- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
His sexuality, of course. Because what right does he have to an identity? What right does he have to make others feel mildly uncomfortable?
The Homosexuality Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Duke
- 9,138 comments
- 413,557 views
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Oh, I get it - this is one of those times where you post something objectionable and then when you get called out on it, it's not you fault; no, everyone fundamentally misinterpreted what you said because we're all idiots.
But assuming all of that is true, and that you really are the smartest man in the room, how is it that this keeps happening? I mean, it's really one of those mistakes that you make once and then it never happens again.
But assuming all of that is true, and that you really are the smartest man in the room, how is it that this keeps happening? I mean, it's really one of those mistakes that you make once and then it never happens again.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Even in Australia I'm pretty sure the hard right are paying the bills along with everyone else.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Joel
Premium
- 8,141
- Halifax, NS
- Noob616
I mean, I do understand the fiscal arguments and I get that it doesn't mean you are unsupportive of LGBT people's freedom, but it gets pretty frustrating to me that the financial stuff always seems to come up about well...anything to do with LGBT people.
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- Philippines
Are you asking why a state might believe that it is in its own best interests to make sure its citizens get along with each other and will hopefully give the police, medical and social care systems less work to do when they reach adulthood?
- 874
- United Kingdom
These sort of things are needed, because other people like to make the lives of those around them a living hell just for been "different". Is that really such a hard concept to grasp?
When you have LGBT people been abandoned by family members, their friends, been bullied, denied jobs, given poor medical treatment, and all the usual stuff. Then some pretty dire consequences can come from it, such as depression, self harming, and the worst outcome of all; suicide.
The reason why you are struggling to find the worth in programs such as been discussed here at schools (and other tax payer funded places), is most likely because you have not faced that sort of treatment on a constant daily basis.
I am more than happy for some tax money to go on things such as LGBT programs, and not just because I am transgender, but because there are countless people that need help. Both in dealing with their sexuality or gender, and also helping people on the outside learn that it doesn't make us all "freaks" for been the way we are.
squadops
(Banned)
- 1,987
- United States
Not really.
Back when we used to chisel our homework in stone I can remember the teachers telling us, 'everyone is different so just be nice'. And yes there were sexually active kids in my high school, no one cared about orientation. It's not a big deal until you make it one.
Why in the school system though, is the other question I asked that is ignored.
Back when we used to chisel our homework in stone I can remember the teachers telling us, 'everyone is different so just be nice'. And yes there were sexually active kids in my high school, no one cared about orientation. It's not a big deal until you make it one.
Why in the school system though, is the other question I asked that is ignored.
- 13,830
- Adelaide
- Neomone
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
So if a minority opposes it, it should automatically be vetoed? How on earth do you expect anything to get done when all it takes is a lone voice of dissent to derail something?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Can you move the goalposts any further? I objected in the first place to the idea that money grows on trees to fund government programs and in the second place to your assertion that the people paying the bills don't care. Unless there is nobody on the right with an objectin that is paying taxes, then some of the people paying the bills actually do care. And are you really suggesting that so long as a majority agree on something that makes it ok? How on earth do you expect a democracy to function when we only listen to the majority?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
In this case, better than when we only listen to an absolute minority. Literally the only people campaigning against programmes like this are the hard-right politicians who are vehemently opposed to same-sex relationships. Support for the rights of same-sex couples is, ironically enough, consistently high among their constituents.
Politicians should represent the voice of the people. And in this case, the voice of the people is loud and clear - we support the rights of same-sex couples. The only reason why we haven't recognised it as law is because of a handful of ultra-conservative politicians who hold the balance of power in both houses of parliament refuse to pass laws because they are uncomfortable with it. They don't represent anyone but themselves and there is a lot of community anger about it. To put it in perspective, these are the same people who oppose sharia law, but rigidly interpret the bible and would see it form the basis of law if they could.
They're an absolute minority who have hijacked the democratic process. They're expected to lose their seats at the next federal election, but are trying to manipulate the preference voting system by forcing through reforms to stay in power.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Clearly your teacher was diverting attention from needed academic studies in the art of stone age typography to present that lesson, and should not have said anything at all. Professor Ug wasted ten whole seconds of your time.
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Where else are you going to teach things besides the place where you teach things? Not everyone goes to Sunday school. And not everyone who goes to Sunday school goes to the same Sunday school.
Prospective US Citizens from other countries are required to take citizenship classes. Why should children, who will eventually become adult citizens, be any different?
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Again, it is in the best interests of a country to prepare the children of that country to become productive citizens. And productivity is not just ABCs and 123s.
The question of whether the government has the right to collect taxes from you to teach children to be tolerant of different ethnicities and genders is not the right question.
The question is whether the government has the right to collect taxes from you to teach anything at all.
- 13,830
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Isn't that kind of what democracy is? Listening to the will of the majority instead of the few (oligarchies) or the one (monarchies, dictatorships)
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
And Sunday school sounds like the worst possible place to offer support to kids with diverse sexualities.
What @squadops fails to realise is that the Safe Schools initiative isn't the only co-curricular support programme that we have. For example, we have an opt-in scripture programme that caters to multiple faiths and denominations therewithin. The government also funds a school chaplaincy programme that aimed to put chaplains into every state school (but was quite controversial because they cut funding for school counsellors and only offered Christian and Catholic staff), and heavy government subsidies designed to make private, religious-based education affordable for everyone. All of these are funded by taxpayers, so if you're going to terminate the Safe Schools initiative, you're going to have to axe all of them. Note that the politicians opposing the Safe Schools initiative aren't simply supporting all of those other programmes; they devised them. They accuse the Safe Schools initiative of being little more than social engineering, but that's exactly what they're trying to do - this is the same government that commissioned a review into the new nationwide curriculum to include "more emphasis on Australian values", which was a clear attempt to combat radicalisation of young people by promoting Christian values as Australian values, which is the equivalent of putting out fire with gasoline (they only backed down when it was pointed out how expensive thus would be).
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
If you continue being vague about your answer (calling us silly, funny et al) then we continue around the houses trying to figure out what it is you're trying to contribute.
Try a straight answer, I'll repeat the question for your viewing pleasure;
You're welcome
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I guess we can lay that American handgun issue to rest then. Whew...
So these hard right politicians only represent themselves? Do you have a link to a study that shows that same sex marriage in Australia has 99.99% support across the board then?
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- 13,830
- Adelaide
- Neomone
I'm not saying it makes it right. There's plenty of cases where the majority will make the wrong decision, whether through ignorance or cultural conditioning or whatever. A democracy is not a guarantee that the right decision is made.
I was simply pointing out that if you're working in a democracy, that's what we have to deal with. Anything where the majority doesn't have their view observed probably isn't really a democracy. It's an oligarchy where the few in power make the decisions without reference to what the many would choose. Which probably applies to many modern countries that call themselves democracies.
I agreed with what you were saying in that post I replied to. It's simply that the last line makes absolutely no sense, because listening to the majority is the function of a democracy.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Democracy is the tyranny of the majority. Which people are perfectly fine with until they aren't the majority.
This is why a strong Constitution is important.
So, lay your cards down on the table. Because this is getting tiresome.
1. Does the government have the right to collect taxes from you to educate students in public schools?
2. What is the purpose of the government in educating students in public schools?
This is why a strong Constitution is important.
So, lay your cards down on the table. Because this is getting tiresome.
1. Does the government have the right to collect taxes from you to educate students in public schools?
2. What is the purpose of the government in educating students in public schools?
- 7,573
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
It's hard to account for all the variables with just one narrow experience. A lot of things that might seem to be "common sense" may only work under a given situation. Maybe it might be useful to ask why it wasn't a big deal in your case, and look into what could change that in a different case.
Why not? I don't have anything against the concept of teaching human interaction in school. Taking money from people to fund a school may be wrong, but that's a slightly different thing isn't it?
