The Sound Update Thread (The Return)

  • Thread starter TayeezSA
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citroengt1
Me too, i am not sure what AES is in GT6. Can someone explain?
Click to expand...

Also, facts, not assumptions, would be better.
I mean, real examples of this supposedly new and awesome technique.
I really want it to be awesome, but after hearing what AC could deliver in terms of echo for example I'm not sure if PD can actually do something worth the wait.
I don't know if their samples (or whatever) are correct, but the sense of realism is incredible. Even hearing a stereo video from YouTube is amazing, I really want to hear it with my HT :)

But, we shall wait. Maybe this could be the time when PD actually delivers in audio terms... I want to believe... In the promises... Of Kaz... :(
 
Eager Snake
Also, facts, not assumptions, would be better.
I mean, real examples of this supposedly new and awesome technique.
I really want it to be awesome, but after hearing what AC could deliver in terms of echo for example I'm not sure if PD can actually do something worth the wait.
I don't know if their samples (or whatever) are correct, but the sense of realism is incredible. Even hearing a stereo video from YouTube is amazing, I really want to hear it with my HT :)

But, we shall wait. Maybe this could be the time when PD actually delivers in audio terms... I want to believe... In the promises... Of Kaz... :(
Click to expand...
I remember about the engines echo in the background in Redbull X2014 Standard Event which when you focus your ears on the background engines noises in the pre-race menu - you can notice the way it echos around the track as i remember X)
 
Eager Snake
Also, facts, not assumptions, would be better.
I mean, real examples of this supposedly new and awesome technique.
I really want it to be awesome, but after hearing what AC could deliver in terms of echo for example I'm not sure if PD can actually do something worth the wait.
I don't know if their samples (or whatever) are correct, but the sense of realism is incredible. Even hearing a stereo video from YouTube is amazing, I really want to hear it with my HT :)

But, we shall wait. Maybe this could be the time when PD actually delivers in audio terms... I want to believe... In the promises... Of Kaz... :(
Click to expand...


Read the OP and check the videos therein. Plus any post in this thread or the original (in OP) by @Griffith500 is a must read, even if like me you don't understand half of it.

Take Ayrton's Lotus 98T out after all this and you'll know where they're at (PD) and what's missing in GT6.

Some videos of GTsport show they've begun to put that intake and mechanical growl in as well as the exhaust now (more channels than PS3?), IMO.
 
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Imari
Different AES. It's the same acronym but two completely separate products.
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so... sony is using the same name for two diferent "products"? the only thing i could find was （Advanced Encryption Standard), but nothing related to GT Audio File System...
 
NorthwolF
so... sony is using the same name for two diferent "products"? the only thing i could find was （Advanced Encryption Standard), but nothing related to GT Audio File System...
Click to expand...

No. AES is not a Sony product. The AES name for the audio files I believe comes from what they were tagged as in the GT6 file system. There are only so many three letter combinations for file names, you know.

You can read the GT6 audio thread if you want to know more about it.
 
scholesy1899
Read the OP and check the videos therein. Plus any post in this thread or the original (in OP) by @Griffith500 is a must read, even if like me you don't understand half of it.

Take Ayrton's Lotus 98T out after all this and you'll know where they're at (PD) and what's missing in GT6.

Some videos of GTsport show they've begun to put that intake and mechanical growl in as well as the exhaust now (more channels than PS3?), IMO.
Click to expand...

I have read plenty of his posts, we actually talked about audio a few times. I'm a movie fan, and I built my own home theater at home, I really love the whole experience. That's why I enjoyed so much GT5 the first time with my HT. That's why I enjoyed SO SO much the 3D of 5 and 6. But anyway, I was just asking because maybe there could have been some advancements in the area and maybe, just maybe, someone asked Kazunori about it in the Q&A.
 
ZEROTHEKNIGHT
I remember about the engines echo in the background in Redbull X2014 Standard Event which when you focus your ears on the background engines noises in the pre-race menu - you can notice the way it echos around the track as i remember X)
Click to expand...

Sorry for the double post, I'm on my cellphone and I can't add the comments on it.

I remember that too, it was really good, maybe I should check it out again to refresh my memory correctly but AC is amazing even without the 5.1, so, that's why I'm hesitating about PD and GTS. Anyway, we'll have to wait and see (and hear)
 
Eager Snake
I have read plenty of his posts, we actually talked about audio a few times. I'm a movie fan, and I built my own home theater at home, I really love the whole experience. That's why I enjoyed so much GT5 the first time with my HT. That's why I enjoyed SO SO much the 3D of 5 and 6. But anyway, I was just asking because maybe there could have been some advancements in the area and maybe, just maybe, someone asked Kazunori about it in the Q&A.
Click to expand...


This is the Team VVV video currently that shows the progress. I don't believe this is the final sound of GTsport. Also not all cars on all videos I've seen are using AES.

 
scholesy1899
This is the Team VVV video currently that shows the progress. I don't believe this is the final sound of GTsport. Also not all cars on all videos I've seen are using AES.

Click to expand...

The Audi R18 towards the end of the video has been improved, as have some of the other cars in GTS. :D
 
scholesy1899
Read the OP and check the videos therein. Plus any post in this thread or the original (in OP) by @Griffith500 is a must read, even if like me you don't understand half of it.

Take Ayrton's Lotus 98T out after all this and you'll know where they're at (PD) and what's missing in GT6.

Some videos of GTsport show they've begun to put that intake and mechanical growl in as well as the exhaust now (more channels than PS3?), IMO.
Click to expand...

intake sound already existed during Gt2 era.

its just all those just sort of went missing during gt5/gt6 :3 its not a new feature to be bragging about
 
scholesy1899
This is the Team VVV video currently that shows the progress. I don't believe this is the final sound of GTsport. Also not all cars on all videos I've seen are using AES.

Click to expand...



It is promising, but from what I have heard thus far I am still not convinced that the sounds are where they should be or comparable with some of the competitors out there. Also have not seen enough 3rd person views (which is the view I use, yes I am old school) Its all about consistency too, so no good a few cars getting attention while other cars are ignored or not give as much effort. Also still too clean sounding.

I will pass judgement when I see more examples and when of course I am playing the game.
 
freedom1104
intake sound already existed during Gt2 era.

its just all those just sort of went missing during gt5/gt6 :3 its not a new feature to be bragging about
Click to expand...

They continued to use old samples and redo some badly for 5. They've since gone in another direction. The fruits of their labour aren't showing and I'm not sure if what they're going for is what we want. Thunderous distortion!

Who is bragging? Not me, I was simply passing info about AES and the current sounds state (from Copperbox)

Don't think PD are necessarily bragging either, they know they need to improve (and currently not to my expectations either)

This vid is about 2 weeks old, all we know is what was shown at the Copperbox, all this info is a few clicks away!!??
 
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freedom1104
intake sound already existed during Gt2 era.

its just all those just sort of went missing during gt5/gt6 :3 its not a new feature to be bragging about
Click to expand...
I'm not really sure what that statement is supposed to mean, so forgive me if I misunderstand.

GT2 did not have a dedicated intake sound channel in the mix. Some of the samples had audible intake-like qualities to them, but that was more likely by accident due to a systematic error in the recording process - one that PD corrected around the time GT4 was being produced (see Kaz Q&A and Pitstop blog). However, new samples (e.g. those of the Hudson) still, inevitably, have a lot of leakage between the discrete sources. That is no good for PD's physically-based in-engine source mixing; synthetically generated, unnaturally perfectly isolated sources would fare much better...

Now the real question is why those same GT2 "assets" are being used in GT Sport despite the improvements made in the recording process.


The sound in GT Sport, as demonstrated, is simply a continuation of GT6 - some samples were changed, it's possible some are new, and AES has carried over completely and bafflingly unaltered. By contrast, there is no reverb yet, despite improvements made in GT6. Some levels are changed, but they're all over the place, so are clearly not final.

EDIT: the real exciting thing about AES has nothing to do with fidelity and everything to do with range of expression; anyone who's used LFS Tweak will understand (linky).
 
mister dog
Only a hundred cars this time, so no excuses not to update them all this time around.
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That's not the main "no excuse". The main one is the fact that FIA is involved with this game,
and they expect fans to be intrigued by the game itself, and so that the players can actually hear what
the car is doing.
 
citroengt1
That's not the main "no excuse". The main one is the fact that FIA is involved with this game,
and they expect fans to be intrigued by the game itself, and so that the players can actually hear what
the car is doing.
Click to expand...
So far we don't know if the FIA is involved with the overall design direction (and not just the e-sport part), so it might be purely a marketing exercise and nothing more.

Would be quite sad if they need a third party to force them to finally produce decent engine sounds :D
 
Even with the new sound system, and even if they re-recorded all the car's samples, we still have fictional cars which can't be recorded in real life. Looking at the car list with the many fictional Gr3 and VGT cars I bet there will still be a lot of cars that sounds bad.

I think PD is trying too hard to reinvent the wheel here. Just record the cars under load in real life, and play it back as it is. How is it possible that a game made by a small Brazilian company, using a base code from 2005 can sound like this...



...and a game made in 2016 by Sony's premier studio with millions of budget still have trouble sorting out the basics?
 
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wowbaggerBR
Priorities. Or the lack of thereof.
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Exactly. Sometimes I think that Kaz doesn't really care about the game because it just sells like hell.
That being said, the thing about having the FIA involved should be not just an attention call but a sort of obligation for PD to have realistic engine sounds. I mean... Is almost embarrassing to have something like that in a game with the huge budget that Gran Turismo has.
We need to wait and hope for the best, but for the love of God they need to make it right this time around but, sometimes, it just feels like is going to be the same old story.
There are clues, good ones, that a change is being made...
Having hope again?
 
mister dog
Only a hundred cars this time, so no excuses not to update them all this time around.
Click to expand...

100 cars... and pretty much 1 person doing the work? I've always said this is a job for a team of people. People have commented on the great overall sound in DiRT Rally. Well, that's not one person and it's a heck of a lot less than 100 cars. We're starting to hear some really nice improvements now, but you can't expect miracles in such a short time frame. This is a failing of PD's management and their lack of understanding of audio development, not the people doing the job.

citroengt1
That's not the main "no excuse". The main one is the fact that FIA is involved with this game,
and they expect fans to be intrigued by the game itself, and so that the players can actually hear what
the car is doing.
Click to expand...

Having a lot of experience with manufacturers and governing bodies, it doesn't work like that at all. Many of the licenses and therefore 'involvement' is no more than a huge payment to that body who then make your life very difficult in terms of signing off accuracy of visuals. Sound doesn't come in to it. In fact many of the licenses agreed with manufacturers and teams don't include any form of audio commitment at all. I've always argued that it should be within the license agreement that there is access to a vehicle for audio requirements, and it's always been poo-poo'd back to me.

Years ago, on DiRT3 we sent out early development video capture, including audio, of each vehicle to the respective manufacturers for sign off. Every car had a Scooby engine. We had only one manufacturer who came back and said the engine sound for their car was wrong, and then they incorrectly identified what they were hearing anyway... in a big way.
 
LeGeNd-1
Even with the new sound system, and even if they re-recorded all the car's samples, we still have fictional cars which can't be recorded in real life. Looking at the car list with the many fictional Gr3 and VGT cars I bet there will still be a lot of cars that sounds bad.

I think PD is trying too hard to reinvent the wheel here. Just record the cars under load in real life, and play it back as it is. How is it possible that a game made by a small Brazilian company, using a base code from 2005 can sound like this...



...and a game made in 2016 by Sony's premier studio with millions of budget still have trouble sorting out the basics?
Click to expand...


Wow, nice example! Love the feedback on off-throttle. Nice cockpit movement too, very natural looking.

Anyway, I get the feeling PD may not be taking sound as seriously as it should. However, that is only speculation at this point. The final product may be released with only minor tweaks. Or they might turn things around and take us by surprise. All in all, I found it disappointing to see things hardly getting changed after Caveizel's signing with PD.

Good sound or not, the game will sell like crazy like it always has, and that's the reason Kaz keeps getting away with it and makes promises he can't keep...

madfiddler
100 cars... and pretty much 1 person doing the work? I've always said this is a job for a team of people. People have commented on the great overall sound in DiRT Rally. Well, that's not one person and it's a heck of a lot less than 100 cars. We're starting to hear some really nice improvements now, but you can't expect miracles in such a short time frame. This is a failing of PD's management and their lack of understanding of audio development, not the people doing the job.



Having a lot of experience with manufacturers and governing bodies, it doesn't work like that at all. Many of the licenses and therefore 'involvement' is no more than a huge payment to that body who then make your life very difficult in terms of signing off accuracy of visuals. Sound doesn't come in to it. In fact many of the licenses agreed with manufacturers and teams don't include any form of audio commitment at all. I've always argued that it should be within the license agreement that there is access to a vehicle for audio requirements, and it's always been poo-poo'd back to me.

Years ago, on DiRT3 we sent out early development video capture, including audio, of each vehicle to the respective manufacturers for sign off. Every car had a Scooby engine. We had only one manufacturer who came back and said the engine sound for their car was wrong, and then they incorrectly identified what they were hearing anyway... in a big way.
Click to expand...

I know this is going a little off-topic but you guys are maestros when it comes to replicating REAL car audio in a game. I just wanted to go on record again and announce that out aloud!

It is a real privilege to see a Codies audio engineer share insights on the forum. Between you and me, even if PD were to "borrow" some guys from Codies and T10 combined, they might not get it right, because to them it is just not as important as graphics and gameplay.

A sad shame it is, but I'll still happily eat my hat if all turns out okay when GTS comes out. I hope it does. :) The game is making steady improvements in physics; graphics have been top-notch as always... but the sound. Anyhoo, enough said. Time's the best judge.
 
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KZ is too busy driving race cars, making movies, and sexing up motor bosses with notions of VGT concepts to run a focused tight software development studio in an increasingly competitive market.

With the resources PD have there is literally nothing that should stop them from being number 1 n many areas including physics, sound and graphics.

Projects like recreating the moon and it's gravity are superfluous and the final touches to an otherwise finished project...Instead core features are left substandard with far too many resources wasted.
 
LeGeNd-1
You know what is perplexing to me about PD's sounds? They managed to make some good sounds way back in the GT2 era:



Compare this to the Shelby in GT6:

Click to expand...

That's not the original GT2 sound. It's close though.



Not disputing the point you're making though. The sounds are dull and flat compared to how they had been.
 
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