a profit figure.

1 GT6 sold on the PS4 = approx $27 revenue. And I am being stupidly generous here and assuming Sony do not make a loss on the PS4 at launch, which would be the first time they had managed that for a console at launch. Now they will be lucky to get 2 million PS4s to customer in the first month (again being generous the PS3 and 360 took more than 3 month to get to 2 million), but not all of those will buy GT6 (which has an attach rate of around 12%), so that would be 240,000 units. Which gives a revenue of $6.48 million in a month, from which you will need to deduct development and marketing costs to get a profit figure.


Now while I am quite happy to state that I have made assumptions with some of my figures, they are going to be a lot closer than the barking mad assumptions you have made.

$135 million (PS3) vs $6.5 million (PS4) revenue.

Now it certainly will not cost PD and Sony $135 million to develop and market GT6 on the PS3, but they don't have a hope of doing the same on the PS4 for $6.5 million, so GT6 on the PS4 would almost certainly make a loss (and that's with the PS4 not making a loss per unit).

That's not even looking at DLC revenue, its not an insignificant amount at all, you've also not answered the question as to why GT is needed at launch? As one title is not going to make or break a launch.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Well said Scaff.

 

[NA]

I just realized. We should probably should have another anniversary event celebration. Variations of this argument have been going for at least 13 years now.

Every bleeding time there is a new console, or a new GT gets announced anyway.