The Myth Of Car Damage

[jaxx751]

Physical damage will never happen.

the main thing i would like to see is non-cosmetic damage, such as water/coolant temp, oil temp, too much boost pressure, if you are driving an auto, have the clutch slip a little if you need to change the ATF oil, etc etc...

if you want a real simulator, go drive on a track.

 

[Darts]

Yes, but then there would to be a towing car just like at Le masn 24 Hours 2004 happened with McNish and that other leader. And a good pitcrew, and operntunity to fix EVERYTHING!

 

[Darts]

Else it would suke

 

[enuttage]

@James

Gotcha 100%. I understand now, and totally agree.

@Jaxx

Seems pretty ignorant to me, bro. 'Go drive on a track'? Okay then, go play baseball against pros. Go get hit by a 300lb lineman. Go fire your own guns and steal your own money.

Part of the video game experience (for me anyway), is to experience things in as realistic fashion as possible, yet sometimes be able to experience things you never could IRL.

Though I COULD go drive on several tracks here, it's unlikely I'll see the likes of Tsukuba anytime soon, and most likely ever in my lifetime. Same with Nurburgring, etc., etc.

My response to you would be, 'If you want an arcade game, go play NFSU'.

Anyway...I'm done with this thread.

In response to the original question and to continue to grind this into the ground, I think toggle-able damage is where it's at. Arcade folks still get what they want, and hardcore sim folks get a step closer to the conditions of real life.

Will it happen? Who knows. But that wasn't the point of the thread, I don't believe.

It's all speculation until the next time 'round anyway. No one is more right than another in this case.

-E

 

[jaxx751]

i know what you mean, just trying to make a point, which was that if you want TOTAL realism, theres nothing better than real life... sorry I didnt make that clear... but video games, no matter how good they get, they aren't gonna pass real life.

I am very much a gamer, just because it is fun and something to do.

Im gonna go play GT4,
-jaxx

 

[h0ss]

I think that damage could only be fun if it went along with proper black and yellow flags. Debris collects on the road, you have a compression of race position, etc.

The biggest fear I have about damage is that when online, thegame will be a competition to find the fastest "griefer" strategy, where you can damage someone's car (or cause them to damage themselves) without gaining either a flag or damage yourself. Once that happens, races will be dominated by griefers rather than by people who want to have fun racing.

Maybe smarter people than me can come up with strategies to eliminate this griefing problem. I'd like to know what it is...

 

[James2097]

Whether there's damaage or not, online is gonna be full of people just trying to knock cars off the course etc ("griefing" as h0ss puts it). Seperation of idiots and sensible racers will happen naturally with different groups of friends, teams etc. Think what happens on Xbox Live, initial chaos, then the different groups of people kinda sort themselves out, and real idiots can be banned like in Halo2... I'm optimistic online can work out alright.

 

[evil gremlin]

if the damage would compromise the car list i wouldnt want it but to have all out realism would be awsome for me it would make you want to drive good when your behind and trying to catch up not like now you can jump over a grass area and cheat your way to victory, i would love to have it so when you have your car lowerd to 89mm and you jump that rumble strip you tear out your tranny. It would make the liscense tests last way longer by teaching you how to not screw your car up

 

[sideslider]

if i wanted my car to break all the time i'd buy a real car and start racing in real life...but i agree all or nothing.

 

[JohnBM01]

Bad AI + car damage = "Pro Race Driver."

I don't know how many times I have to mention this damn game, but this is the worst AI I've ever played in a racing game. Anyone ever pay attention to what I type? I have yet to see anyone ram me off the track in a GT game. They'll slam into the back of me and side-swipe me, but the AI doesn't cause me to crash. But freaking play the game I'm mentioning before talking about GT4. If not, I'll keep mentioning this game until someone actually understands where I'm coming from. Oh, and you want AI problems? Forza Motorsport. I start the demo race, dude rams into me, slams a brother into the wall, and I lost some of my left-rear panels. And you talk about GT4.

As I mentioned, I don't mind it. I'm not going to go whining if cars still look the same after heavy impact. I know cars smash up in real life, so I'm not bothered about seeing this in a GT game. I don't care about visual or physical damage. I'm sure if PD can make it happen, surely, they can make it work.

How much of a deal would PD have to work in order to allow car damage? When I played "Need for Speed: High Stakes" years ago on my PC, I read about some exclusive deal between EA and the auto makes in the game to allow visual and physical damage. PD is not EA. I guess what my concern is, what does Gran Turismo mean for the car makes represents? NFS is purely arcade while GT is a simulation. NFS has the exotics in the game, GT has a big variety of machines. What do other car companies see about GT that they won't allow damage?

 

[jaxx751]

theres is the problem along with all the models for damage...

if a car company doesn't let them do damage, then they can't use the cars... this might be the case for old school cars, or at least ones not in production, like your skyline that everyone loves...

image this: body kits for every car.... lets say, 10-20 different ones(depending on how deep the damage is, small scratches or just big visuals)... this is about the damage models that they would have to come up with, and on the 4.7GB dvd, thats a little hard to do considering 650+ cars.

-jaxx

 

[ving]

hehe!!
this thread has become funny!

 

[jaxx751]

hehe!!
this thread has become funny!

how so? and shouldn't you be driving your fiat?

 

[RedRiot]

No need for car damage. With the legendary stupid GT AI it would be the most annoying experience in gaming history. To much accident would happen, where not the player is the cause, the AI would be. Imagine losing the Nurburgring 24h ten times in row, because the AI rams your car of the track.

PD should use the power of the PS3 for even more detailed car models, more realisticsound effects, more cars in one race, and a much smarter AI. GT5 should really reach the AI level of a 7(!) years old PC game: Grand Prix Legends.

 

[badcatnobiscuit]

and on the 4.7GB dvd,

uh.. it''s dual layer... 💡

 

[James2097]

Uh its blu-ray. Please people, why the hell do we worry about PS2's specs? PS3 will be able to technically handle damage easily. Its just a game design issue then, if its fun or not.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

You know, IRL drivers have to take damage seriously and moderate their driving accordingly. If you look at most races, especially the longer endurance races, the fastest laps are the qualifying laps because they have less traffic and they are only pushing hard for a couple laps. The cars would break if they pushed hard for the whole 12 or 24 hours, and as a result, in-race laps are run more carefully, getting the fastest possible time out of the car without pushing it to the breaking point. Lots of cars break without even taking crashing into account! The 12 hours of Sebring was a great example of this. The C6R was leading, and suffered a catastophic brake failure sometime after the 8th hour. The driver managed to slide the car sideways into the tires, and limped back to the pit in time to get it fixed and still finish 2nd. There are always wrecks, but the real problems are when something breaks on its own (tranny, brakes, engine). Especially the lemans races--collision damage is less than half the problem, and I don't think any of us want the PS3 picking at random who to curse with a blown engine or fried tranny. But that's what it would really take to make it real. And besides, what race car actually has metal body panels? They are all composites, and they bounce back or crack and break off and flap in the wind--they don't crumple or wrinkle.

Since this is, after all, a game, Do you really want to have to race a race agian because your car just up and broke? And what about class restrictions? There are 4 classes in lemans (I'm pretty sure, P1, P2, GTS1, and GTS2). Each class has horsepower and weight restrictions, and weight "rewards" (penalties for winning--arguably implemented to even the field) that are applied to each class and the winners of each race. P1 is usually dominated by the Audi R8, and GTS1 has been dominated for the last several years by the Corvette C5R (and now the new C6R. Which, by the way, I'm bugged didn't make it into GT4). Do you really want to have to race an Audi or Corvette to be competitive? I drive the vettes because I'm a vette guy, but I'd be pretty chapped to have to drive it to win if I didn't like them.

So, the question is, how real do you want things? I would really like better outlined classes, having to meet all the real-world restrictions. And I would even welcome BOTH types of damage--but as I've stated, it is always a gamble to drive slower, keeping your car in good shape, and hoping the people in front push too hard and break something or crash. That is a fine line, to intentionally NOT drive as fast as you can, saving gas, tires, and wear and tear on your tranny, engine, and brakes in a hope to be able to pick it up and close the gap if you find yourself behind still with 10 laps remaining. But that is WAY too real for most people. In fact, outside of the types of racing I like (lemans, trans am, and some touring car), it is too real for me! I have no interest in having to understand that for race series I'm not in to. And in my opinion, its all part of the same issue. There simply isn't enough benefit for the one without the other, and there's not enugh benefit for them both together for it to really be marketable.

You said it! I would also like a bit more outlined classes of racing! Sure it can be fun to compare the driveability of a DTM car to a JGTC car, but to pit the Nissan R92CP against a Bentley Speed 8 is not what I think of as fair. And when it comes to damage, I could see enginefailure as a possibility, due to too hard ware on such, but full moderation? I think that would ruin it for alot of casual racers, wich are probably those who actually trigger the sales for the game. The hardcorefans are many, and I´m sure they would like Full moderation for realism, but they´re not many enough for PD to actually care. One possibility is of course that of choice. I can imagine that function in the future. Simply allow or disallow damage with a click of a button.

 

[the hodge man]

i already bought up the way the damage would probably be like if there was damage on gt5 , the dumb A.I needs to be fixed instead of putting damage into the game , damage to many people i reckon comes second to the dumb A.I , PD should put online mode on gt5 and sort out the horrofic A.I and damage should come second to sorting out the A.I and online play.

 

[enuttage]

Simply allow or disallow damage with a click of a button.

Solves all problems involved with damage.

All design issues are on Sony/PDs end. They CAN do it. But will they?

If they have a toggle, all other issues are moot regarding whether it will be 'too hard', or 'not fun', or 'not a game'. Don't like it? Turn it off.

Admittedly, I wouldn't run with it on all the time.

End user customization is, more and more, becoming a necessary option on games. PD has a done a very good job with allowing options to be turned on and off and implementing the A-Spec system. No reason damage wouldn't fall into that category as well.

-E

 

[chameleon2]

I think they should make it real, but with the option for novice damage or something. So that the game is open for everyone, but the hardcore player can also play sim.

 

[Dave A]

Kaz has already said the reason for no damage in GT4 was because the PS2 couldn't handle it, and than GT5 will feature damage so the speculation of will it be included or not is pointless, it will be in. I think the damage Kaz wants is for it to be as real as possible, remever he pointed out that the PS2 couldn't show the cars breaking up into hundereds of peices so I think you'll be able to total your car in GT5. Licensing is much less of an issue now than it was look at Forza, sure there will be some cars that manufacturers won't like you to damage but at the end of the day if that means losing a handful of cars then why not let them go and find another handful of cars to replace them.

 

[James2097]

I'm just worried that Kaz could be overly optimistic about what can be accomplished while early in the dev cycle for GT5, and then game design issues will rear their ugly head (when actually trying to implement stuff) and the damage system will be rolled back a bit and made just cosmetic or something, that would suck. Like how online was cut from GT4... also damage was always mooted early on and hyped up (by the press) as a possible inclusion for GT 2, 3 and 4! I really hope Kaz is serious this time!

I hope my cynicism is unfounded!

 

[Dave A]

Kaz has never before stated that damage will be in a GT game before exept for the limited damage option in GT2's arcade mode. He's stated damage will be in GT5, and PS3 dev kits have been out for a few months and I bet a large number of the licenses were worked out by or even before GT4 so heres hoping.

 

[jaxx751]

uh.. it''s dual layer... 💡

not that i know of. only the Xbox is DVD9

 

[T5-R]

Kaz has already said the reason for no damage in GT4 was because the PS2 couldn't handle it, and than GT5 will feature damage so the speculation of will it be included or not is pointless, it will be in.

I think thats a little optimistic considering GT4 was supposed to have an online mode Oh and race mods etc...

 

[Dave A]

The online was dropped late yes, but Kaz never stated the race mods would be back, he said he'd like them to be back but he only said body kits WOULD be in, and we got rear wings, whopie-f''kin-doo. But I don't think thwey'd be half arsed over something like damage.

 

[Dave A]

not that i know of. only the Xbox is DVD9

GT4 is on a dual layer DVD, check it on your PC, it's 9GB. But thats not important, if a game won't fit onto a DVD for the PS3 it will go onto a blue ray disk which can have upto and potentially more than 30GB capacity.

 

[homer110123d]

Sorry if someone already posted this, but GI had a blurb about more realistic graphics and confirmed car damage, both performance and cosmetic

 

[twin_turbo11]

"I've never wanted damage in GT and don't think I ever will. I'm paying good (fake) money for these cars, and I don't want to mess them up. That would be depressing Plus, this game really isn't an actual racing "career" game, or whatever, so there's no need for damage as you generally don't have to worry about maintainance costs (other than a car wash and oil changes) and other things that would come with damage. They'd have to completely overhaul the whole premise of the game if they put in damage, and I like it just fine the way it has been since GT1. Yes, it would look cool, but I can just play Burnout 3 if I want to see a car get destroyed in spectacular fashion."







Also take consideration that if you are in proffesional racing you have sponsors ,so implementing that into the game the oil leaks, brake failures,etc...wont really be annoying because the sponsors pay it off..........but then again i probably just dont know what im talking about...............

 

[213101]

i just want mechanical damage from absolutely rapeing the hell out of cars and punctures and stuff.